patrick.net

True. I've read that most new cars have GPS tracking whether you want it or not.

https://www.techwalla.com/articles/how-to-disable-the-gps-locator-in-a-car

https://notthebee.com/article/a-huge-percentage-of-electric-vehicle-owners-are-defecting-and-going-back-to-internal-combustion-cars

Is our honeymoon with the electric vehicle finally over? A study found that one in five early adopters of EV cars and trucks are returning to gas-powered vehicles. As a result, used EV prices are freefalling.

The Journal Nature published a study revealing that of the folks who were early adopters of EVs in California (between 2012 and 2018), 20% of [plug-in hybrid] drivers have returned to fully gas-powered vehicles and 18% of full EV drivers returned to gas-powered - with their subsequent vehicle purchase. ...

Dude got into a fender-bender in his Rivian. Insurance offered $1,600. The repair bill was $42,000.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I just feel like there's some stuff they're not telling us about these electric cars...

And just last weekend, my wife's cousin was saying how hard it was to use her EV to get from Los Gatos to Half Moon Bay, because there is a big hill in the way, and how expensive repairs are on it. Can't remember what car it was, not a Tesla.

Patrick says

As a result, used EV prices are freefalling.

Don't buy one!!!!

The battery pack has a limited lifespan, and that's like 1/2 the cost of the vehicle.

Patrick says

Dude got into a fender-bender in his Rivian. Insurance offered $1,600. The repair bill was $42,000.

If you get into a minor accident in an EV, you MAY have damaged the battery pack, and if you have, it's basically a bomb. Even minor accidents, for safety reasons, need the entire battery pack to be replaced.

EV's kind of remind me of thin clients. They try to bring that back every few years too. I think we're on the verge of abandoning all this Green Energy nonsense as people are starting to recognize that although PERHAPS IN THE FUTURE, it might be viable, we're not there yet.

richwicks says

The battery pack has a limited lifespan

Interesting. There is a cab company in AZ that runs a fleet of 200 Prius cabs and has done so for more than 15 years. They put over 300,000 miles on them before removing them but have kept a few around for 10 years with much more mileage. The Prius is a hybrid, but the battery is still constantly charged and discharged. It seems the all electric car's battery would hold up as well.

HeadSet says

Interesting. There is a cab company in AZ that runs a fleet of 200 Prius cabs and has done so for more than 15 years. They put over 300,000 miles on them before removing them but have kept a few around for 10 years with much more mileage. The Prius is a hybrid, but the battery is still constantly charged and discharged. It seems the all electric car's battery would hold up as well.

It's not quite the same. A hybrid only activates the battery for acceleration and breaking.

Batteries have a limited lifespan because of dendrites. As you recharge a battery, you end up with little tendrils of metal from the cathode, when it touches the anode, the battery is dead, or at least that cell of the battery is dead. It's a short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWsR44dmbBs

That does a pretty good explanation of it.

I have no idea how big the Prius battery is or if it's replaceable. 1/2 the cost of an EV is just the battery pack.

Electric cars are the bomb. Doesn't everybody feel clean and green driving around in a remote controlled bomb?

All green measures are designed to fail. They are the Globalist Satanic Inversion Lie of sustainablity, they are the exact opposite. They don't want us sustained, they want us dead or enslaved to their crumbs.

Get rid of the shit that works, get corruptocrats to impose green measures, dismantle the infrastructure that could be relied upon, bake and wait for the desperate, helpless population.

Ceffer says

All green measures are designed to fail.

NO, they aren't.

That's what is funded, frequently, but that's not exclusively it. If you have the money, you can live off grid quite comfortably. You will need space and either you will have to change your lifestyle a bit, or get some energy storage system that either had to be regularly replaced or is novel and expensive.

Solar energy is probably a good idea but not how it's implemented. Look at all the roofs we have that are just black and collecting heat. Cover them with panels.

Panels are much thinner than they were 15 years ago. They are practically paper thin, which greatly reduces the energy needed to produce them. I'm out of the field now, but I think it's possible to make it beneficial. If, for example, you could make them practically no cost, like the cost of paper, all of a sudden, production of hydrogen from water and electrolysis makes sense.

We have to reduce costs.

The $42K bill is not surprising, but it's not exclusive to EVs either. A fender is not a fender anymore - it is packed with sensors and cameras. Same for bumpers and even taillights. And don't get me started on windshields: what used to be a $120 job to replace a cracked one is now a $1500 ordeal with a trip to the dealer to calibrate all the shit they now have in/behind it.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has pushed back the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the UK from 2030 to 2035
Sunak says he still expects that by 2030 "the vast majority" of cars will be electric, because of improving technology
He also says there will be "far more time" to transition from gas boilers to heat pumps

--Beebs

RWSGFY says

The $42K bill is not surprising, but it's not exclusive to EVs either. A fender is not a fender anymore - it is packed with sensors and cameras. Same for bumpers and even taillights. And don't get me started on windshields: what used to be a $120 job to replace a cracked one is now a $1500 ordeal with a trip to the dealer to calibrate all the shit they now have in/behind it.

Don't buy any vehicle that has sensors in the windshield, bumpers, or lights. This means no adaptive cruise control / collision avoidance l lane departure or self driving features.

Booger says

Don't buy any vehicle that has sensors in the windshield, bumpers, or lights. This means no adaptive cruise control / collision avoidance l lane departure or self driving features.

Above message sponsored by:

Absolutely biggest pollution is cause by tire. Much more than ICE. Unfortunately, both cars type electric, and ICE use the same tire.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/

REpro says

Absolutely biggest pollution is cause by tire. Much more than ICE. Unfortunately, both cars type electric, and ICE use the same tire.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/

My BIL's Tesla goes through a set of tires every 15K miles like a fucking clockwork. At $400+ for a corner. (The bithching and moaning is epic, LOL). And these are not some super-sticky TW200 tires I like on my sportscars - these are pretty meh plasticky touring all-seasons with TW north of 400. They also gather screws and nails like crazy - I haven't had as many flats in 30 years as he gets in a fucking month, no kidding. I guess this is what happens when passenger tires are run on a vehicle which weights like a fucking truck...

RWSGFY says

My BIL's Tesla goes through a set of tires every 15K miles like a fucking clockwork. At $400+ for a corner. (The bithching and moaning is epic, LOL). And these are not some super-sticky TW200 tires I like on my sportscars - these are pretty meh plasticky touring all-seasons with TW north of 400. They also gather screws and nails like crazy - I haven't had as many flats in 30 years as he gets in a fucking month, no kidding. I guess this is what happens when passenger tires are run on a vehicle which weights like a fucking truck...

Not that I know anything about this, but are his tires properly aligned? If you have poor alignment on your tires, they wear very quickly. That I do know.

https://youtu.be/USVd_k6lQ_c?si=4xDjnEMcFHau5Xl6

PedoIwog says

https://youtu.be/USVd_k6lQ_c?si=4xDjnEMcFHau5Xl6

I know somebody that works for Rivian. He has NO FAITH in the company, he's waiting for his stock to mature, and to cash out.

It's all government money, incentives, and bullshit investing from god knows where. I don't think EVs have a future. In 20 years, we'll just see this as a minor mania because the world won't be burning down (again) from climate change.

richwicks says

In 20 years, we'll just see this as a minor mania because the world won't be burning down (again) from climate change.

The goal is to make cars too expensive for anyone except the rich and politically connected. In 20 years, owning a car will be like owning a private jet today.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

In 20 years, we'll just see this as a minor mania because the world won't be burning down (again) from climate change.

The goal is to make cars too expensive for anyone except the rich and politically connected. In 20 years, owning a car will be like owning a private jet today.

In 20 years, we won't even have this government.

We're going to lose the proxy war in Ukraine, and that's going to jeopardize our hold over Europe. US sanctions don't matter, everybody just ignores them now or "technically" follow them, while entirely ignoring them. US has destroyed itself through 2 decades of pointless wars.

I think that it's only a matter of time before homeowner insurance companies drop or rate jack EV owners over all the EV's spontaneously combusting and taking the house with it.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

In 20 years, we'll just see this as a minor mania because the world won't be burning down (again) from climate change.

The goal is to make cars too expensive for anyone except the rich and politically connected. In 20 years, owning a car will be like owning a private jet today.

I’m not sure we have 20 years to wait.
The stuff going on in Israel and Russia right now is an indication that Bible prophecy is likely soon to be fulfilled. Remember, prophecy is not a prediction, it is a promise.

https://patrick.net/post/1378973/2023-04-02-the-rapture-thread?start=54

PeopleUnited says

The stuff going on in Israel and Russia right now is an indication that Bible prophecy is likely soon to be fulfilled. Remember, prophecy is not a prediction, it is a promise.

In the year 1000 AD and at many other times. people thought current events indicated the Bible prophesy coming to pass. Everyone thinks the end of the world will occur during their lifetimes.

zzyzzx says

I think that it's only a matter of time before homeowner insurance companies drop or rate jack EV owners over all the EV's spontaneously combusting and taking the house with it.

Here in California (and I suspect every other state), the state government heavily "manages" the so-called "private" insurance market. CA government is heavily invested in pushing EVs on everyone. So, they will mandate insurance companies offer low rates to EV vehicles even if it means they jack up rates on ICE vehicles. Dropping EVs won't be an allowed option, but we are seeing companies leave the state altogether (mostly for homeowner insurance because of forrest fires). As insurance companies leave the state, the government will rejoice, because it will give an excuse to take over the industry entirely—socialism for all!

HeadSet says

PeopleUnited says

The stuff going on in Israel and Russia right now is an indication that Bible prophecy is likely soon to be fulfilled. Remember, prophecy is not a prediction, it is a promise.

In the year 1000 AD and at many other times. people thought current events indicated the Bible prophesy coming to pass. Everyone thinks the end of the world will occur during their lifetimes.

Except you and 8.1 billion other humans?

SunnyvaleCA says

Dropping EVs won't be an allowed option

They will drop your homeowners insurance over the EV fire risk, or leave the state.

That or some newer batteries will be produced that don't catch on fire so much.

By the way the rapture is not the end of the world, it is the beginning of the closest thing to hell on earth. Imagine every single horror and disaster movie happening at the same time nonstop for 7 years. It will be worse than that! And then Jesus will return and set up his millennial kingdom in which he will rule on earth for a thousand years. After 1000 years Satan will be loosed for one last time and then the end will come.

So we are at least 1007 years before the end of the world. But when the rapture comes hell on earth begins, so best not be left behind!

Jesus and only Jesus can save and keep you from the great tribulation soon to be unleashed on the world by Satan and his minions.

I'm ready for hell. In fact, if Jesus comes toward me I'll thank Him,"Thank you Lord, for allowing me to drop my firearm. I am tired dispensing righteous wrath to the agents of Satan. Am I still not worthy to be enraptured?"

Christ would gently say "Ever since Michael flew off after the last kerfluffle with Lucifer back in the day, we've had to improvise somewhat. Tell you what, you just keep doing Our work for us, and we'll put a good word in when it's you're time at the Pearly Gates,"

I would say "Thanks Lord, if that is your will."

Christ would look askance at me and ask "And . . . "

I would then hopefully remember to say "You are my lord and personal savior. Whoever believes in you will sit with you at the right hand of the Father."

Every club has its code words.

Every fool has a cute story bro. And when you stand before God, let me know what He thinks.

Perhaps He will gently say, if you really believed me, why did you mock my sacrifice for your disobedience (sin) and make me pay for it on the cross? Why did you also mock my children who believe in me? For if you had repented I would know you, but I tell you the truth I never knew thee, depart from me ye that work iniquity.

.

Look at the "entry level" electric vehicle, the Chevy Bolt with MSRP of around $26,500 and a range of about 260 miles.

Its been reported owners are easily getting 300 miles range.

Chevy needs a marketing campaign to show life cycle or total ownership costs for at least 10 years. Chevy guarantees the batteries for 100,000 miles. So figure based on 15,000 miles per year that is 6.7 years.

.

ad says

.

Look at the "entry level" electric vehicle, the Chevy Bolt with MSRP of around $26,500 and a range of about 260 miles.

Its been reported owners are easily getting 300 miles range.

Chevy needs a marketing campaign to show life cycle or total ownership costs for at least 10 years. Chevy guarantees the batteries for 100,000 miles. So figure based on 15,000 miles per year that is 6.7 years.

.

I had a Bolt EV on loan from Chevy for a week, as they were trying to sell the cab company I worked for a fleet of them. The car got about 230 miles in range on a full charge. I loved that car. The only issue is that Chevy limited the charge speed so from empty to full would take 2 hours on a Level 3 charger. I presume they did this to save the battery, as repeated fast charges, even on a Tesla, shorten battery life. Tesla owners are richer so are likely to have a Level 2 charger at home and use the Level 3 chargers only on road trips. The Bolt was aimed at a lower economic market that would include apartment dwellers who with no home charger would thus regularly use the Level 3 chargers. Therefore, Chevy limited the charge speed to preserve battery life. Unfortunately, nobody wants to wait 3 hours to charge a car while on a road trip. For those who stayed in town and lived in a house with a level 2 charger or even a accessible dryer plug, one could easily charge overnight. If one just used the Bolt as a commuter car and lived 10 miles from work, one could use plain old household 110v current to top off the car each night. At 110v, the Bolt recharged at about 4 miles per hour.

HeadSet says

I presume they did this to save the battery, as repeated fast charges, even on a Tesla, shorten battery life.

Yep.
.



.

Minimum wage was $1.60 an hour back in 1970. Cars were affordable relative to minimum wage. You could spend 5 years earning minimum wage to comfortably paying off the car loan for a Maverick. City/Highway mileage was 17/22 only :-/

I like how Chevy Bolt similarly markets to the working class who may make $15 an hour.

ad says

You could spend 5 years earning minimum wage to comfortably paying off the car loan for a Maverick.

True, but there were no 5 year loans back then. Then, as now, minimum wage earners made due with used cars. Today's used cars are a far better deal than used cars in the 1960s. A 5 year old car today likely has no issues and lots of life left, while a 5 year old car in 1969 likely was starting to burn oil, had broken door knobs, saggy seats, leaky heater core, rusted radiator, lots of rattles, brake issues, and rust. If one had a 5 year old car, it was likely you needed the services of AAMCO or the many other transmission specialists that used to exist in every town. 1970s cars were even worse.

Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10?amp=

ad says

.

Look at the "entry level" electric vehicle, the Chevy Bolt with MSRP of around $26,500 and a range of about 260 miles.

Its been reported owners are easily getting 300 miles range.

Chevy needs a marketing campaign to show life cycle or total ownership costs for at least 10 years. Chevy guarantees the batteries for 100,000 miles. So figure based on 15,000 miles per year that is 6.7 years.

.

They killed it. Bolt is no more.

https://issuesinsights.com/2024/01/04/collapse-of-used-ev-market-spells-doom-for-bidens-electric-car-dreams/

UkraineIsFucked says

https://issuesinsights.com/2024/01/04/collapse-of-used-ev-market-spells-doom-for-bidens-electric-car-dreams/

Was always a flaw in the model for EV. When you give people tax advantages to buy new, the used is going to be worthless. I've said it before, we've had electric golf carts forever. Even lead acid batteries you're looking at $800 for a 48v setup.... for a golf cart. If you go lithium, you're looking at $2,500 for a quality battery battery replacement.

That's why you can get used golf carts for under $1k. The previous owner got the life out of the battery and the new owner has to replace them. The value goes to shit. Replacing a vehicle battery that moves up to 3-4k lbs loads, that's a big ass battery. You'd be stupid to buy them used and if you did the price would need to be massively lower than an ICE car because you're needing to replace something 3-4x's an ICE engine at some point.

WookieMan says

That's why you can get used golf carts for under $1k. The previous owner got the life out of the battery and the new owner has to replace them. The value goes to shit. Replacing a vehicle battery that moves up to 3-4k lbs loads, that's a big ass battery.

Can you buy a used golf cart that has lithium batteries and relpace the lithium batteries with regular AGM car batteries and an AGM charger?

zzyzzx says

WookieMan says

That's why you can get used golf carts for under $1k. The previous owner got the life out of the battery and the new owner has to replace them. The value goes to shit. Replacing a vehicle battery that moves up to 3-4k lbs loads, that's a big ass battery.

Can you buy a used golf cart that has lithium batteries and relpace the lithium batteries with regular AGM car batteries and an AGM charger?

You can put whatever electric source you want in them. I was just pointing out that a 800lbs vehicle/cart is gonna run you $2,500. That's a battery that gets you maybe 30 miles. Add weight and distance and I think you get the idea and why I've been saying Tesla is just a glorified golf cart. It is. Just a bigger battery at a massive cost that's currently subsidized by the public.

It's a big argument in the golf cart community (lol) about ICE or electric. For short distances I prefer the electric since it's quiet and quick. Long distances EV's have never made sense to me. I drive long distances a lot. So it just won't work for me. Back to carts, the gas ones are fucking annoying and loud and have a ton of lag pressing the peddle if you golf. I hate them. Golfing I hate the ass hole that starts going in the middle of my swing. Fucking d-bag.

WookieMan says

For short distances I prefer the electric since it's quiet and quick. Long distances EV's have never made sense to me. I drive long distances a lot. So it just won't work for me.

Yes - Tesla's are fantastic for roughly 90% of US drivers who aren't constantly taking long road trips.

BTW - if you ever get a chance to roadtrip in a Tesla, check it out. Can't tell you how much more enjoyable and less stress it is to simply turn on Autopilot and let the car handle all the freeway driving.