patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,268,530 comments by 15,170 users - AmericanKulak, Maga_Chaos_Monkey, Misc, Patrick, PeopleUnited online now
Colonizing Mars Has Exciting Possibilities
invite response
2023 Apr 5, 4:31am 2,124 views 44 comments
« First « Previous Comments 15 - 44 of 44 Search these comments
18
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 4:46pm
Ask and thou shalt receive
https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1940365HeadSet says
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 4:46pm
What, no 3 titted woman?
Ask and thou shalt receive
https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1940365HeadSet says
19
socal2
2023 Apr 5, 5:03pm
I think the first 20+ years of Mars "colonization" will be done mostly by Tesla robots and boring machines. Humans will live on Mars for short stints mostly underground.
Elon Musk ventures in both technologies (not to mention rocketry) is leading the world.
Elon Musk ventures in both technologies (not to mention rocketry) is leading the world.
20
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 5:05pm
AmericanKulak
2023 Apr 5, 5:05pm
socal2 says
Planetary Colonization is vastly overplayed.
Makes more sense to hollow out an asteroid or use low G planets to build big structures.
The most important thing about getting off the Earth is to eliminate the possibility that all humanity will be dominated by a NWO and avoiding other Fermi Filters, like a massive asteroid impact or another Siberan Eruption that would be 100x worse than Krakatoa.
Elon Musk ventures in both technologies (not to mention rocketry) is leading the world.
Planetary Colonization is vastly overplayed.
Makes more sense to hollow out an asteroid or use low G planets to build big structures.
The most important thing about getting off the Earth is to eliminate the possibility that all humanity will be dominated by a NWO and avoiding other Fermi Filters, like a massive asteroid impact or another Siberan Eruption that would be 100x worse than Krakatoa.
21
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:09pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:09pm
HeadSet says
I'm just quoting from one of the best films ever made - RepoMan from 1984, by Alex Cox. He's criminally unknown, he did Three Businessmen as well. I recommend both films.
He also did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, bet you heard of that.
I used to be a film buff, and every now and then, I'd trip across somebody that was worthy of recognition - he's one of them.
He's also made complete garbage, Repo Chick was crap - but you might have a different opinion, and that's fine.
richwicks says
I had a lobotomy in the end!!
Most lobotomies are in the head. :-)
I'm just quoting from one of the best films ever made - RepoMan from 1984, by Alex Cox. He's criminally unknown, he did Three Businessmen as well. I recommend both films.
He also did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, bet you heard of that.
I used to be a film buff, and every now and then, I'd trip across somebody that was worthy of recognition - he's one of them.
He's also made complete garbage, Repo Chick was crap - but you might have a different opinion, and that's fine.
22
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:19pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:19pm
I know of course!
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it. Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Tenpoundbass says
NO! We don't know what gravity is. Nobody does. We can see it exists, we don't understand that, and yes, I know we've (supposedly?) found the Higgs boson. We're an amazingly ignorant species. Nobody knows fuck all. We're all fucking stupid and ignorant.
Tenpoundbass says
I'm aware, but it's practically straight down to the center of the Earth. We might be off by a few tiny bits of a 1000th of a degree. This just creates instability, and probably an eventual earthquake.
Tenpoundbass says
It provides acceleration, and a large enough centrifuge is practically indistinguistable from gravity.
Tenpoundbass says
Yes, the Coriolis effect is reversed, upside down. That's it. You're still experiencing constant acceleration.
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it. Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Tenpoundbass says
That fused entanglement of positively and negatively charged atoms pulling and pushing at each other. We pull the Earth to us as much as the Earth pulls us to it.
NO! We don't know what gravity is. Nobody does. We can see it exists, we don't understand that, and yes, I know we've (supposedly?) found the Higgs boson. We're an amazingly ignorant species. Nobody knows fuck all. We're all fucking stupid and ignorant.
Tenpoundbass says
Gravity is not just pulling us down, it is pulling us to center the nucleolus of the Earth. And since Earth is not perfectly flat, that down isn't always straight down, it is bent or not as forceful in other parts of forceful in other parts of the planet.
I'm aware, but it's practically straight down to the center of the Earth. We might be off by a few tiny bits of a 1000th of a degree. This just creates instability, and probably an eventual earthquake.
Tenpoundbass says
The only thing a Centrifuge does, is serve as simile to demonstrate what Gravity is doing to mass, without taking into account the counter lift that smaller mass being attracted to the larger mass gives back.
It provides acceleration, and a large enough centrifuge is practically indistinguistable from gravity.
Tenpoundbass says
Where as spinning is actually the opposite of gravity
Yes, the Coriolis effect is reversed, upside down. That's it. You're still experiencing constant acceleration.
23
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:37pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:37pm
richwicks says
Correct, that is part of the General Theory of Relativity.
richwicks says
Yes, angular momentum. Fun stuff in high school physics class. Newton's 3rd Law of motion come into play.
Another way to get a simulated gravity in a spaceship would be to have the ship constantly accelerate at 1g. When halfway to the destination, turn around and decelerate at 1g. Just need to develop a propulsion system that can continually provide 1g worth of thrust.
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it.
Correct, that is part of the General Theory of Relativity.
richwicks says
Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Yes, angular momentum. Fun stuff in high school physics class. Newton's 3rd Law of motion come into play.
Another way to get a simulated gravity in a spaceship would be to have the ship constantly accelerate at 1g. When halfway to the destination, turn around and decelerate at 1g. Just need to develop a propulsion system that can continually provide 1g worth of thrust.
24
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:43pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:43pm
HeadSet says
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order. Our sun would not be producing light, it would be producing gamma rays.
HeadSet says
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
richwicks says
Gravity is acceleration, or indistinguishable from it.
Correct, that is part of the General Theory of Relativity.
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order. Our sun would not be producing light, it would be producing gamma rays.
HeadSet says
richwicks says
Centrifugal "force" is also. I once did the math to calculate it.
Yes, angular momentum. Fun stuff in high school physics class. Newton's 3rd Law of motion come into play.
Another way to get a simulated gravity in a spaceship would be to have the ship constantly accelerate at 1g. When halfway to the destination, turn around and decelerate at 1g. Just need to develop a propulsion system that can continually provide 1g worth of thrust.
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
25
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:48pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:48pm
richwicks says
Ha Ha!! Do not forget about the part "in an inertial reference frame."
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order.
Ha Ha!! Do not forget about the part "in an inertial reference frame."
26
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:54pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 5:54pm
HeadSet says
I do not think that acceleration is equivalent to gravity. I think this is a breakdown and error in General Relativity. They can't be the same because the universe would be continually speeding up from our point of view, and it's not.
Quantum physics and relativity can't be reconciled, because both are wrong. Good models, but they are MODELS. Gravity is some fundamental force or something. We don't know. We simply don't know at this point, maybe we can never know.
richwicks says
Well, he's KIND of right. We're not experiencing increasing time dialation though are we? If gravity was really the same thing as constant acceleration, we'd be travelling at 99.999999999% the speed of light in short order.
Ha Ha!! Do not forget about the part "in an inertial reference frame."
I do not think that acceleration is equivalent to gravity. I think this is a breakdown and error in General Relativity. They can't be the same because the universe would be continually speeding up from our point of view, and it's not.
Quantum physics and relativity can't be reconciled, because both are wrong. Good models, but they are MODELS. Gravity is some fundamental force or something. We don't know. We simply don't know at this point, maybe we can never know.
27
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:55pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 5:55pm
richwicks says
I had to google that "Orion" drive.
A ship propelled by atomic bomb blasts behind it? Is this made by the Acme Corporation? Isn't an atomic bomb detonation just a point source of heat that hits several million degrees? Without air to heat up to send into a shock wave an atomic explosion in space would have no pushing force, just inverse square rule heat propagation.
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
I had to google that "Orion" drive.
A ship propelled by atomic bomb blasts behind it? Is this made by the Acme Corporation? Isn't an atomic bomb detonation just a point source of heat that hits several million degrees? Without air to heat up to send into a shock wave an atomic explosion in space would have no pushing force, just inverse square rule heat propagation.
28
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:00pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:00pm
HeadSet says
Haha, yep! But not ACME, US government - bunch of insane fuckers. Their bullshit works just as well as what Willie E. Coyote purchased..
HeadSet says
It produces a lot of energy, and force = mass x acceleration. It would work as a propulsion system, shoving out radioactive particles to propel it.
It's doable but it was abandoned because (officially) it would have been too detrimental to life on Earth.
richwicks says
Well, there's that crazy Orion drive. I hope we never use it.
I had to google that "Orion" drive.
A ship propelled by atomic bomb blasts behind it? Is this made by the Acme Corporation?
Haha, yep! But not ACME, US government - bunch of insane fuckers. Their bullshit works just as well as what Willie E. Coyote purchased..
HeadSet says
Isn't an atomic bomb detonation just a point source of heat that hits several million degrees? Without air to heat up to send into a shock wave an atomic explosion in space would have no pushing force, just inverse square rule heat propagation.
It produces a lot of energy, and force = mass x acceleration. It would work as a propulsion system, shoving out radioactive particles to propel it.
It's doable but it was abandoned because (officially) it would have been too detrimental to life on Earth.
29
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:05pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:05pm
richwicks says
Still just a point source of heat, no appreciable mass to accelerate. Even then, it is supposed to push the ship from behind, like putting TNT behind a dragster to blow it across the finish line.
It produces a lot of energy, and Force = mass x acceleration.
Still just a point source of heat, no appreciable mass to accelerate. Even then, it is supposed to push the ship from behind, like putting TNT behind a dragster to blow it across the finish line.
30
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:09pm
richwicks
2023 Apr 5, 6:09pm
HeadSet says
It works well in an atmosphere, that was the mass.
Like I said, this was fucking insane. This was back when our government did insane things that weren't obviously insane to the general public.
richwicks says
It produces a lot of energy, and Force = mass x acceleration.
Still just a point source of heat, no appreciable mass to accelerate. Even then, it is supposed to push the ship from behind, like putting TNT behind a dragster to blow it across the finish line.
It works well in an atmosphere, that was the mass.
Like I said, this was fucking insane. This was back when our government did insane things that weren't obviously insane to the general public.
31
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:13pm
HeadSet
2023 Apr 5, 6:13pm
richwicks says
The whole discussion was about use in space. Well, I guess Ralph Cramden can use Orion to really send Alice to the Moon.
It works well in an atmosphere
The whole discussion was about use in space. Well, I guess Ralph Cramden can use Orion to really send Alice to the Moon.
32
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 6:27pm
Tenpoundbass
2023 Apr 5, 6:27pm
Gravity is NOT acceleration. In fact Einstein argued that in free fall you're NOT actually under any forces. Falling off the Empire State Building is indistinguishable aside from breathing air, to free falling in space. Sure you can calculate acceleration to solve other unrelated equations. But once you reach terminal velocity you're not accelerating. In relation to the mass you're being attracted to. In our case the one unit of Gravity. Which would be calculated differently depending the size of the mass' effect on other smaller masses. Like the two baseballs taking a couple weeks to be attracted to each other. Whereas a bowling ball would attract a Ping-Pong ball in hours at one meter away in the vacuum of space.
There's acceleration going on, but acceleration isn't the whole picture. I'm sure a spinning rocket ship might relive some maladies caused by zero gravity, but I bet it wont be enough to mitigate every affliction of an Artificial Travel through space. Rather than having blood in your veins just floating around and going nowhere. Putting them in the Tornado carnival ride is just going to suck their blood down their feet. What are they going to do, a few hours on their feet, then turn upside down and do a few hours on their head?
If we ever develop the technology where we can intercept a large 100 klm Asteroid, and stir it away. Then we could stir it into orbit outside the moon while we figure out how to harness it as a space ship suitable for human space travel. We would have to study what it does to the Earth's tidal flow with the increased gravitational pulls.
It takes Real Estate to travel the galaxy and beyond. You get a hot molten core generating heat, breaking down atoms, creating gasses building an atmosphere. It would be a project span across multiple possibly tens of tens of generations. Like the Pyramids and great structures of antient times were.
Go back look throughout history every great technology developed over generations, not over night. Look at what the TV, Telephone, Electronics, Computers. All of which started development when the Greatest Generation was young, then handed off to the Boomers, and the GenX got it ready for primetime for the Millennials to come along and fuck it all up with just one hand held device.
We're not going to leave a mark on humanity by trying to shoehorn interplanetary space travel into a Whirly Woo. At least not this generation.
There's acceleration going on, but acceleration isn't the whole picture. I'm sure a spinning rocket ship might relive some maladies caused by zero gravity, but I bet it wont be enough to mitigate every affliction of an Artificial Travel through space. Rather than having blood in your veins just floating around and going nowhere. Putting them in the Tornado carnival ride is just going to suck their blood down their feet. What are they going to do, a few hours on their feet, then turn upside down and do a few hours on their head?
If we ever develop the technology where we can intercept a large 100 klm Asteroid, and stir it away. Then we could stir it into orbit outside the moon while we figure out how to harness it as a space ship suitable for human space travel. We would have to study what it does to the Earth's tidal flow with the increased gravitational pulls.
It takes Real Estate to travel the galaxy and beyond. You get a hot molten core generating heat, breaking down atoms, creating gasses building an atmosphere. It would be a project span across multiple possibly tens of tens of generations. Like the Pyramids and great structures of antient times were.
Go back look throughout history every great technology developed over generations, not over night. Look at what the TV, Telephone, Electronics, Computers. All of which started development when the Greatest Generation was young, then handed off to the Boomers, and the GenX got it ready for primetime for the Millennials to come along and fuck it all up with just one hand held device.
We're not going to leave a mark on humanity by trying to shoehorn interplanetary space travel into a Whirly Woo. At least not this generation.
33
Ceffer
2023 Apr 5, 7:29pm
Ceffer
2023 Apr 5, 7:29pm
Aliens have decided we are not allowed off our planet because we are motherfuckers. I can't disagree with them. Apparently, we have to release the dynastic hold of the psychopathic Draco Bloodlines. Then, we might be gifted some extra-planetary rapid technology.
Snuff a Satanic dynastic, maybe you'll live long enough to get your own UFO to bop around in.
Snuff a Satanic dynastic, maybe you'll live long enough to get your own UFO to bop around in.
35
Patrick
2024 Nov 30, 1:21pm
Patrick
2024 Nov 30, 1:21pm
https://barsoom.substack.com/p/the-whims-of-mars
Not everyone appreciates the good timeline. A persistent current of discourse holds that we shouldn’t go to Mars, that it is a misbegotten ambition, unrealistic, unprofitable, and even counterproductive. “Antarctica would be easier,” they say, “We should start there if we start anywhere.” Mars is too difficult; the technology doesn’t exist; it’s fantastically expensive, with no conceivable profit to be derived from a frigid desert littered with dead rocks, where the clouds themselves are made of red dust, where the air is too thin and toxic to breathe, where nothing can possibly grow. Therefore, they pronounce, we shouldn’t go. We shouldn’t even try to go. We should use our limited resources to solve our pressing problems down here on Earth – climate change, poverty, racism, the gender pay gap, the refusal of the chuds to use the correct pronouns.
Leave aside that if Europeans had waited to solve Europe’s problems, they never would have left. ...
Briefly, Mars is valuable because its shallow gravity well and proximity to the asteroid belt provides an ideal planetary surface on which to build the industrial infrastructure necessary to refine asteroids into useful metals and finished manufactured products, which can then be sent back to the terrestrial market (or shipped elsewhere in the solar system). ...
The purpose of Martian settlement, settlement of the wider solar system, and in the long run the Galaxy, isn’t turning a profit, but ensuring the long-term survival of consciousness in a hostile and uncertain universe.
36
Tenpoundbass
2024 Nov 30, 4:13pm
Tenpoundbass
2024 Nov 30, 4:13pm
That couple stranded on the Space Station, that wont be coming back until February.
They left in June of this year. Last month rescuers reached them, but can't return until February.
The female who was an athlete when she left for the mission. Is now emaciated and looks like a starvation victim that has been kept in a torture chamber for the last 4 months.
Turns out you need 3 to 4 times the calories in Space than you do in Earth's gravity. Just to maintain your body weight. Now either way you look at it, that's not practical to sustain a human crew for a year long voyage, or more to Mars. What ever amount of food you might think that would require for a crew of five. Quadruple that. They need food for a crew of 20. Or they could have high caloric food, which means bad nasty shit, that Science here on Earth says you're not supposed to eat. A diet of Sugar and Lard wont be sustainable on the human body for a long voyage, if that's all they ate for months and months.
They left in June of this year. Last month rescuers reached them, but can't return until February.
The female who was an athlete when she left for the mission. Is now emaciated and looks like a starvation victim that has been kept in a torture chamber for the last 4 months.
Turns out you need 3 to 4 times the calories in Space than you do in Earth's gravity. Just to maintain your body weight. Now either way you look at it, that's not practical to sustain a human crew for a year long voyage, or more to Mars. What ever amount of food you might think that would require for a crew of five. Quadruple that. They need food for a crew of 20. Or they could have high caloric food, which means bad nasty shit, that Science here on Earth says you're not supposed to eat. A diet of Sugar and Lard wont be sustainable on the human body for a long voyage, if that's all they ate for months and months.
37
HeadSet
2024 Dec 1, 7:40am
HeadSet
2024 Dec 1, 7:40am
Tenpoundbass says
Correct. When we do seriously start populating Venus and Mars. it will be with engineered beings designed to thrive in those environments. Similar to how humans are adapted to survive on Earth.
Now either way you look at it, that's not practical to sustain a human crew for a year long voyage, or more to Mars
Correct. When we do seriously start populating Venus and Mars. it will be with engineered beings designed to thrive in those environments. Similar to how humans are adapted to survive on Earth.
39
WookieMan
2024 Dec 1, 11:14am
WookieMan
2024 Dec 1, 11:14am
Tenpoundbass says
It would have to be a multi-ship trip where they could link up with other ships that had supplies. Think of water. It would take at least 10 super heavy starships to make a landing and return possible. You'd need at least 20 crew that have skills in a lot of fields and have 3 years at least of free time. Not happening until the trip can be shortened.
Or land 10-20 super heavies in one spot with gear and resources then bring the crew in on the back end. I really don't see it being feasible. It's easily $1T. If there are in the ground resources it could be worth it, but it's a massive gamble. But $1T could turn into a $10T gain if there's gold, silver or other minerals worth bringing back. Who the hell knows.
What ever amount of food you might think that would require for a crew of five. Quadruple that. They need food for a crew of 20. Or they could have high caloric food, which means bad nasty shit, that Science here on Earth says you're not supposed to eat. A diet of Sugar and Lard wont be sustainable on the human body for a long voyage, if that's all they ate for months and months.
It would have to be a multi-ship trip where they could link up with other ships that had supplies. Think of water. It would take at least 10 super heavy starships to make a landing and return possible. You'd need at least 20 crew that have skills in a lot of fields and have 3 years at least of free time. Not happening until the trip can be shortened.
Or land 10-20 super heavies in one spot with gear and resources then bring the crew in on the back end. I really don't see it being feasible. It's easily $1T. If there are in the ground resources it could be worth it, but it's a massive gamble. But $1T could turn into a $10T gain if there's gold, silver or other minerals worth bringing back. Who the hell knows.
40
Tenpoundbass
2024 Dec 1, 11:27am
Tenpoundbass
2024 Dec 1, 11:27am
WookieMan says
So crews that left months before they left Earth to be positioned at the point to where they were needed.
While not only carrying enough critical food and supplies to resupply the mission crew. But have critical supplies to last on for a longer period of time, the mission crew restocking would have spent time in Space. And not only that, have supplies to get them back from the point where the mission crew needed to stop for restocking. SiFi art in the last 80 to 60 years, has left most people unmilling to assess what is really possible and what is just fantasy junk. No less laughable than stories about Unicorns and fairies.
It would have to be a multi-ship trip where they could link up with other ships that had supplies.
So crews that left months before they left Earth to be positioned at the point to where they were needed.
While not only carrying enough critical food and supplies to resupply the mission crew. But have critical supplies to last on for a longer period of time, the mission crew restocking would have spent time in Space. And not only that, have supplies to get them back from the point where the mission crew needed to stop for restocking. SiFi art in the last 80 to 60 years, has left most people unmilling to assess what is really possible and what is just fantasy junk. No less laughable than stories about Unicorns and fairies.
41
RWSGFY
2024 Dec 1, 11:34am
RWSGFY
2024 Dec 1, 11:34am
When Spain and Portugal got huge influx of gold from the Americas it caused massive inflation, neglect for other sectors of the economy and rampant political corruption and rent-seeking behavior. I'm not so sure repeating this with $10T worth of gold from Mars is such a good idea.
42
HeadSet
2024 Dec 1, 6:24pm
HeadSet
2024 Dec 1, 6:24pm
RWSGFY says
I do not think anyone need worry about that, as it would cost $20T to mine and transport that $10T in gold back to Earth.
I'm not so sure repeating this with $10T worth of gold from Mars is such a good idea.
I do not think anyone need worry about that, as it would cost $20T to mine and transport that $10T in gold back to Earth.
43
AmericanKulak
2024 Dec 1, 6:27pm
AmericanKulak
2024 Dec 1, 6:27pm
You're either expanding or contracting, which is why Woke and Malthusian Socialisms are a death Cult
A huge influx of cheap gold (or platinum) would have some interesting impacts on Manufacturing. And be very bad for Kitco, ha!
I for one would froth at the chance to buy some cheap Martian acreage or invest in a Stock Company.
The real future is mining and hallowing out asteroids. If you can wait a few years, slap an ion drive on it.
A huge influx of cheap gold (or platinum) would have some interesting impacts on Manufacturing. And be very bad for Kitco, ha!
I for one would froth at the chance to buy some cheap Martian acreage or invest in a Stock Company.
The real future is mining and hallowing out asteroids. If you can wait a few years, slap an ion drive on it.
44
stereotomy
2024 Dec 1, 6:39pm
stereotomy
2024 Dec 1, 6:39pm
Ohomenbot has obviously expended many CPU simulation cycles to project the odds of colonization. How many Chindians is Elena hiring to enhance the predictive powers of Ohomenbot?
« First « Previous Comments 15 - 44 of 44 Search these comments
Elena and I have had numerous discussions over the years about the possibility of flying to Mars and living there for the rest of our lives. Elena consistently rejects it. She could not imagine having to live six months in a spacecraft ("a tin can") while in transit to Mars. It was unthinkable for her to live in a place with no vegetation, no trees, no animals. She would not want to wear a spacesuit every time she went outside.
Some years ago, I was at a Mars Society Convention. One of the speakers asked all in the audience who were ready to go to Mars and spend the rest of their lives to stand up. I stood up. To me living on Mars would be an incredible adventure with so many new things to discover including life on the planet. Unfortunately, I am too old for this ever to be a reality.
I was once in a meeting with NASA scientist Chris McKay. He compared Mars to Antarctica. He said that it would never be more than a remote outpost with scientific research stations like McMurdo.
An intrepid man from Holland started an organization called Mars One. His goal was to establish a viable colony on Mars. He got the attention of Lockheed Martin and SpaceX. He got some 200 highly-qualified and educated men and women to sign up to start their lives over again on Mars. I have been in meetings with the founder and a number of people who had signed up for the trip. Sadly, not enough money was raised to get this project off the ground.
As a matter of interest, Elon Musk has the goal to retire on Mars.
Jordan Wright debunked a lot of past theories about colonizing Mars. He pointed out that these settlements would not be "a backwater" for a few research scientists and eccentrics. Rather it would be a dynamic and commercially viable venture. He pointed out several asteroids super rich with all sorts of minerals and rare metals. Mining these asteroids would be administered from the Mars colonies. Major human exploration missions to the moons of Saturn, Jupiter, and the outer planets would be launched from Mars. One could imagine interstellar missions with humans going to other stars beginning at Mars. Mars is a natural launching pad that is superior to Earth in many respects. Here is a fascinating podcast that I urge all of you to watch:
(183) Starship launches 4/10!!! Plus, why SpaceX Mars Colonists will be the richest humans alive! - YouTube