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259   justme   2009 Jul 17, 4:48am  

d3, I can't help but think that you have a bit of a split personality on the whole medical costs thing. One one hand, you say doctors are begging for reimbursement scraps, but on the other hand they are somehow supposed to end up charging you less scraps if only they did not have to beg and could set the price themselves. I think the logic is not sound.
260   zeet   2009 Jul 17, 5:38am  

Unfortunately you either end up having low cost, but having to commit to a volume up front, or high cost print-on-demand. If you've had bad results with Cafepress, I've heard good things about Spreadshirt.
261   Diomedes   2009 Jul 17, 5:59am  

The following chart will give you a good indicator of why median prices will likely see a temporary rise as the correction continues: http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html It comes down to lag. The lower end and outlying markets like Stockton, Tracy, Vallejo, etc. have all corrected much faster. So, as per the chart, they are reaching stability. Now the mid to higher end is beginning its decline but with the low end transactions essentially oscillating around a stability level from this point forward, the mid and higher end homes will become the majority transactions. So from the standpoint of the median, the value of the median home price will increase as the mid to high end deline and the low end stays roughtly flat. At some point, we will reach a turnover point where the mid to high end will become the majority transactions and then the median will begin to fall again until all areas have reached trend. From there, the median will likely fluctuate for several years as final excesses are worked out. And from there, we will begin to slowly move up again, but at more normal fundamental rates.
262   Tude   2009 Jul 17, 6:11am  

I actually don't think most doctors should be completely in charge of it, especially when they get paid for procedures. I know way too many cancer patients used as lab rats that ran up million dollar medical bills, having procedures done that were unnecessary and dangerous that made their lives shorter and more painful... The entire medical field has been perverted by profit and greed.
263   d3   2009 Jul 17, 7:11am  

Some Guy says
d3, yes I agree with what you’re saying now. Bureaucrats should not be deciding what medical treatment people need; doctors should be deciding that. I guess where we disagree is that I don’t believe just leaving it in the hands of private insurance companies is going to solve anything. I think they are the PROBLEM, not the solution.
I don't think we should leave it in the hands of private insurance companies either. Personally I think the doctor should decide what he is going to charge for his treatments. If he is trying to charge to much and the insurance company has a problem with that, they should take him out of their list of covered doctors. My gut tells me that unless a doctor is too good to need to accept insurance he will work with the insurance companies to come up with reasonable rates. These will lead to higher primary prices, but I believe at the same time it will lower emergency room costs because it will overtime increase the number of primary care doctors. Part of the current problem of having set prices used by Medicare and insurance companies is that it is not always equitable and unless both them and the government are will to accept that the cost of service is dependent on both physical location of service and quality of service they cannot be equitable. The way the system currently works though, I do not see the government as being willing to properly differentiate what the salary of a talented doctor in NYC vs a Novice in Las Cruses NM. Unless that can fairly happen you cannot have equity for doctors and there will be a shortage of talented primary care providers. My whole premise is that I fear we are slowly heading this way and that government involvement will most likely make the problem worse. Also I fear that if we over standardize medicine the US is going to lose out on their current ability for coming up with medical breakthroughs because doctors will be more likely become required to give specific treatments verses doing what they think will work best. Am I the only one who worries about handing my health choices over to the government or any other entity that does not have a strong medical background?
264   d3   2009 Jul 17, 7:14am  

Tude says
I actually don’t think most doctors should be completely in charge of it, especially when they get paid for procedures. I know way too many cancer patients used as lab rats that ran up million dollar medical bills, having procedures done that were unnecessary and dangerous that made their lives shorter and more painful… The entire medical field has been perverted by profit and greed.
I think most of the greed comes from insurance companies and not the doctors. People on here seem to believe that all doctors are making a lot of money and are taking of us. I believe this is true in some medical fields, but in regards to family and non-specialized medicines we are taking advantage of the doctors
265   Patrick   2009 Jul 17, 7:31am  

What's wrong wiith the Obama plan of having a government alternative insurer? Seems pretty good to me. Not dictating anything, just providing an alternative, and a guarantee you are eligible for it. If you like private insurance, you can buy it. Taxes may go up, but premiums go away. And taxes may not even have to go up if we can manage to reduce spending to other countries with good health care. We spend twice what they do for no better health.
266   knightparzival   2009 Jul 17, 9:46am  

Summing all my thoughts together: I believe the biggest problem with the industry is that primary care doctors leaving the field because the government and insurance companies have made it too unprofitable for doctors to want to continue their practice and to open new ones. Because of the shortage of primary care doctors in many cities you have to wait a few days to see a doctor. People who cannot or do not want to wait a few days to see a doctor are often left with having to admitted in to the emergency room which costs a lot more money. Simple procedures that a doctor would charge $200 are now costing $1000's of dollars because of all of the added administrative overhead created by an emergency room visit. By allowing the government to control medical care more people will probably switch from health using health insurance to government insurance. Unless the government can accept the fact that being a primary health care providers need to become more profitable for the doctors, even more doctors will leave the field. For this reason I do not see how overly socializing medicine will fix the system. Although I am far from an expert, I would rather see the following occur. Allowing primary healthcare providers to charge more money for there service so they could get the doctors needed to open more offices and for longer hours. This way if someone gets sick, they can see a doctor and not have to go to an emergency room. Also if a doctor worked hard to finish the top of his class at John Hopkins he should be able to make his hard work worth it by being able to get a greater compensation for his services. I think that is fair. Maybe insurance companies should categorize doctors based on their average rates and then force patients to pay a certain % of the extra cost if the patient opts to go to a more expensive practice for treatment. In regards to paying for people without coverage, it is currently being done in some fashion. If you are really sick the hospital will admit you and cover their loses by charging more money to the other patiants. This is where I think the government can step in.. For emergency room visits, I do not have an issue with the government subsidizing the cost based on your income. If you are uninsured then the government should step in to subsidize of the cost of emergency procedures and preventative care based upon your net income. We are already paying for this through higher medical bills for those who are covering the cost their bills. We would essentially be rolling the medical premiums we pay to cover uninsured people to our taxes. In the end we should be paying about the same overall but things would hopefully become more transparent and manageable because hospitals would no longer need to cover there loses by charging more money to people who have insurance. I know that I am way out of my league with this stuff and Maybe my idea crazy, but it is what I think would make more sense...
267   elliemae   2009 Jul 17, 1:15pm  

OO said the physical therapy rehab facility are always keeping the seniors for the max time Medicare allows. I have never seen one senior getting discharged after 3 days even though the injury is minor. There is so many Medicare abuses that this is not even funny.
Actually, that's not true. I work in a SNF and we regularly discharge patients when they're done with their therapy, whether thats a few days or a few months. The facility has to justify the amount of therapy provided to every patient and if the patient doesn't need the service, they go home. Are there abuses? Absolutely - I worked in a facility that was absolutely horrible and ended up leaving due to the abuses, but I reported it first. But there are facilities that are run ethically and morally. In fact, I'd say that more are ethical than not. Right now our healthcare system is run by for-profit companies whose job it is to keep costs down so that they can make money hand over fist - this includes denying procedures that, had they been done they would have prevented further surgeries. The govt helps to set prices, but private insurance companies do their own setting of prices too. Other countries have shown that the govt can get involved and it can be beneficial.
268   elliemae   2009 Jul 17, 1:24pm  

Hey, Nomo. Where ya been? And what's with interjecting reality into this conversation?
269   localsavage   2009 Jul 17, 3:15pm  

The main stream media is a waste on all fronts. All they do is copy and paste whatever the PR firms spit out. Ask yourself the last time you saw a news reporter who was educated on a subject well enough to even ask a single pertinant question. They are too stupid to even realize that these month to month improvements happen every summer. Then everyone will put their heads in the sand when the weather cools and people slow down on buying.
270   knightparzival   2009 Jul 17, 9:53pm  

Just because I am not a fan of government running things does not imply I want insurance companies running things either. If I some how implied that, it was not my intent. I believe that neither the insurance company or the government should be in charge of treatment or be able to manipulate prices for their own benefit. Most of my dislike of the current system is based on the fact that by taking power away from doctors, patient care is now being determined by non-doctors whos only interest is in saving money and not lives. This is a problem with both private insurance and government controlled programs. I beleived that healthcare worked much better in the us before it was taken over by the insurance programs and other external entities. If any one is to be more regulated it should be the insurance companies. Currently they have a lot of lobbying power and have almost complete control over most of the primary care practices. A lot of doctors currently feal trapped. Also I beleive another problem with the current system is that we allow US citizens pay for almost all of the medical research. When drugs are introduced to the market most contries have price controls on drugs that US companies feal obligated to follow which has lead to much higher pricers for drugs purchased in the US. I feel research costs should be shared by all who use the drugs. If a country does not want it's people to pay the extra cost, we should not sell them the drugs. This however is an entirely different issue...
271   elliemae   2009 Jul 18, 1:17am  

This is my first forum (and only, to date). I feel your pain on the arguing, there's an awful lot of polarized name calling (lib v conservative) and that sucks. But there are some nice people with stuff to say. And we're working on the nursing home forum - patrick has set it up so that anyone can post a comment, good or bad, uncensored about every nursing home in the country. We're posting articles and and grades, so that people can make informed decisions. We have a ways to go but it's coming along nicely. This, and old "friends" are why I stick around. But I do have an actual life too. :)
272   lenglet   2009 Jul 18, 4:35am  

Here in Canada the media was wild crazy telling us all that we avoided the real estate drop. Now after sales and prices are down they are calling June record month and a "recovery". Wait a minute ... if we avoided the carnage what are we recovering from? June is the best month for real estate sales. June being up a few points from May is a totally meanlingless stat. The fact that its only up 2-3% shows the truth. Only a 2-3% increase in sales for the busiest month? Yikes! Yet Realtors are quick to run to the copy machines and hand out flyers to all stating "Real Estate up in JUNE!" Its up every June. Just like retail sales are up every December. What happened to news? Its just quacking ducks now parroting whatever trash they are handed. Of course you can trace every "news" outlet to the same few parent companies. Just who is buying anyway? The same people who already went into foreclosure? We will see more foreclosures and stupid loans hit the fan next year as the only people who think housing is a bargain right now are total idiots. Markinga product up 300% adn then taking 20% off is no bargain. These sideline morons who think its finally their chance will be the next round of writeoffs and bailout candidates. I stick to one rule - if the average income cannot afford the average house - then only one thing can happen - prices must go down. Of curse there are those who believe rich foriegners will buy us up. Those are people are also morons and obviously do not travel. America is not at all appealing to most other countries citizens anymore. We get the worst immigrants that other countries do not want. One walk down any street shows. America is a dumping ground without identity. Its over.
273   Teddybearneil   2009 Jul 18, 5:59am  

I am one of those who believe in the historic co-relation between household incomes and home prices. I have been watching with unconcealed glee as prices crashed and even managed to snag an REO in Texas in 2008. I now notice that Zestimates are starting to go up on ALL the properties that I have in my Zillow favorites. It would suggest to me that we have reached the bottom in housing! I am now scrambling to snag another property before the home prices start back up on their upward curve!!
274   nope   2009 Jul 18, 7:10am  

mikey says
I think Sarah was being facetious with that VP comment. Everyone knows that the veep is second banana but that job doesn’t exactly have a bunch of appeal. Some swingers around here seem to consider her the gorilla their dreams and I’m sure they wouldn’t mind monkeying with her tail if the time was ripe. Well, at least this Chiquita isn’t on the Dole and doesn’t act like a fruit.
I wasn't talking about the "could somebody even tell me" thing, which seemed to be a joke -- I was talking about the "they're in charge of the US senate" comment. Tenpoundbass says
Those You Betcha’s and the word grasping as she reaffirms “in this “Great country of ours… Uh that is America” is a tell that she is soul searching by the seat of her pants for the next words to say, as she reads her audience
She doesn't pause that often or even say "uh" that much -- she just stumbles through sentences that a 12 year old could manage without sounding like a total buffoon. Beyond that, she's a creationist and believes that "the public" should "debate" science. Because, don'tcha know, if people don't believe something to be a fact, it isn't a fact!
275   bob2356   2009 Jul 18, 7:18am  

How do I get some of those tits benefits at my job?
276   nope   2009 Jul 18, 7:39am  

Some Guy says
I’m tired of it too, but you’re still nitpicking. The utopian concept of communism where the means of production is owned by the people doesn’t exist, and never has. There has never been a true communist country under that definition. So to nitpick about that distinction seems quite meaningless, wouldn’t you say?
No. Communism and socialism are simply not the same thing, or degrees of the same thing. Just because there has never been a (large) communist society does not mean that communism and socialism are the same thing, or that it's OK to equate them as being similar. Socialism has a lot more in common with capitalism than it does with communism, as both are systems assume benevolence on the part of those with "power", but inevitably lead to power hording and controlling the lives of individuals. Some Guy says
That’s nice, except I did no such thing. You read ALL of that into my post. All I did was type the word “communist” and everybody freaked out. Please, please, please, quote where I equated Keynesian economics with socialism, or said anything about failures of socialism.
Why do you assume that all of my comments were directed at you? Some Guy says
A government owned and operated health care system, with hospitals owned by the government and doctors as government employees is not “Keynesian economics” by the way. That is in fact socialism. That ASPECT of the government would be a socialist one. To say, “It’s not socialism because other things are not owned by the government” doesn’t cut it. You can have various socialist elements without it being necessary to say an entire society is socialist.
Of course -- though nobody is seriously considering that type of medical system. The most extreme proposals are for single payer, which is also not socialism. By reasons for "nitpicking", as you say, is that the distortion of this issue is astounding. Instead of having serious debate on the issue of how to fund health care, we keep seeing discussion about fully government owned and operated medical systems as though that was what people were going for (and automatically dismissing that policy by equating it with the failed socialist system of the USSR). That's why I say that people who are intelligent and actually understand the issues need to stop throwing around terms like "socialism" and "communism" (as well as "free market", for that matter) where they're inaccurate or just plain wrong. It's intellectual dishonestly. Do you want people to agree with something because they've been presented with the facts and made a rational decision, or do you want people to agree with something because it has been mischaracterized and presented as something with an inherent negative bias?
277   nope   2009 Jul 18, 7:53am  

angrish says
ctually, understanding the math, as the market continues to contract, the median price will actually move UP, not down. Weird huh. The problem is the word “median”. If 10000 houses sold last year for 200K, the median is 200K. If one house this year sells for 220K, the median is 220k, a 10% rise in prices.
That's not how math works. The median is the point where half of all values are above and half are below. In your scenario, the median is still $200k. There are some systems of calculation that exclude duplicate values, but those are only for very specialized equations and certainly aren't used for house prices. You can't change a median by moving values at the edges. The point still holds for the most part, but please get the math right. A better example would be this: - In year 1, 1000 houses sell for $500k -- the upper end of the market has completely disappeared. Median == $500k. - In year 2, 1000 houses sell for $300k, and 1000 houses sell for $800k. Median == $550k For the people who are in the 'lower' tier of home buyers, it looks disheartening. House prices are up! But the reality is that, for them, house prices are actually down by over 40%. This is exactly what will start to happen as prices on high end homes start to fall and sales pick up.
278   HeadSet   2009 Jul 18, 8:16am  

Kevin, You may have misread angrish's post. My interpretation is: 2008 - 10000 houses sell for $200k, so 2008 median is $200k 2009 - 1 house sells for $220k, so 2009 median is $220k Newspapers then report median increase in 2009 over 2008 Your example is technically correct (since when two numbers bracket the median, you can take the average of the two numbers as the "median"), but is a better example of a mean than a median.
279   justme   2009 Jul 18, 10:18am  

I, for one, am glad that Kevin takes the time to debunk some of the distortions and propaganda that is being thrown around to scare people away from healthcare reform. Thanks, Kevin.
280   justme   2009 Jul 18, 10:28am  

I see lots an lots of cognitive dissonance in this thread. People cannot quite decide whether the villain is private enterprises, or government, or sometimes BOTH at the same time. What does that make such a person, some kind of nihilist or anarchist? I have a theory as to why this is occurring: People who normally were adamantly against government involvement in anything (having been bottle-fed anti-government propaganda since they were young enough to flick on a TV) now have seen lots of evidence (bubbles, financial crises, bailouts, losses, unemployment and general mayhem, ) that private enterprise and "free" markets have lots of imperfections. But at the same time, the just KNOW that regulation and government is ALWAYS evil and awful. So then where do they go? People are literally kicking left and right, and somehow trying to reconcile their world view with the facts "on the ground" to use another trite phrase. It would be amusing if it was not so sad. The solution to most problems of society is that BOTH government AND private enterprise/free markets must be regulated to keep them honest. If we could agree on that, we would at least have a starting point.
281   justme   2009 Jul 18, 12:35pm  

The people regulates the government through elections. That is at least the way it is supposed to work. Instead we have corporations regulating the government through monetary donations.
282   justme   2009 Jul 18, 12:47pm  

The semantics of semantics. Drfelle exclaimed: >> Semantics! A few weeks ago, Elliemae said (and it stuck in my head) >> Nah, they’re busy slinging names, blaming it on the libs and delving into semantics. At the time. I did not understand what she meant by the expression "delving into semantics." You could say, I did not understand the semantics (==meaning) of the expression. Now I think I do. But it bothers me. The implication is that "semantics", or understanding the meaning or definition of words and concepts, is somehow a contemptible game. Well, it only is if you make it so. I think we should not accuse someone of "semantics" when we are really accusing them of "playing a semantic *game*" of distorting the meaning of a concept. And please, no meta-semantic games about semantics now....
283   justme   2009 Jul 18, 12:53pm  

SomeGuy, Haha, don't you understand that you need to be a mind-reader, and the correct answer is either "Tuscan" or "Local". As in: You: Do you want to go for some Local? GF: Uh, which one? You: ???? Or alternatively, you could play some semantic games with her: You: Do you want to go for some local? GF: Excellent idea! You: Ok, let's go to the Mexican one down the street GF: ????
284   justme   2009 Jul 18, 12:54pm  

>> and spend less time posting on Patrick.net; maybe then you’ll be able to afford health coverage. Look who's talking. It's always the right-wingers who wants *everyone else* to get off their fat lazy asses. 1/2 :-)
285   justme   2009 Jul 18, 1:09pm  

Some Guy, >>So my question is: What else ya got? You're a relative newbie, so you just walked right into that one :-) :-) Do a search on "election system" right here on patrick.net for the answer(*) In short: The problem is that our dysfunctional 2-party duopoly system is caused by our equally dysfunctional election system, which in practise permits only 2 parties to win elections, and hence no free market in political representation. We need to regulate the elections system to get a properly functioning democratic process. (*) Actually, Patrick, it seems that the Google search does not find all older post, or am I mistaken?
286   justme   2009 Jul 18, 1:11pm  

>> *chuckle* Me too. That was a classic. It's not a solution unless drfelle says so,
287   Teddybearneil   2009 Jul 18, 1:11pm  

Some Guy says
Teddybearneil says
I am one of those who believe in the historic co-relation between household incomes and home prices. I have been watching with unconcealed glee as prices crashed and even managed to snag an REO in Texas in 2008. I now notice that Zestimates are starting to go up on ALL the properties that I have in my Zillow favorites. It would suggest to me that we have reached the bottom in housing! I am now scrambling to snag another property before the home prices start back up on their upward curve!!
Oooh, Zestimates. Yeah, those are really accurate…
I mean I would love for the home prices to crash further so that I can snag another property for pennies on the dollar..but thanks to the re-flation policies of the Fed/Treasury, it appears that a combination of low interest rates, plenty of loans being originated with only 3% down payment, banks NOT foreclosing on properties and the existing inventory of foreclosed properties pretty much cleared out, I don't see how and when prices will come down further. A bottom with a bounce as another wag suggested, is a possibility, but I am not betting on it. I am definitely going to buy a home if it gives me a monthly positive cash flow by renting it out!!
288   justme   2009 Jul 18, 1:17pm  

Patrick, Here's an example of a search term not found: I did a search on "Duverger", and it came up empty. But here's a post that contains the word: http://patrick.net/?p=548#comment-622769 Am I doing something wrong here?
289   justme   2009 Jul 18, 1:27pm  

SomeGuy, yes, I was being sarcastic/humorous, partly at my own expense. Humor alert: I think I know your girlfriend, too Or could there be more than one of them? Still more humor: >>Hint: Your sentence should start with “The solution is…”, as opposed to “The problem is…” Are we suddenly playing the game show Jeopardy now, where you do not get points unless you formulate the answer as a question. Jeepers.
290   justme   2009 Jul 18, 1:31pm  

>> I have health care….that I pay for….that I don’t bitch about. And therefore, if someone else does not, it must be their own fault?
291   justme   2009 Jul 18, 1:48pm  

That's a lot of if-if-if qualifiers there, Doctor Nixon ...
292   nope   2009 Jul 18, 4:56pm  

justme says
Well, it only is if you make it so. I think we should not accuse someone of “semantics” when we are really accusing them of “playing a semantic *game*” of distorting the meaning of a concept.
That's exactly my point when I complain about use of terms like "socialism" and "communism". There is a MASSIVE difference between a single-payer "insurance" system and what you might get out of a "socialist" system. When you start throwing around these terms, you're distorting the actual discussion about what is best for our country by bringing fear to the table. If you tell Joe six pack that a single payer system is communism, he's going to automatically reject it, without actually investigating what is being proposed and how it would work. There have been numerous studies that show that people are open to just about anything if you phrase it a certain way. Politicians know this all too well, and people like Karl Rove have made their entire careers on influencing opinion through selective language. drfelle says
If they’re paying for cable TV and INTERNET, eating out, paying for a mortgage they can’t afford, wearing designer clothing, buying Plasma’s/Blu-Rays, having kids out of wed-lock, financing a car, etc, etc, Then YES!
So your basic argument is that it's OK to overpay for health care because there is still a lot to sacrifice? Perhaps we should all live like serfs so that we can afford to pay the insurance companies whatever they ask? That's not a solution. A "solution" means coming up with the best way to reduce the crushing cost of health care on society as a whole. Health care costs have been growing at a rate more than double the general cost of living. That is not sustainable.
293   nope   2009 Jul 18, 5:15pm  

Tenpoundbass says
Creation or Evolution, it’s both human interpretation. Exactly how evolved or “Evolution works” for that matter. Is only speculation and theories at this point.
You do realize that a "theory" has actual scientific meaning, right? Saying that something is "only" a theory doesn't somehow denote the status of the research. The theory of Gravity is only a theory, too. That's the whole point of science. Being presented with facts and interpreting those facts. There are no "facts" in creationism -- it's not science, it is theology. Tenpoundbass says
There are Zealots in the Scientific community as any change to their Scientific religion is Heresy and to not believe or question is Blasphemy.
Oh please. There are no real scientists (you know, people with degrees and experience who perform scientific research) who do any such thing. The scientific method requires peer review and reproduction, which is something that global warming deniers, creationists, and people who believe that oil 'grows' out of the ground hate. If you believe that the prevailing scientific knowledge on a given subject is wrong, all you have to do is perform some research that contradicts the existing research. It isn't that hard to disprove something that is obviously wrong, but it's very hard to disprove something that is probably right (like gravity and evolution). I'll agree with the argument that science can and has been misinterpreted and misused, but that doesn't change the nature of the discovery process. As an example: Fact: The earth is getting hotter. Theories as to why: (Prevailing theory): Lots of evidence suggests that the earth is getting hotter because of increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. (Somewhat common) Valid, but less thoroughly researched evidence suggests that the warming may be caused by other effects than CO2, such as solar cycles and geothermal activity. So, yeah, it's absolutely possible for people who know the facts to continue doing research to try to determine whether the prevailing theory (which we can control) or the less-common theory (which we can't control) hold true. But it isn't "science" to just dismiss the basic fact of the earth getting hotter. That's like dismissing gravity because you don't like it when you fall on your ass. Tenpoundbass says
Religious nuts have always challenged Science, and Science has seemed to get along just fine. Why get in a pissing contest over climate change, evolution ect…
Because the creationists (like Sarah Palin) want to teach Creationism in school, and fill my children's head with nonsense about magical sky dwellers who created man out of some dust. If Sarah wants her kids to believe such stories, she's welcome to attend any church that she likes.
294   nope   2009 Jul 18, 5:36pm  

chrisborden says
How about teaching people to exercise, to stop eating corporate poison, to cook for themselves,
Absolutely. Guess what, though? Uneducated people lack the knowledge to make those decisions. If you want them to be able to make those intelligent decisions, you're going to have to provide them with a good education. The poverty / poor education cycle is vicious. The 'corporate poison' is another fun issue. How do you teach them not to eat it? If anyone tries to publish the evidence of how horrible this food is for you, they get sued by McDonald's and co. Hell, look at the food pyramid. It was written by the farm lobby, which is why it makes the completely outrageous claim that grains (you know, wheat, soy, and corn) should form the basis of our diet, and that meat is of equal importance as fruits and vegetables. That is so beyond unhealthy that it's almost criminal. How do you expect ordinary people to make good decisions about their health when they're being told that giving their kids white bread peanut butter and jelly sandwiches is healthy? Many other countries have addressed these problems by heavily regulating their food industries. I might get on board with that approach, but I doubt that the people who think that the current system works would be. Of course, that's not going to change the basic nature of health care. There is no free market when I get hit by a truck. "Personal responsibility" isn't involved when a building collapses on me.
stop taking drugs and drinking and smoking,
The government-funded anti-smoking campaign (surgeon general's warnings, high taxes on tobacco, and TRUTH ads more recently) have accomplished exactly that. Smoking rates in the US have fallen to less than 20% of their peak, all because the government stepped in and made people aware of just how bad smoking was for them. So that worked. Maybe soda should come with warning labels too (in some countries, it does).
stop vegetating in front of the idiot box, stop wanting to pop a pill for every perceived ailment,
How about banning the advertising of medication? "Ask your doctor about..." is just wrong. Your doctor should be the one telling you about a medication, not your television.
stop obsessing about being sick (you get what you THINK)? When we don’t need doctors, then they’ll just have to find something else to do. (Oh, pardon me for being so naive.)
We will always need doctors. What you're suggesting would certainly cut down on heart disease and some forms of cancer, but the big burdens would still be there. Is "personal responsibility" going to make bones stop breaking, the elderly stop aging, or anything else? And just SAYING "personal responsibility" is meaningless when you have a society that has been built up to cram bad ideas down everybody's throats. The free market has utterly failed at steering people towards healthy lifestyle habits, so the only option there is going to be even more government intervention. I am 100% in favor of changing behavior here. We need our school lunches to no longer include nachos and dr pepper. We need to make McDonald's cease to be the most popular resturaunt. We aren't going to do that when the food companies who make these terrible products have all the money and can skew perception all that they want.
295   P2D2   2009 Jul 18, 5:42pm  

Teddybearneil says
anks NOT foreclosing on properties and the existing inventory of foreclosed properties pretty much cleared out, I don’t see how and when prices will come down further.
Foreclosures in Silicon Valley continue to climb:
There were 591 foreclosures in Santa Clara County in June, up 22 percent compared with May, ForeclosureRadar, a Discovery Bay company that tracks California foreclosure activity, reported Tuesday. Foreclosures were up 63 percent in May from April. In a sign that the trend would continue, notices of default — the first step leading to foreclosure — rose by 11.5 percent. Foreclosure sales statewide jumped by 24.7 percent, the company said, marking the third consecutive month of increase following a moratorium pending announcement
Can anyone explain me how I can infer inventory of foreclosed properties will clear out soon?
296   Indian   2009 Jul 19, 7:34am  

I just heard this asshole radio anchor Bob brinker and a caller criticize public health plan. They were lamenting that if public health insurance how would "poor" private health insurance companies compete with the public plan. It is unbelievable how evil some people can get in this country. These same motherfuckers like bob brinkers of the world will have no issue when a private health insurance denies coverage to some cancer patient. After all to these insects in human form of the world think that health is also a matter of profit. Why these assholes don't demand that essential services like fire brigade and police also is privatized....
297   elliemae   2009 Jul 19, 8:08am  

How would those poor private health insurance companies compete with the public plan? That would be horrible. As it is, the execs of those poor private companies are barely eeking by: The salaries of the highest paid health insurance CEOs: * Ron Williams – Aetna – Total Compensation: $24,300,112. * H. Edward Hanway – CIGNA – Total Compensation: $12,236,740. * Angela Braly – WellPoint – Total Compensation: $9,844,212. * Dale Wolf – Coventry Health Care – Total Compensation: $9,047,469. * Michael Neidorff – Centene – Total Compensation: $8,774,483. * James Carlson – AMERIGROUP – Total Compensation: $5,292,546. * Michael McCallister – Humana – Total Compensation: $4,764,309. * Jay Gellert – Health Net – Total Compensation: $4,425,355. * Richard Barasch – Universal American – Total Compensation: $3,503,702. * Stephen Hemsley – UnitedHealth Group – Total Compensation: $3,241,042. * Karen Ignagni, CEO America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) Total compensation: $1,580,000 Meanwhile, their customers' procedures are denied...
298   knightparzival   2009 Jul 19, 11:42am  

Another point we should look at when talking about health insurance... Has any one looked at how much money frivolous law suites are costing us? I think people have forgotten that when you are getting treated in the emergency room the doctor is doing what he can with the little time he has to save your life. There are laws that protect good samaritans and I think we need to have the same to protect doctors as well. People seem to think that if a doctor is unable to fix something or that there is a remote possibility that another doctor could have done better they should sue. A lot of money is spent on these cases which is why malpractice insurance is through the rough. Suing a doctor these days and making a mint seems to be the new way of obtaining the american dream. The ease in which one can sue a doctor ends up increasing the cost for everyone else to get treatment. I due not feel we should take away ones right to sue but must need to raise the bar on what constitutes wrong doing by someone who is trying to help you. I strongly believe that in order for someone to be able to sue against a doctor they must have a case that is strong enough to show gross negligence. For example in order to sue a doctor, that doctor must do something like used the wrong patient chart, or left a tool in you. I also think a neutral third party should be used to determine if a case is even worthy of going to trial before lawyers have to be brought in.

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