patrick.net

twelc: you cut & pasted this in multiple threads, and I'm sure that you forwarded this to everyone that you know. We get it, you buy into the hype that the bill is bad. If we all agree that you know how to cut & paste, will you stop cutting & pasting this particular thread? It waters down your message, if you have one.

Every muslim isn't a terrorist. Every white guy from the south isn't a white supremecist. Every jewish person isn't wealthy. Every catholic priest isn't a child molester. Shall I go on?

Your rant is duly noted. You hate muslims, from what I can tell. Otherwise, why would you take the time to cut & paste (and we're so proud you know how to search for something that supports your point of view, and cut & paste it here!) something that is so blatently hateful?

So far as I can tell, no Scientologists were present for any of these historic moments. Do you blame them for 9/11 too?

This is not a conservative or liberal issue. This is a wing nut issue.

Wing nut? What a salty answer!

When I read it, I was sitting on the beech in Brazil. They charge extra for the drinks - but you don't realize it until they cashew out. It would be oak-kay, but the way the drinks down there make you pecan really cause you problems.

Please notice I left out the political reference to Acorn. :)

No cracks about nuts please since that's not suite.
I'd like to post meatier comments but I'm relaxing and listening to an old Allman brothers record, which I had to shell out for by trading a Planter. I had to barter cause unfortunately I work for peanuts and didn't squirrel anything away. But right now I gotta go to the can and take a pistachio.

You're very silly. (that's all I've got)

Call me un-PC, but the Koran and Mohammed's own example clearly encourage violence against non-Muslims. The bible does say some nasty things too, but Jesus didn't kill anyone. Mohammed killed a lot of people.

Most Muslims are fine human beings, but that's because most of them don't take Islam too literally. The minority who are more honest about Islam are the problem. They know exactly what it instructs them to do and they intend to do it.

There is a deep conflict in western society about tolerance. Should tolerance include tolerance of intolerance? Sounds crazy, but it's a really important question.

And if you start to point out that Islam causes violence, you might have to look at these factors at the bible too, even if they are weaker there. Uncomfortable for many.

It appears that Obama was being a politician in this instance. Politicians are in the business of placating. It's their stock and trade. Especially when on foreign soil.

And if you start to point out that Islam causes violence

Islam doesn't cause violence. Nutjobs and/or life pressures cause violence. Islam has sufficient textual and historical teaching to support a violent way of life, but so does Christianity, as the recent events concerning our home-grown "Hutaree" in Michigan attest

There's like a billion f--ing muslims in this world so we're going to have to learn to live with 'em. Our friends on the right harbor sociopathic holocaust desires that would give Himmler a stiffy but it's simply impossible to wipe out a billion people. Leave one or two with the knowledge and tools alive, and they can return the favor.

I lean toward the theory that a f---ed islam is caused by a f---ed society, not the other way around. Kurdish Christians got in the news last decade for stoning a girl who dared to date outside their religion (it was videoed on a phone).

Just recently the thought occurred to me that WWs I and II occurred due to insufficient socialization between the war powers. In WW I the major states had grown-up war toys but a childish view of their place in history and warfare. WW I disabused most in that, but a second helping of war was necessary to fully drive the point home.

The story of this century might, hopefully, be a continued socialization of the various traditions. Before there was a term for it, I thought "Soft Power" was America's greatest strength. I have faith in our institutions and mores -- that they are effective and basically empirically the best things going.

Funny thing, the warmongers to my right don't share this faith in culture. They want to f--k people's shit up too. I think this can cause more problems than it solves.

# Limit Congress from serving more than two terms. That is all that presidents are allowed.

Yeah, maybe. I could go for term limits, but I don't think that would address the larger problem of campaign finance.

# Stop Congress from voting for their own raises. How did that ever get started?

This is kind of, you know, a matter of public record. Congress doesn't vote for "their own" raises either, by the way -- they vote for raises for their successors, which are frequently themselves. You could let their pay stagnate, certainly, but then you'd just see more bribes.

# Stop paying for lawmakers’ high-priced insurance premiums. After all, they are only part-time employees. They might pass some law changes on the insurance companies, if they had to find one.

How do you figure that they're "part-time employees"? You think that a congressman's job is limited to the time he's sitting in the chamber?

# Stop paying lawmakers their full salary after serving just one term, or at retirement. We need to get rid of that pension plan; they’ve let other companies get rid of theirs. You were lucky to get 40 to 50 percent of your salary after working somewhere for 35 years, but they get 100 percent.

Where on earth did this lie come from? Congressional pension doesn't work this way at all -- it's a scaled system, just like most private pension plans. If you retire before 62, you need at least 20-25 years of service.

# Make Congress pay into the Social Security system. They make laws for it. If they spent some of their own money, they might be interested in making it solvent.

Why do you believe that they don't? Congress has been required to pay into social security since 1984, when the CSRS (an equivalent program for government employees) was ended.

# Stop handing out aid to illegal aliens. If we did, then Medicaid and the food stamp program would have enough money to aid the aged and the poor.

Please show me one example of an illegal alien receiving medicaid or food stamps (or really any federal handout). Yes, Some STATES (like California and Texas) choose to give aid to illegal immigrants. That doesn't have much to do with federal programs though.

# Secure our borders.

And how would you propose to do that?

# Stop allowing babies born to illegal aliens in the United States automatic U.S. citizenship.

Yeah, lets rewrite citizenship to suit our arbitrary definition, since our ancestors had to come to america on a BOAT, and these guys only have to walk through deserts. Oh, but our ancestors weren't brown so I guess it's OK.

# Stop the abuse of our benevolent welfare system. We feed children free meals three times a day until they are 17. Churches give away good, clean clothes. Companies buy and donate school supplies. Emergency rooms provide health care at taxpayer expense and the food stamp program is buying food at home. What are parents doing for their children?

Fuck children!

# Have a computer program that cross checks Social Security numbers with fingerprints to stop fraud on many fronts. Use it on voter registration, too.

Holy crap, there's a magic system to stop fraud using only social security numbers and fingerprints? (do you know anything about fraud detection?)

# Stop bailing out mortgage companies and banks that give loans to people who cannot afford them.

# Stop companies from paying CEOs and other executives outrageous salaries and bonuses while doing away with workers’ pensions.

Yeah, stop meddling with the private sector -- and while you're at it, make more rules for the private sector!

# Stop all unnecessary spending so we will have the money for our nation’s security, and to help needy and elderly Americans.

In other words:

"Cut every program except for the military, medicare, and social security, even though those three programs are 90% of the federal budget"

Fucking clueless.

# Stop permitting anyone to have a photo with their face covered on driver’s licenses.

Yeah, and fuck privacy too!

Troy says

Islam has sufficient textual and historical teaching to support a violent way of life, but so does Christianity

No, that's wrong. Islam explicitly and repeatedly, in both word and example of the founder, calls for the murder of those who, say, insult Mohammed. Official stories of Mohammed's life include the murders of the 100-year old man and the pregnant woman who each mocked Mohammed in poetry. It's hyper-violent. Not just a minor or "sufficient textual" thing.

Christianity is just the opposite, with "turn the other cheek" and Jesus forgiving those who insulted and then killed him, and preventing the crowd from stoning the prostitute, for example. The Kurds who stoned that girl were not following Jesus' example for sure.

I'm not religious at all, but the difference is huge. Islam literally means submission. As in "submit or we'll kill you."

Scripture refers to Christ as the "Prince of Peace." Nowhere is there any reference or teaching in the NT where Jesus or his disciples prescribes violence. Christ's kingdom is of a spiritual nature and is clearly stated as such. Islam on the other hand is a conquering religion where its followers are forced to obey with the real threat of death over their heads if they do not. The oppressive governmental systems that Islam produces is the antithesis of freedom of the individual.

It seems that Islam is or has become more or less a political movement rather than a religion. And Christianity seems to be headed in the same direction.
I have no idea what the Agnostics are up to in this regard.

mikey says

It seems that Islam is or has become more or less a political movement rather than a religion. And Christianity seems to be headed in the same direction.
I have no idea what the Agnostics are up to in this regard.

When I think about the vile lance that pierced my muslin this morning, I feel a surge of rage and I slam my fist down in protest. Religion and politics seem to agnostics as one in the same like my friend Jesus Garcia told me. Dj'you wish a plague to fall on others during this time of Passover? If so you are in denial while swimming with crocodiles.

Twelc, great post. One thing Norma forgot would be to force all "elected officials" to be on the same health care "system" they are forcing on the rest of us.

Elected Official = a politician with ethics deficit disorder.

Honest Abe says

Twelc, great post. One thing Norma forgot would be to force all “elected officials” to be on the same health care “system” they are forcing on the rest of us.

Please explain how they are not.

My employer pays for (most of) my health insurance. My congressman's employer pays for his health insurance. We get treated at the same hospitals where they perform the same procedures.

I can't tell if these fucking idiotic arguments are being made by smart people who are trying to fool stupid people, or by stupid people who just don't know what they're talking about.

mikey says

It seems that Islam is or has become more or less a political movement rather than a religion. And Christianity seems to be headed in the same direction.

I have no idea what the Agnostics are up to in this regard.

We mostly wish the religious people would shut the hell up.

Christianity is just the opposite, with “turn the other cheek” and Jesus forgiving those who insulted and then killed him, and preventing the crowd from stoning the prostitute, for example. The Kurds who stoned that girl were not following Jesus’ example for sure.

I’m not religious at all, but the difference is huge. Islam literally means submission. As in “submit or we’ll kill you.”

...and yet isn't it ironic that its christian troops who are continuously invading and occupying muslim countries?... Those Muslim countries sure have been dealt a shitty hand by all the christian cheek turning that's been going on for the past several decades.

As for the "Would our president lie" dingle-berry, check the history books over the previous two terms and get back to me.

also, this article by Chris Hedges seems appropriate here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25100.htm

"Left unchecked, the hatred for radical Islam will transform itself into a hatred for Muslims. The hatred for undocumented workers will become a hatred for Mexicans and Central Americans. The hatred for those not defined by this largely white movement as American patriots will become a hatred for African-Americans. The hatred for liberals will morph into a hatred for all democratic institutions, from universities to government agencies to the press. Our continued impotence and cowardice, our refusal to articulate this anger and stand up in open defiance to the Democrats and the Republicans, will see us swept aside for an age of terror and blood."

Kevin says

We mostly wish the religious people would shut the hell up.

Try living in Utah for awhile!

twelc says

“Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial
mess of those two programs.
“I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons. To start with, it is
estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000 new employees
will be required to administer HB3200. That is an unacceptable expansion
of a government that is already too intrusive in our lives. If we are
going to hire 150,000 new employees, let’s put them to work protecting
our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more law
enforcement/firefighters out there.”

So we ought to put 150k people at the borders and fighting the impossible war on drugs instead of providing healthcare. Do you see it more so important to keep Mexican people out of our country than to improve our healthcare system? Dont you think the war on drugs is as lost a cause as prohibition?

elliemae says

Every muslim isn’t a terrorist. Every white guy from the south isn’t a white supremecist. Every jewish person isn’t wealthy. Every catholic priest isn’t a child molester. Shall I go on?
Your rant is duly noted. You hate muslims, from what I can tell. Otherwise, why would you take the time to cut & paste (and we’re so proud you know how to search for something that supports your point of view, and cut & paste it here!) something that is so blatently hateful?
So far as I can tell, no Scientologists were present for any of these historic moments. Do you blame them for 9/11 too?

Geez...your going hard on TWELC and his white power movement. I think he is a member of the angry white peoples party: REPUBLICAN

Troy says

Islam has sufficient textual and historical teaching to support a violent way of life, but so does Christianity

No, that’s wrong. Islam explicitly and repeatedly, in both word and example of the founder, calls for the murder of those who, say, insult Mohammed. Official stories of Mohammed’s life include the murders of the 100-year old man and the pregnant woman who each mocked Mohammed in poetry. It’s hyper-violent. Not just a minor or “sufficient textual” thing.
Christianity is just the opposite, with “turn the other cheek” and Jesus forgiving those who insulted and then killed him, and preventing the crowd from stoning the prostitute, for example. The Kurds who stoned that girl were not following Jesus’ example for sure.
I’m not religious at all, but the difference is huge. Islam literally means submission. As in “submit or we’ll kill you.”

However, the Pope did send in millions of crusaders to "defend" the Jesus movement during the crusades. All of this was done in Jesus name, so neither group is safe from the hypocrisy of their past or present. I refute both religions based on the fact that if you put people in a desperate enough situation they will revert to animal like behaviours.

The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Latin Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly against Muslims, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the popes. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

4X says

Troy says

Islam has sufficient textual and historical teaching to support a violent way of life, but so does Christianity

No, that’s wrong. Islam explicitly and repeatedly, in both word and example of the founder, calls for the murder of those who, say, insult Mohammed. Official stories of Mohammed’s life include the murders of the 100-year old man and the pregnant woman who each mocked Mohammed in poetry. It’s hyper-violent. Not just a minor or “sufficient textual” thing.
Christianity is just the opposite, with “turn the other cheek” and Jesus forgiving those who insulted and then killed him, and preventing the crowd from stoning the prostitute, for example. The Kurds who stoned that girl were not following Jesus’ example for sure.
I’m not religious at all, but the difference is huge. Islam literally means submission. As in “submit or we’ll kill you.”

However, the Pope did send in millions of crusaders to “defend” the Jesus movement during the crusades. All of this was done in Jesus name, so neither group is safe from the hypocrisy of their past or present. I refute both religions based on the fact that if you put people in a desperate enough situation they will revert to animal like behaviours.
The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Latin Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly against Muslims, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the popes. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, in a Christian opinion....is it also to sin if you murder Muslims, right?

BobK says

Got it. I see the anti-Christian bigotry is epidemic on this board.

I would like to put the Christian & Islamic fanatics in a ring and just let you guys fight it out without involving the rest of us.

Is that bigotry? I'm not clear. Haven't Christians killed Jews too? The French favored burning them alive as I recall. The 2nd "Shepherds' Crusade" started out to kill Moors, but switched to wiping out Jewish communities when they discovered how profitable that was to land speculator friends. I think we should open up the religious warfare box across as wide a range as possible this current Christians-vs-Islam thing is getting really OLD. In professional wrestling they do many more changeups than this.

...and exactly what is wrong with this:

• Closing the Medicare prescription drug "doughnut hole" by 2020. Under current law, Medicare stops covering drug costs after a plan and beneficiary have spent more than $2,830 on prescription drugs. It starts paying again after an individual's out-of-pocket expenses exceed $4,550. Senior citizens stuck in the doughnut hole this year will receive $250 rebates.

• Raising the threshold for imposing the "Cadillac" tax on expensive health insurance plans to coverage valued at more than $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax won't kick in until 2018.

• Imposing an additional 3.8 percent Medicare payroll tax on investment income for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and couples making more than $250,000 a year.

• Eliminating the "Cornhusker Kickback," which gave Nebraska a special exemption from all new Medicaid expenses. The federal government will instead assist every state by picking up 100 percent of the costs of expanded Medicaid coverage between 2014 and 2016, and 90 percent starting in 2020.

• Reducing the fine for individuals who fail to purchase coverage from $750 to $695.

• Increasing the fine on large companies failing to provide health coverage for workers from $750 to $2,000 per employee.

How do we know they have abandoned this?
I'm assuming we'll see a decrease (MBS, unlikely, or Treasuries, more likely) in the Fed's balance sheet when they start paying back the Treasury Supplemental .

The main thing standing in the way of economics as a legitimate science is the intellectual dishonesty that is ubiquitous in academia. In science, we know what a meter is, we know what a degree is, we know what a second is, we know what a kilogram is. In economics, there are no standards of account. A dollar today isn't the same unit of account a dollar tomorrow is. Yet, most economists base their models on the idea of a unit of account that is fixed. When they actually adjust for inflation, they refer to fraudulently massaged and ever changing measures such as the CPI. Economists are incredibly transparent idiots who generally have no clue what they are talking about in their own so called field of expertise.
In the 1920s, when Physicists, Chemists, and Mathematicians proposed theorems and battled it out, they conceded when they were wrong or if someone else was right. Economists? They just rewrite history, massage their data, or outright lie about being right. Oh yeah, and they completely ignore when they were wrong.

Your typical macroeconomists would be akin to a scientist that would try to convince you it is hotter outside by saying the temperature went from 30°C to 70°F. If we recall, GDP was supposedly rising the entire 1st year of this recession.

BobK says

So what I see here is this.
Muslims aggressively invade countries to force people to convert to Islam = GOOD. Who cares that Northern Africa was formerly Christian now is under Muslim occupation, forced to convert or die. Who cares that Spain and parts of France were under Muslim domination until the crusaders drove them out.
Christians call up a self-defense force called the Crusades and that is BAD. I guess Christians are supposed to just die under the Muslim sword.
Got it. I see the anti-Christian bigotry is epidemic on this board.
Absolutely disgusting.

My point was that both religions engage in stupidity.

You are REALLY going to give any credit whatsoever to pending sales when a tax credit is set to expire soon after? Seriously, wake me up after we have had 2 months of rising pending home sales with normal interest rates and ZERO tax credits...

Oh, and don't forget, almost total government support of the mortgage market via FHA (which just so happens to amount to a free down payment with the tax credit...)

Of course it's not all inclusive...but you also need to look at your demographic. The statistics show that the majority of sales are on the lower end (which means the credit has an even bigger impact). Interest rates were also at a historic low coinciding with the last months of the tax credit. And the biggest sales increases are in the cheaper areas (22% in the mid-west, compared to a FALL of 5% in the West...).

My point stands. I am not calling the bottom nor saying we are in the midst of a recovery until all the government funny business stops, and interest rates are at a normal level.

FWIW the 8K tax credit had no bearing on my purchase decision. I still have to send my taxes off. I had it *almost* perfect this year, was going to get $89 back. I did do FHA and the 8K doesn't come close to covering what we had to put out (~20K or so)

I also think interest-rate increases will put downward pressure on the market for awhile. So many buyers are "monthly payment" borrowers that a rise in interest rates will have a direct negative impact on the amount they can buy.

Still looks like the 1930 dead cat bounce only extended through unprecedented govt intervention. Lot of people were wiped out when the real crash happened.

Stronger jobs, services reports send stocks higher

Pending home sales rise 8.2 percent in February

Oil Surges to 17-Month High on Signs of U.S. Economic Growth

TREASURIES-10Y yield hits 4 pct on signs economy picking up

grywlfbg says

I also think interest-rate increases will put downward pressure on the market for awhile. So many buyers are “monthly payment” borrowers that a rise in interest rates will have a direct negative impact on the amount they can buy.

For a home I am a "monthly payment" borrower. I have the credit and income to get in to a more expensive place but there was a "comfort zone" of my monthy outlay. If interest rates rise what you can get at the same price changes. If the higher rate drives the housing market down at the same pace it's all good.

If things are "picking-up" why are 400,000 more people on federal exetnded unemployment?
Why has U6 gone up to 16.9 percent? How does that indicate "stronger jobs"?

Stock market is having it's strongest rally since 1930... what could possibly go wrong?

Wait and see what happen after the summer fever.

Stock is definitely recovering, not the housing market though as the government intervention causing the delay of the inevitable