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housing prices peak 2
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2022 Apr 29, 9:29pm 601,534 views 5,634 comments
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2501
WookieMan
2023 Jun 3, 3:08am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 3, 3:08am
NuttBoxer says
The house I'm living in is the longest I've ever lived in any home. Adult or as a child. It's awesome. I don't know how you can move frequently. I did it and it sucked and wasn't a benefit at all. At minimum you're getting a Uhaul and moving yourself and that is utter misery and still money, gas, dinged up furniture and exhausting. Or you're hiring movers for $$. You have to pack everything up costing you time and potentially income or needing to take vacation or sick days to do it even if you can work remotely. All that has to be factored into the rental cost.
The beauty of owning is that you don't HAVE to sell to move. Become a landlord and rent your old home out. I also have a feeling that's a factor in keeping inventory low as well. With youtube if you watch one real estate guru video you get bombarded with them, so the younger people that buy tend to just keep the property and rent it out and buy something else. My buddy did this for years.
If you owned the rentals you had and moved every 3-4 years, rented them out you could have a solid property collection. Or you could sell 2-3 years after moving out and not pay capital gains while a tenant paid down your principle bit more. Even if a bubble popped you're likely to be up after 6-7 years. Or keep it and get 5-7 houses over your adult life and you've got a nice cash flow machine for retirement as they get paid off.
Basically the mobility point is kind of invalid. It just sounds like you don't like debt. That's fine. I just don't know of any multimillionaires that DIDN'T use debt to get wealthy. Remember this as well, a paid off primary home when you're 60 will be exponentially cheaper than renting during years you'll be thinking of retiring. Unless you have a government job with health benefits after retirement, most people don't realize medical costs/insurance skyrocket. Or you use government health and see how that works out.
Not lecturing and I respect your right to do what you want. Just pointing out that even if you invested all the savings from renting it still won't beat owning. You can invest 100% of the cashflow in my above scenario and you still have the asset in the house or condo.
Our biggest advantage is our mobility, use it, or spend your life working for your house.
The house I'm living in is the longest I've ever lived in any home. Adult or as a child. It's awesome. I don't know how you can move frequently. I did it and it sucked and wasn't a benefit at all. At minimum you're getting a Uhaul and moving yourself and that is utter misery and still money, gas, dinged up furniture and exhausting. Or you're hiring movers for $$. You have to pack everything up costing you time and potentially income or needing to take vacation or sick days to do it even if you can work remotely. All that has to be factored into the rental cost.
The beauty of owning is that you don't HAVE to sell to move. Become a landlord and rent your old home out. I also have a feeling that's a factor in keeping inventory low as well. With youtube if you watch one real estate guru video you get bombarded with them, so the younger people that buy tend to just keep the property and rent it out and buy something else. My buddy did this for years.
If you owned the rentals you had and moved every 3-4 years, rented them out you could have a solid property collection. Or you could sell 2-3 years after moving out and not pay capital gains while a tenant paid down your principle bit more. Even if a bubble popped you're likely to be up after 6-7 years. Or keep it and get 5-7 houses over your adult life and you've got a nice cash flow machine for retirement as they get paid off.
Basically the mobility point is kind of invalid. It just sounds like you don't like debt. That's fine. I just don't know of any multimillionaires that DIDN'T use debt to get wealthy. Remember this as well, a paid off primary home when you're 60 will be exponentially cheaper than renting during years you'll be thinking of retiring. Unless you have a government job with health benefits after retirement, most people don't realize medical costs/insurance skyrocket. Or you use government health and see how that works out.
Not lecturing and I respect your right to do what you want. Just pointing out that even if you invested all the savings from renting it still won't beat owning. You can invest 100% of the cashflow in my above scenario and you still have the asset in the house or condo.
2502
clambo
2023 Jun 3, 6:42am
Off the subject, therefore ignore me at your will.
At my friend's place I was channel surfing and saw a show which sucked me in about seeking a "bargain beach house" on HGV, a strange channel.
I was amazed and a bit apalled at the places and prices; they were a little bit absurd.
One was a young couple from New Jersey relocating to Florida; they were looking around the Fort Meyers area.
They bought a dump for megabucks.
For the reader not familiar, that area of Florida is on the Gulf of Mexico; in the warm months the Gulf is a disgusting soup like the dinosaurs maybe swam in.
The ocean there is gross and watch out for the flesh eating bacteria and random red tides which actually burn your lungs.
The summer weather would be described as the Devil pissing on a hot rock and the steam rising.
Another clueless couple spent megabucks on a beach in Belize in Ambergris Cay.
Never mind it's going to get blown away someday, or that the infrastructure and healthcare in Belize probably suck.
It's all more proof that people like houses and can't resist buying them, it's amazing to see.
The females always hate the kitchen for some reason and another bathroom or fix the old one.
End of rant.
At my friend's place I was channel surfing and saw a show which sucked me in about seeking a "bargain beach house" on HGV, a strange channel.
I was amazed and a bit apalled at the places and prices; they were a little bit absurd.
One was a young couple from New Jersey relocating to Florida; they were looking around the Fort Meyers area.
They bought a dump for megabucks.
For the reader not familiar, that area of Florida is on the Gulf of Mexico; in the warm months the Gulf is a disgusting soup like the dinosaurs maybe swam in.
The ocean there is gross and watch out for the flesh eating bacteria and random red tides which actually burn your lungs.
The summer weather would be described as the Devil pissing on a hot rock and the steam rising.
Another clueless couple spent megabucks on a beach in Belize in Ambergris Cay.
Never mind it's going to get blown away someday, or that the infrastructure and healthcare in Belize probably suck.
It's all more proof that people like houses and can't resist buying them, it's amazing to see.
The females always hate the kitchen for some reason and another bathroom or fix the old one.
End of rant.
2503
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Jun 3, 7:06am
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Jun 3, 7:06am
clambo says
It’s completely staged. It’s bascially promotional videos masquerading as “entertainment.” The sheeple drool and consume.
"bargain beach house" on HGV
It’s completely staged. It’s bascially promotional videos masquerading as “entertainment.” The sheeple drool and consume.
2504
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
2023 Jun 3, 7:31am
Bitcoiner says
1200 sqft, boise, 325,000. no mortgage, just cash buy.
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says
i got me one rental btw. was really inspired by your story. its sfh. so will leave it for kids after i hit the bucket. cashflow is nice, although today bank interest pays similar or better rate. might get 2 more, all the cash i got left now just collecting about 4.8% should be enough for the 2 rentals.
Congrats fortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden!
Do you mind sharing a bit more about it? How much did you put down and in what city did you buy your rental? What’s the Sqft?
Thanks!
1200 sqft, boise, 325,000. no mortgage, just cash buy.
2505
WookieMan
2023 Jun 3, 10:16am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 3, 10:16am
Al_Sharpton_for_President says
It is. We did one for one of our listings for HGTV. It's unpaid and it's for the listing and selling broker to get recognition. Any of the Chicago ones from 2007 to 2017, I personally know them or have met them. The "buyers" that looked at our listing didn't buy ours. It's not just 3 listing either for the format of the show.
It's fun to see other houses in other markets, but it's 1,000% not reality.
clambo says
"bargain beach house" on HGV
It’s completely staged. It’s bascially promotional videos masquerading as “entertainment.” The sheeple drool and consume.
It is. We did one for one of our listings for HGTV. It's unpaid and it's for the listing and selling broker to get recognition. Any of the Chicago ones from 2007 to 2017, I personally know them or have met them. The "buyers" that looked at our listing didn't buy ours. It's not just 3 listing either for the format of the show.
It's fun to see other houses in other markets, but it's 1,000% not reality.
2506
REpro
2023 Jun 3, 11:38am
REpro
2023 Jun 3, 11:38am
Bitcoiner says
A New Business of delivering potable water to residents with underground water tanks is worry some.
That’s a bit of Sensationalizing. AZ paused new approvals on subdivision developments in suburban areas like Buckeye, west Maricopa county and high growth areas like queen creek. Those areas rely on groundwater usage and it’s projected there will be a 4% shortfall over the next 100 years. Subdivisions already approved for new developments are not affected. Also not affected by this new law are the city of phoenix itself and more than a dozen of the largest cities in the metropolitan area because they already have the certification of a 100 year water supply.
A New Business of delivering potable water to residents with underground water tanks is worry some.
2507
Booger
2023 Jun 3, 11:42am
Booger
2023 Jun 3, 11:42am
Al_Sharpton_for_President says
I watched that show, but always considered it to be for entertainment value.
clambo says
"bargain beach house" on HGV
It’s completely staged. It’s bascially promotional videos masquerading as “entertainment.” The sheeple drool and consume.
I watched that show, but always considered it to be for entertainment value.
2508
Booger
2023 Jun 3, 11:43am
Booger
2023 Jun 3, 11:43am
Bitcoiner says
Current trends suggest someplace outside of California..
71% of owners in CA have a locked in 30y rate of below 4%. Where am I going to live if I sell my house?
Current trends suggest someplace outside of California..
2509
GNL
2023 Jun 3, 12:24pm
GNL
2023 Jun 3, 12:24pm
Bitcoiner says
Yes, I would assume this is true but, image selling in 08 and buying back into the market in 2010/2011. Also, ask Wookie (I think he will agree), the best position when buying, imo, is when you do not currently own or need to sell.
And people don’t sell their house to rent and time the market to buy back in.
Yes, I would assume this is true but, image selling in 08 and buying back into the market in 2010/2011. Also, ask Wookie (I think he will agree), the best position when buying, imo, is when you do not currently own or need to sell.
2510
Eman
2023 Jun 3, 1:21pm
Eman
2023 Jun 3, 1:21pm
During the GFC, the distressed sales were due to buyers who bought with NINJA loans. It'll be interesting to see where the distressed inventory comes from in the next downturn.
2511
WookieMan
2023 Jun 3, 1:45pm
WookieMan
2023 Jun 3, 1:45pm
GNL says
That's the problem with renting. It's actually worse than owning mobility wise now that you brought it up. Best rates renting wise are 12 months or longer. Life happens. You can keep the house if you own and sell later and move NOW. You can't do that unless you have a mo/mo lease. Owning is probably more flexible the more and more I think about it. Just never have had to articulate it because I never think about renting.
I know I'll do snow bird rentals in retirement years. Maybe own and see what I can get for rent in the off season in the Caribbean (hurricane season). It's simply illogical to be renting in retirement years. At minimum my goal by 45 is to own my primary and a retirement/vacation condo on St. John or St. Thomas. Once we get the house done here in IL I give no fucks about credit. I'll own in the Caribbean. If I lose it, who gives a shit. My bank? Fuck them. If it works out, vacationers pay it off and at 60 I do winter in USVI and Summer by family in IL. We'll have a 4/4 here in IL and was thinking 2/2 down there.
Beauty of USVI is we don't compete with CA people. NY people go to FL. FL people go to the Bahamas. It's expensive, but you can still get a reasonably priced condo for the location. I wouldn't need 3 beds, but this for example: https://www.usvirealestate.com/search/homes-for-sale/613-&-614-nazareth-rh-st-thomas-00802-23-789-75109/ When available a 2/2 is $500k I believe. On the beach and minutes to Red Hook to get over to St. John.
And yes, USVI is rough around the edges being an island. Or Puerto Rico. This is easy to rent for $2k/wk. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Calle-Higuero_Rio-Grande_PR_00745_M97917-10954 More affordable. Not as sexy, but there are decent beaches nearby. Tax incentives if you're still working. Water storage and back up electric are a must. But it's still an amazing country/territory (maybe state eventually) with all it's flaws.
Also, ask Wookie (I think he will agree), the best position when buying, imo, is when you do not currently own or need to sell.
That's the problem with renting. It's actually worse than owning mobility wise now that you brought it up. Best rates renting wise are 12 months or longer. Life happens. You can keep the house if you own and sell later and move NOW. You can't do that unless you have a mo/mo lease. Owning is probably more flexible the more and more I think about it. Just never have had to articulate it because I never think about renting.
I know I'll do snow bird rentals in retirement years. Maybe own and see what I can get for rent in the off season in the Caribbean (hurricane season). It's simply illogical to be renting in retirement years. At minimum my goal by 45 is to own my primary and a retirement/vacation condo on St. John or St. Thomas. Once we get the house done here in IL I give no fucks about credit. I'll own in the Caribbean. If I lose it, who gives a shit. My bank? Fuck them. If it works out, vacationers pay it off and at 60 I do winter in USVI and Summer by family in IL. We'll have a 4/4 here in IL and was thinking 2/2 down there.
Beauty of USVI is we don't compete with CA people. NY people go to FL. FL people go to the Bahamas. It's expensive, but you can still get a reasonably priced condo for the location. I wouldn't need 3 beds, but this for example: https://www.usvirealestate.com/search/homes-for-sale/613-&-614-nazareth-rh-st-thomas-00802-23-789-75109/ When available a 2/2 is $500k I believe. On the beach and minutes to Red Hook to get over to St. John.
And yes, USVI is rough around the edges being an island. Or Puerto Rico. This is easy to rent for $2k/wk. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Calle-Higuero_Rio-Grande_PR_00745_M97917-10954 More affordable. Not as sexy, but there are decent beaches nearby. Tax incentives if you're still working. Water storage and back up electric are a must. But it's still an amazing country/territory (maybe state eventually) with all it's flaws.
2512
AmericanKulak
2023 Jun 3, 1:49pm
AmericanKulak
2023 Jun 3, 1:49pm
Bitcoiner says
Brevard county. The Condo isn't $320, it's a brand new SFH for $380k, builder pays closing costs.
Brand new condo 2b/2b for 320k sounds cheap to Californians…..Which city is that?
Brevard county. The Condo isn't $320, it's a brand new SFH for $380k, builder pays closing costs.
2513
Eman
2023 Jun 3, 3:00pm
Eman
2023 Jun 3, 3:00pm
socal2 says
@socal2,
The flipper took the risk and got awarded. Buyers likely thought it was the start of a downturn, which was reasonable, stayed on the sidelines, only to see inventory gradually dwindled and the housing market recovered. Simply crazy with high price real estate and high mortgage interest if we think about it.
This small house sold for $1.7MM in my neighborhood a few months ago. Crazy - even for Carlsbad IMO.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6432-Cayenne-Ln-Carlsbad-CA-92009/16657407_zpid/
I know the original owner (old widower who has lots of lady friends) who sold for $1MM. I was surprised when flippers bought it last July and spent half a year upgrading it. I figured they were going to lose their shirt in this market but they got over asking!
@socal2,
The flipper took the risk and got awarded. Buyers likely thought it was the start of a downturn, which was reasonable, stayed on the sidelines, only to see inventory gradually dwindled and the housing market recovered. Simply crazy with high price real estate and high mortgage interest if we think about it.
2515
GNL
2023 Jun 5, 6:10am
GNL
2023 Jun 5, 6:10am
Homes in northern Virginia sell fast. So fast that more and more agents don't even bother with photography.
2516
stereotomy
2023 Jun 5, 6:51am
stereotomy
2023 Jun 5, 6:51am
Bitcoiner says
Never say never, at least within a 60-year time frame, enough for those who learned the bitter speculation lesson to retire/die off so a new generation of politicians and financial grifters can re-invent the scam. Case in point - the reforms issuing from the Pecora Commission in the 1930's that did away with many of the financial scams contributing to the great depression (incidental, but not causal - that was the Fed first having banks call in margin loans and then decreasing the money supply by 30% between 1929 and 1933 - see The Money Masters) were undone in the early naughties by Greenspan and gang. Brooksley Born, who identified derivatives (CDO's CDO^2) as a ticking time bomb akin to bucket shops common in the 1920's was ridden out of town on a rail. A few years later - voila, meltdown.
Santayana said it most eloquently - those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. "The Big Short" should be mandatory viewing for all young adults, especially because it has a pre-wall Margot Robie naked in a bubble bath.
People also need to understand that what happened in the 2000’s is not going to repeat. No NINJA loans, no stated income, no arm loans, no foreclosure tsunami etc. there is a reason why you had 4M active listings right before 08.
Never say never, at least within a 60-year time frame, enough for those who learned the bitter speculation lesson to retire/die off so a new generation of politicians and financial grifters can re-invent the scam. Case in point - the reforms issuing from the Pecora Commission in the 1930's that did away with many of the financial scams contributing to the great depression (incidental, but not causal - that was the Fed first having banks call in margin loans and then decreasing the money supply by 30% between 1929 and 1933 - see The Money Masters) were undone in the early naughties by Greenspan and gang. Brooksley Born, who identified derivatives (CDO's CDO^2) as a ticking time bomb akin to bucket shops common in the 1920's was ridden out of town on a rail. A few years later - voila, meltdown.
Santayana said it most eloquently - those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. "The Big Short" should be mandatory viewing for all young adults, especially because it has a pre-wall Margot Robie naked in a bubble bath.
2517
zzyzzx
2023 Jun 5, 6:59am
zzyzzx
2023 Jun 5, 6:59am
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/13zem7a/house_closes_on_629_my_job_is_rescinding_my/
House closes on 6/29. My job is rescinding my remote work agreement. Am I legally obligated to continue with the sale of my house?
House closes on 6/29. My job is rescinding my remote work agreement. Am I legally obligated to continue with the sale of my house?
2518
GNL
2023 Jun 5, 8:13am
GNL
2023 Jun 5, 8:13am
zzyzzx says
What is the purpose of this story?
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/13zem7a/house_closes_on_629_my_job_is_rescinding_my/
House closes on 6/29. My job is rescinding my remote work agreement. Am I legally obligated to continue with the sale of my house?
What is the purpose of this story?
2519
WookieMan
2023 Jun 5, 8:16am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 5, 8:16am
zzyzzx says
Didn't read everything. Contracts can be broken. This sounds like a seller that didn't have his house in order. I've been at closings that went to shit sitting there. Guess what, you can get out of any contract there just might be fees. I've been at closings where there's verbal altercations between all the parties. Pleasant.
Guy sounds like a dip shit because he didn't ask his employer about WFH over the long term and that he was selling his house. Other thing is don't move if you're not willing to lose your job if it's too far away. Always have back up employment at the new location if it's out of state. If he was an asset to the company they would have made it work. He clearly wasn't. So again, dip shit.
House closes on 6/29. My job is rescinding my remote work agreement. Am I legally obligated to continue with the sale of my house?
Didn't read everything. Contracts can be broken. This sounds like a seller that didn't have his house in order. I've been at closings that went to shit sitting there. Guess what, you can get out of any contract there just might be fees. I've been at closings where there's verbal altercations between all the parties. Pleasant.
Guy sounds like a dip shit because he didn't ask his employer about WFH over the long term and that he was selling his house. Other thing is don't move if you're not willing to lose your job if it's too far away. Always have back up employment at the new location if it's out of state. If he was an asset to the company they would have made it work. He clearly wasn't. So again, dip shit.
2521
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Jun 5, 2:25pm
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Jun 5, 2:25pm
Bitcoiner says
A bit of an exaggeration. Been there many times, and while there are many nice gated communities, there are also unremarkable houses as well.
Scottsdale is the Beverly Hills of Az.
A bit of an exaggeration. Been there many times, and while there are many nice gated communities, there are also unremarkable houses as well.
2522
Eric Holder
2023 Jun 5, 3:55pm
Eric Holder
2023 Jun 5, 3:55pm
WookieMan says
I'm witnessing an employer flat-out rescinding on the promise of "WFH forever if you want it" as we speak, while also closing offices in several locations. Anybody who asked back then got the above quoted answer which sounded pretty long-term.
Guy sounds like a dip shit because he didn't ask his employer about WFH over the long term and that he was selling his house.
I'm witnessing an employer flat-out rescinding on the promise of "WFH forever if you want it" as we speak, while also closing offices in several locations. Anybody who asked back then got the above quoted answer which sounded pretty long-term.
2523
WookieMan
2023 Jun 5, 7:01pm
WookieMan
2023 Jun 5, 7:01pm
Al_Sharpton_for_President says
Scottsdale is a conundrum in the Phoenix regional area. I actually think Bitcoiner is right on this though. It's a large area, so of course there will be cheaper houses within municipal boundaries. There is no ghetto or nasty area though.
You're not getting in under $500k in Scottsdale for a 3/3. Gain access to the gated communities. Desert Mountain. You aren't coming out without a million dollar loan or cash out of pocket. I don't even know what HOA dues are either. My uncles home is probably $17M if he sold today. He owns two of my cousins houses in Phoenix.
Beverly Hills is kind of a valid comparison. No there aren't 9 figure houses, but it's flipping expensive as hell to get in. 7-8 figures in the best spots.
A bit of an exaggeration. Been there many times, and while there are many nice gated communities
Scottsdale is a conundrum in the Phoenix regional area. I actually think Bitcoiner is right on this though. It's a large area, so of course there will be cheaper houses within municipal boundaries. There is no ghetto or nasty area though.
You're not getting in under $500k in Scottsdale for a 3/3. Gain access to the gated communities. Desert Mountain. You aren't coming out without a million dollar loan or cash out of pocket. I don't even know what HOA dues are either. My uncles home is probably $17M if he sold today. He owns two of my cousins houses in Phoenix.
Beverly Hills is kind of a valid comparison. No there aren't 9 figure houses, but it's flipping expensive as hell to get in. 7-8 figures in the best spots.
2524
gabbar
2023 Jun 6, 7:03am
gabbar
2023 Jun 6, 7:03am
WookieMan says
Please explain this further.
Guess what, you can get out of any contract there just might be fees.
Please explain this further.
2525
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Jun 6, 7:28am
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Jun 6, 7:28am
Scottsdale, AZ Zillow search.
Up to $500,000 - 2 homes
$500,000 - $600,000 - 6 homes
$600,000 - $700,000 - 32 homes
4 bed, 2 bath, 2,331 sq. ft. $539,000: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16638-E-Creosote-Dr-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/59264407_zpid/
Up to $500,000 - 2 homes
$500,000 - $600,000 - 6 homes
$600,000 - $700,000 - 32 homes
4 bed, 2 bath, 2,331 sq. ft. $539,000: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16638-E-Creosote-Dr-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/59264407_zpid/
2526
WookieMan
2023 Jun 6, 8:03am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 6, 8:03am
gabbar says
Could be no fees or you might get sued. I've seen it happen a dozen of times at closing a buyer is all a sudden like "I want x, y, z." You just walk away. That wasn't agreed to, it's not in the contract. There are so many scenarios.
Remember that Realtor contracts are written by attorneys. They want work. A new series of contract paperwork came out for CAR (Chicago Association of Realtors). It's been 6 years, but it was something like "if permits were not pulled the seller is held liable for work performed...." blah blah. These are 10-12 page contracts with 8 point font. Sooooooo much shit can be thrown in there. We'd cross that line out and initial before sending back to the buyer. Protects the seller if a previous own did shit. The attorneys WANT problems so they get more money.
The way it was phrased was ALL previous owners. So if someone before you did some hack job wiring, it's now on you. No proof, but I'm pretty sure I was the first one to catch it when it came out. The attorneys all knew it. They knew brokers were lazy and can barely do basic math. Let alone understand a contract beside the blanks they "let" you fill in that they get paid to review. 90% of our contracts we crossed out tons of shit on the standard contract. It honestly was a pain in the ass. Had to make sure both parties initial any and all changes. Attorneys didn't like us.
Disclosures are the worst enemy for a seller. There's nothing stopping a seller from cancelling because their mom got cancer and they need to stay put and help her live. Return the earnest money. They "might" sue, but they're not going to get much if anything. There has to be a reason, but RE contracts are broken all the time. Disclosures are what you'll get sued for. Not breaking the contract. We only almost got sued once and that was because my moron boss advising the client to lie about water issues. House flooded the first week, they talked to the neighbor and they said it always flooded and so does there. Settled out of court for $15k and seller paid $15k to have a proper sump and french drain system installed.
That should be your biggest concern. Be upfront. Like I mention with the permit terms. If a guy from the 90's did un-permitted work on the house, why is that my problem. Scratch it out and explain why. You just don't know on any 30-150 year old house. I do think they updated the contract after that.
WookieMan says
Guess what, you can get out of any contract there just might be fees.
Please explain this further.
Could be no fees or you might get sued. I've seen it happen a dozen of times at closing a buyer is all a sudden like "I want x, y, z." You just walk away. That wasn't agreed to, it's not in the contract. There are so many scenarios.
Remember that Realtor contracts are written by attorneys. They want work. A new series of contract paperwork came out for CAR (Chicago Association of Realtors). It's been 6 years, but it was something like "if permits were not pulled the seller is held liable for work performed...." blah blah. These are 10-12 page contracts with 8 point font. Sooooooo much shit can be thrown in there. We'd cross that line out and initial before sending back to the buyer. Protects the seller if a previous own did shit. The attorneys WANT problems so they get more money.
The way it was phrased was ALL previous owners. So if someone before you did some hack job wiring, it's now on you. No proof, but I'm pretty sure I was the first one to catch it when it came out. The attorneys all knew it. They knew brokers were lazy and can barely do basic math. Let alone understand a contract beside the blanks they "let" you fill in that they get paid to review. 90% of our contracts we crossed out tons of shit on the standard contract. It honestly was a pain in the ass. Had to make sure both parties initial any and all changes. Attorneys didn't like us.
Disclosures are the worst enemy for a seller. There's nothing stopping a seller from cancelling because their mom got cancer and they need to stay put and help her live. Return the earnest money. They "might" sue, but they're not going to get much if anything. There has to be a reason, but RE contracts are broken all the time. Disclosures are what you'll get sued for. Not breaking the contract. We only almost got sued once and that was because my moron boss advising the client to lie about water issues. House flooded the first week, they talked to the neighbor and they said it always flooded and so does there. Settled out of court for $15k and seller paid $15k to have a proper sump and french drain system installed.
That should be your biggest concern. Be upfront. Like I mention with the permit terms. If a guy from the 90's did un-permitted work on the house, why is that my problem. Scratch it out and explain why. You just don't know on any 30-150 year old house. I do think they updated the contract after that.
2527
WookieMan
2023 Jun 6, 8:44am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 6, 8:44am
Al_Sharpton_for_President says
TL:DR - You found the ghetto of Scottsdale which isn't an actual ghetto and it's $500k plus generally.
That's not cheap in flyover country, hell most the country. Scottsdale is expensive as balls. You're searching a section I haven't been to, but Scottsdale is rather large. Go look in Desert Mountain just north of your link. That's the Scottsdale I know. My uncles neighbor is an extremely successful Hollywood person that has a popular franchise that did very well. Their house is shittier.
Here's a house down the road from my uncles place: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11301-E-Honey-Mesquite-Dr-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/94638060_zpid/
My uncles house beats the living shit out of that one. Maybe it won't sell. But when Bitcoiner says it's the Beverly Hills of AZ I tend to agree. Most his neighbors are prominent people.
I'll probably do a golf trip out there again in January '24. I'll see if I can head over there with the guys, snap some photos. He's super religious though and some of my buddies will rub him the wrong way (weed/drinking). So it's a hit or miss that it happens. I haven't seen him since my dad died in 2019 and I've been to Phoenix area a few times. He's hitting 70 now and had prostate cancer, but is doing well. 2 of my cousins live out there as well that I haven't seen in a decade. I'm not the best family person. Just focused on my own house. Oxygen mask.
Scottsdale, AZ Zillow search.
Up to $500,000 - 2 homes
$500,000 - $600,000 - 6 homes
$600,000 - $700,000 - 32 homes
4 bed, 2 bath, 2,331 sq. ft. $539,000: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16638-E-Creosote-Dr-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/59264407_zpid/
TL:DR - You found the ghetto of Scottsdale which isn't an actual ghetto and it's $500k plus generally.
That's not cheap in flyover country, hell most the country. Scottsdale is expensive as balls. You're searching a section I haven't been to, but Scottsdale is rather large. Go look in Desert Mountain just north of your link. That's the Scottsdale I know. My uncles neighbor is an extremely successful Hollywood person that has a popular franchise that did very well. Their house is shittier.
Here's a house down the road from my uncles place: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11301-E-Honey-Mesquite-Dr-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/94638060_zpid/
My uncles house beats the living shit out of that one. Maybe it won't sell. But when Bitcoiner says it's the Beverly Hills of AZ I tend to agree. Most his neighbors are prominent people.
I'll probably do a golf trip out there again in January '24. I'll see if I can head over there with the guys, snap some photos. He's super religious though and some of my buddies will rub him the wrong way (weed/drinking). So it's a hit or miss that it happens. I haven't seen him since my dad died in 2019 and I've been to Phoenix area a few times. He's hitting 70 now and had prostate cancer, but is doing well. 2 of my cousins live out there as well that I haven't seen in a decade. I'm not the best family person. Just focused on my own house. Oxygen mask.
2529
Patrick
2023 Jun 6, 2:16pm
Patrick
2023 Jun 6, 2:16pm
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12162843/Potential-time-bomb-economy-looms-1-5-trillion-real-estate-mortgages-come-due.html
Potential 'time bomb' for US economy looms as $1.5 trillion in real-estate mortgages will come due within the next two years
Some $1.5 trillion in mortgages will come due in the next two years - paving the way for a financial crisis as higher interest rates push down property values
As this event looms, big banks such as Wells Fargo are cutting their losses by preparing to offload debts at a discount even when borrowers are up to date
The phenomenon has been further compounded by office vacancies, as a sizable amount of Americans continue to work from home even after the pandemic
2530
B.A.C.A.H.
2023 Jun 6, 3:10pm
B.A.C.A.H.
2023 Jun 6, 3:10pm
Patrick says
Thank you for sharing, Patrick.
WF emailed me a notice about changes in their agreement this week, to go into effect in July. Buried way down in the bottom of many pages of legaleze was a summary of the newly imposed withdrawal limits (of the depositors' own money! )
For retail customers, a limit of $50k per withdrawal. For business customers, the limit is $10K.
Looks like they want some stops in place to prevent a First Republic kind of large-depositor stampede.
As this event looms, big banks such as Wells Fargo are cutting their losses by preparing to offload debts at a discount even when borrowers are up to date
Thank you for sharing, Patrick.
WF emailed me a notice about changes in their agreement this week, to go into effect in July. Buried way down in the bottom of many pages of legaleze was a summary of the newly imposed withdrawal limits (of the depositors' own money! )
For retail customers, a limit of $50k per withdrawal. For business customers, the limit is $10K.
Looks like they want some stops in place to prevent a First Republic kind of large-depositor stampede.
2531
gabbar
2023 Jun 6, 3:17pm
gabbar
2023 Jun 6, 3:17pm
WookieMan says
Thank you, are these contractors deliberately written to give the upper hand to brokers, real estate agents and banks?
Remember that Realtor contracts are written by attorneys. They want work. A new series of contract paperwork came out for CAR (Chicago Association of Realtors). It's been 6 years, but it was something like "if permits were not pulled the seller is held liable for work performed...." blah blah. These are 10-12 page contracts with 8 point font. Sooooooo much shit can be thrown in there. We'd cross that line out and initial before sending back to the buyer. Protects the seller if a previous own did shit. The attorneys WANT problems so they get more money.
Thank you, are these contractors deliberately written to give the upper hand to brokers, real estate agents and banks?
2532
HeadSet
2023 Jun 6, 7:09pm
HeadSet
2023 Jun 6, 7:09pm
WookieMan says
Yes, like loss of earnest money, which around here is 1% of the asking price. On a $500k home, you just lost $5,000.
Guess what, you can get out of any contract there just might be fees.
Yes, like loss of earnest money, which around here is 1% of the asking price. On a $500k home, you just lost $5,000.
2533
ForcedTQ
2023 Jun 6, 10:18pm
B.A.C.A.H. says
Seriously, why does anyone still do business with WF, BofA, Chase, US Bank, or any of the other big banks?
Regional Credit Unions are where it’s at.
Patrick says
As this event looms, big banks such as Wells Fargo are cutting their losses by preparing to offload debts at a discount even when borrowers are up to date
Thank you for sharing, Patrick.
WF emailed me a notice about changes in their agreement this week, to go into effect in July. Buried way down in the bottom of many pages of legaleze was a summary of the newly imposed withdrawal limits (of the depositors' own money! )
For retail customers, a limit of $50k per withdrawal. For business customers, the limit is $10K.
Looks like they want some stops in place to prevent a First Republic kind of large-depositor stampede.
Seriously, why does anyone still do business with WF, BofA, Chase, US Bank, or any of the other big banks?
Regional Credit Unions are where it’s at.
2535
zzyzzx
2023 Jun 7, 5:33am
zzyzzx
2023 Jun 7, 5:33am
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/142zj3h/how_much_of_my_130k_earnest_money_will_i/
How much of my $130k earnest money will I potentially lose if I decide to pull out of a home purchase deal in New Jersey?
How much of my $130k earnest money will I potentially lose if I decide to pull out of a home purchase deal in New Jersey?
2536
zzyzzx
2023 Jun 7, 5:43am
zzyzzx
2023 Jun 7, 5:43am
https://www.reddit.com/r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer/comments/142ifbp/massive_tax_increase/
I noticed our escrow payment nearly doubled from $750 to ~1500 and the bank says it’s because our taxes jumped from ~6,500 to 10,000. Am I just screwed or is there someone to contact for a clear answer on why they jumped?
I noticed our escrow payment nearly doubled from $750 to ~1500 and the bank says it’s because our taxes jumped from ~6,500 to 10,000. Am I just screwed or is there someone to contact for a clear answer on why they jumped?
2537
HeadSet
2023 Jun 7, 7:21am
HeadSet
2023 Jun 7, 7:21am
zzyzzx says
$130k in earnest money? Earnest money is typically 1% of the asking price. He is buying a home worth $13 million?
How much of my $130k earnest money will I potentially lose
$130k in earnest money? Earnest money is typically 1% of the asking price. He is buying a home worth $13 million?
2538
WookieMan
2023 Jun 7, 7:45am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 7, 7:45am
HeadSet says
Outside of commercial RE, NO ONE is putting down $130k outside of those that can afford to lose it. Unless it was a multiple bid property and the buyer wanted it I think $25k was the highest I saw for earnest money.
There are many other ways to not lose it either. Any contract, if you're financing, has a line for what your mortgage interest rate you need. Say rates are 5%, You put 3.5%. Seller, agent and attorneys will miss it 9 out of 10 times. Rate comes back at 3.6% and you can walk and get the earnest money back. You can get out. Inspection. Appraisal. It's extremely rare to lose a earnest/escrow deposit in residential.
It's like debt. Everyone is afraid of it. What if I lose my earnest money. I never saw it happen once in over 1k transactions. I did see a lot of renters lose their security deposit though. Nothing shady on our end. They trashed the place or got evicted.
zzyzzx says
How much of my $130k earnest money will I potentially lose
$130k in earnest money? Earnest money is typically 1% of the asking price. He is buying a home worth $13 million?
Outside of commercial RE, NO ONE is putting down $130k outside of those that can afford to lose it. Unless it was a multiple bid property and the buyer wanted it I think $25k was the highest I saw for earnest money.
There are many other ways to not lose it either. Any contract, if you're financing, has a line for what your mortgage interest rate you need. Say rates are 5%, You put 3.5%. Seller, agent and attorneys will miss it 9 out of 10 times. Rate comes back at 3.6% and you can walk and get the earnest money back. You can get out. Inspection. Appraisal. It's extremely rare to lose a earnest/escrow deposit in residential.
It's like debt. Everyone is afraid of it. What if I lose my earnest money. I never saw it happen once in over 1k transactions. I did see a lot of renters lose their security deposit though. Nothing shady on our end. They trashed the place or got evicted.
2539
WookieMan
2023 Jun 7, 7:56am
WookieMan
2023 Jun 7, 7:56am
zzyzzx says
I don't know if there's good stuff on Reddit, but that's pure bull shit. Flat out. $292/mo. They'd "maybe to $350/mo to get a loan from you. I didn't read the link, but the dip shit probably bought and didn't realize the taxes would get reassessed. Stop going to Starbucks or other frivolous shit if you can't afford it.
Bitcoiner says
Property taxes can go up in areas outside CA that high, but it's usually permitted construction work on your house. School referendums are the biggie for tax hikes generally which I believe can still happen outside of Prop 13 in CA, but I don't actually know. I've never read it, but I thought it was just limited to annual increases for non-school spending. If I'm wrong I'd never send my kid to a school in CA if I lived there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer/comments/142ifbp/massive_tax_increase/
I noticed our escrow payment nearly doubled from $750 to ~1500 and the bank says it’s because our taxes jumped from ~6,500 to 10,000. Am I just screwed or is there someone to contact for a clear answer on why they jumped?
I don't know if there's good stuff on Reddit, but that's pure bull shit. Flat out. $292/mo. They'd "maybe to $350/mo to get a loan from you. I didn't read the link, but the dip shit probably bought and didn't realize the taxes would get reassessed. Stop going to Starbucks or other frivolous shit if you can't afford it.
Bitcoiner says
zzyzzx says
Not worth addressing each troll post but I bite on this one: for CA, your property taxes can’t go up by 50%. Prop 13 limits increases yoy to 2% annually. Thank god for prop13!
Property taxes can go up in areas outside CA that high, but it's usually permitted construction work on your house. School referendums are the biggie for tax hikes generally which I believe can still happen outside of Prop 13 in CA, but I don't actually know. I've never read it, but I thought it was just limited to annual increases for non-school spending. If I'm wrong I'd never send my kid to a school in CA if I lived there.
2540
stfu
2023 Jun 7, 8:58am
zzyzzx says
North Carolina has a neat provision called a "due diligence" deposit in addition to the typical earnest money. It's quite literally the only leverage the seller has after signing the sales contract. Money deposited as "due diligence" remains with the seller regardless of the ultimate outcome of the process. Think of it as the cost to take the home off of the market for the closing period. When we sold our first home in 2014 the DD money was still typically under $1,000 and as a result you would have people kicking the tires and keeping you off market for 30 or 60 days. We learned this lesson the hard way. The last house we sold we said no earnest money but we won't accept an offer with less than 5% of the sales price in due diligence. That was in the 10's of thousands and gave us the leeway to agree to none of the requested concessions. It was as close to a 'zero bullshit' closing as I could hope for.
There's literally no way a buyer can get the DD money back, even if they discover that the house is about to fall down and even if there is evidence that the seller knew it (good luck proving it without a paper trail). The fact of the matter is that, in NC, using the standard realtor purchase contract, ALL homes are being sold 'as is'.
How much of my $130k earnest money will I potentially lose if I decide to pull out of a home purchase deal in New Jersey?
North Carolina has a neat provision called a "due diligence" deposit in addition to the typical earnest money. It's quite literally the only leverage the seller has after signing the sales contract. Money deposited as "due diligence" remains with the seller regardless of the ultimate outcome of the process. Think of it as the cost to take the home off of the market for the closing period. When we sold our first home in 2014 the DD money was still typically under $1,000 and as a result you would have people kicking the tires and keeping you off market for 30 or 60 days. We learned this lesson the hard way. The last house we sold we said no earnest money but we won't accept an offer with less than 5% of the sales price in due diligence. That was in the 10's of thousands and gave us the leeway to agree to none of the requested concessions. It was as close to a 'zero bullshit' closing as I could hope for.
There's literally no way a buyer can get the DD money back, even if they discover that the house is about to fall down and even if there is evidence that the seller knew it (good luck proving it without a paper trail). The fact of the matter is that, in NC, using the standard realtor purchase contract, ALL homes are being sold 'as is'.
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net
Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.
Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.