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Which oils to avoid?


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2023 Jan 21, 7:13pm   4,991 views  100 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (51)   💰tip ($3.07 in tips)   ignore  

I'm increasingly frustrated at the rapeseed oil (euphemistically called "Canola" oil by Canadian producers) and palm kernel oil that seems to be in almost all food. Pretty much everything at Trader Joe's seems to have one or the other. I was even at a Russian shop in Palo Alto today (Samovar, fun place) and found the poppyseed cake my grandmother used to make - except it was with margarine instead of butter, ugh.

Which of them are worth avoiding entirely?

Here are the fats and oils I think are bad:

- margarine (which is just canola and other crap oils hardened to make them stick in your arteries better)
- canola oil
- cottonseed oil (especially bad)
- palm kernel oil

I'm undecided about these:

- soybean oil
- sunflower seed oil
- avocado oil
- coconut oil
- peanut oil

I'm sure these are pretty good for you:

- olive oil
- butter
- lard (yes, I think lard is OK to eat)


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19   Shaman   2023 Jan 22, 8:18am  

Patrick says

richwicks says


petroleum is edible


Where did you hear this?


It’s actually not technically “edible” since that term implies that the body can digest it and gain sustenance from it. Petroleum-based oils are opposite chirality from organic oils. They are like mirror images of those oils, and so the enzymes we have to break down those oils into usable compounds don’t work.
Also the impurities in petroleum are toxic compounds like benzenes which are some of the most carcinogenic compounds we know about.

Don’t eat petroleum or any sort. You can survive eating it in small quantities, but it’s REALLY not good for you!
20   Shaman   2023 Jan 22, 8:21am  

Oh and to weigh in on the OP, I use butter, lard, olive oil, avocado oil, and coconut oil. Of those, supposedly olive and avocado are the “healthiest.” But a healthy person without heart disease should feel comfortable eating any of those without trouble. I avoid canola oil in everything I can, but still get some in certain pre-made foods I occasionally eat, or in restaurant food. Restaurants almost always use the least expensive ingredients, and canola is super cheap, especially now that so many people are waking up to the fact that it is quite harmful to one’s cardiovascular health!
21   mell   2023 Jan 22, 8:25am  

To date I haven't seen any study that suggests oils or fats per se are bad for the arteries. What is bad is resulting inflammation from certain oils (vegetable oils high in omega 6) which then causes oxidized cholesterol and plaque buildup. Also they aren't necessarily good or great for the heart, more like neutral. I also doubt that adulterated vs virgin olive oil has a significant impact on arteries. Sure virgin olive oil is likey overall healthier and tastes better, but the studies around oil have been inconclusive so far, with the exception of promotion of inflammation of many vegetables oils, which seems to be established at this point. The benefit of oils and fats lies more in preventing obesity by reducing appetite. The question is if occasional cooking with small amounts of vegetable oil or consuming processed food made with small amounts of vegetable oil has a significant impact. If you eat enough fresh food every day such as fruits and raw vegetables your intake of vegetable oils should not be that high.
22   komputodo   2023 Jan 22, 8:55am  

mell says

Sure virgin olive oil is likey overall healthier and tastes better,

I prefer a neutral flavored oil for cooking, one with no flavor at all.
23   mell   2023 Jan 22, 9:01am  

komputodo says


mell says


Sure virgin olive oil is likey overall healthier and tastes better,

I prefer a neutral flavored oil for cooking, one with no flavor at all.


Which one for example? Virgin olive oil can be quite flavorful (pugnant for those who don't like it, I like it). Also when it comes to cooking, if you use meat or other food containing fat, you hardly ever have to use oils, you can just use the fat. I guess I'm questioning how somebody can get a lot of harmful oils into their body without ordering Chinese take out or fried foods 24/7. How much oil is left in roasted nuts or chips? Can't be that much.
24   mell   2023 Jan 22, 9:29am  

Also there is recent research that indicates that tricaprin, contained in/derived from mct/coconut oil, can significantly prevent and even reverse heart disease:
https://studyfinds.org/tricaprin-heart-disease/&ved=2ahUKEwjhocL92dv8AhUcJkQIHcdRCt4QtwJ6BAhDEAE&usg=AOvVaw16djorTGlhJTE2UdLXglkA
25   mell   2023 Jan 22, 9:30am  

Also there is recent research that indicates that tricaprin, contained in/derived from mct/coconut oil, can significantly prevent and even reverse heart disease:

https://studyfinds.org/tricaprin-heart-disease/
26   RayAmerica   2023 Jan 22, 9:43am  

komputodo says

RayAmerica says

However, if you are going to use oils, the worst are soy, sunflower, safflower, canola, corn, cottonseed, refined palm, hydrogenated, ricebran & grapeseed. Also stay away from REFINED peanut, coconut & avocado oils.

In other words, never eat out and never buy any prepared ready to eat foods?


Read the labels on prepared, processed foods. That could be an enlightening experience. As far as restaurant foods, they do not have to disclose what the ingredients are. Also, all processed foods, including restaurants foods, typically have one thing in common; they contain a mixture of fat, salt and sugar which allows them to make a 'tasty' product with cheap ingredients. Fast food restaurants are notorious for this.
27   komputodo   2023 Jan 22, 9:44am  

mell says

I guess I'm questioning how somebody can get a lot of harmful oils into their body without ordering Chinese take out or fried foods 24/7. How much oil is left in roasted nuts or chips? Can't be that much.

And the triple triple cheeseburgers... Its always been about moderation...I think a lot of people are worried about heart attacks now. Especially with the "sudden death syndrome" and the clot shot.
28   komputodo   2023 Jan 22, 9:45am  

RayAmerica says

Read the labels on prepared, processed foods. That could be an enlightening experience.

Or better yet, just don't buy that shit
29   mell   2023 Jan 22, 10:03am  

komputodo says

mell says


I guess I'm questioning how somebody can get a lot of harmful oils into their body without ordering Chinese take out or fried foods 24/7. How much oil is left in roasted nuts or chips? Can't be that much.

And the triple triple cheeseburgers... Its always been about moderation...I think a lot of people are worried about heart attacks now. Especially with the "sudden death syndrome" and the clot shot.

Right. Also it depends on the level of physical activity. If you are working a hards ass job or run 5-10 miles per day, maybe paired with hiit or strength work, then carbs vs fats and a lot of other nutritional stuff changes. Why? Simply because if you deplete all the carbs you ingest they can't be unhealthy as they are converted into atp/energy fairly soon after consumption (in fact you need more carbs then). Carbs are not bad per se, excess carbs are.
30   HeadSet   2023 Jan 22, 11:38am  

richwicks says

petroleum is edible.

That is why a true auto mechanic reaches for a quart of the 10W40 rather than the 20 ounce Coke.
31   Patrick   2023 Jan 22, 11:51am  

RayAmerica says

If the FDA 'approves' something, you can bet your bottom dollar that their approval is based upon 'studies' that were paid for by the very industries that they are supposed to be regulating.


I also suspect that the news cycles about "this food is good" and "this food is bad" is just the various industries fighting it out via their PR agencies and their agents within the FDA.

Whatever the corporate news tells you should be assumed to have some large financial interest behind it.

When red wine was good for you, for example, it may have just been paid PR for the wine industry, which has quite a bit of money.
32   mell   2023 Feb 5, 9:20pm  

@Patrick palm kernel oil contains tricaprin, which according to latest studies not only protects, but reverses coronary artery / heart disease! It's not that easy to vilify all vegetable/fruit/seed oils. The science is always changing! In general palm, palm kernel, mct and coconut oils are considered heart healthy now.
33   Patrick   2023 Feb 5, 10:24pm  

I don't know that I trust any studies anymore though. If so many were rigged by pharma, a lot are probably rigged by some other industries too.
34   richwicks   2023 Feb 6, 1:57am  

RayAmerica says

All 'oil' should be used in very limited quantities (including butter, which is very high in fat). It has been proven through non-FDA, corporate corrupted sponsored studies that oil contributes to the formation of plaque in arteries, leading to heart disease, strokes, etc.


My brother knew a woman that totally avoided oil. She died of a heart attack in her early 50's. She was a marathon runner.

Your body tells you what to avoid. Listen to it.
35   RayAmerica   2023 Feb 6, 6:43am  

mell says

Patrick palm kernel oil contains tricaprin, which according to latest studies not only protects, but reverses coronary artery / heart disease! It's not that easy to vilify all vegetable/fruit/seed oils. The science is always changing! In general palm, palm kernel, mct and coconut oils are considered heart healthy now.

Almost every positive 'study' that is produced is financed by corporations. It works in a similar way to the prosecution and the defense calling "experts" in order to testify in a trial. Both experts are hired by the different sides in order to provide the testimony that fits with their side. That's precisely why we keep seeing conflicting reports, all based upon 'independent studies.'

Trust NOTHING by the FDA, which is loaded with political appointments from the corporations.
36   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 6, 7:31am  

Patrick says

I'm undecided about these:

- soybean oil
- sunflower seed oil
- avocado oil
- coconut oil
- peanut oil


Soy sauce as fine as long as it comes from a good source. Like most fermented foods. Sunflower is still a seed oil, avoid. Avocado is one of the best due to the higher cooking temp(doesn't hydrogenate so easily). Coconut has lots of good fat, and taste's great for cooking popcorn, or pancakes. I do use peanut for Asian dishes, only organic.

Olive oil should be extra virgin, and local, or not from Italy unless you know the distributor.
37   Robert Sproul   2023 Feb 6, 7:37am  

EVOO is not a do-it-all oil. If imported it is quite possibly adulterated so I only buy California grown. Olive oil also does not stand up to high heat so is not good for searing etc. I am using tallow and lard and some bacon fat for this purpose which I now think are healthy fats. I am convinced that whatever the Govt. is recommending is likely very dangerous and a safe bet is to do the opposite.
This guy breaks it down pretty good:
"Dr. Chris Knobbe - 'Diseases of Civilization: Are Seed Oil Excesses the Unifying Mechanism?'"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM
38   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 6, 7:41am  

mell says

To date I haven't seen any study that suggests oils or fats per se are bad for the arteries.


It depends on what the oils hydrogenation temperature is. As long as you stay under that, the oil will not get sludgy at room temp. That's why Avocado is one of the best.
39   mell   2023 Feb 6, 8:30am  

NuttBoxer says

mell says


To date I haven't seen any study that suggests oils or fats per se are bad for the arteries.


It depends on what the oils hydrogenation temperature is. As long as you stay under that, the oil will not get sludgy at room temp. That's why Avocado is one of the best.

Agreed that's why you want to avoid partially hydrogenated oils.
40   mell   2023 Feb 6, 8:31am  

RayAmerica says

mell says


Patrick palm kernel oil contains tricaprin, which according to latest studies not only protects, but reverses coronary artery / heart disease! It's not that easy to vilify all vegetable/fruit/seed oils. The science is always changing! In general palm, palm kernel, mct and coconut oils are considered heart healthy now.

Almost every positive 'study' that is produced is financed by corporations. It works in a similar way to the prosecution and the defense calling "experts" in order to testify in a trial. Both experts are hired by the different sides in order to provide the testimony that fits with their side. That's precisely why we keep seeing conflicting reports, all based upon 'independent studies.'

Trust NOTHING by the FDA, which is loaded with political appointments from the corporations.

Sure but this research is not FDA related or corporation sponsored, also medium chain fatty acids have been deemed healthy for quite a long time now.
41   mell   2023 Feb 6, 8:34am  

Patrick says

I don't know that I trust any studies anymore though. If so many were rigged by pharma, a lot are probably rigged by some other industries too.

Medium chain fatty acids, coconut/mct oil has been deemed healthy for quite a long time already. I doubt these studies are tainted. Just pointing out is that it depends on the plant and the degree you heat it to.
42   WookieMan   2023 Feb 6, 8:51am  

mell says


I doubt these studies are tainted.

Maybe not tainted, but I do believe most studies have information bias toward the outcome they're hoping for. What's the point of studying something if you didn't already have an opinion on it? It's likely something you believed to be true and most humans hate being wrong about a theory or idea. Especially when it comes to human health.

Not that there's many left, but I believe I've walked through a diet section at a book store like Barnes and Noble. No one really knows the best diet. We know we need certain things, not in excess but with 7B people on the planet, a lot of them have their finger on the scale of diets and health.

I eat what tastes good, doesn't make me fat (generally) and in lesser quantities as I get older. You go to an Italian place here in IL the portions are obscene. I eat a quarter to half of a dish of any pasta style foods. Bring the leftovers home and reheat or just toss them. People feel bad spending $18-40 on an entree at places and feel required to consume it all. I'll eat the best 4oz steak for $40 versus a 12oz average steak for $40 if that makes sense. Bigger is not better and I just don't feel good consuming tons of food at once. Quality over quantity is my take.
43   Dholliday126   2023 Feb 6, 9:04am  

I think this is is best. Based on Dr. Gundry(comes off as a quack), but it really cleared up some inflammation issues. Instead of sugar, I use Stevia which takes some time to get used to, but once you do, eating sugar seems weird.


44   RayAmerica   2023 Feb 6, 9:21am  

mell says

Sure but this research is not FDA related or corporation sponsored, also medium chain fatty acids have been deemed healthy for quite a long time now.

I was referring to the FDA as a side bar. Corporations donate money to universities, 'research studies,' etc. with the predetermined intent, via their 'contributions,' to influence the 'study' in a way that is pleasing to the donators. You will never see that these corporations are financing these conflict of interest studies.
45   Ceffer   2023 Feb 6, 11:01am  

Problem with the alternative diet recommendations, is the guy recommending will promote and advertise what he sells vs. everything else. The gurus wind up contradicting each other. However, you can probably take recommendations in common more seriously i.e. nobody recommends starches, refined wheat flour products, cereals, fast food chips or certain oils like Canola or margarine. Also, avoid processed foods that contain an abundance of non fructose sugar.

I think the fiends have devised additives that work in combinations mostly through grains, refined starches, cereals, and some oils and vat stirred processed or paste foods to repress hormones. Combination poisons (i.e. different items from different sources add up to an inhibitor or poison) is the way they do things. If you eliminate the item that is required in the toxin chain to join with another, you can defeat the combination metabolic poisons even if you wind up consuming the incomplete parts. They want to go after basal metabolic rate and testosterone in particular. I think they also regard Vit. D and melatonin as their enemies.

I think some of Dr. Gudry's recommendations are good, some are excessively restrictive. He would have to give some very specific reasons for all the choices.
46   Patrick   2023 Feb 6, 11:13am  

Ceffer says

Problem with the alternative diet recommendations, is the guy recommending will promote and advertise what he sells vs. everything else.


I recently heard one good rule for deciding what to eat: if it has to be advertised, you probably shouldn't eat it.

No one has to advertise, say, flour, butter, or eggs. But they do have to advertise fast food, packaged factory food, etc.
47   HeadSet   2023 Feb 6, 11:39am  

Ceffer says

nobody recommends starches, refined wheat flour products, cereals, fast food chips or certain oils like Canola or margarine.

Oh yeah?
https://youtu.be/n3wf717fKFE
48   Robert Sproul   2023 Feb 6, 1:27pm  

Ceffer says

nobody recommends starches, refined wheat flour products, cereals, fast food chips or certain oils like Canola or margarine.

Tufts University 'Food Compass'


49   Patrick   2023 Feb 6, 1:32pm  

Three instances of product placement right there, proving corruption.

Tufts is pwned.
50   komputodo   2023 Feb 6, 1:38pm  

I've been craving me some millet and egg substitute fried in vegetable oil.
51   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 6, 2:08pm  

Dholliday126 says

I think this is is best. Based on Dr. Gundry(comes off as a quack), but it really cleared up some inflammation issues. Instead of sugar, I use Stevia which takes some time to get used to, but once you do, eating sugar seems weird.


He gets a lot right, but there's a bunch of good food on his Don't Eat list. That's my biggest problem with any of these people. If you become too restrictive, you have to really embrace variety in other places, or you end up malnourished.

A big miss on that graphic, nuts need to be raw, and refrigerated after opening. Otherwise the oils become rancid.

Honey is a complex sugar, one of the best things you can eat, especially for seasonal allergies. Yogurt has naturally occurring pro-biotics, and consumption through food is always better absorbed than through pills. Quinoa is a complete protein, Basmati rice is longer chained. Especially with what's coming, you WANT grains on hand. And unless you are a vegetable eating machine, don't say not to any veggies as long as they're organic.
52   stereotomy   2023 Feb 6, 4:19pm  

Robert Sproul says


Ceffer says


nobody recommends starches, refined wheat flour products, cereals, fast food chips or certain oils like Canola or margarine.

Tufts University 'Food Compass'




All you have to do is invert the graph to know what to eat. What a load of seriously deadly bullshit.
53   richwicks   2023 Feb 6, 4:31pm  

Dholliday126 says


I use Stevia which takes some time to get used to, but once you do, eating sugar seems weird.


I used Stevia too.

If you're using Kal brand, they've recently changed their formulation somehow. It used to be "Pure Stevia" now it's "Sure Stevia".

Stevia is kind of cool in that a tiny bottle, lasts me literally more than a year. It's like $50 for a bottle of the powder, but it lasts forever. Stevia is very similar in flavor to saccharine, but it's (supposedly) healthier. I don't make much use of sweeteners, although I do like Chai and lemonade from time to time. Chai is just strongly brewed tea plus cardamon and ginger - you brew it with cracked cardamon pods and a slice or two of ginger root. I make a hell of a lot of it at once.

Stevia does NOT like dissolving in cold liquids, but it will eventually. I make coffee milk - use instant coffee and throw into 1/2 gallon of milk, plus stevia, then shake, and let it dissolve overnight. I made the mistake of drinking two glasses of the stuff today, and I'm wired off my ass.
54   richwicks   2023 Feb 6, 4:34pm  

Robert Sproul says

Ceffer says


nobody recommends starches, refined wheat flour products, cereals, fast food chips or certain oils like Canola or margarine.

Tufts University 'Food Compass'





HAHA - all the top recommended are junk foods except for kale and watermelon, both of which I hate.
55   mell   2023 Feb 6, 4:36pm  

richwicks says


Dholliday126 says


I use Stevia which takes some time to get used to, but once you do, eating sugar seems weird.


I used Stevia too.

If you're using Kal brand, they've recently changed their formulation somehow. It used to be "Pure Stevia" now it's "Sure Stevia".

Stevia is kind of cool in that a tiny bottle, lasts me literally more than a year. It's like $50 for a bottle of the powder, but it lasts forever. Stevia is very similar in flavor to saccharine, but it's (supposedly) healthier. I don't make much use of sweeteners, although I do like Chai and lemonade from time to time. Chai is just strongly brewed tea plus cardamon and ginger - you brew it with cracked cardamon pods and a slice or two of ginger root. I make a hell of a lot of it at once.

Stevia does NOT like dissolving in cold liquids, but it will eventually. I make coffee tea - use instant coffe...


There hasn't been a single non-sugar sweetener (artificial or natural), with the exception of sugar alcohol and monk fruit in moderation, which hasn't felt a bit off in the stomach. I'll stick with real sugar or honey (love honey) 99% of the time. Stevia is not bad though
56   Ceffer   2023 Feb 6, 4:37pm  

Anything from Gov or any related groups and universities will be weighted in proportion to donations and lobbying by industrial food corporations. It is one of the reasons that actual nutrition is hard to figure out, a mass of economic propaganda and purposeful marketing persuasion and disinformation. The alternative food guru types also rely on targeted misinformation to sell shit, making the tower of nutritional Babel even worse.

Also, Pharma wants to keep you chronically ill to keep buying its products, so there's that.
57   richwicks   2023 Feb 6, 4:40pm  

mell says

There hasn't been a single non-sugar sweetener (artificial or natural), with the exception of sugar alcohol and monk fruit in moderation, which hasn't felt a bit off in the stomach. I'll stick with real sugar or honey (love honey) 99% of the time. Stevia is not bad though


I just try to avoid drinking calories and I don't drink much anyhow, unless it's in the form of some sort of beer. Do goddamned love beer. I wish there was a decent beer made, that had the alcohol removed, instead of it just being under-brewed. Seems like they could do it through a vacuum distillation process. There's a few sodas that are decent, THEY are brewed. You can't beat the complexity of a brewed product.
58   mell   2023 Feb 6, 5:50pm  

richwicks says


mell says


There hasn't been a single non-sugar sweetener (artificial or natural), with the exception of sugar alcohol and monk fruit in moderation, which hasn't felt a bit off in the stomach. I'll stick with real sugar or honey (love honey) 99% of the time. Stevia is not bad though


I just try to avoid drinking calories and I don't drink much anyhow, unless it's in the form of some sort of beer. Do goddamned love beer. I wish there was a decent beer made, that had the alcohol removed, instead of it just being under-brewed. Seems like they could do it through a vacuum distillation process. There's a few sodas that are decent, THEY are brewed. You can't beat the complexity of a brewed product.


I drink wine almost every night, 1-2 classes. Wine country makes some of the best wines of the world. I'd rather avoid sodas than wine, beer and the occasional hard liquor/cocktail

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