8
2

Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ


 invite response                
2022 Dec 26, 9:49am   52,521 views  779 comments

by RWSGFY   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  

Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ

Allysia FinleyDec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET

Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.

Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”

Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.

New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”

Read More Life Science

• Where Was Biden’s SEC Sheriff on Sam Bankman-Fried? December 18, 2022
• Western Scientists Cheered On China’s Covid Repression December 11, 2022
• Hardly Anyone Is Buying Biden’s Bivalent Boosters December 4, 2022
Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.

The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.

Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.

Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.

Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”

A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.


https://archive.vn/pcjK3

« First        Comments 737 - 776 of 779       Last »     Search these comments

737   GNL   2024 May 12, 10:04am  

What a stupid assed vehicle.
738   richwicks   2024 May 12, 10:25am  

WookieMan says


Just a charging station for 30 minutes to get 85 miles and have to unhook your trailer to access the charger... wasting at least 60 minutes. Wave of the future. Lol. No non-gay is going to buy this truck. I tow weekly for the most part. It's literally unusable besides being a fag magnet with no actual utility.


I'm not defending this vehicle. Most people that own trucks where I live, don't need them.

I think EVs are a disaster, and I'm probably North America's authority on DIN and 15118 DC fast charging standards. I've worked on this shit, I know it innately, and I left it in disgust. I'm probably the only asshole that knows how EXI encoding works, including the stupid asshole "architects" that mandated it as a standard. I spent 2 years going through all the bugs of the actual "example implementation" and completely reversed engineered it because the RFI was bullshit that didn't explain it. In fact the RFI was so fucking wrong, that their example was incorrect, I decoded it and implemented it using their standard coding model that was released as Javascript - totally unusable in a real work environment, too slow. Total fucking garbage gets made as standards because everybody is too pussy to admit they have no idea how the fuck it works, and if they did understand it, they would certainly reject it. It's all fraud.

I are a enginerd. I look at these disasters of design, and wonder, what the fuck am I doing? I'm not solving a problem. I'm helping create one. Electric vehicles are not a solution, at least not yet. I know this is a boondoggle. Sure, we can make them, but it doesn't solve a problem. The problem exists because the governments have mandated "this is a problem", it's not an actual problem. CO2 is not destroying the planet, and even if it was, electric vehicles do NOTHING to solve this problem, if anything, they consume MORE fossil fuels.

Keep it stupid simple, or keep it simple, stupid - that's still my motto. Logic and thinking is tough enough without adding stupidity into the equation.

I can be a CTO, but I can't be a fraud, that's a limiting factor for me. I'm not stupid enough to lie through ignorance, and I'm not evil enough to lie intentionally. Imagine, competence is a limiting factor now. A doctor that properly recognized that the mRNA "vaccines" didn't work, or ventilators didn't work, or that possibly steroids or Ivermectin DID work, they got fired. That's my position. I still have a duty to all you fuckers to tell the truth, much to my detriment.

There is no reward for being right, but... I can't be wrong either. I mean, I can't lie, and if I determine everybody else is wrong, I will call them out on it, and the weight of the world drops down on me. There's no support for that! There's a thread here how our society won't survive incompetency, and I see it everywhere, and if I spot it too soon, oh, well, I'm not a team player in the fraud. "Oh, your company is all bullshit, this is why" "Shhhhhhh - we're making money from the government, shut the fuck up!". Hahahaha.

I just can't do the Asch Conformity test and agree. I can't. I'm in the 10%. I'm in that tiny percentage that if I see the longest line, no matter how many people say it's not the longest line, I still will because I don't trust any of you, I trust my own senses and ability. You'd think this would be a strength, it absolutely is not, even when I'm right, and sometimes I'm wrong as well. I'm right more than I am wrong. I was right about the Iraq War, the Afghanistan war, the Syrian war, the bombing of Libya, the Ukraine war, the Gaza war. The last two EVENTUALLY you will realize I'm correct about, after years of you shitting on me. There will be no apologies. There never are.

You might properly see this as rambling and far off subject, but I see an ENTIRE industry in a dead end, and it's obvious to me it is. I might as well talk to a brick wall as to try to convince people they are barking up the wrong tree. I just thought people didn't know, I just didn't realize propaganda reached this far and this wide. Even into science and technology it reaches. Independent thinkers are hated even when they are right, can save billions of wasted dollars, they are despised and I'm one of them.
739   socal2   2024 May 15, 5:54pm  

I finally got my free 1 month trial of Tesla's "Full Self Driving" this past weekend.

I had some pretty high expectations going in - and they were greatly exceeded. I've been driving around all week running my normal errands and haven't had a single intervention for safety. Just a couple for navigation where it wasn't taking my preferred route. It drives so smooth and natural. It also accelerates very nicely and aggressively. My only complaint is that Biden's Commies running NHTSA forced Tesla nerf the FSD to come to complete stops at stop signs. Easy enough to push through with a tap on the gas.

From a busy Costco parking lot with cars and pedestrians everywhere, I just tell it to drive home and it figures its way out of the parking lot and drives me all the way home and parks in front of the house.

This shit is the real deal.

Can't wait to take it up to the LA office tomorrow. Will see if it can make it door to door without any interventions.
741   Eric Holder   2024 May 30, 9:35am  

socal2 says

Can't wait to take it up to the LA office tomorrow. Will see if it can make it door to door without any interventions.


It's been two weeks. We're starting to worry.
742   WookieMan   2024 May 30, 9:59am  

socal2 says

Can't wait to take it up to the LA office tomorrow. Will see if it can make it door to door without any interventions.

That shouldn't be a thought when driving a vehicle. Time is money. Upfront cost of the vehicle is money. I get gas is expensive in CA, but it's not in most of the country in line with inflation. 5 year time span a ICE hybrid will save more money. I just want you EV guys to admit they're just fun to drive.

This isn't meant as a dig. I prefer to drive my golf cart around town. 0-25 is about 2 seconds and that's the max speed limit in town. It's fun. But it was fucking expensive to toss a Lipo battery in there for cruising around town. Looking to upgrade motor, controller and lift it. I'll be the first to admit electric is not practical having a mini version. It's expensive. I don't care about self driving as I don't trust other drivers. I'm a geezer driver. Only accident I've been in would have been unavoidable t-bone crash. Bitch just pulled out with 20' to spare at best. Tesla ain't stopping that crash.

From then on I became an extremely aware active driver. It's not about self driving and other sensors that can and will fail. You need to actively drive. That goes for ICE drivers as well. Computers and electronics fail all the time. I know what I can see and do driving a car.
743   RWSGFY   2024 May 30, 10:09am  

Gas is expensive in CA, you say? Wait till you learn how much a kWh of electricity costs.
744   Blue   2024 May 30, 10:45am  

Eric Holder says


socal2 says


Can't wait to take it up to the LA office tomorrow. Will see if it can make it door to door without any interventions.


It's been two weeks. We're starting to worry.


Upgraded with latest version of self driving sw. It still does few silly mistakes. It did two mistakes while going to the nearby park. On a two lanes street it should have been on the left to go straight. But it was on the right only, oops it was too late then it went straight after the stop sign instead of taking right!!
At the park, it pulled over and saw trash can on the street, when I decided not to go to the crowded park, I have added my next stop. Instead of pulling back to avoid trash can, it went forward and hit the trash can just before I applied breaks and pulled in reverse.
The point is, it’s still evolving and needs some time to get better like an other technology. Meanwhile drivers must watch out all the time.
745   WookieMan   2024 Jun 3, 6:55am  

https://youtu.be/bfGn2korYXU?si=UETcrvmbeU4Sdob1

Just dropping this here. I've been warning you guys. It's not my line of work but my wife's. We talk about it daily and I know many, many, many engineers and government employees. The government is going to tax the living shit out of you EV drivers. It already takes 5 years to not pay for gas because of the high price of the vehicle itself. You still pay for electric or if you double down on stupid put in solar panels.

At some point people eventually figure out their grade school math and realize this is not possible. Or they'll have to suffer with shitty roads. I'd bet 80% of EV drivers don't even know what MFT is. This is going to get funny.
746   GNL   2024 Jun 3, 7:14am  

How many “silly mistakes” does it take to cost 1 life? Have the Tesla savants done the math on that?
747   HeadSet   2024 Jun 3, 8:11am  

WookieMan says

This is going to get funny.

No one will be laughing. While everyone is distracted by debating the economics of ICE versus EV, they miss that the goal of the rulers is to eliminate private cars completely by 2035 or so. Mandates on kill switches, self-drive, and taxes will lower the utility and raise the cost of ownership to unaffordable levels.
748   socal2   2024 Jun 3, 8:17am  

Eric Holder says

socal2 says


Can't wait to take it up to the LA office tomorrow. Will see if it can make it door to door without any interventions.


It's been two weeks. We're starting to worry.


Oh - it worked like a charm. Have taken 2 more longish road trips since without any disengagements for safety reasons. The only issue for me is it is still a bit timid at stop signs (thanks to NHTSA forcing complete stops on it) and it sometimes does not navigate my preferred routes.

Lane changing on freeways is awesome.

My trial expires this weekend and I plan on paying $99/month to extend it at least through the Summer as I have more family trips planned and some out of town guests coming to visit.
749   socal2   2024 Jun 3, 8:26am  

GNL says

How many “silly mistakes” does it take to cost 1 life? Have the Tesla savants done the math on that?


FSD will undoubtedly cause some accidents and will probably get some people killed along the way. The Financial garbage media and Leftists who hate Musk will trumpet every accident to the moon.

Meanwhile, Tesla continues to add BILLIONS and BILLIONS of safe miles every few months on FSD - already showing that "Supervised" FSD is 11X safer than the average human driver.

FSD is already 99% there, it is the additional .999 (march of 9's) that is most tricky to train for all the edge cases.

The data collection is already impressive, but by the end of this year - it will be very difficult of regulators and insurance companies to deny how much more safety FSD adds to the average driver.

FSD will become as mainstream as basic cruise control and airbags in every car within 10 years IMO.
750   WookieMan   2024 Jun 3, 11:19am  

socal2 says

FSD is 11X safer than the average human driver.

We're talking math on this. I've driven over 1M miles in my lifetime with one accident. One that a Tesla could NOT have avoided and I veered in the opposite direction of what a computer would think so as not to hit the passenger side. Because I could see the passenger in the front. Tesla or any FSD can't do that.

Maybe I'm special. I knew there was no avoiding the collision. I don't care what vehicle you're in. The Tesla would have just applied brakes. It's not about Tesla owners, it's about the people that are in other cars that get killed. We all know airbags are so safe... said no one.

I made the decision when the bitch pulled out in front of me to hit her truck and tore it off. Hindsight is 20/20, but time slows down when you're in that situation if you're not on a phone or messing with the radio. I don't do either in a car ever. All that shit can wait. I hit her going 40mph. No airbag deployment. Everyone walked away. I actually was able to get one of those old school bras for the front bumper and the car looked totally fine for $200. For my age I got $4k for medical (not hurt at all) and my parents got $4k for repairs that cost $200. Not happening that way with an EV. Both cars would have been totaled.
751   stereotomy   2024 Jun 3, 11:27am  

I had an experience similar to Wookie - this crazy woman backs out into traffic with a full load of children in a minivan. I'm about to go around her, but she panics and steps on the gas so that she's about to have me broadside the minivan. I had to jump the curb, mow down road signs just to avoid her enough to not kill the kids in back. For my efforts, my insurance company tried to frame me, but witness and police statements cleared my ass of liability.
752   WookieMan   2024 Jun 3, 11:33am  

HeadSet says

Mandates on kill switches, self-drive, and taxes will lower the utility and raise the cost of ownership to unaffordable levels.

That's why I keep and maintain my ICE cars as well as I can. I have an EV in the form of a golf cart. EV owners have zero fucking clue what taxes and maintenance expenses are coming their way. That's besides getting raped out the gate with prices of them. We're barely aging out of generation 1 for EV cars. Hell a hybrid Prius isn't event that old.

Hoping to push 500k miles with the Armada. I do need suspension work, but any car with 232k miles will need that EV or not. Hands down the most solid car longevity wise I or anyone in my family has ever owned. Tires, brakes and oil changes. Assuming someone made an EV of that size at the time it would have been $120k easy. $35k is what I got it for. Tows 9k. 400 miles a tank. 7 passengers comfortably. I literally saved a lifetime of gas buying that over some over priced EV.

I don't want a "fun to drive" car. I need multiple utility for my vehicle. There's not a single full EV that provides what I need. It's not even close. EV's are feel good toys.
753   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Jun 3, 3:25pm  

RWSGFY says


Gas is expensive in CA, you say? Wait till you learn how much a kWh of electricity costs.

I track these expenses. The past month I paid an average of $4.87 per gallon in the Bay Area.

My last PGE bill the "average" rate was $0.46 per kwhr. The tier-2 usage is $0.538 per kwhr. If I charged my plug in hybrid at home, those kwhr would be on top of the other kwhr we consume, so Tier-2 at $0.538 per kwhr.

Without plugging in, at we average 55 mpg. At $4.87 per gallon it's about 11.2 center per mile. If I believe the "specs" of 8.8 kwhr/mile for the Prius, at $0.538 per kwhr it's 18.9 cents per mile. With this arithmetic the gas price ought to be more than $9 per gallon to be the same or cheaper as the cost to charge the f*cker at home.

I had checked this a few years ago, when our Tier-2 rate was 37 cents per kwhr. Back then, charging at home would have been equivalent to $6 per gallon. We approached $6 but never got there. We're back down to $4.87.

It's because like RWSGFY says, our electric rates are going up faster than the gasoline prices.

The utility (PG&E) will provide a small discount to charge overnight if we agree to pay a higher rate (66 cents per kwhr) during "peak" hours. Ha ha ha!
755   WookieMan   2024 Jun 6, 5:43am  

B.A.C.A.H. says

It's because like RWSGFY says, our electric rates are going up faster than the gasoline prices.

Isn't CA testing out taxing EV mileage currently for MFT? Pretty sure I read that somewhere. Said it was coming and I think it's here.

Funny thing is I have a Tesla sitting in my driveway currently sitting next to my Armada. It's a car for babies the Tesla that is. I don't care how fun they are to drive, at 6'3" it ain't for me. I could flop my dick on the roof of the car.... And I don't care how "safe" Tesla says their cars are, if I t-boned the car in my driveway it's toast at 45mph+, you're not living.
756   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Jul 1, 6:46am  

Wow! Who here on PatNet said this was a problem?

And who here on PatNet said that was bullshit or tried to deflect with bullshit of their own?
.


Of the 211 developers surveyed by Xendee, a California-based software company, 75% said that electric grid limitations are among the biggest roadblock to building EV charging infrastructure. The total cost of the infrastructure was a problem for 63% of the respondents, and permitting delays were cited by 53% of those surveyed.

Many of Xendee’s clients, according to Utility Dive, have resorted to installing gas- or diesel- powered generators to run their charging stations.

The Biden administration has gone all in on a future of EV's, but that looks unlikely to happen, given poor planning and market forces.


https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/three-out-four-ev-charging-developers-say-they-cant-get-enough-electricity

Where's all that magically supercheap solar power and windmill shit that was to make sure this would never happen?

Where the flying fuck is all this money for the 'green transition' really going?

C'mon Greentards and Teslatards! WTF happened?
757   WookieMan   2024 Jul 1, 7:24am  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Wow! Who here on PatNet said this was a problem?

You did. I did. EV's are math and I'm not even good at it. They were never viable if you factor in the cost of similar cars. And you can't do shit with them. The CT is going to be an absolute flop for Tesla.

Millennials are having kids. I don't want a truck to fit 3 kids on a bench seat. They build sedans. NO one is building a large SUV because it would be $150k for a fucking car I can get for $60k. The fact they haven't even done a minivan is hysterical. You'd get the MILF buying them and the cucked men. I don't mind Elon, but he's failed in this regard with tiny cars for baby men. Get a real fucking SUV and I'd maybe be a customer.
758   GNL   2024 Aug 14, 11:37am  

MORE RIDICULOUSNESS VIA TESLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-AiuQy4ALc
759   Eric Holder   2024 Aug 15, 9:01am  

WookieMan says


The fact they haven't even done a minivan is hysterical.


ModelX IS a minivan. Down to middle doors designed in a way to prevent kids from hitting cars parked next to it.
760   WookieMan   2024 Aug 15, 9:14am  

Eric Holder says

ModelX IS a minivan. Down to middle doors designed in a way to prevent kids from hitting cars parked next to it.

Haven't looked at it. What's the towing capacity? Likely nothing. Not looking it up. Full sized SUV's are missing from the EV market.

Also if your kid is that stupid to hit another car you should probably parent better (not you specifically). Most full sized SUV's are already built on truck a chassis. Make the CT a full sized SUV body and add a third row. You can still put stuff in the back. Still tow. You either have a truck or full sized SUV where I live. I've yet to see a CT on the road where I live as well.

Problem as I've said is it's going to cost $120k plus with no range. A 10 hour road trip turns into 13-14 hours easy, especially towing a camper which you'll likely have to unhitch to get into a charging station. I've yet to see a pull though in my region. The charging might be there in CA, but I've yet to see it around me. It's all 20 miles in the opposite direction I'm going.
761   Eric Holder   2024 Aug 15, 10:09am  

WookieMan says

What's the towing capacity?


Who cares? It's a minivan. Nobody buys these for towing.
762   socal2   2024 Aug 15, 10:25am  

Just got one of my sales engineers in Idaho to buy a Tesla Model Y. He turned in his tricked out Ford Maverick (poor man's Raptor) and he is absolutely loving it so far. He told this morning he is shocked at how awesome it is for road trips from Boise to Idaho Falls.

That said - he does have a free month trial of the latest Full Self Driving, so he has the latest and greatest version.

In addition to driving a couple thousand miles a month for work, the dude is in the army reserves, hunts, skiis and travels all over the mountain west. He is 6'7" tall too and said he has plenty of room.
763   Eric Holder   2024 Aug 15, 10:51am  

WookieMan says

Also if your kid is that stupid to hit another car you should probably parent better (not you specifically).


Maybe. But there is no denying that minivans are popular because of their sliding doors, not despite of them. Peace of mind is peace of mind.
764   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Aug 15, 10:57am  

socal2 says

Just got one of my sales engineers in Idaho to buy a Tesla Model Y. He turned in his tricked out Ford Maverick (poor man's Raptor) and he is absolutely loving it so far. He told this morning he is shocked at how awesome it is for road trips from Boise to Idaho Falls.

That said - he does have a free month trial of the latest Full Self Driving, so he has the latest and greatest version.

In addition to driving a couple thousand miles a month for work, the dude is in the army reserves, hunts, skiis and travels all over the mountain west. He is 6'7" tall too and said he has plenty of room.


Wait until he needs to charge it somewhere out of the way...which is most of Idaho.

Wait until winter comes and the battery can barely charge enough like before.
765   Eric Holder   2024 Aug 15, 11:26am  

socal2 says


Just got one of my sales engineers in Idaho to buy a Tesla Model Y. He turned in his tricked out Ford Maverick (poor man's Raptor) and he is absolutely loving it so far. He told this morning he is shocked at how awesome it is for road trips from Boise to Idaho Falls.

That said - he does have a free month trial of the latest Full Self Driving, so he has the latest and greatest version.

In addition to driving a couple thousand miles a month for work, the dude is in the army reserves, hunts, skiis and travels all over the mountain west. He is 6'7" tall too and said he has plenty of room.


One of my relatives who's very ga-ga on everything Tesla (and has been uninvited from pretty much everywhere because all he does at parties is talking about FSD this and FSD that until everybody's eyes roll into their skulls) never takes his AWD Model Y on skiing trips. This is when trusty 4Runner comes out of the garage. I think he did once take his MY to Utah. Don't know what happened there, but it's been 4Runner from then on.
766   WookieMan   2024 Aug 15, 11:41am  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Wait until he needs to charge it somewhere out of the way...which is most of Idaho.

The country.
767   GNL   2024 Aug 15, 11:54am  

Haha, you’re bragging that you hooked another sucker?
768   socal2   2024 Aug 15, 1:32pm  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Wait until he needs to charge it somewhere out of the way...which is most of Idaho.

Wait until winter comes and the battery can barely charge enough like before.


Dude is an engineer and has done his research.

This is a great site where you can map your drives to figure out what charging you need. You can adjust for temperature, weather, weight in car, model and battery charge level.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

My other Sales Engineer in remote Oregon has had his Tesla for almost 2 years now (40,000 miles driven so far) and has had no problems driving all over the Mountain and Northwest in all weather conditions.
769   socal2   2024 Aug 15, 1:37pm  

GNL says

Haha, you’re bragging that you hooked another sucker?


He's been thanking me all week saying "I should have done this sooner".

It was after his family vacation last month to the Olympic National Park (8+ hour drive from Boise) followed by an unexpected business trip to Eastern Idaho the Monday he returned from his vacation that finally got him to pull the trigger.

Difficult to express how nice autopilot is for long trips. You arrive at your destination so much more refreshed and comfortable.

Dude is also going to save a ton of money on gas since he can expense his business miles and his electricity at home is dirt cheap.
770   Ceffer   2024 Aug 15, 1:40pm  

Hydrogen powered vehicles will put the faux green electrics in the junkyard. Plus, they are the truly environmentally friendly ones (exhaust is water). They have been suppressed by the usual suspects for the usual reasons, but are now starting production through Asia and Toyota.
771   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Aug 15, 7:26pm  

Ceffer says

Plus, they are the truly environmentally friendly ones




Do you realize you just quoted some level one dumbassery from Shrub?

Cars that will run on hydrogen fuel produce only water, not exhaust fumes….


How is hydrogen made? Don't say 'electrolysis' because commercially produced hydrogen mostly is not, but through processes like pyrolysis of natural gas or steam reforming of coal.

But either way, it costs too much. It is not a source of energy but merely a carrier.

From an extensive article on this topic by Robert Zubrin:

The trouble is that making hydrogen requires more energy than the hydrogen so produced can provide. Hydrogen, therefore, is not a source of energy. It simply is a carrier of energy.

And it is, as we shall see, an extremely poor one.

The wholesale cost of commercial grade liquid hydrogen (made the cheap way, from hydrocarbons) shipped to large customers in the United States is about $6 per kilogram. High purity hydrogen made from electrolysis for scientific applications costs considerably more. Dispensed in compressed gas cylinders to retail customers, the current price of commercial grade hydrogen is about $100 per kilogram. For comparison, a kilogram of hydrogen contains about the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. This means that even if hydrogen cars were available and hydrogen stations existed to fuel them, no one with the power to choose otherwise would ever buy such vehicles. This fact alone makes the hydrogen economy a non-starter in a free society.


2007 prices in those cost figures ^^

The hydrogen refueling stations for the Toyota Murai currently charge $36/kg. A drastic increase from $17/kg from the year before.

So either significant improvement has been achieved since Zubrin wrote his article in hydrogen production, distribution & storage, or it is being subsidized.

It costs $200 to fill up a Murai. And it only gets at most 400 miles out of all that. Usually it avgs at 300 miles. So it is STILL uneconomical as hell.

Murai 2024 fueling costs source: https://www.topspeed.com/how-much-costs-to-refill-hydrogen-powered-toyota-mirai/

Zubrin then goes on to thoroughly detail other costs, like metal embrittlement of storage and distribution equipment, costs from pressurization or cryogenic storage, etc.

Oh, and like EVs, it can be quite polluting. Just front loaded before it gets put into your car, is all.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax
772   Ceffer   2024 Aug 15, 7:58pm  

I'm not so sure. You have to realize they give us what they want and slander what they don't want, including nuclear power. It's standard operating procedure for technology that can replace the Rockefeller/Globalist paradigms for the plans they make for energy fails.

However, I will look into it and see if a deep dive reveals anything, but nothing I have read indicates that it is either that expensive or that compromising. Santa Cruz of all places has a hydrogen vehicle filling station. Also, as economies of scale take place and distribution channels improve, stuff gets cheaper.

Gasoline is a carrier of energy, too, as is uranium and lithium batteries, and they also have associated costs, so I don't really get the 'carrier of energy' angle.

Trying to scope the perspective of "The New Atlantis" is not clear to me either.

"The journal's name is taken from Francis Bacon's utopian novella New Atlantis, which the journal's editors describe as a "fable of a society living with the benefits and challenges of advanced science and technology".[4] An editorial in the inaugural issue states that the aim of the journal is "to help us avoid the extremes of euphoria and despair that new technologies too often arouse; and to help us judge when mobilizing our technological prowess is sensible or necessary, and when the preservation of things that count requires limiting the kinds of technological power that would lessen, cheapen, or ultimately destroy us."

That's quite an editorial position, and not one that seems promising. Helping us to avoid what, exactly? Why do I need help avoiding? Sounds like biased fact checking by another name.
773   WookieMan   2024 Aug 15, 8:29pm  

socal2 says

It was after his family vacation last month to the Olympic National Park (8+ hour drive from Boise)

How many stops? I can drive to Duluth, MN from where I live ~7 hours without stopping. Leave by 5am and I'm up there for lunch. 100% cannot do that in an EV. I'm talking a V8 full sized SUV. That's for sure 2 charging stops. If you can find them in that part of Wisconsin. 5 people and luggage for a week. No EV can do that.

You guys live on an island West of the Rockies. It's not reality in most of the country.
774   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2024 Aug 15, 9:27pm  

my neighbor got cybertruck. it has nice tech. all wheels turn, self driving (although not trusting it), wicked fast. we took it to Utah with trailer, it used about 70% charge before we got to charge station. cost of driving it is about half or less of gas when charging at stations. it has its positives. i personally like ford lightning more, but it’s way too expensive.

don’t know
how long battery will last, thats big unknown. i know laptop batteries go out after several years and don’t hold any charge. hopefully cars are better.

cautious me says hybrids are best bang for the buck these days.
775   socal2   2024 Aug 16, 10:15am  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

how long battery will last, thats big unknown. i know laptop batteries go out after several years and don’t hold any charge. hopefully cars are better.


Tesla provides an 8 year or 100,000 mile warranty on batteries. They have the best and most sophisticated thermal system keeping the batteries healthy unlike the crap Nissan Leafs.

One of my clients has an 11 year old Model S with 180,000 miles and his battery has only had about 10% degradation.
776   socal2   2024 Aug 16, 10:32am  

WookieMan says

How many stops? I can drive to Duluth, MN from where I live ~7 hours without stopping. Leave by 5am and I'm up there for lunch.


Most human beings couldn't or wouldn't want to do that level of driving without stopping.

That level of driving would require about 2 stops for 15 minutes to charge with a Tesla. So it would add at least 30 minutes to your drive.

A Tesla would get you to Duluth by 1:00PM and you will be much more rested and relaxed using Autopilot.

« First        Comments 737 - 776 of 779       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions   gaiste