patrick.net

>site examples where liberalism works — at all.

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, Japan.

No place is perfect. Liberalism is about seeing what works, and doing that. Conservatism is fighting this in favor of the status quo ante that was not a better place to live or be.

Liberalism is the rejection of the Market -- and private Wealth -- as the final arbiter of rights, instead instituting and empowering our government to mitigate the race-to-the-bottom nature of capitalism.

Government shares the greek root of "cyber", to steer (as a boat). A light hand works with this, a heavy hand doesn't. What the US has now isn't what I would design, but more taxes funding good schools, good hospitals, good local transit, and good parks is my idea of liberalism done right, since the free market, rife with rentiers of all stripes, will not provide these things.

>But in my view violence should be reserved for self defense and defense of private property.

Funny thing is if, in your world, I could go where I wanted and farm or camp without being thrown off the land I'd be much more aligned with pure libertarianism.

http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html

Bap33 says

4X says

Society needs a mix of both liberal and conservative views in order for us to progress.

says who?
prove it?
site examples where liberalism works — at all.
Thanks.

Civil rights act of 1964, Womens Rights, Equal employment act, Americans with Disabilities act.....conservatives sat by furiously while others were given rights. Ohh wait, you dont have compassion for humanity and those were "just" social issues that I know you dont care about.....here are a few more for your scalliwag, carpetbagging antics:

Fair Minimum Wage Act of 1997
USA Patriot Act
Gun Control Act of 1968
Right to Privacy, opposed the NSA warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens
Opposed to torture

In a general sense, the modern Democratic Party is more closely aligned with the international relations theories of liberalism, neoliberalism, and functionalism than realism and neorealism, though realism has some influence on the party.

Here is a loaded question, what have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

I just came to this thread to tell everyone how much I hate freedom.

Bap33 says

AdHominem says

But in my view violence should be reserved for self defense and defense of private property. I was pretty clear about that

so, you stand and watch your fellow man get beat to death? Your wife raped? Your neighbor raped and burned alive? Your brother ripped apart by drawn horses?
maybe you missed a few example?

I am my neighbor. If I let him die, I let myself die.

excellant .... Love thy neighbor, and thy brother. excellant.

I'm with Kevin. Freedom sucks.

Nomograph says

I not only hate freedom, but I’m also trying to destroy America with my super double secret Marxist/Socialist agenda.

You might want to get your ass off that bench, then. And stop trying to talk to everyone about chocolates, 'cause you might spill your secrets. Unless you're hiding behind that whole Gump thing in a ploy to deflect attention to yoursuper double secret Marxist/Socialist agenda...

EXCELLENT!

AdHominem says

Bap33 says

AdHominem says

But in my view violence should be reserved for self defense and defense of private property. I was pretty clear about that

so, you stand and watch your fellow man get beat to death? Your wife raped? Your neighbor raped and burned alive? Your brother ripped apart by drawn horses?
maybe you missed a few example?

I am my neighbor. If I let him die, I let myself die.

4X says

Bap33 says

4X says

Society needs a mix of both liberal and conservative views in order for us to progress.

says who?
prove it?
site examples where liberalism works — at all.
Thanks.

Civil rights act of 1964, Womens Rights, Equal employment act, Americans with Disabilities act…..conservatives sat by furiously while others were given rights. Ohh wait, you dont have compassion for humanity and those were “just” social issues that I know you dont care about…..here are a few more for your scalliwag, carpetbagging antics:
Fair Minimum Wage Act of 1997
USA Patriot Act
Gun Control Act of 1968
Right to Privacy, opposed the NSA warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens
Opposed to torture
In a general sense, the modern Democratic Party is more closely aligned with the international relations theories of liberalism, neoliberalism, and functionalism than realism and neorealism, though realism has some influence on the party.
Here is a loaded question, what have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

Still cant bring yourself to acknowledge the facts, heh, BAP?....I see your quick to respond to others silly comments.

lol .. you were serious when you put up the minimum wage as a good idea?? lol. I guess we should begin there. lol. And you call yourself a conservative? HAR HAR.

Bap33 says

lol .. you were serious when you put up the minimum wage as a good idea?? lol. I guess we should begin there. lol. And you call yourself a conservative? HAR HAR.

You display similar views of arch-conservatives...against anyone that does not identify themselves as anti poor, gay or abortion....they too, are not able to dialogue without name calling.

Here are the facts:

"The last increase on July 24, 2009 was the last of three steps of the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. It was signed into law on May 25, 2007 as a rider to the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. The bill also contains almost $5 billion in tax cuts for small businesses. What more conservative than tax cuts to small businesses? According to a paper by Fuller and Geide-Stevenson, 45.6% of American economists in the year 2000 agree that a minimum wage increases unemployment among unskilled and young workers, while 27.9% agree with this statement but with provisos. As a policy question in 2006, the minimum wage has to some extent split the economics profession with just under half believing it should be eliminated and a slightly smaller percentage believing it should be increased, leaving rather few in the middle. Some idea of the empirical problems of this debate can be seen by looking at how the minimum wage fell about 29% in real terms between 1979 and 2003. For the median worker, real hourly earnings have increased since 1979, however for the lowest deciles, there have been significant falls in the real wage without much fall in the rate of unemployment. Some argue that a declining minimum wage might reduce youth unemployment (since these workers are likely to have fewer skills than older workers)."

You see, the debate on minimum wage is silly and does nothing to discount my conservative views....why would I want a lower wage job that I cannot provide for my family with? Shouldnt minimum wages rise with inflation just as home prices do, or do the poor NOT count?

If you CAN bring yourself to articulate a point without name calling, my question still stands. What have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

To really get down to basics, what part our our Constitution authorizes the minimum wage?

This is a really important question because a vary large part of all the problems America is experiencing is due to our governments failure and refusal to abide by its own written law.

In pimping and pandering for votes, politicians have ignored the constitution and promised to spend the country into oblivion, by handing out money and gifts to tens of millions of people. In doing so they have created an entire population of bitter and angry government dependents who are constantly demanding more. Since the demands are limitless, and the government can't take enough money from enough people to satisfy the demands, the soultion would be to fall back on the law of the land and abide by the Constitution.

I know, I know, thats too difficult a concept for many to accept...and thats exactly why America is in trouble. It's the ugly truth.

lol Abe .... ask the next lib you see why the minimum wage is not $20 or $50 an hour. They will then destroy their arguement for you. Silly libs. I only hope there are fewer 4X's than there are Honest Abes at the polls next Nov.

Bap33 says

lol Abe …. ask the next lib you see why the minimum wage is not $20 or $50 an hour. They will then destroy their arguement for you. Silly libs. I only hope there are fewer 4X’s than there are Honest Abes at the polls next Nov.

I am still waiting for a complete sentence, still not able to articulate a complete sentence with statements on the issues, heh? That is the only HOPE you have, is that the Republican party grows its base? That is not a likely scenario seeing that minority voters are the fastest growing constituency in this nation ...and since the Republican party believes in their leader, Rush Limbaugh, it wont matter. When referring to blacks: "They’re 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares? " But when you combine minorities as a single group they compose 1/3 the nation...don't forget women are minorities also. You have made similar statements in your previous posts so I can understand why arch-conservatism is your preferred choice over progressive-conservatives ideas like mine.

Your stupidity and outright hate are not complimenting your hair color much, so might I suggest you try using compassion, values, decency instead?

Honest Abe says

To really get down to basics, what part our our Constitution authorizes the minimum wage?
This is a really important question because a vary large part of all the problems America is experiencing is due to our governments failure and refusal to abide by its own written law.
In pimping and pandering for votes, politicians have ignored the constitution and promised to spend the country into oblivion, by handing out money and gifts to tens of millions of people. In doing so they have created an entire population of bitter and angry government dependents who are constantly demanding more. Since the demands are limitless, and the government can’t take enough money from enough people to satisfy the demands, the soultion would be to fall back on the law of the land and abide by the Constitution.
I know, I know, thats too difficult a concept for many to accept…and thats exactly why America is in trouble. It’s the ugly truth.

A complete fabrication. You know nothing of the constitution or how it's supposed to work.

You really want to be a constitutional literalist? Awesome. Please let me know when our standing military is disbanded so that I can move out of the country while it gets invaded.

4X says

If you CAN bring yourself to articulate a point without name calling, my question still stands. What have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

Your question presumes that legislation is a good thing. For the most part the opposite is true. So much of conservatives time is wasted on fighting harmful legislation. Therefore their greatest gift is opposing wasteful spending and usurpation of power by the vampire bureaucracy.

AdHominem says

4X says

If you CAN bring yourself to articulate a point without name calling, my question still stands. What have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

Your question presumes that legislation is a good thing. For the most part the opposite is true. So much of conservatives time is wasted on fighting harmful legislation. Therefore their greatest gift is opposing wasteful spending and usurpation of power by the vampire bureaucracy.

Yet, without legislation women, blacks wouldnt be able to vote. Non-white males would only be entitled to lower wage paying jobs. Blacks would be slaves and Mexicans would be deported thereby creating the great white utopian society that arch-conservatives seek. Without legislation progress is stifled.......and YES, some legislation does more harm than good.

Does anyone have any examples of Conservatives and progressive social legislation?

staynumz says

I know quite a few women. I am not convinced that giving them the right to vote was such a great idea. Show me one that is in office that is worth a damn. And blacks voted 99% for owebama. Now there are some free thinkers. How do you get 99% of any group to agree on ANYTHING!?
Gun control? You site that as a great day in liberalism? How has that worked out for you?
I will take the constitution any day over what recent politicians have put on the table.
We need LESS legislation, not more.

Good thing we have moved past the white utopian society that you and many other arch-conservatives on this thread desire. I want for my daughter to have the same rights and opportunities as my son. Plus, I am ok with the same rights being given to everyone in this country.

Wipe that stupidity off the side of your cheek, it is covering up the swastika underneath.

In September 1991, Roy Innis, National Chairman for the Congress of Racial Equality, noted a connection between anti-gun laws and high crime. Innis found that places that had the most restrictive gun control laws also had:
The most crime
The highest murder rate
The largest number of illegal guns in criminal hands
And criminals were “bolder” because the environment is “safer for criminals but less safe for unarmed citizens.

Thank you Elvis....finally, someone willing to fight with facts and not just name calling. I am ok with you citing facts to refute my posts, it is the arch-conservative supremists that I am having trouble communicating with.I would assume this is in the inner cities, where having the strictest controls would seem to be logical. Inner cities have much higher crime versus rural areas, where there really is not a need for gun control

Gun control cannot stop the influx of illegal weapons that the criminals use, gun control can only prevent access to the legal weapons through regulation.

4X says

I want for my daughter to have the same rights and opportunities as my son.

your son can not abort an unplanned baby.
your daughter can.
aint liberalism neat?

4X says

AdHominem says

4X says

If you CAN bring yourself to articulate a point without name calling, my question still stands. What have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

Your question presumes that legislation is a good thing. For the most part the opposite is true. So much of conservatives time is wasted on fighting harmful legislation. Therefore their greatest gift is opposing wasteful spending and usurpation of power by the vampire bureaucracy.

Yet, without legislation women, blacks wouldnt be able to vote. Non-white males would only be entitled to lower wage paying jobs. Blacks would be slaves and Mexicans would be deported thereby creating the great white utopian society that arch-conservatives seek. Without legislation progress is stifled…….and YES, some legislation does more harm than good.
Does anyone have any examples of Conservatives and progressive social legislation?

here's a couple

1. Ron Paul worked to bring about coinage of gold and silver by the us mint and legalization of purchase/ownership by citizens.

2. Partial birth abortion ban.

4X says

Gun control cannot stop the influx of illegal weapons that the criminals use, gun control can only prevent access to the legal weapons through regulation.

well said

AdHominem says

4X says

AdHominem says

4X says

If you CAN bring yourself to articulate a point without name calling, my question still stands. What have conservatives did for society in terms of legislation?

Your question presumes that legislation is a good thing. For the most part the opposite is true. So much of conservatives time is wasted on fighting harmful legislation. Therefore their greatest gift is opposing wasteful spending and usurpation of power by the vampire bureaucracy.

Yet, without legislation women, blacks wouldnt be able to vote. Non-white males would only be entitled to lower wage paying jobs. Blacks would be slaves and Mexicans would be deported thereby creating the great white utopian society that arch-conservatives seek. Without legislation progress is stifled…….and YES, some legislation does more harm than good.
Does anyone have any examples of Conservatives and progressive social legislation?

here’s a couple
1. Ron Paul worked to bring about coinage of gold and silver by the us mint and legalization of purchase/ownership by citizens.
2. Partial birth abortion ban.

...and I am a supporter of both pieces or legislation.

Glad to hear it!