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Islam and Violence


 invite response                
2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   610,009 views  2,856 comments

by resistance   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

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1977   richwicks   2023 Aug 15, 6:43pm  

gabbar says


richwicks says


I am EXTREMELY doubtful that that Ruhollah Khomeini ever said that or any Ayatollah has ever said that.

You can have any category of doubts, it doesn't make you right. You are sympathetic to the Muslims and that's is okay.



Dude, I am so fucking used to propaganda.

We are on the fucking Internet. You can link to anything, store anything, find anything, so why should I pay attention to claims?

This is our fucking news:


original link

I remember when it was claimed that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was accused of wanting to "wipe Israel off the map", what you COULDN'T find was him saying that and a bunch of confusion from speakers of Farsi trying to explain the idiom doesn't exist. I'm fucking so goddamned of this. CAMERA is a bunch of fucking liars, so is MEMRI.

MEMRI was created by Yigal Carmon. I'm tired of people uncritically believing fucking propaganda. It's so easy to fucking check, NOBODY does. I have screamed and yelled at people to include FUCKING LINKS, but they won't. They won't because they don't give a shit if it's true or not. It confirms their bias, good enough. You don't give a shit. You don't care if you're being used. That's pathetic. If you're going to spread propaganda, get fucking paid for it, but doing for free? There's a difference between a prostitute and a slut. I can respect a prostitute to some extent. A slut, they think they are worthless. Have some goddamned self respect for god's sakes.

I wish I was a shittier person, it's so easy to produce propaganda in the United States. Rachael Maddow makes 30 million dollars a year lying to people day in and day out. All you need to do is make up shit, you don't have to do research, you don't have to think you don't even have to make your bullshit believable or internally consistent. Just repeat the same bullshit every day, over and over again, for a couple months, and the cattle believe it, and there's some nutcase like me screaming out in the crowd "I don't think that's true, where's your source?"

Oh, if I am against the Iraq War because there's no weapons of mass destruction there because I've listened to Scott Ritter, and know something about Saddam Hussein who was a Ba'athist and would NEVER work with binLaden, I'm a Hussein sympathizer.

Fuck you. I'm not cattle. You go graze. Believe and repeat all the bullshit you want. Lie to others, spread propaganda, be a dupe. Enjoy being completely oblivious, having no idea what is going on, enjoy being a puppet. Let's start ANOTHER fucking war we've been lied into, let's spend another few trillion dollars, let's kill a few more million people, let's get US servicemen killed, let's get our pathetic reputation as being hypocrite and compulsive liars and scum, reduced even more. Protect criminals in our government, protect voter fraud, get the cattle to take god knows what as a "vaccine", get them killed - who cares? Just repeat the fucking nonsense, and make the world a worse fucking place. Spread lies, believe them.

Remember the USSR and the bullshit they stated? It was embarrassing. That's where we are but at least it only came from the state, not the citizens of the state.

At least the USSR had Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - who do we have? Perhaps Julian Assange, and he's not even an American and he had more balls than any other "American" journalist in this country, land of the free, where we have free speech, and a Constitution we allow our government to ignore. Where we have torture, and get lied into wars, and people who uncritically and unthinkingly help our government bankrupt this nation in stupid wars that do NOTHING for this country, and only harm it, while kills millions. Keep repeating the bullshit, I mean, it's not like it's 1985 anymore, and it's not FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR easier to prove anything. What the fuck did we make this system for? I guess for more propaganda, and pornography. What a waste.
1978   Patrick   2023 Aug 15, 7:57pm  

gabbar says





I liked Christopher Hitchens. Very blunt.
1979   richwicks   2023 Aug 15, 10:14pm  

Patrick says

I liked Christopher Hitchens. Very blunt.


He was an unrepentant defender of the Iraq War that George W. Bush lied us into.

Anybody that supported that war, or voted for that war, is either ignorant or evil. Nobody that voted for that war deserves to be in office. They should be removed for incompetence, or for criminality.
1980   Patrick   2023 Aug 15, 10:51pm  

Thanks @richwicks I didn't know that.

Now I think much less of Hitchens.
1982   Patrick   2023 Aug 18, 1:33pm  

https://notthebee.com/article/fargo-police-release-video-of-syrian-refugee-who-opened-fire-on-cops-planned-to-shoot-up-packed-street-fair


"THREE OFFICERS DOWN, send everybody!": Fargo police release bodycam video of Syrian refugee who planned to shoot up packed street fair but was stopped by hero cop




Oh, the legacy media didn't tell ya about that, huh?

Fargo police have now released the bodycam footage showing what happened that day. Let me prepare you with a huge content warning here, but we think it's important that people be able to see what's actually happening out there in their communities.


1983   HeadSet   2023 Aug 18, 1:54pm  

Brave cop. I would have never yelled "put down the gun" first. I would have shot right away to take out the gunman before he shot me or someone else with a stray bullet. After all, the gunman already proved he will shoot people on sight.
1984   Blue   2023 Aug 19, 12:24am  

Patrick says

Oh, the legacy media didn't tell ya about that, huh?

Media suppress events like this is because Dems imported that Kafirophobe who is a new Democrat!
1985   Patrick   2023 Sep 19, 9:27am  

https://twitter.com/EleZorWeb/status/1704037601513267205


@EleZorWeb
The 24-year-old suspect, a Somali immigrant, grabbed a knife from the kitchen section of a department store. Then he stabbed and killed a saleswoman and two more women in the store. He then injured five other women and a child on the street and in a bank. Police searched a homeless shelter, where he was registered to be living, and found his phone and leaflets with hateful messaging. A witness reported that the suspect shouted "Allah Akbar" during the attack.
https://bbc.com/news/world-europe-57624115
12:39 AM · Sep 19, 2023
1986   Patrick   2023 Oct 2, 11:44am  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66954233


Dutch police have arrested a gunman who killed at least three people in twin shootings in the city of Rotterdam.

They say the male attacker, 32, opened fire in a home before setting it alight, then stormed the city's Erasmus Medical Center on Thursday.

He was a student at Erasmus University, which is affiliated with the hospital.

A woman, 39, and her 14-year old daughter were killed in the first shooting. A male lecturer, 43, was shot dead at the hospital.

Footage has emerged showing a man in camouflaged clothing being taken from the hospital building in handcuffs. The motives for the attack were not immediately known. ...

At a news briefing after Thursday's shooting, Rotterdam police officers said the gunman was known to them. He had been convicted of animal cruelty two years ago.

The suspect has been named Fouad L., Dutch media are reporting.


His name is Fouad, obviously Arabic.

Huh, motive not known. What on earth could it have been?
1987   KgK one   2023 Oct 2, 11:57am  

Patrick says






Comes in pack of 1 to 4. Mouth gags, stone to throat her, goats n camel sold separately. Owner allowed to beat up other kids , take their Adult n kid size dolls for fun.
Previous one was quoted incorrectly
1990   richwicks   2023 Oct 7, 10:28pm  

Patrick says







I have talked to Sunni and Shias, pointing out they have common problems, and there is a motive to create them to fight. They can no more understand or believe this, then when I tell an American, that the FBI purposely created the conditions for the 1993 WTC bombing.

They are in a dark age like when Protestants deeply hated Catholics, and vice versa, and that wasn't that long ago. We are always pitted against one another, constantly. Blacks versus whites, gay versus heterosexuals, constantly bullshit wars. Conflict continually made so we never look up at who causes the conflict.

An outside force causes them to kill one another, and that outside force wants them both dead. Do you really believe gay men and women are pushing this idea of gender bullshit? I don't. I believe they will be willing pawns in it though. Who is giving the book Gender Queer to an elementary school library - NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS - isn't that weird? After years, nobody knows.
1991   gabbar   2023 Oct 8, 6:40am  

richwicks says


Do you really believe gay men and women are pushing this idea of gender bullshit?

No, the rich and the powerful. They want to maintain status quo.
1992   Tenpoundbass   2023 Oct 8, 7:09am  

richwicks says

Do you really believe gay men and women are pushing this idea of gender bullshit? I don't. I believe they will be willing pawns in it though.


I believe their complacency will be their downfall. The problem is society is so brainwashed to push back any and all criticism of the Left's pet useful idiots, that even people who aren't gay, are willing defenders of anything. Even grooming transgenders in kindergarten, trans sex shows for kids, and explicit books teaching elementary kids how to have gay sex. If a gay movement isn't' behind it, then gay people needs to stand up now and recognize what is morally acceptable and not. They were equal members of society in ancient Rome and Greece, you can imagine what happened, that made the societal pariah they became for the next 2000 years. People got fed up probably over the same politics.
1993   Patrick   2023 Oct 8, 9:07am  

gabbar says

richwicks says



Do you really believe gay men and women are pushing this idea of gender bullshit?

No, the rich and the powerful. They want to maintain status quo.


Right, and they want to distract us us with everything except how they have become nothing but a mafia, stealing everything by corrupting the government.
1994   gabbar   2023 Oct 8, 11:48am  

richwicks says

Who is giving the book Gender Queer to an elementary school library - NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS - isn't that weird? After years, nobody knows.

Sometime back, I made a public records request to a local library. For a list of books. The head honcho of the library was angry at me and she made that clear during a phone conversation. Maybe they don't want the public to know?
1996   gabbar   2023 Oct 10, 7:53am  

This is the popular perspective among Muslims, there is no end to Palestine-Israel matters.
1998   AD   2023 Oct 11, 10:21am  

gabbar says

This is the popular perspective among Muslims, there is no end to Palestine-Israel matters.


They never broke the Palestinian spirit over these last ~~150 years of Jewish migration (i.e., Aliyah) and population increasing steadily in the land where the nation of Israel resides.

In this case the Palestinians refer to this as "illegally occupy", "invade" or "squat" more so than "reside".

This is not like Native Americans from 1750 to 1900 as they did not have no Iran or other countries to serve as its financier and protector.

.
2000   gabbar   2023 Oct 11, 10:33am  

Affront: an action or remark that causes outrage or offense for the peaceful community
2001   AD   2023 Oct 11, 10:38am  

ad says


gabbar says

This is the popular perspective among Muslims, there is no end to Palestine-Israel matters.

They never broke the Palestinian spirit over these last ~~150 years of Jewish migration (i.e., Aliyah) and population increasing steadily in the land where the nation of Israel resides.


That is because they created a Arab slum in Gaza (and somewhat in West Bank) with the 2 state solution (Israel + Palestinian).

Egypt does not want to extend Gaza border to its Sinai peninsula lands.

And other countries like Lebanon want to keep the Palestinians in refugee camps instead of fully integrating them.

You would think it would be easier to integrate Palestinians in Lebanon and other countries like Egypt as compared to Israel (essentially a Jewish state) and the West (i.e., Sweden, Canada, etc).

Its like they are treated as rabid animals and nobody wants them (the Palestinians). Why can't they set up Kibbutz in Lebanon, Iran, etc and train them to work in industries just like Israel has Kibbutz ? Problem is they are Arab and not Persians like the Iranians.
.
2002   HeadSet   2023 Oct 11, 5:56pm  

gabbar says





Where is the "not going" part? The US is sending over a carrier group.
2003   richwicks   2023 Oct 11, 6:11pm  

HeadSet says

Where is the "not going" part? The US is sending over a carrier group.


US has become so corrupt and stupid, that it's no wonder that the military cannot meet recruitment goals.

We have the stupidest state department and military leadership ever, because who wants to be associated with this bullshit? Remember the ASVAB tests? I missed a single question on it, I had recruiters calling me when I was 16, I told the recruiters I knew the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a lie, and that nothing happened to the liars.

We have now had 20 solid YEARS of that, and it's a lot easier to know that we've been lied into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Somalia. It's quite trivial to find out that the US overthrew Ukraine, and instigated the Ukraine war.

So, if you have some level of morality, would you join the military today, knowing, for CERTAIN, that every conflict that you get into, YOUR nation started, by LYING to the entire nation to start?

Also, I would have washed out of the military to be honest. I don't have the psyche for it, I would have been in the brig for constant insubordination.
2004   Karloff   2023 Oct 11, 6:32pm  

The Muslim terror attacks in the US mostly subsided the past few years. Watch them ramp right up now. The evil degenerates who illegitimately sit in the seats of power will want your consent to go to war in the Middle-East.. again. They want your consent, your money, your allegiance, and possibly your life.

The attacks will start up again and as usual, the three-letter agencies will be facilitating them. They have no imagination, so it will be the same playbook as always. Devastating attack that the intelligence communities "somehow miss", loss of life, and passports magically found amongst the bodies and smoking rubble that coincidentally match the nationalities/ideologies of those they want to attack. They will immediately know who did it and why before any investigation has time to even be talked about, and despite claiming cluelessness just moments before.
2005   AD   2023 Oct 11, 8:15pm  

richwicks says

I knew the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a lie, and that nothing happened to the liars.


Its called False Flag Op. You'd likely be killed on day 1 of CIA Langley orientation week, Richie.

.
2006   AD   2023 Oct 11, 8:17pm  

richwicks says

US overthrew Ukraine, and instigated the Ukraine war.


A revolution in Ukraine was not hard to organize as most Ukrainians (even just east of the Dniper River) were not enthusiastic of its President being a lackey for the Kremlin as far as seeking loans from Russia and trade agreements from Russia.

They knew they'd get a better financial deal if they were more integrated with western Europe.

.
2008   Patrick   2023 Oct 11, 9:21pm  

Are the Muslims doing that again, or is that from a few years ago? I remember when they killed a bunch of Coptic Christians in Libya.
2009   AmericanKulak   2023 Oct 11, 9:35pm  

Patrick says

Are the Muslims doing that again, or is that from a few years ago? I remember when they killed a bunch of Coptic Christians in Libya.

I think from Arab Spring.
2010   richwicks   2023 Oct 11, 9:41pm  

ad says


Its called False Flag Op. You'd likely be killed on day 1 of CIA Langley orientation week, Richie.


I would never join the CIA. That's been a criminal organization since its inception.

False flags are what the Nazis did. I have a problem with my government propagandizing their population, and I certainly have a problem with them, I dunno, blowing up the WTC to start 20 years of pointless and expensive wars.

Who would defend such actions? Only a scumbag would, and that's what the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc are - just scumbags. They know, if I know.

The purpose of making the Internet was to make this shit stop, and although it's taken 20 years longer than I ever imagined it would, we are getting there. How many people are saying the latest bullshit in Gaza smells suspicious?

And the irony of this is that it's easier to find information now, because it's not just YouTube or Facebook, or Twitter. All the smart, principled, people have been kicked off those platforms, so it's relatively easy to find smart, astute, thinking people on the sites they ended up on. It's EASIER to find information today than it was 15 years ago. You don't have to deal with all the dopes anymore that call everything a crazy conspiracy theory. You can just openly discuss what you just saw, and get good reasoning and thinking about why it might be a conspiracy. That was impossible 15 years ago.

And I don't think the Gulf of Tonkin incident can be considered a false flag, since nobody was actually attacked. It was just a false claim of a failed attack.
2011   richwicks   2023 Oct 11, 9:45pm  

ad says

A revolution in Ukraine was not hard to organize as most Ukrainians (even just east of the Dniper River) were not enthusiastic of its President being a lackey for the Kremlin as far as seeking loans from Russia and trade agreements from Russia.

They knew they'd get a better financial deal if they were more integrated with western Europe.


No. Europe and Russia both made offers to Ukraine, it was Russia that had the better financial deal. That's why Viktor Yanukovych went with Russia.

Look at what this has led to, it's destroyed Ukraine. Ukraine, what will remain of it, is going to be in deep debt to Europe for the rest of my life and then some. What Russia takes over in the East, they aren't being put in debt, as they are going to be part of Russia again.

Whatever remains of Ukraine at the end of this will be living under austerity measures for 100 years.
2012   Misc   2023 Oct 11, 10:10pm  

Yanukovych went with Russia because they offered him the biggest bribe. The Ukraine had already scammed the European banks by borrowing $128 billion from them (of course some of this made its way back into the pockets of the European politician/bankers' personal accounts. The US was a Johnny come lately to the corruption bucks scam that was ongoing in Ukraine.

The European banks ain't writing any of these bad loans off. It's just been added to the "pretend" part of pretend and extend.

People are still using the Euro as a currency though. Well, at least for now. but it's more speculative at this moment.
2013   richwicks   2023 Oct 11, 10:41pm  

Misc says

Yanukovych went with Russia because they offered him the biggest bribe.


Maybe. The point I'm making is that the US overthrew him, Ukraine went to civil war almost immediately, and has been preventing the implementation of the Minsk Accords and all that is happening now is the US is using tax payer money, to do send as "aid" in which a portion returns to the US as bribes, while the population of Ukraine gets wiped out.

The US isn't doing ANYTHING for Ukraine by funding this war. It's not helping Europe either. However, there's plenty of politicians taking bribes to continue it, both in Ukraine and the United States.

I don't see how you can't understand this. All the US is doing is

1) using taxpayer money to get more Ukrainians killed
2) using taxpayer money to enrich themselves through back conduits which was funded as "AID"
3) increasing energy prices of Europe
4) pissing off a nuclear super power
5) using tax payer money to bribe officials in Ukraine to continue the war.

What's to support? In what possible way does this help the United States, you, me, any European, or a Ukrainian? It helps a few sociopaths, that's it.

Ukraine is NOT going to beat Russia, Russia is NOT about to break up, Putin staying in power or leaving power will NOT change the situation.

People think "well we have to help Ukraine" - we're not helping Ukraine. Ukraine is conscripting every man they can find to fight this war, they are poorly trained, and often old, they are just cannon fodder. They are now actively trying to recruit women. It's a DESPERATE situation and it all could have been avoided several ways but the US didn't want to avoid it, they wanted this war.
2014   AD   2023 Oct 11, 11:56pm  

richwicks says

People think "well we have to help Ukraine" - we're not helping Ukraine. Ukraine is conscripting every man they can find to fight this war, they are poorly trained, and often old, they are just cannon fodder. They are now actively trying to recruit women. It's a DESPERATE situation and it all could have been avoided several ways but the US didn't want to avoid it, they wanted this war.


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ex-us-officials-held-secret-154000547.html

They likely are going to push Zelensky to unwind the war effort and agree to a cease fire within the next 6 months.

A lot of this can be gauged by how USA financial aid to Ukraine is presented.

If there is a lot of emphasis on the financial aid being mostly humanitarian assistance then that is an indication about the West nodding Zelensky to accept a cease fire.

Also Biden Admin has budgeted $50 billion each for 2022 and 2023. If they only budget less than $30 billion then that may also be a sign they want to scale back the war effort.

.
2015   richwicks   2023 Oct 12, 12:07am  

ad says

They likely are going to push Zelensky to unwind the war effort and agree to a cease fire within the next 6 months.


I hope so, but I doubt it.
2016   gabbar   2023 Oct 12, 6:12am  

Something like this happened to me.

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