patrick.net

Patrick says

American trains are an embarrassment to the country. Other countries have much better train systems.

I suspect our train system sucks because the auto industry wants it that way.

A few years back I took a train from Dublin to Cork and another from London to Bath. If it were the US I would have preferred to have driven both. The reason isn’t the train system. Amtrak has a surf liner train that goes from Union Station in downtown LA to San Diego and I wouldn’t take that over driving. It’s the time needed to get to the station and then waiting for the trains that sucks. Way easier and quicker to drive.

CovfefeButDeadly says

It’s the time needed to get to the station

Huh, I'd say just the opposite: it's way easier to get to the train station, which is usually in the center of a city, than the airport, which way out in some suburb.

Tenpoundbass says

Patrick says

I suspect our train system sucks because the auto industry wants it that way.

Not so, look our airlines.

The airlines are private, so they have to provide at least some minimum level of value or they die.

Amtrack is a government agency, which makes it much more susceptible to lobbying by the auto industry. And government generally runs everything badly anyway.

The Bestest Fastest way into downtown LA when arriving by plane: fly to Burbank, walk about 5 minutes to the train stop. Three stops, about 20 minutes to Union Station. Two different train lines, so they come frequently enough. We did this last year.

B.A.C.A.H. says

The Bestest Fastest way into downtown LA when arriving by plane: fly to Burbank, walk about 5 minutes to the train stop. Three stops, about 20 minutes to Union Station. Two different train lines, so they come frequently enough. We did this last year.

That's the reality, some points of destination are perfectly set up, laid out, and linked for train travel. It's not just the Train that makes it viable. It's the terrain, the supporting infrastructure, and other modes of travel to get to and from the station, and to continue on to your destination from the station.

A train system is useless for a Flat featureless topography with a pure grid layout. South Florida is stuck with what we've got.
Had the City planners had the forethought 60 years ago, that one day people would want trains, monorails and people movers.
Our streets would have been more of a multi directional pattern. Not just N/S and E/W street directions. We lack Loops, Crossovers, and By Passes.
A train system with our grid pattern, would only serve to make traffic suck for everyone else. It would create a culture of people despising the trains even more.

We could do an elevated Train, but who in the hell want's thick concrete pilons in their backyards, and have the swooshing of trains passing by all hours of the day and night?

tovarichpeter says

Trains are an older but better way to travel

I've always thought so, too! So what if it takes longer? You go through the countryside, settle in and enjoy the trip. Especially nice if you get to spend the night on the train.

Would you rather go through the countryside on a train, sitting and sleeping on Ikea Furniture and Lawn Chairs.
Or on Lazy Boy recliners, Diner Booths, and Double Bed sleepers?

Patrick says

CovfefeButDeadly says

It’s the time needed to get to the station

Huh, I'd say just the opposite: it's way easier to get to the train station, which is usually in the center of a city, than the airport, which way out in some suburb.

It's a pain to get to either of them. Problem with trains is the number of stations along a route. At least out of Chicago I have a non-stop flight to pretty much anywhere in the country and even Europe. You can make trains go 500mph, but if you have to stop every 15-20 miles it really doesn't matter. Most Amtrak lines coming out of Chicago have 3-4 stops by the time you get 50-60 miles outside of Union Station. And then it's a stop every 80 miles or so after that. You blow an hour just stopping at all these places for every hour you travel.

Passenger trains just don't work in the US. Regionally, maybe, but that's a huge expense for something that could fail. East coast is really the only place I ever see it working in our lifetime. The cost of traveling from say Boston to DC via plane or LA to SF is trivial at this point. A train will never beat it with all the land acquisition costs, build out, maintenance, actual trains/cars, etc.

Outside of shipping freight, I predict in 20-30 years we'll be laughing our asses off that high speed passenger rail was even considered here.

Liberals tell us we need latest technology therefore
- pulls out solar panels from the 60's and fucking wind mills from the dark ages.
- we should also use trains instead of planes.
- we should use scooters instead of cars.

It's insane how they try to get government to buy old fucking technology for a shit ton of tax dollars. That's a huge fucking scam.

Patrick says

Huh, I'd say just the opposite: it's way easier to get to the train station, which is usually in the center of a city, than the airport, which way out in some suburb.

What is easier to get to from Menlo Park: SFO or that (future) HSR terminal under the SalesForce tower?

Patrick says

I suspect our train system sucks because the auto industry wants it that way.

I suspect it is because there is insufficient population density in US. Trains best work in densely populated areas (which is most of Europe and China), while train from Houston to Amarillo would be inherently money-losing proposition. Furthermore, a YUUGE problem for building train tracks is acquiring land from landowners.

Trans-American highway was sunk in Texas because landowners did not bow to MASTERS! of UNIVERSE! and Texas Governor Perry.

A citizens uprising was started in 2003 by Linda and David Stall of Fayette County, after reading a small notice in a trade paper about a hearing to be held by TxDOT in their rural town of Fayetteville, Texas. The Stalls notified their friends and neighbors. Eight-hundred people showed up to a town hall with a seating capacity of 100. David Stall, a city manager, and Linda Stall, an escrow officer of a Texas title company, founded CorridorWatch.org to lead the building of a network of people who worked together to defeat the construction project.

Trans-American highway, aka the NAFTA Oursourcing Express

B.A.C.A.H. says

The Bestest Fastest way into downtown LA

First question, why would anyone ever want to visit the downtown of LA?

In contrast to Boston, NYC, DC, and heaven forbid, Philadelphia, LA's got more going on the 'burbs than anywhere near the alleged center city. It's practically a ghost town and goes completely empty after 5PM, aside from roving hoodlums.

Rin says

First question, why would anyone ever want to visit the downtown of LA?

In contrast to Boston, NYC, DC, and heaven forbid, Philadelphia, LA's got more going on the 'burbs than anywhere near the alleged center city. It's practically a ghost town and goes completely empty after 5PM, aside from roving hoodlums.

Don't forget the poop, the homeless, the drug needles, and various crime. That's downtown LA these days. Fucking sad what they are doing to the city.

FortWayneIndiana says

Don't forget the poop, the homeless, the drug needles, and various crime

Yes, I thought that hoodlums kinda covered it but that's a more comprehensive glance at the state of LA downtown, shithole central.

Rin says

heaven forbid, Philadelphia

Just there, I couldn't believe how nasty it was. Literally, one block from City Hall, swarming with insane homeless.

HonkpilledMaster says

Rin says

heaven forbid, Philadelphia

Just there, I couldn't believe how nasty it was. Literally, one block from City Hall, swarming with insane homeless.

Yes, I believe numerous conferences labelled as 'Philadelphia area' are hosted in Montgomery County PA or South Jersey (Cherry Hill region) for the safety of their attendants and hosts.

Rin says

First question, why would anyone ever want to visit the downtown of LA?

Sorry bro, I don't see myself going east of Reno, unless it's the Far East, which we travel west to get to.

Well... Union Station is a hub with connecting trains all and subways all over the region, though we weren't there for that.

Staples Center is a couple of miles from Union Station. There's a metro connection at union station but since we had luggage we took a Lyft.

We were there for a concert at Staples.

The area around Staples is called "LA Live", all sorts of hip and cool and trendy stuff for hipsters. The Hipsterism doesn't appeal to us but we were immersed in it that weekend. We stayed there because the hotel was across the street from Staples. The weekend we were there, the area was swarming with a combination of Red Sox fans in town for the World Series, (outnumbered by chartered busloads of) Cheeseheads in town for the Packers visiting the Rams, and all of those outnumbered by hipsters dressed as comic book superheros and heroines for a Comicon in the Convention Center that was a block away. All these folks vastly outnumbered the LA stereotypes but you didn't have to look too hard to see them. We did not leave the LA Live area that weekend, except to return to Union Station to return to the airport.

Rin says

FortWayneIndiana says

Don't forget the poop, the homeless, the drug needles, and various crime

Yes, I thought that hoodlums kinda covered it but that's a more comprehensive glance at the state of LA downtown, shithole central.

Just calling it hoodlums doesn't do enough justice, it's too nice for what it is.

B.A.C.A.H. says

All these folks vastly outnumbered the LA stereotypes but you didn't have to look too hard to see them.

That sounds like visitors, hiding in the Philly Convention Center, to avoid getting mugged outdoors.

https://notthebee.com/article/umm-i-think-we-just-invented-trains-again

Umm... I think we just invented trains again

For years, self-driving trucks have been seen as the wave of the future. Instead of having long-haul truckers, we'd just set the trucks on the road to make the deliveries on their own.

But that hasn't really worked. Part of the problem is the complexity of navigating the freeway system. Part of it is that companies want electric vehicles, which require massive batteries to haul an 18-wheeler only a few hundred miles.

But someone working on these trucks had the brilliant thought: "Why don't we put these trucks on some kind of track, off the highway, where they can travel together in sort of a train ..."

There is a new rail line in Florida called Brightline.
It goes from Palm Beach to Miami and in a few days will have service up to Orlando.
It's nice and the trains are pretty fast, they go 80 but will go 120 later on.
It's privately owned, I think it's the only one in the USA.
I'm going to take it to Miami sometime, to hell with driving.

LA used to have an extensive street car system



https://la.curbed.com/2015/11/9/9902244/red-car-map-los-angeles

Yes, GM, Firestone Tire, and Standard Oil bought up the LA street car system and pulled up all the tracks to be sure that people would have to ride cars and busses instead.

They were convicted of conspiracy and fined $100 or something like that.

Onvacation says

LA used to have an extensive street car system



https://la.curbed.com/2015/11/9/9902244/red-car-map-los-angeles

So did the Bay Area.