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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ


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2022 Dec 26, 9:49am   52,252 views  778 comments

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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ

Allysia FinleyDec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET

Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.

Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”

Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.

New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”

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Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.

The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.

Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.

Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.

Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”

A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.


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525   WookieMan   2024 Feb 29, 5:06am  

As GNL has pointed out, old cars are art to an extent. Still fun to drive. I'm a utility guy with a family. So maybe post kids I'd get a fun car. For now it's non-minivan SUV's that can tow at least 6k lbs without worry and hold 7 passengers.

I think most here either don't have kids or they are adult aged at this point. So my perspective on vehicles is different. I also want a car that can stand up in a wreck. I don't care about Tesla's safety rating. A bigger car will always be safer.
526   Onvacation   2024 Feb 29, 5:15am  

socal2 says

Apparently there is a "boat mode" where the battery can seal itself to protect it from water.

More like submarine mode. Those cars don't float.
529   GNL   2024 Feb 29, 5:51pm  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says



https://www.naplesmotorsports.com/used-vehicle-1965-roadster-shelby-cobra-replica-classic-c-3497

Yeah, I like these and always have. I grew up in a small town in MD. When I was about 12 or so, I remember going to an auto shop with my dad and out back I saw one of these in terrible condition. I have always wondered if it was a real one or not. Most of these are kit cars. But, of course, they can be built real nice and with all the most modern components.
530   GNL   2024 Feb 29, 5:53pm  

Eman says





Ok, that looks at least a little better. Eman, you gonna slam it when you buy it? You know what slamming means, correct?
531   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Feb 29, 7:55pm  

There was an article in the WSJ this week about a family who took their Tesla on a cross country drive that included a drive across 299. Got a damaged tire near Weaverville and were stranded there. No spare on board that hipster car, and no spare Tesla tires to be had far and wide in that part of California. It was a major hassle for them that ruined their trip.
533   WookieMan   2024 Mar 1, 1:16am  

B.A.C.A.H. says

There was an article in the WSJ this week about a family who took their Tesla on a cross country drive that included a drive across 299. Got a damaged tire near Weaverville and were stranded there. No spare on board that hipster car, and no spare Tesla tires to be had far and wide in that part of California. It was a major hassle for them that ruined their trip.

Yeah. Can't do road trips with Teslas at all. Would be a major mistake. You need an ICE vehicle or rent one. Tesla is a commuter car. That's why I call them golf carts. That why gas carts on golf courses are more popular despite the noise. It has gas in it or it doesn't... I prefer electric carts golfing, but for whatever reason if I'm autistic or something and the noise of gas cart literally make me angry.

Also, I think once Cyber Truck is sold out, EV market is going to plummet. Reach market saturation. If they're quality cars they'll last a long time. My golf cart will last 10 years on the battery. There's no point in getting a new model unless it's for status for Tesla. And I don't care what you say Eman about CA. It is a status thing and a "green" thing even though it's not.

Either way I know the electric game. I tinker on mine all the time. Take it to get the mail daily (have a CBU). EV's are just not practical long distance vehicles. The semi Musk is designing is going to cost a fortune in a low margin business of transport. And a loss of time charging. The truck will be off the road 20-30% more than diesel trucks. Poof. Profits gone. No trucker is gonna wanna touch it if they're paid by mile and their wife Karen is back home fucking the neighbor. He should just stick to sedans and call it a day. Cyber Truck will be a flop because it cannot tow any distance. Almost no one hooks up a camper to go 40 miles. Because that's all you get with a 6k lbs trailer/camper.
534   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Mar 1, 3:37am  

GNL says


Most of these are kit cars.

Yes, really sweet looking replica. And I can see plunking down close to $100k for it. But if that were the case, why not go for the updated real thing?


535   GNL   2024 Mar 1, 5:11am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

GNL says



Most of these are kit cars.

Yes, really sweet looking replica. And I can see plunking down close to $100k for it. But if that were the case, why not go for the updated real thing?




So many options to choose from, amiright? Yes, I love the new corvette. I think they're going to do even more with them. The first models always end up looking a little plain with each new iteration. I still like restomods most.
536   socal2   2024 Mar 1, 7:47am  

WookieMan says

Yeah. Can't do road trips with Teslas at all. Would be a major mistake.


I take my Model Y to Las Vegas, Phoenix, Northern California and Utah frequently. Anything further requires a flight. Tesla Superchargers for 15 minute stops are everywhere. Tesla is adding a new charger in North America every hour now.


537   Eman   2024 Mar 1, 7:58am  

socal2 says

WookieMan says


Yeah. Can't do road trips with Teslas at all. Would be a major mistake.


I take my Model Y to Las Vegas, Phoenix, Northern California and Utah frequently. Anything further requires a flight. Tesla Superchargers for 15 minute stops are everywhere. Tesla is adding a new charger in North America every hour now.




You’re wasting your time. People will believe what they want to believe even though they don’t own it and don’t know much about it.

Hollywood celebrities are buying Cybertruck. Who would have thought? I didn’t see it either TBH. I thought it was a fugly truck myself when it was unveil, but I put in the reservation anyway. Then got an email from Tesla to design mine on 12/26. Such a huge premium for the Foundation Series so I’m holding out. 😂
538   Eman   2024 Mar 1, 8:01am  

@socal2,

Since Teslas don’t have a spare tire, I have a pump and a tire repair kit in each Tesla. You never know. Cheap insurance.
539   Eman   2024 Mar 1, 8:08am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says


GNL says


Most of these are kit cars.

Yes, really sweet looking replica. And I can see plunking down close to $100k for it. But if that were the case, why not go for the updated real thing?




Why would you drop $100k on a fast car that can only carry 2 persons? Why not buy a used SUV that can carry 7 persons and tow stuff? You know it’s just a matter of when, not if, that you’re going to hit some kid in a fast car. Is this a midlife crisis purchase or a small dick syndrome? 😂

I woke up this morning and felt kind of being funny. Must be Friday. 😂
540   ForcedTQ   2024 Mar 1, 8:17am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

GNL says



Most of these are kit cars.

Yes, really sweet looking replica. And I can see plunking down close to $100k for it. But if that were the case, why not go for the updated real thing?




Huh? That white C8 Corvette isn’t a new version of the 1960’s AC Cobra. You can buy new versions “continuation cars” with CSX6000 and up vins of the Cobra now.
541   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Mar 1, 8:35am  

Eman says


I have a pump and a tire repair kit in each Tesla.

That's a good plan for a flat, not so good for a damaged tire.

from "The Day Our Tesla Inflated" by Rikka Fountain. WSJ page A13 February 27:

"...our high performance Tesla uses high performance tires... those tires can be days away outside a major population center... we could have bought the car with a full size replacement, but that would have left no room for luggage...the tire wasn't patchable..."
542   WookieMan   2024 Mar 1, 10:59am  

That is one of the other problems with Teslas I actually don't hammer on either. They're ugly. Small. At least for a taller guy. Not sure about other EV's as Tesla is the only one I've driven.

They're also advertising on YouTube like gangbusters. They've reached market saturation. I've never seen ads ever. I like older or big cars that guzzle gas. I have my townie cart and I'm good.
543   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Mar 1, 2:11pm  

ForcedTQ says


Huh? That white C8 Corvette isn’t a new version of the 1960’s AC Cobra.

Dang, I was confusing it with a 1950’s Stingray. You are correct, sir!
544   GNL   2024 Mar 1, 2:28pm  

ForcedTQ says

continuation cars

Yep, here's a place you can purchase them. Expensive.
https://revologycars.com/
This is considered a brand new car because it was JUST built from scratch. EVERY part of it.


545   GNL   2024 Mar 1, 2:30pm  

I would think this would fuck up the entire classic car market. Evidently, people/companies resurected the tools/molds etc to make every part. Now you can get a brand new one. If you can build NEW of the most rare cars, how can they keep their value? Hmm, not sure how long they've been doing this but, $338,000 for the one pictured above. Please.
548   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Mar 3, 9:02am  

Eman says

Guess where Socal2 and I live? 😂



https://www.autoblog.com/article/the-best-cities-and-states-to-own-an-ev-in-2024/


Yes. The two here in denial that EVs are niche products.
550   Eman   2024 Mar 3, 9:41am  

socal2 says

Proper Cybertruck advertisement!

https://twitter.com/TheStandardNFT/status/1764196509309137158

@socal2, do you know if this was done by Tesla, or one of the fans?

Elon has promised to spend money on ads, but it’s hard to tell which ones are done by Tesla and which ones are done by its fans.
551   socal2   2024 Mar 3, 9:50am  

Eman says

socal2, do you know if this was done by Tesla, or one of the fans?


Looks official.

https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1763320617758020072
552   ForcedTQ   2024 Mar 3, 10:09am  

I would not call Sacramento, Stockton, Modesto a Metro area. A corridor yes, individually yes, but they are way to separate to be considered one.
556   GNL   2024 Mar 3, 6:29pm  

I'm sorry but, I just can't see the appeal of the cyber truck.
557   Eman   2024 Mar 3, 6:50pm  

GNL says

I'm sorry but, I just can't see the appeal of the cyber truck.


It doesn’t have to make sense to you, me or anyone. I’m just watching the show.



https://x.com/niccruzpatane/status/1764302141009580280?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
558   Eman   2024 Mar 3, 7:56pm  

Check out the boat’s name. I didn’t know this type of boat exists.



https://x.com/minimalduck/status/1764419994685767922?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
559   richwicks   2024 Mar 3, 8:18pm  

GNL says

I would think this would fuck up the entire classic car market. Evidently, people/companies resurected the tools/molds etc to make every part. Now you can get a brand new one. If you can build NEW of the most rare cars, how can they keep their value? Hmm, not sure how long they've been doing this but, $338,000 for the one pictured above. Please.


I'm going to explain a scam that was pulled on everything from beanie babies to video game cartridges.

Basically, some junk is identified as being "rare" but not so rare that it's impossible to get, so a bunch of this garbage is collected on the cheap through various means. Then they started selling the items to THEMSELVES for larger and larger amounts of money. People see the price going on, and people that already have the garbage wait for higher prices, people that have nostalgia for the garbage think it's a safe buy and what's $200 for a video game from their youth they'd like to play again, or whatever.

The market value stays high until inventories are exhausted.

That's the "classic car market".

There's a few genuine collectors, but they are rare.
560   WookieMan   2024 Mar 4, 12:42am  

Eman says




https://x.com/thejefflutz/status/1764344038541480383?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Not Chicago dude. 100%. Fan boy post. I just went to a 100% yuppieville fundraiser Saturday night. Not a Tesla in sight. Not one.

I do see them and this was a suburban area. But they aren't popular here. Rich/wealthy people drive cars with utility or that look better. The Cyber Truck is the Pontiac Aztec of modern times. Except worse. You could at least tow with it for more than 100 miles with payload and would be 1/3rd the cost.

It's okay to admit you overpaid for a car you like. If I want a Ferrari and overpay for a toy, I'll do it. There's no point. I'd rather keep the money and invest it. It's okay to pay higher insurance, have only one source for maintenance, and it's ugly. Enjoy I guess?
561   SouthMtn   2024 Mar 4, 3:46am  

WookieMan says


Not Chicago dude. 100%. Fan boy post. I just went to a 100% yuppieville fundraiser Saturday night. Not a Tesla in sight. Not one.

I do see them and this was a suburban area. But they aren't popular here. Rich/wealthy people drive cars with utility or that look better. The Cyber Truck is the Pontiac Aztec of modern times. Except worse. You could at least tow with it for more than 100 miles with payload and would be 1/3rd the cost.

It's okay to admit you overpaid for a car you like. If I want a Ferrari and overpay for a toy, I'll do it. There's no point. I'd rather keep the money and invest it. It's okay to pay higher insurance, have only one source for maintenance, and it's ugly. Enjoy I guess?


I used to live very close to that area, and even now live somewhat close. This is southbound Roselle Rd in Schaumburg, just north of Golf Rd. If you squint you can see Remington Rd on the street sign.

Google map link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0541336,-88.0798096,3a,75y,186.47h,87.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQcXPYYF2LVFxYu8tSaZGrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
562   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Mar 4, 4:44am  

WookieMan says

The Cyber Truck is the Pontiac Aztec of modern times.

This.
563   GNL   2024 Mar 4, 4:46am  

Eman says

GNL says


I'm sorry but, I just can't see the appeal of the cyber truck.


It doesn’t have to make sense to you, me or anyone. I’m just watching the show.



https://x.com/niccruzpatane/status/1764302141009580280?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

It's got to be some kind of scam or bubble. Stupid imo.

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