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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ


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2022 Dec 26, 9:49am   52,248 views  778 comments

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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ

Allysia FinleyDec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET

Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.

Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”

Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.

New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”

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Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.

The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.

Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.

Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.

Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”

A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.


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570   WookieMan   2024 Mar 4, 8:34am  

Eman says

What a coincidence. This person confirms what southmtn said above about it’s on Golf Rd. Of course, everyone is a liar except Wookie. Wookie knows everything. Do we see a pattern here folks?

I live here dude. I know exactly where that's at. It's not Chicago. And there's ZERO chance that wasn't planned. Car people get in meet ups all the time. Tesla owners go to breakfast or something. They're not around here like CA. One photo doesn't make what you think is real. I live it. Rural, but it's still a rich area.

Fact is Tesla is actively advertising now. Sales are down. I've never seen an ad until the last 2 months. Market saturation is a thing. No one else wants them. I like Elon, but he's not a god. Cyber is going to be a flop for the truck buyers that expect a truck. It's a status symbol. I got it before you did and once the real performance is realized it will be a disaster. I give no shits about hitting my car with a hammer. The window breaking. I won't be in that scenario ever.

My wife totaled a Sequoia in a rear end accident (not at fault). No stiff necks or injuries at all. 3 kids in the car. It was a fully loaded box truck that hit her. There are plenty of other durable, practical vehicles that can get more the 50 miles with a trailer and sitting at a charger for an hour. I don't think the Tesla lovers are getting my valid point. I don't care that they're fun to drive. I've driven them. They good cars for a certain purpose. They don't remotely do what I would need them to do. I don't live in a city or even a large suburb. They're useless to me and all my neighbors. There's not one in my town.
571   Eman   2024 Mar 4, 9:11am  

HeadSet says

Eman says


GNL says



I'm sorry but, I just can't see the appeal of the cyber truck.


It doesn’t have to make sense to you, me or anyone. I’m just watching the show.



https://x.com/niccruzpatane/status/1764302141009580280?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q


I thought that reselling a Cybertruck violated the purchase agreement with Tesla.

It did. The damage is $50k fine if Tesla decides to sue the seller. I don’t know why people do this stuff. It makes no sense to me, but it is what it is.
572   Eman   2024 Mar 4, 9:13am  

zzyzzx says

HeadSet says


I thought that reselling a Cybertruck violated the purchase agreement with Tesla.


I'm sure it does, but since enforcement of EVERYTHING is extremely lax these days, and car dealers frequently violate various laws already, a contractual requirement is meaningless to them.

This is true. The Kia EV9 has really good reviews. Kia told the dealerships not to mark up the price, but they still did. Buyers protested. Let’s see how it will play out.
573   Eman   2024 Mar 4, 9:14am  

Ok Wookie, you basically said 3 persons are liars, and you knew better. I’ll let the readers decide. I don’t know the area. I just share info.
574   GNL   2024 Mar 4, 11:29am  

Eman says


I thought that reselling a Cybertruck violated the purchase agreement with Tesla.

It did. The damage is $50k fine if Tesla decides to sue the seller. I don’t know why people do this stuff. It makes no sense to me, but it is what it is.

It does make sense if what you're trying to do is get headlines. That's why I said bubble. In my honest opinion, only an idiot would pay $300,000 for a cyber truck. It's all for headlines/marketing. The dealer probably sold it to himself.
575   Eman   2024 Mar 4, 12:24pm  

GNL says

Eman says



I thought that reselling a Cybertruck violated the purchase agreement with Tesla.

It did. The damage is $50k fine if Tesla decides to sue the seller. I don’t know why people do this stuff. It makes no sense to me, but it is what it is.

It does make sense if what you're trying to do is get headlines. That's why I said bubble. In my honest opinion, only an idiot would pay $300,000 for a cyber truck. It's all for headlines/marketing. The dealer probably sold it to himself.

Wouldn’t that make the dealer look dumb even if it were self dealing? All bidders knew Porsche South Orlando won the bid. The dealer had to pay 5% commission, or whatever fees for the sale. Then they try to resale it for $290k?

There was one that was sold for $250k prior to this auction, but it didn’t reveal who the buyer was. I’m not in the car biz so I don’t understand the strategies behind this kind of purchase.
576   Eman   2024 Mar 4, 8:18pm  

And the show continues. Some people want to cash in while the going is good. I don’t blame them.



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1764749955841819116?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
577   WookieMan   2024 Mar 4, 8:50pm  

Eman says

Ok Wookie, you basically said 3 persons are liars, and you knew better. I’ll let the readers decide. I don’t know the area. I just share info.

At no point did I say anyone here was a liar. It's not Chicago... It's a suburb. Name the suburb, so say what Chicago suburb or quote it that way. That didn't happen in that comment. 2nd, you haven't addressed that is was likely a Tesla meet up and they were all leaving. There are not that many Teslas here.

You don't understand because you're in CA. They're not practical vehicles here. I'm not joking when the batteries die in cold weather. I have an electric vehicle. It being a golf cart doesn't matter. I know the battery tech. I know the charging. You'd be an idiot to not have an ICE back up in my region. So now you've got a 2nd car. Super green. Super saving... lol.

Enjoy it out in CA and live with crazy ideology about being green and an EV making any sense. It doesn't.
578   Eman   2024 Mar 5, 9:15am  

30 sec video clip. She can shake. Too funny to not share. 😂

https://x.com/red_bullish/status/1764704598059815177?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
579   GNL   2024 Mar 5, 10:30am  

Eman says

30 sec video clip. She can shake. Too funny to not share. 😂

https://x.com/red_bullish/status/1764704598059815177?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

So now, we're supposed to be super excited that Teslas are a spying device also?
580   GNL   2024 Mar 5, 10:31am  

Eman says

And the show continues. Some people want to cash in while the going is good. I don’t blame them.



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1764749955841819116?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

So every cyber truck on the road was purchased for over $200k? The stupidity is stupendous.
581   socal2   2024 Mar 5, 10:52am  

GNL says

So now, we're supposed to be super excited that Teslas are a spying device also?


Wait until you learn about your phone or Smart TV.....

I love being able to access the cameras on my car in real time from my phone. It's like having a ring camera. As more and more people recognize that Teslas are loaded with cameras and other security devices, less people will fuck with the cars knowing that they can be recorded.
582   socal2   2024 Mar 5, 10:55am  

GNL says

So every cyber truck on the road was purchased for over $200k? The stupidity is stupendous.


There are lots of rich people in this world that can afford that type of luxury. I can't understand people who can buy bottles of wine for over $1,000.......but there is alot of them.

Every Tesla has had major price drops once they get the manufacturing scaled up. I hope to get a Cybertruck in 4 years when my next Model Y lease is up and price is more reasonable.
583   HeadSet   2024 Mar 5, 1:42pm  

Eman says

30 sec video clip. She can shake. Too funny to not share.

Do Teslas come with a factory installed dashcam?
584   WookieMan   2024 Mar 5, 3:23pm  

socal2 says

It's like having a ring camera.

It's a liability. I almost broke my arm working. You then have to provide the video and I'll sue you and get your insurance and so will my company. I have static cameras I can watch, but stopped recording. If I have evidence of someone getting hurt on my property, I'm fucked. I strictly use my cameras to check in on the house and the kids. NO recording and I can show proof of it.

Cops don't do shit anymore. Why? Cameras. You don't want a ring doorbells on your house or any device that actively records. Trust me. It's more problems then prevention. Get a gun.
585   GNL   2024 Mar 5, 3:43pm  

Britain Has an 'EV Ticking Time Bomb' Problem

https://blackmon.substack.com/p/tuesdays-energy-absurdity-britain

The Daily Mail reports that what it calls the British government's "safety watchdogs" have issued a recall notice for almost 2,000 EV buses "over fears they can catch fire if left unattended."
586   Eman   2024 Mar 5, 5:22pm  

HeadSet says

Eman says


30 sec video clip. She can shake. Too funny to not share.

Do Teslas come with a factory installed dashcam?

Yes, they all come with front, rear and 4 cameras on the sides. All drivers have the option of turning the dashcam on, off or auto.
587   Eman   2024 Mar 5, 6:16pm  

Dodge is making EV muscle car. Didn’t see this coming.



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1765051701340389561?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
588   Misc   2024 Mar 5, 6:41pm  

So....uhhhh.....EVs are so good that the car manufacturers are making them sound and feel like real cars ????
589   HeadSet   2024 Mar 5, 7:22pm  

Eman says

Dodge is making EV muscle car. Didn’t see this coming.



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1765051701340389561?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Vaporware. Even so, what fellow old enough to afford that car would want fake engine vibration and fake loud exhaust noise? How about fake air intakes as well?
590   ForcedTQ   2024 Mar 5, 7:26pm  

HeadSet says

Eman says


Dodge is making EV muscle car. Didn’t see this coming.



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1765051701340389561?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Vaporware. Even so, what fellow old enough to afford that car would want fake engine vibration and fake loud exhaust noise? How about fake air intakes as well?


Stupid thing weighs more than a 2015 Yukon Denali 4wd!!!
591   GNL   2024 Mar 5, 7:43pm  

Fake AND gay.
592   Eman   2024 Mar 5, 10:55pm  

I agree. It makes no sense. Dodge should have created a new line and a new name for the EV to cater it to a different crowd. Not sure who made the decision to come up with the fake exhaust sound and car vibration.

I love the quietness of my Tesla. It doesn’t make sound when I back up like the newer models.
593   WookieMan   2024 Mar 5, 11:21pm  

ForcedTQ says

Stupid thing weighs more than a 2015 Yukon Denali 4wd!!!

Probably should actually add 180 lbs if they were smart. Forget the name of it, but it could be a business tax write off at/over 6k lbs.

I just don't get the point of it. Even the ICE version. It's such an impractical car. You can get pulled over for accelerating too fast. Obviously speeding. What's the point of these types of cars including Tesla? I'm mean are people taking these to the track? That's the only way to legally max out the performance of any of these types of cars.

I like old school cars that technically can go fast, but for me that would be looks more than speed. Teslas look like dog vomit and that Dodge does too.

I'd also take the Denali in a heartbeat. You can actually do things with it. I'm not fitting 3 kids and gear in that Dodge or any model of Tesla comfortably, including Cyber. My 13 year old is already 6'. I'm 6'3". As I've said, Tesla and that Charger and others like it are not practical cars unless you're a bachelor that does nothing manly or fun.
594   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Mar 6, 6:17am  

OK, so here is the choice, for me, anyway. Buy a new Subaru BRZ tS, around $37k before taxes. And yes, it comes standard with a manual. Or, pay about $83-90k before taxes, depending on the bells and whistles (Z51, front lift feature, etc.) to buy a Corvette Stingray 2LT. Only comes in an automatic. And no, did not price insurance yet.






595   Eman   2024 Mar 6, 7:14am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so here is the choice, for me, anyway. Buy a new Subaru BRZ tS, around $37k before taxes. And yes, it comes standard with a manual. Or, pay about $83-90k before taxes, depending on the bells and whistles (Z51, front lift feature, etc.) to buy a Corvette Stingray 2LT. Only comes in an automatic. And no, did not price insurance yet.








May I ask why the Subaru BRZ rather than Honda Civic Type R?
596   WookieMan   2024 Mar 6, 7:14am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so here is the choice, for me, anyway. Buy a new Subaru BRZ tS, around $37k before taxes. And yes, it comes standard with a manual. Or, pay about $83-90k before taxes, depending on the bells and whistles (Z51, front lift feature, etc.) to buy a Corvette Stingray 2LT. Only comes in an automatic. And no, did not price insurance yet.








I don't do 2 door cars. Had a 2 door Jeep when I was younger. Even without kids at that time is was shit. Being taller I could't do either car really. SUV or bust.

That said I assume the Subaru is AWD? Don't need to know where you live, but if it snows the Subaru is a no brainer financially and safety wise. I bought my house for the price of the Corvette and am $200k up. I don't spend a ton on depreciating products. So my vote would be the Subaru to save money. Plus manual and you can drive like an actual man.
597   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Mar 6, 7:19am  

WookieMan says

That said I assume the Subaru is AWD?

No, actually RWD. I do have an Subie Outback, AWD of course - great car but the GUI is a little slow. Agree about the manual. Looking at homes in Idaho. Currently in liberal shathole MD.
598   WookieMan   2024 Mar 6, 7:39am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

WookieMan says


That said I assume the Subaru is AWD?

No, actually RWD. I do have an Subie Outback, AWD of course - great car but the GUI is a little slow. Agree about the manual. Looking at homes in Idaho. Currently in liberal shathole MD.

I have no issues with Subarus. Multiple friends with decade old models still running. You're gonna get snow in Idaho, but if you have the Outback as a back up you'll be fine with the BRZ 7-9 months of the year roughly. Also depends where in Idaho. Not sure if they use salt out there, so that $40-50k price difference could literally eat the Corvette. I'm a cheapskate though and save and invest. The Corvette is cool looking, I won't lie. My vote is the Subaru.
599   Eman   2024 Mar 6, 7:57pm  

People, who buy the Cybertruck now, are either social media influencers, or have F U money. Everyone wraps their truck with a different color. Everyone wants to be “different”. High gloss red.



https://x.com/teslaconomics/status/1765563218330820730?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
600   WookieMan   2024 Mar 7, 4:53am  

Eman says

People, who buy the Cybertruck now, are either social media influencers, or have F U money. Everyone wraps their truck with a different color. Everyone wants to be “different”. High gloss red.

It's not a truck though. It's a glorified mid sized SUV with cramped seating, poor sight lines and no utility as usual with Tesla. It's fine production and deliveries have finally started, but there are few new sales. I've NEVER seen Tesla advertise. Any YouTube video I start has a Tesla ad now. That means new sales are way down on all models.

It's a toy. You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?

Teslas are fine cars, but I think they'll be a relic of the past in a decade. It's not a road tripping car, so no one besides a few outliers have high miles on any model. It's a commuter car. I was just out in Montana and didn't see one. You have to drive an hour (at least) to do fun stuff. I saw no charging stations. Full EV's are only practical for homebodies that go to work and do nothing else.
601   GNL   2024 Mar 7, 6:09am  

WookieMan says


You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?

I was going to mention the Hummer craze a few days ago. Yep, we saw lots of them and now...where the heck did they all go?

@Eman, that looks like a photoshop. I could be wrong though.
602   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 6:39am  

GNL says

WookieMan says



You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?

I was going to mention the Hummer craze a few days ago. Yep, we saw lots of them and now...where the heck did they all go?

Eman, that looks like a photoshop. I could be wrong though.

Check out the link I shared above for a short clip of the wrap from all angles.
603   zzyzzx   2024 Mar 7, 6:45am  

Eman says

Everyone wraps their truck with a different color.


Since the cheap grade of stainless steel used is already rusting, this is a smart move.
And I love stainless steel, even this cheaper grade is going to hold up way better then not stainless on salted roads.
604   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 6:53am  

zzyzzx says

Eman says


Everyone wraps their truck with a different color.


Since the cheap grade of stainless steel used is already rusting, this is a smart move.
And I love stainless steel, even this cheaper grade is going to hold up way better then not stainless on salted roads.

Oh god, so much misinformation out there. Wes, the lead Cybertruck engineer already debunked this.

Here’s a video Kim Java recently did on a farmer in Florida. Which appeared like rust, turned out wasn’t.

https://youtu.be/L-gPL7H7XHw?si=RtABQDQCGYXkfgTe
605   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 7:17am  

“You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around.”

Watch, Wookie will change the definition of “a farmer or construction worker” now to make his point.

Do you know why Tesla started to advertise this year and not before Wookie?
606   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 7:21am  

“It's a toy. You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around. Ever. It's like how the Hummer was. A bigger, impractical car with no utility that people thought made them look cool. How did that work out?”

I don’t care how impractical the Cybertruck is, but I’m willing to bet it will outsell the Hummer sales number.

People buy a truck or car for different reasons. Stop imposing your views on others. It’s not about YOU. Just like I don’t see myself ever driving a Yukon XL ever again, and possibly ICE cars.
607   WookieMan   2024 Mar 7, 7:53am  

Eman says

People buy a truck or car for different reasons. Stop imposing your views on others. It’s not about YOU. Just like I don’t see myself ever driving a Yukon XL ever again, and possibly ICE cars.

The reason can be dumb and expensive. Which is what Tesla is. I'd love a Ferrari. I'd never buy one or even take one for free. Frugality is a thing. Doesn't mean you're poor. You're smart. I want life experiences. Driving a car is a chore to get from A to B. It's why the South Park creators call Harley riders fags. They are.

Buy the cheapest, clean looking car you can. For me it's SUV's that beats out anything Tesla puts out. I get you're brand loyal, but it's about UTILITY for a vehicle. They're ugly, fast golf cart... great. I'd rather fit 5-7 people and tow 7,000lbs. To go have a good time and not sit at a charging station for an hour to get 100 miles and have to put people in the trunk.

No model of Tesla is practical for a family of 5. None. Now imagine driving 4-8 clients around? Nope. Most legacy manufactures cars aren't besides mini vans (ewww) or SUV's. Tesla has neither. So I'm not picking on Tesla, I pointing out the massive flaws. Know the battery tech. New sales are going to plummet with market saturation. They already are.

I'd be shorting Tesla stock if I was in that game. Fortunately I don't need to trade stocks. Or buy status cars. I'm living the smart life...
608   Eman   2024 Mar 7, 8:33am  

Their reason for purchase is different with yours. It works for them. They don’t care what you or anyone thinks. They make their own life choice and you make yours.

And….you’re wrong again by saying “You'll never see a farmer or construction worker driving one of those around.” WRONG AGAIN!
609   HeadSet   2024 Mar 7, 2:16pm  

zzyzzx says

Since the cheap grade of stainless steel used is already rusting,

Since when does stainless steel rust? I have used it in salt water for years, and I have never seen stainless steel rust. It will dull, but not rust. By the way, if a magnet sticks to it, it is not stainless steel.

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