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And you were right the first time. People don’t have money, and banks aren’t lending. It’s just that the numbers are so small, that everything is noise.These numbers are very insightful http://dqnews.com/Articles/2009/News/California/RRCA090716.aspx 44,167 sales in the state of California in June The average sales number in June dating back to 1988 is 50,698 The numbers are not small. The peak was 76,669 in 2004
Thanks for the numbers. There was a 3 month moratorium on foreclosures. once that finished, they got swept off the market. That number was bound to bounce. Add it up for the first half of the year. That might be less “noisyâ€So you are saying that the moratorium on foreclosures has caused the increase in sales? I dont follow it. It seems likely to me that sales have increased because prices have fallen...Econ 101. Your comments were that people dont have money and banks arent lending but the statistics are contrary to that. Sales are up dramatically from those lows. EIther people are getting loans to buy those houses or they have enough cash to buy them without loans
. Sure, people breathe in general, but the artificial constriction caused the larger than normal breath.I'm not sure that makes sense. If there are less houses available, you would think less sales would occur. If I have 5 apples to sell, at most I sell 5. If I have 500 apples to sell, I would likely sell more than 5. I don't know much about econ, so maybe there's more to the story.
EIther people are getting loans to buy those houses or they have enough cash to buy them without loansThere are a LOT of folks who are still sitting on their bubble equities. Don't omit them as a factor. If they didn't move from CA to Austin and pay for their 500K house in cash, they are likely diving back into the market there in CA. There is no big secret. Almost no one has any money right now, unless it's funny.
You’re nitpicking.I'm just sick of people throwing those terms around without understanding what they actually mean. The overuse of "socialism" in particular bothers me because the "bad" aspects of socialism are irrelevant if you don't even understand what socialism actually is. There's this bizarre knee-jerk reaction to any government spending as "socialism" with the implied "failures" of socialism that are simply wrong. You can argue against Keynesian economics all you want, but to equate the practice with socialism itself is absurd, and with communism is illogical. Socialism is definitely a failed system, just as capitalism is a failed system. It's a good thing that all rational countries have mixed economies, then, isn't it?
Socialism is definitely a failed system, just as capitalism is a failed system. It’s a good thing that all rational countries have mixed economies, then, isn’t it?On paper, at least, they both have their merits - especially/only if you remove the human fallibility factor.
mikey say: I think Sarah was being facetious with that VP comment.I think she lacks the intellectual capacity to lead. She surrounded herself with smart people who write eloquent speeches and wrapped it up in a pretty but girl-tough package. That can only go so far...
>>Believe me, the private sector is capable of fucking up healthcare all by itself. Big amen to thatI would beleive that when the private sector had more control, they were doing a much better job at running things. When I was growing up seeing a doctor was never a problem. Also doctors could use their judgment and experience when it came to treating people. Now the entire industry is ran by insurance companies and the government. Although it may not be obvious when you see a doctor these days the chances are your treatment is almost solely based on what the insurance company and Medicare thinks they should cover vs the doctor. Also should be illegal for drug companies to bribe doctors with gifts to push their drugs and treatments. Call me selfish, but I do not think it is fair for me to have to lower my ability to get treated while having to pay for other peoples treatments at the same time. I think there are a lot of problems, but I think most of them are the result of doctors lack of power and not them having too much power. I feel that we as a society have already taken too much power away from the people who are treating us and have given that power uninvolved parties whose only interest in our treatment is the cost.
d3 saysOk, maybe I should have said doctors. They have almost no control. The government and the insurance companies over the last 15 years essentially took away there ability to make profit or choices regarding treatment. Are people too dumb to understand that when Medicare or the insurance companies treat you, the doctor currently to base a lot of their treatment on what Medicare and the insurance companies allow and not what may be medically in best interest in the patient. When most people see a doctor, his bill is essentially meaningless. No matter how much his services should be worth he will only be able to collect a set amount. Sometimes this works out ok most of the time it does not. The doctors to control their practice or make a profit has become so bad, most primary care doctors have quite the field. The US is now having to get doctors to come from overseas because most US doctors are no longer willing to deal with the system that we have allowed both the insurance companies and the government put in place. Read the articles I linked above. The problem is, this is not stuff that is known to the average person. Doctors have very little lobbying power as do the insurance giants, pharmaceutical ect.. Basically doctors are left begging for scraps when it comes to re-imbursements. People do not want to accept this fact because all they care about is having everything handed to them and only beleive what TV tell them too. The problem is people want cheap treatment not good treatment and by allowing the goverment to take over that is what I fear we will get.justme saysStill don’t understand what you’re talking about. What do you mean, “When the private sector had more control� The private sector has ABSOLUTE control over your health care. The government is not the one deciding which treatments get paid for and which don’t. Those decisions are made by PRIVATE insurance companies. You continue to conflate private insurance companies with Medicare. Either explain how the existence of Medicare causes the government to exert influence over private insurance companies, or shut up about it. Because it doesn’t. You are talking out of your ass. What has changed since you were growing up is not government control, but the increasing greed and penny pinching of insurance companies.>>Believe me, the private sector is capable of fucking up healthcare all by itself. Big amen to thatI would however argue that when the private sector had more control, they were doing a let better job at running things. When I was growing up seeing a doctor was never a problem. Also doctors could use their judgment and experience when it came to treating people. Now the entire industry is ran by insurance companies and the government. Although it may not be obvious when you see a doctor these days the chances are your treatment is almost solely based on what the insurance company and Medicare thinks they should cover vs the doctor. Also should be illegal for drug companies to bribe doctors with gifts to push their drugs and treatments. Call me selfish, but I do not think it is fair for me to have to lower my ability to get treated while having to pay for other peoples treatments at the same time. I think there are a lot of problems, but I think most of them are the result of doctors lack of power and not them having too much power. I feel that we as a society have already taken too much power away from the people who are treating us and have given that power uninvolved parties whose only interest in our treatment is the cost.
d3, yes I agree with what you’re saying now. Bureaucrats should not be deciding what medical treatment people need; doctors should be deciding that. I guess where we disagree is that I don’t believe just leaving it in the hands of private insurance companies is going to solve anything. I think they are the PROBLEM, not the solution.I don't think we should leave it in the hands of private insurance companies either. Personally I think the doctor should decide what he is going to charge for his treatments. If he is trying to charge to much and the insurance company has a problem with that, they should take him out of their list of covered doctors. My gut tells me that unless a doctor is too good to need to accept insurance he will work with the insurance companies to come up with reasonable rates. These will lead to higher primary prices, but I believe at the same time it will lower emergency room costs because it will overtime increase the number of primary care doctors. Part of the current problem of having set prices used by Medicare and insurance companies is that it is not always equitable and unless both them and the government are will to accept that the cost of service is dependent on both physical location of service and quality of service they cannot be equitable. The way the system currently works though, I do not see the government as being willing to properly differentiate what the salary of a talented doctor in NYC vs a Novice in Las Cruses NM. Unless that can fairly happen you cannot have equity for doctors and there will be a shortage of talented primary care providers. My whole premise is that I fear we are slowly heading this way and that government involvement will most likely make the problem worse. Also I fear that if we over standardize medicine the US is going to lose out on their current ability for coming up with medical breakthroughs because doctors will be more likely become required to give specific treatments verses doing what they think will work best. Am I the only one who worries about handing my health choices over to the government or any other entity that does not have a strong medical background?
I actually don’t think most doctors should be completely in charge of it, especially when they get paid for procedures. I know way too many cancer patients used as lab rats that ran up million dollar medical bills, having procedures done that were unnecessary and dangerous that made their lives shorter and more painful… The entire medical field has been perverted by profit and greed.I think most of the greed comes from insurance companies and not the doctors. People on here seem to believe that all doctors are making a lot of money and are taking of us. I believe this is true in some medical fields, but in regards to family and non-specialized medicines we are taking advantage of the doctors
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