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Which oils to avoid?


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2023 Jan 21, 7:13pm   23,803 views  183 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

I'm increasingly frustrated at the rapeseed oil (euphemistically called "Canola" oil by Canadian producers) and palm kernel oil that seems to be in almost all food. Pretty much everything at Trader Joe's seems to have one or the other. I was even at a Russian shop in Palo Alto today (Samovar, fun place) and found the poppyseed cake my grandmother used to make - except it was with margarine instead of butter, ugh.

Which of them are worth avoiding entirely?

Here are the fats and oils I think are bad:

- margarine (which is just canola and other crap oils hardened to make them stick in your arteries better)
- canola oil
- cottonseed oil (especially bad)
- palm kernel oil

I'm undecided about these:

- soybean oil
- sunflower seed oil
- avocado oil
- coconut oil
- peanut oil

I'm sure these are pretty good for you:

- olive oil
- butter
- lard (yes, I think lard is OK to eat)


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63   BobHa   2023 Feb 6, 11:03pm  

Robert Sproul says

Ceffer says


nobody recommends starches, refined wheat flour products, cereals, fast food chips or certain oils like Canola or margarine.

Tufts University 'Food Compass'




>honey nut cheerios(literally sugar on carbs)
76
>Ground beef(protein and healty fats)
23

Excuse me whaaaaaat
64   Patrick   2023 Feb 9, 8:25pm  

https://joshketry.substack.com/p/seed-oils-are-slowly-poisoning-us


Seed Oils are Slowly Poisoning Us & Our Children.
...and they are in EVERYTHING.


Not sure I agree with it all, but I remain very suspicious of all the new oils, especially rapeseed oil, aka "canola oil".
65   mell   2023 Feb 9, 8:44pm  

Patrick says


https://joshketry.substack.com/p/seed-oils-are-slowly-poisoning-us


Seed Oils are Slowly Poisoning Us & Our Children.
...and they are in EVERYTHING.


Not sure I agree with it all, but I remain very suspicious of all the new oils, especially rapeseed oil, aka "canola oil".


I don't buy most of it. Especially omega 6 is not bad for you, I consider walnuts one of the healtiest foods to eat and they are high in omega 6. To me this is mostly bs. Sure refined oils in high amounts are probably a bad idea. I'm also no fan of soybean and canola oil. But linking then to literally any disease is junk. So is promoting a carnivore only diet. I eat a lot of meat and love it, but there is bs on both sides. A meat only diet is not what I would recommend. To each their own.
66   richwicks   2023 Feb 9, 9:09pm  

mell says


A meat only diet is not what I would recommend. To each their own.


I go by the hypothesis that our ancestors fit their environment in order to survive in it, and we wouldn't exist, if they were killed by their environment. It was a tremendous advantage to have grandparents help raise children 1000 years ago.

For "my people", refined sugar didn't exist, beer did, but not refined alcohol. They got meat, on occasion, but often ate boiled vegetables. They had plenty of access to milk and eggs, but cheese not so much. Spices were a rarity. Salt wasn't too easy to get, but it was around, and they physically worked a lot.

Certain oils just didn't exist. Butter did, but not vegetable oil. Olive oil was a rarity and probably a treat. Lard was around, so was beef fat.

I'm Irish and Polish, I'd rather be dead than exist on their diet though. Polish food is bland, Irish food isn't so bad, but some of it is pretty disgusting for my palette. I'm never going to eat blood pudding. A lot of my ancestor's food, I consider suitable for dogs, but not for me. Guess I've become an elitist twat that my ancestors would want to spit on. That's fine, I respect them anyhow.
67   mell   2023 Feb 9, 9:21pm  

richwicks says


mell says


A meat only diet is not what I would recommend. To each their own.


I go by the hypothesis that our ancestors fit their environment in order to survive in it, and we wouldn't exist, if they were killed by their environment. It was a tremendous advantage to have grandparents help raise children 1000 years ago.

For "my people", refined sugar didn't exist, beer did, but not refined alcohol. They got meat, on occasion, but often ate boiled vegetables. They had plenty of access to milk and eggs, but cheese not so much. Spices were a rarity. Salt wasn't too easy to get, but it was around, and they physically worked a lot.

Certain oils just didn't exist. Butter did, but not vegetable oil. Olive oil was a rarity and probably a treat. Lard was around, so was beef fat.

I'm Irish and Polish, I'd rather be dead than exist on their diet though. Polish f...


I consider a boiled potato with skin, given it's not laced with pesticides (preferably organic origin), a perfectly healthy food (similarly carrots/yams). Superfood so to say. Gentle on the stomach and gives you almost all the nutrients you need, readily and easily to absorb, high in potassium. That's why I think potato chips aren't necessarily bad for you, in moderation. Not as good as the real potato deal though of course.
68   richwicks   2023 Feb 9, 10:31pm  

mell says


I consider a boiled potato with skin, given it's not laced with pesticides (preferably organic origin), a perfectly healthy food (similarly carrots/yams). Superfood so to say. Gentle on the stomach and gives you almost all the nutrients you need, readily and easily to absorb, high in potassium. That's why I think potato chips aren't necessarily bad for you, in moderation. Not as good as the real potato deal though of course.


I do enjoy baked potatoes. I can eat them with just salt and pepper on them, nothing else.

Potato chips though.. Umm, that's deep fried in some shit. When I want that I tend to cut up a potato or two into slices, dump them into water to soak over night, and then fry them in a pan of usually butter or ghee (ghee is just clarified butter - it's easy to buy here) to fry fry them up.

I'm becoming aware of deep fried anything at my age. I'm very aware of the oil. I'll do it sometimes, but rarely. My body tells me its bad for me. I cannot explain it, but eating deep fried anything my brain is saying "noooooooooo!" and really, I can taste all the oil, and it's too much. There a lot of foods I enjoyed as a kid that I now find disgusting now.
69   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 10, 8:28am  

mell says

A meat only diet is not what I would recommend.


There are people who do it, but they eat head-to-toe. If you're going to do vegetarian or carnivore, either way the key is variety.
70   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 10, 8:30am  

mell says

I consider a boiled potato with skin, given it's not laced with pesticides (preferably organic origin), a perfectly healthy food (similarly carrots/yams). Superfood so to say. Gentle on the stomach and gives you almost all the nutrients you need, readily and easily to absorb, high in potassium. That's why I think potato chips aren't necessarily bad for you, in moderation. Not as good as the real potato deal though of course.


The less cooked, the better. High heat is really the issue with chips. With baked, it's the soft starch/glucose increase.
71   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 10, 8:34am  

mell says

Especially omega 6 is not bad for you, I consider walnuts one of the healtiest foods to eat and they are high in omega 6.


It's the way you get it that's the problem. Those oils are made using a process that separates things intended to remain together. With a walnut you get the Omega6 in it's natural intended state. Same way complex sugars(honey, fruits) are great for you, but when they're separated(added sugar), they're not.
72   mell   2023 Feb 19, 9:43am  

NuttBoxer says


Dholliday126 says


I think this is is best. Based on Dr. Gundry(comes off as a quack), but it really cleared up some inflammation issues. Instead of sugar, I use Stevia which takes some time to get used to, but once you do, eating sugar seems weird.


He gets a lot right, but there's a bunch of good food on his Don't Eat list. That's my biggest problem with any of these people. If you become too restrictive, you have to really embrace variety in other places, or you end up malnourished.

A big miss on that graphic, nuts need to be raw, and refrigerated after opening. Otherwise the oils become rancid.

Honey is a complex sugar, one of the best things you can eat, especially for seasonal allergies. Yogurt has naturally occurring pro-biotics, and consumption through food is always better absorbed than through pills. Quinoa is a complete protein, Basmati rice is...


Gundry is very wrong on lectins imo. Lectins slow down digestion and aid weight loss. Many are studied now for their cancer inhibiting properties. Sure if you're sensitive to something, cut it out if you need to. Otherwise you'd miss out on all the good things about eating the whole nuts/fruits/legumes. Agree with Gundry on pistachios likely being the healthiest nut, maybe on par with walnut. That being said, pretty much all nuts are great.
73   rocketjoe79   2023 Feb 19, 9:56am  

I have a rule while traveling:

Don't eat food with a SYSCO Barcode. This would be all your chain restaurants like Olive Garden, BJ's, Red Robin, et al. Fast food only if you're really in a hurry (or craving, I guess.)

Look for one-offs with Yelp or Trip Advisor.
74   mell   2023 Feb 19, 10:04am  

rocketjoe79 says

I have a rule while traveling:

Don't eat food with a SYSCO Barcode. This would be all your chain restaurants like Olive Garden, BJ's, Red Robin, et al. Fast food only if you're really in a hurry (or craving, I guess.)

Look for one-offs with Yelp or Trip Advisor.

I can't be that consequent ;) kudos
75   Patrick   2023 May 16, 10:32pm  

https://barsoom.substack.com/p/depopulocalypse


I find it darkly amusing that our overlords are so dead set on eliminating tobacco, which can slightly reduce birth weight doncha know, while force-feeding the plebs toxic seed oils that are almost certainly a primary reason for the obesity crisis. Seed oils, more often referred to as ‘vegetable’ oils, appear to systematically slow down metabolic function, meaning people who get a large fraction of their calories from these sources are burning less energy than they should be at a baseline level when they’re just sitting there doing nothing. The connection between metabolic slowing and the spike in obesity over recent decades should be obvious – sedentary lifestyles are doubtless a factor, but we aren’t that much physically lazier than we were in, say, the 50s. No one went to the gym back then, yet no one was fat. Odd, no?
76   AmericanKulak   2023 May 16, 11:49pm  

I think McD's used to fry their fries in the grill grease, which is meat fat. Until the 90s, when they switched to vegetable oil.

If you can't make the oil by pressing it, don't use it.
77   Patrick   2023 May 17, 12:00am  

Brave search synopsis:

Canola oil is made by slightly heating and crushing canola seeds at a processing facility. The seeds are then flaked to release the oil. Almost all commercial canola oil is extracted using hexane solvent, which is recovered at the end of processing. The extracted oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation.


Hexane is pretty poisonous. I wonder how much is left in the food.


Exposure to n-hexane can cause neurotoxicity, leading to symptoms such as vertigo, giddiness, and drowsiness. Longer-term exposures can lead to peripheral neuropathy, with symmetrical paraesthesia and weakness, particularly in the lower extremities.


Ah, rapeseed oil (branded Canola) itself is toxic:


Historically, it was restricted as a food oil due to its content of erucic acid, which in laboratory studies was shown to be damaging to the cardiac muscle of laboratory animals in high quantities and which imparts a bitter taste, and glucosinolates, which made it less nutritious in animal feed.[1][2] Rapeseed oil from standard cultivars can contain up to 54% erucic acid.[3]

Canola oil is a food-grade version developed in Canada (hence the name, see below) derived from rapeseed cultivars specifically bred for low erucic acid content. Also known as low erucic acid rapeseed (LEAR) oil, it has been generally recognized as safe by the United States Food and Drug Administration.[4] Canola oil is limited by government regulation to a maximum of 2% erucic acid by weight in the US[4] and the EU,[5] with special regulations for infant food. These low levels of erucic acid do not cause harm in humans.[4][6]


Just keep saying "It's safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective..."
79   komputodo   2023 May 17, 7:36am  

I'm not a scientist like some of you guys. As a matter of fact, i just have a HS edumacation. But i was pondering why is it that fried food is so much crispier than other type of preparations. And I started thinking it was because OILS and Fats are just a vehicle to constantly deliver 370 degree heat to 100% of the foods surface. Water can only deliver 212 degrees at sea level. Air can deliver 370 degree heat but air is a poor delivery vehicle for holding heat so it can drop instantly just by opening the oven door. Which is why air friers work better than ovens because they are a small enclosed area heated by a large heat source.
if there was another type of liquid that could be heated to 370 degrees, it would probably make food crispy also.
Am i fucked up?
80   mell   2023 May 17, 7:44am  

Patrick says

Brave search synopsis:


Canola oil is made by slightly heating and crushing canola seeds at a processing facility. The seeds are then flaked to release the oil. Almost all commercial canola oil is extracted using hexane solvent, which is recovered at the end of processing. The extracted oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation.
(some text omitted to shorten quote...) ntent. Also known as low erucic acid rapeseed (LEAR) oil, it has been generally recognized as safe by the United States Food and Drug Administration.[4] Canola oil is limited by government regulation to a maximum of 2% erucic acid by weight in the US[4] and the EU,[5] with special regulations for infant food. These low levels of erucic acid do not cause harm in humans.[4][6]


Just keep saying "It's safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective..."

They say you ingest more hexane daily via industrial/car fumes etc., but it seems like a no-go to start with if an oil needs this process just to keep longer, why expose yourself.

gabbar says






Have been doing a bit of research and it doesn't seem to be clear cut. I side with cooking with Olive Oil, Avocado Oil, and Coconut oil mostly, but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them. I do think soybean oil should be avoided, as it's usually heavily preprocessed, unstable and easily oxidized (plus not good for men in excess). Linoleic acid is controversial, but research is not conclusive, similar to PUFAs etc.
81   richwicks   2023 May 17, 7:50am  

komputodo says

I'm not a scientist like some of you guys. As a matter of fact, i just have a HS edumacation.


You're probably smarter than all of us for that reason alone.

komputodo says

if there was another type of liquid that could be heated to 370 degrees, it would probably make food crispy also.
Am i fucked up?


I think you're right.

You know what you could do? You could fry a small piece of meat in different oils. Safflower has a smoke point of 510F, and olive oil is only 375F. That was the widest range in temperatures I could find.
82   NuttBoxer   2023 May 17, 8:12am  

mell says



but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them.


If you're ok with eating processed food, why would you care what oil its in?

We now have to avoid most desserts as well, as even organic ones tend to have sunflower lecithin. Maybe that one is ok, haven't looked into it. Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar, but read the ingredients, and they add sunflower oil, to BACON. Almost as if the food industry is trying to trick us into poisoning ourselves...
83   komputodo   2023 May 17, 8:32am  

NuttBoxer says

Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar

have you noticed that there a lots of bacon that isn't even from the belly of the hog? substituting cuts that are more plentiful and cheaper. Kinda like "boneless" chicken wings.
84   mell   2023 May 17, 8:44am  

NuttBoxer says


mell says



but I am not worried about ingesting seed oils via processed food that was cooked/fried with them.


If you're ok with eating processed food, why would you care what oil its in?

We now have to avoid most desserts as well, as even organic ones tend to have sunflower lecithin. Maybe that one is ok, haven't looked into it. Interesting that Costco carries a brand of bacon without sugar, but read the ingredients, and they add sunflower oil, to BACON. Almost as if the food industry is trying to trick us into poisoning ourselves...


Agreed, processed foods by themselves are a less healthy choice than fresh/raw foods, so the oils used are secondary. They use whatever is cheapest, bo deliberate attempt to poison. But there is also a lot of bs peddled on both sides. Palm oil has gotten a really bad rep, but mostly because of sustainability/esg bullshit, but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy. Sunflower/Safflower is not that bad either from my initial research. I think canola and esp. soybean are to avoid, grapeseed oil likely as well. Sesame oil should be good to consume, just imo. Of course you need to keep in mind the use cases, smoke point if you're cooking etc.
85   NuttBoxer   2023 May 17, 9:11am  

I don't know that any of those oils we're avoiding leave us deficient in health in any way, and they might be inflaming our systems, so avoiding them doesn't have any downside. And with the high level of inflammatory disease in this country, for a while, it's gotta be coming from somewhere.

We do occasionally use Sesame and Peanut for Asian flavored dishes. Don't know that I've noticed an ill affects.
86   komputodo   2023 May 17, 9:32am  

mell says

but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.

kinda like cheap grocery store olive oil? if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.
87   mell   2023 May 17, 9:58am  

komputodo says


mell says


but if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.

kinda like cheap grocery store olive oil? if not adulterated it's actually quite healthy.


Probably, at the end of the day you have to trust your sources. But I doubt it's all extremely unhealthy in moderation. Every MD has their own diet to promote $$ and culprits. You can avoid most of those pitfalls if you're worried by avoiding processed foods, and eat mostly raw/cold food in general. I'm not doing this, but I probably eat more cold food than most, may have started out as laziness. But there are people who swear by it, saying it gave them great health into old age, not to prepare meals unless absolutely necessary. Eat raw as long as your stomach is up for it.
88   clambo   2023 May 17, 10:48am  

Avoid hash oil.
89   mell   2023 May 17, 10:49am  

clambo says

Avoid hash oil.

unless you want to get stoned
90   rocketjoe79   2023 May 17, 11:28am  

Also, Nuts are highly recommended in moderation. You're getting a bit of oil, but not enough to worry about.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.

I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.
91   mell   2023 May 17, 11:31am  

rocketjoe79 says

Also, Nuts are highly recommended in moderation. You're getting a bit of oil, but not enough to worry about.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.

I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.

Out of curiosity, what did you/they consider high levels of triglycerides?
92   Blue   2023 May 17, 2:48pm  

rocketjoe79 says

Also, Nuts are highly recommended in moderation. You're getting a bit of oil, but not enough to worry about.
I started getting high triglycerides a few years back, and started taking fish oil pills. They didn't do a thing for me until I saw my flight surgeon. He asked my dose and I said 1000mg per day. He said it's 4k per day! Since then, my tri's have dropped 50%. If I go off, they go back up.

I think this is pretty close to Mom feeding you Cod liver oil back in the day. Little sardines on a cracker (Chicken of the Sea ) are still a favorite of mine.

Check if this helps,
Dr. Pradip Jamnadas: "ONCE A DAY, it is scientifically proven!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Yem2T2r2M&patrick.net=
93   beershrine   2023 May 17, 4:25pm  

Patrick, I use olive oil for almost everything but according to this Davis study 53-94% of the imported brands failed standard testing. Read the study and choose wisely. There is another study on Honey that is eye popping.

https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/media/files/report2011three.pdf
94   Eric Holder   2023 May 17, 5:20pm  

beershrine says

Patrick, I use olive oil for almost everything but according to this Davis study 53-94% of the imported brands failed standard testing.


I used to work with an Italilan guy whose mom was some kind of "olive oil scientist" back in the old country. According to her only extra virgin olive oil is good, the "light" variety is shit because of the processing it undergoes.
95   gabbar   2023 May 18, 3:55am  


Check if this helps,
Dr. Pradip Jamnadas: "ONCE A DAY, it is scientifically proven!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Yem2T2r2M&patrick.net=


Check out the comments on this video, they are gold dust
96   Robert Sproul   2023 May 18, 7:22am  

Seed oils are the new dietary Super Villain. My research indicates that ALL imported olive oil is suspect. Apparently it is difficult to detect and some extraordinarily high percentage is adulterated with unknown agents. I now buy only California olive oils.
Also I have switched to animal fats, lard and tallow, for all high heat applications. Highly recommended:
https://fatworks.com/
Even worse than High Fructose, seed oils seem to be THE main poison in our American Ultra-Processed Food Diet.
30-40 minutes but potentially life changing fat discussions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UnOryQiIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM
97   komputodo   2023 May 18, 7:38am  

richwicks says

HAHA - all the top recommended are junk foods except for kale and watermelon, both of which I hate.

You must be black. The reason I say this is because the only people I've ever heard that claim that they hate watermelon were blacks when speaking to white folk.
98   NuttBoxer   2023 May 18, 8:25am  

Buy local and buy organic. Italy exports 3x the olive oil they produce.
99   mell   2023 May 18, 8:32am  

komputodo says

richwicks says


HAHA - all the top recommended are junk foods except for kale and watermelon, both of which I hate.

You must be black. The reason I say this is because the only people I've ever heard that claim that they hate watermelon were blacks when speaking to white folk.

lol I love watermelon!
100   komputodo   2023 May 18, 1:21pm  

mell says

lol I love watermelon!

me too....Whats not to like?
102   RWSGFY   2023 Jul 27, 10:39am  

Patrick says







Eh, sunflower oil is made by squeezing the seeds - I've seen the whole process. What comes out is dark and fragrant oil, not dissimilar from virgin olive oil in appearance.

So no need for any processing if virgin oil is what you want. But if you want light oil, it will have to go through processing and olive oil is no different here.

PS. This is a good example how memes can be effective ... in distorting the real picture.

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