patrick.net

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/04/the_republican_party_has_no_so.html
http://www.badrepublicans.com/

To be fair, there was also a site that quoted a story about Democrats having no souls. There was also a site that said that Republicans ain't got no soul...

Yeah but how do you measure that? Liberals laugh at the Religious Right in this country, that turn to their book of faith when it comes to quantifying the quality of ones "Soul", then you act as an authority when you start talking about the soulful and soulless of this person against this person.

Atheists talking about Souls is Ironic.

They use our involuntary tax money to bail out Wall Street banks, or they require unlimited premium payments to private insurers

The mandates come with tax subsidies, but if you are a high-income earner I guess you either won't qualify for them or be paying for them with . . . higher income taxes.

The true nature of Republican opposition to the mandate is the simple realization that the rich have just been put on the hook for ~90% of the health care costs of the bulk of the American people. They, rightfully so, preferred the status quo ante where people just were totally fucked if they got sick instead.

The thesis that I repeat here ad nauseam is that the silly borrow & spend policies of the Bush administration put this nation on a very very unsustainable course wrt asset values and general prosperity.

2003-2007 was all a lie essentially, a mirage created by the unsustainable take-on of SIX TRILLION of household debt on top of another THREE TRILLION of government debt.

People are angry about all the lies from the previous administration (that's largely why the Republicans lost the House & Senate in 2006) but don't have any real concrete view of improvements coming in the future.

Just a message of "Hope & Change" ain't going to cut it either.

The problems we face this decade are immense. The honesty we've devoted to actually understanding them is miniscule. The gap is growing.

Troy says

The true nature of Republican opposition to the mandate is the simple realization that the rich have just been put on the hook for ~90% of the health care costs of the bulk of the American people.

Bull Shit! Anyone with a Job is on the hook. Have you been following along, or just reading TheGreatThingsObamaHasDone.com Blogs?

We're at 1400 a month now, and the premiums are going up 59% on top of that. Where have you been, we're not exactly Jeeves and Charles over here!

or, from another point of view, this was just another 22 year old dope-smoking athiest non-Christian that took the cowards approach and attacked innocent women and children ...... hmmmm ... In my opinion, he sure has alot more in common with crazy arab islamist than Conservatives or Beck or Palin (both very much Christian and support morality and non-violent action).

Personal accountibility is not popular on the left side of things, but is very popular on the right. This idiot is 100% responsible for his actions. Just like Malvo was. Just like the army muslim who shot up his comrads was. Just like the gunman in Oregon that walked in a fastfood place and killed cops that were just having lunch. Personal accountibility -- lets use it more often.

I personally would be happy to see this person swing by his neck from a rope, but only right after they hang every other convicted murderer in Az first. A murder 1 conviction is a murder 1 conviction, and here in America all life is equal (that is, everyone lucky enough to actually breath on their own), so before this idiot gets fried, fry those who have been waiting, because the life they took was worth just as much as any other life taken any other time. Murder 1, even when carried out by a crazy person, should result in a swift punishment of death -- preferribly hanging.

In “Who Rules America?” http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/ Prof. Domhoff points out that every concession our ruling class was ever forced to make (social security, unemployment compensation, Medicare, etc) was made only because there was a real threat that they would be violently overthrown.

The ruling class loves social security, unemployment compensation and Medicare. They invented it, they implemented it, and they forced their underlings to pay for it (and in the case of Medicare they also collect the profits from it).

It may be that the ruling class only makes changes when they feel threatened. But the populace of the United States hasn't posed a threat to the establishment in any real way except perhaps the civil rights movement, the Vietnam war protesters or the secessionists of Lincoln's America.

Please don't buy the lie that these programs were concessions made by the ruling class. They generally don't make concessions. They eliminate threats and the most creative way they do it is by getting their underlings to believe that their big brother government leaders are looking out for the people's best interest. The big lie is that we have a right who is self promoting big business and a left who is fighting for the little man. The truth is we have a right who is self promoting big business and a left who is fighting to preserve the illusion that they are fighting for the little man while preserving the big business status quo. The PTB from the "right" and "left" preserve the status quo. Gingrich and Gore, just two sides of the same coin. Bush and Obama, no real change/difference in practice. Just more of the same.

I like that the left realizes that the powers that be and big business cronies are a threat to the lives and liberty of the American people. I just wish they understood that these same powers are funding the candidates from the left as well. We are not going to have real change unless we begin to understand in our national consciousness that corporations have hijacked both parties and we live under corporate regime. Democrats and Republicans alike are responsible for the perpetuation of this regime.

Furthermore, Americans have for 70 years enjoyed the relative ease of life in a productive society. (I would say peaceful society as well but that would be a lie as we have perpetrated war around the world since becoming a superpower in the 1940's, and it is likely that these wars fought and paid for by the working class to the benefit of the elites and their corporations will bankrupt the working class). But our status as leader in productivity is changing. We are no longer a leading exporter and in fact we import much more than we export. We are going to have to either change that or accept a lower standard of living.

Drudgereport is splashing across the headlines the idea that the shooter is a "left-wing pothead".

Rush asserts that Democrats are secretely cheering the shooting because it provides them with another "Oklahoma City style" moment to push through more tyrannical legislation.

Commentors on Fox News website proclaim "Too bad he didn't get Pelosi too," and "Thank God for the Second Amendment" among many others in response to the shooting.

Yes, I do believe the vitriol has been toned down after this tragedy.

Bap33 says

In my opinion, he sure has alot more in common with crazy arab islamist than Conservatives or Beck or Palin (both very much Christian and support morality and non-violent action).

"I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out." -- Glenn Beck, May 17, 2005

Troy says

“I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out.” — Glenn Beck, May 17, 2005

Glen Beck is whining pathetic Teet Mouse, and is as irrelevant as the scum that you brush off your shoe.
The Troys of the Liberal media gives Beck his voice, they feel compelled to rebroadcast and dissect every poor tasteless statement that Critter ever uttered. Why don't Liberals ever retort or dissect the intelligent arguments from both Conservative pundits and politicians. Nope just quote what that shitbrick Beck said on a show with less ratings than a Spongebob season 1 rerun. Then punctuate it by showing a photo shopped pick of a Racist toothless hillbilly.

You guys are Classic. The word I'm looking for is Marxists propaganda. Well played comrades right out of the book of Lenin.

Tenouncetrout says

Troy saysGlen Beck is whining pathetic Teet Mouse, and is as irrelevant as the scum that you brush off your shoe.

16 Tea Party members elected to congress in 2010 and Glen Beck is irrelevant?

Tenouncetrout says

The Troys of the Liberal media gives Beck his voice, they feel compelled to rebroadcast and dissect every poor tasteless statement that Critter ever uttered. Why don’t Liberals ever retort or dissect the intelligent arguments from both Conservative pundits and politicians.

So the media, by calling out and reporting Glen Beck's vitriol, are guilty of actually spreading more vitriol rather than awareness of it? So this is like newspapers in 1939 reporting on Nazi propoganda being guilty of spreading Nazi propoganda? Don't blame the Nazis, blame the messenger. The New York Times caused World War 2. Yeah, right.

“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” -Sinclair Lewis

Conservative pundits and politicians' intelligent arguments are rebutted quite often and effectively. The problem is that the Right-Wing Media power does NOT report on this. You blame the messenger for causing bad things. The left blames the right wing media for NOT reporting bad things.

Bap33 says

or, from another point of view, this was just another 22 year old dope-smoking athiest non-Christian that took the cowards approach and attacked innocent women and children …… hmmmm … In my opinion, he sure has alot more in common with crazy arab islamist than Conservatives or Beck or Palin (both very much Christian and support morality and non-violent action).
Personal accountibility is not popular on the left side of things, but is very popular on the right. This idiot is 100% responsible for his actions. Just like Malvo was. Just like the army muslim who shot up his comrads was. Just like the gunman in Oregon that walked in a fastfood place and killed cops that were just having lunch. Personal accountibility — lets use it more often.
I personally would be happy to see this person swing by his neck from a rope, but only right after they hang every other convicted murderer in Az first. A murder 1 conviction is a murder 1 conviction, and here in America all life is equal (that is, everyone lucky enough to actually breath on their own), so before this idiot gets fried, fry those who have been waiting, because the life they took was worth just as much as any other life taken any other time. Murder 1, even when carried out by a crazy person, should result in a swift punishment of death — preferribly hanging.

I think it is brilliant taste that you can buy this today:

http://www.zazzle.com/tea_party_rally_we_came_unarmed_this_time_tshirt-235426866986316482

For those not wanting to click on the link, it is a Tea Party Rally shirt you can buy for $22 that says:

"We came unarmed (this time)"

Bap33 - Will you agree that this constitutes an existential threat to non-Tea Party people, the wearer assumes 100% responsibility, and that I can now start shooting Tea Party members in pre-emptive self defense? Seems reasonable according to conservative principles.

shrekgrinch says

SoCal Renter says

Bap33 - Will you agree that this constitutes an existential threat to non-Tea Party people, the wearer assumes 100% responsibility, and that I can now start shooting Tea Party members in pre-emptive self defense? Seems reasonable according to conservative principles.

Truthfully (I’m not Bap33 but will answer that unsolicited if it means I can piss even more people off than I usually do), I’ve always wondered how Liberals can be such dumb-asses when it comes to their fervent drive to totally piss off millions of gun-owners in this country. I mean, THEY OWN GUNS, people! Liberals usually don’t.
So, do ‘the math’. While your average Winchester hunting rifle won’t stand up to the National Guard on their worst day of the month, it is more than enough to kill unarmed liberals who stupidly & arrogantly think that they are somehow immune from the wrath of an armed people descended from folks that did take up arms against their government before (Parliament and King George).
Or, just the occasional nutjob with a gun. Either way…its not exactly smart to piss these folks off.
Yet, Libbies do it all the time and are even ramping it up right now. Brilliant!
This is one of the main reasons why I keep saying you libs live in some Reality-Free-Zone. It is amazing, really.

Anyone else reading shrek like he's saying the answer to my question is "Yes"? Scary.

I'm glad shrek is saying what Palin, Beck, O'Reilly, Rush and Hannity don't have the balls to say outloud (but they all think), which is basically, "Conservatives lack the intellectual capacity to peacefully participate in the democratic process so don't anger them or they will use violence against you".

I did 'the math' and Conservatives talk a lot of shit and kill little girls. Sickening.

SoCal Renter says

Bap33 - Will you agree that this constitutes an existential threat to non-Tea Party people, the wearer assumes 100% responsibility, and that I can now start shooting Tea Party members in pre-emptive self defense? Seems reasonable according to conservative principles.

no, I think this points to the right of Americans to be armed. Nothing wrong with being armed in my world. As a matter of fact, an armed populous removes this type of act from the equasion by 99%, and the chances of needing a trial for the 1% that does still happen is not very likely.

But, to answer your question: No. You should not feel threatened by Conservative Americans carring weapons. You should feel comforted by it. But, you should also be armed to defend yourself and others from unlawful attack .. such as this action, or some Gov action, or mass revolt by people that do not like you, and feel they sould be able to kill you and take what they have been getting for nothing thus far .... seems like a good idea to be prepaired for self defense in my opinion, and civil defense too.

Also, please refrain from making this a personal thing, I'm just sharing my view and I'm not doing so with a hope of becoming a pin(ya)ta. Thanks.

SoCal Renter says

I did ‘the math’ and Conservatives talk a lot of shit and kill little girls. Sickening.

the mental illness among them is palpable. What's the deal with Boehner crying all the time. It's like he's undergoing a psychotic break. Maybe they're all psychotic now.

Bap33 says

no, I think this points to the right of Americans to be armed. Nothing wrong with being armed in my world. As a matter of fact, an armed populous removes this type of act from the equasion by 99%,

Right... instead of what happened today we'd have a couple dozen dead people.

and the chances of needing a trial for the 1% that does still happen is not very likely

See, the thing is, the messages of violence are just so ingrained into the thinking patterns that you don't even recognize how disturbing they are. Life isn't comic books and actions and words have repercussions. Its the lack of admission of this and this disconnect that does indeed make me very nervous about conservatives carrying guns, personally.

Ask yourself this: why is it Canada and Switzerland have higher per capita gun ownership rates than the US but have murder rate that are fractional of what it is in the US?

kentm says

why is it Canada and Switzerland have higher per capita gun ownership rates than the US but have murder rate that are fractional of what it is in the US

less crime-ridden society for one. Black-on-black crime is immense in this country.

The per-capita GDP of Switzerland is about twice ours, and they don't have the socio-economic history of segregation etc that is responsible for so much extant inequality here in the US. On the contrary, they're (AFAICT) a tight-knit homogenous nation state with a long history of sensible coexistence and codevelopment.

I don't know anything about Canada but it's mostly rural and has space for people to really spread out, and a booming resource economy, and lots of socialism to lessen poverty pressures that drive our crime.

Did the guy drive a car to the Grocery store?
If so, we need to out law driving cars as well.
So those Right wing nuts don't make an obscure T-Shirt that nobody will never see, that says. "Drive down a Liberal today." and then some Lefty propagandist will then no doubt post it Ad Nauseum on every political discussion forum and blog on this side of Google China.

Slow news day Kent?

kentm says

Bap33 says
no, I think this points to the right of Americans to be armed. Nothing wrong with being armed in my world. As a matter of fact, an armed populous removes this type of act from the equasion by 99%,
Right… instead of what happened today we’d have a couple dozen dead people.

I disagree. And there is no evidence that says only police can aim a gun. Besides, if the boogymanization of weapons would be put to an end, and HighSchool would start teaching weapons as an elective, just like driving a car, then the unrealistic fear of weapons would be removed. As a matter of fact, the fear of an armed populous is more important than any thing else for securing the freedoms we enjoy. All of our freedoms are secured by weapons, bullets, and people willing to use them. Every last one. Including freedom from defending ourselves from getting shot by crazy dope smoking cult member leftists like this idiot in AZ.

Also, no Conservative I personally know would be swayed by cool signs or clever web sites ... Besides, if they were swayed by such things they would be liberals by now. After all, that is the progressive liberals trump card --- hip catch phrases .... like, "Tea Bagger", for example.

From where I'm sitting, I find it distrurbing how far those on the left are trying to push this shooter to the right ... and profess that he did this based on the words of a few people on the radio or tv ... without any proof of his listening (or agreeing) with any part of what is said by Beck or Palin ... and yet, they ignore the absolute facts about this idiot .... it is disturbing.

Calling for less political discourse ... after the crap Barry and Co has pulled over the last few years ... ummm .. not likely.

And the boarder issue is going to explode right about now too. Just hide and watch.

kentm says

the messages of violence are just so ingrained into the thinking patterns that you don’t even recognize how disturbing they are.

avoid personal attacks ... I do. Do you support personal accountability?

As I said above, "messages" don't work on everyone. If they did I would vote Demoncrat, smoke dope, and drive a Prius - after all, I have lived in California my entire 40+ life!!

Bap33 says

Including freedom from defending ourselves from getting shot by crazy dope smoking cult member leftists like this idiot in AZ.

You hope/wish he is leftist, and not swayed by the 24 - 7 inflamatory content of programs like Limbough, Beck, and other talk radio pundits.

Bap33 says

Also, no Conservative I personally know would be swayed by cool signs or clever web sites … Besides, if they were swayed by such things they would be liberals by now.

Funny....

So you don't think that Rush and Glenn are constantly inflammatory ? They present in a very neutral way both sides, and then in a very detached way explain their very well reasoned point of view. Sorry, but what they say sounds like pumped up right wing emotion to me.

That's a message.

And if right wingers aren't tripping over each other to buy it all, hook line and sinker, then why does it sell so much ad time and make them so much money ?

Maybe those guys are in fact high integrity individuals who are on a spiritual mission to save america. If it so happens that they can get super rich because for some reason their message which is so objectively true, sells like hotcakes (to whom ?), then hey, I guess they have to accept it.

Not meaning to level personal attacks at you Bap33. We've had multiple civil debates over the years.

I'm not sure how this is twisting into a Gun Banning debate, but I'm not a liberal who wants to outlaw guns. The discussion has been the Right Wing Vitriol pouring forth from libertarian and Tea Party activits (who are welcomed under the Conservative and Republican umbrella).

Words have consequences. Inflammatory rhetoric that advocates and suggests violence has real world consequences. And as Shrekginch so gleefully points out, it terrorizes the targets of the propaganda.

What happens to the discussion when the Left begins utilizing the same violent propaganda? Gun owners are not exclusively right-wing, as conservatives like to think. In fact, Giffords was a proud gun owner and there are plenty of gun toting liberals across America.

The idea that citizens with guns make a society more polite and law-abiding has been disproven empirically. Anyone who has been in a shoot or be shot situation knows that fine motor skills decrease as stress increases. They even did a study where they armed an entire class full of college students with paint guns and told them a shooter was going to come in the class. No one could pull and fire their weapon before the shooter entered the classroom and shot up the place. Lastly, look at Afghanistan and Mexico. Gun control is non-existant. Wonderful examples of laisse faire gun control.

Proper gun usage in combat situations requires FAR more training than merely driving a car.

Stop getting all your news from Fox and the Drudgereport. Loughner is clearly a right wing libertarian who believes in the David Wynn Miller conspiracies.

Lastly, can we stop demonizing pot smokers? The only thing I've ever seen a pot smoker kill was freezer full of hot pockets at 3am. Fox News keeps repeating the pot thing without mentioning the major alchohol abuse. Loughner clearly abused alchohol according to sources and was even hospitalized after passing out in class. The doper thing just further exposes Fox's lack of credibility.

That is correct ... I do not think any pundit is to be held responsible for the actions of a crazy DOPE-HEAD cult member. No more than you can blame their parents, teachers, or second cusins .... funny, this guys parents have not yet been examined.

Anyone have any idea on the number of 22 year old dope smoking cultists that vote, and vote conservative, listen to Rush, and have an alter to satan in the back yard.

Now, how many dope smoking anti-God, 22 year olds vote for nothing but D's?

Pretty cool how facts work huh? I know, I did not include any facts - but EVERYONE knows what I'm inferring is TRUE! Took my cue from the left!

Why is the left hunting for someone to blame other than the DOPE-HEAD, ANTI-CHRISTIAN, CRAZY PERSON that pulled the trigger? What I said above, about this guy being more like a crazy arab terrorrist than any Conservative I know, still sounds right to me.

It is shamefull how the leftist media and their loyal menions are treating this. Shamefull

It would appear that dope smokers should not be armed. A great reason for a law against armed dope smokers.

Bap33 says

It is shamefull how the leftist media and their loyal menions are treating this. Shamefull

Really. I wonder whether you are hearing that from actually listening to leftist media?

Because when I listen to leftist media (you know Palin's "lame stream media") mostly what I am hearing is along these lines: "We don't really know the politics of this young man or whether there was any connection to politics or political commentary, but do you think maybe this is a time to look at how inflamatory the dialogue is ?"

Everyone knows that the emotions and dialogue in AZ runs very hot, I guess mostly because of immigration. Isnt it AZ that even has laws against having certain types of classes that teach about other cultures ? They do happen to have a deep right wing streak there, and some very emotional contentious political debates. Some would even say a lot of racst hate talk.

Did you see the way people tried to use emotion and ugly rude behavior to shut down any calm meaningful objective discussion of health care at those town hall meetings the summer before last. Sure it is their right.

I guess if hate and emotion are working for you and your party, then the leftists who say, "even if this shooting was not political, maybe we could use this as an opportunity to tone down the discussion for the benefit of all," are being shameful.

I get it. Hate and bullying with emotion is working for us. Don't let the shameful liberals use this to take that away from us.

marcus says

I guess if hate and emotion are working for you and your party, then the leftists who say, even if this shooting was not political, maybe we could use this as an opportunity to tone down the discussion for the benefit of all,
are being shameful.

1) protected speech - Constitutional
1a) inflamitory speech - Constitutional
2) hate speech - Progressive Liberal tool used to quiet those they disagree with. Arbitrary. Unconstitutional.
2a)"toned down" - who gets to decide what gets to be said, by who, and how often? Very Arbitrary. Unconstitutional.

Are you interested in having someone descide what you are allowed to say or write?

Bap33 says

Are you interested in having someone descide what you are allowed to say or write?

OH jeez. You have to be kidding.

Ironic that this is coming from you, someone who mostly insists on being a gentleman.

Nobody is wildy thinking of new laws here.

But some are hoping (wishing) to tone down the conversation. Nobody is trying to impose anything. It would be as if you and I were arguing and it started getting ugly, and then for whever reason there was something that was a catalyst for us saying, lets not have this be so emotional and ugly. Maybe it would even be more productive if we acted as grown ups.

I think that what is really bothering you is that the most inflammatory hateful sort of messages out there are coming from the likes of Rush and talk radio. So when people talk about toning things down, you are seeing it through that lens, as maybe quelling some messages that you like or agree with.

I must have misunderstood.

Do you want limits on speech?

If you do not, then fine, we are all done on that subject.

But, if you do, you should explain how that can be anything other than limiting speech. And who gets to choose, when, why them, ect ect.

You suggest there is something bothering me .... nope. Only the common actions/pontifications of the left spark my desire to point out where they are horribly wrong and anti-American..... but, not bothered, really. If you read my first post, it pretty much covered it. No need to be offended.

I'm going to not post anymore about this, to avoid being a target. Cheers.

Bap33 says

If you do not, then fine, we are all done on that subject.

I don't.

Bap33 says

You suggest there is something bothering me

I was reacting to the "shameful" comment.

Once again, I must state how I feel... I realize that ya'll have been waiting on pins & noodles for this:

I own a gun. I like guns - I've shot them many times. I've shot an AK-47, and it was fun. Deer rifles knock me over from the kick, but they're fun too. They can hurt people when used correctly, and when they're used incorrectly. Guns don't kill people, but the gaping wounds in vital organs that they leave definitely kill people.

I've also smoked pot. Many times. I like pot. Pot doesn't kill people, and it's not been proven to cause lung cancer or any bad stuff. Pot makes me mellow and I don't feel like using my guns when I smoke it.

Of course, I'm not mentally ill. If I were, it would be a game changer. Mentally ill people hear messages from different sources and believe that they're directed at them - and act in strange ways in response to the messages.

Palin & Beck and the hatemongers (whether republican or democrats) created an atmosphere of hatred, to which this guy responded. While they're not personally accountable, they should shut the fuck up.

Bap33 says

...more in common with crazy arab islamist than Conservatives...

Are you really trying to claim that "crazy arab islamist" arent *conservative*?

I mean. Really. I just. Fuck.

You're not helping.

LOL

elliemae says

Palin & Beck and the hatemongers (whether republican or democrats) created an atmosphere of hatred, to which this guy responded. While they’re not personally accountable, they should shut the fuck up.

I would bet everything, that this guys beef, was Not caused by what Beck or Palin ever said.
This guys beef was so far off from Left vs. Right agendas, that he was just a nutcase and mentally disturbed.
Him shooting up the Safeway for his demented view, is like running into the Dry Cleaners and shooting every one because Denny's screwed up his over easy eggs.

It's possible his mental illness was exasperated by the political discourse these days.
If that's the case, I would bet it was self righteous smug Liberals on the internet, that constant berates anyone that is not a Liberal, posts picks like the one of Palin listed above, or the photo shopped Tea Party pics that were circulating in the election season, that would have had more to do with it, than what Palin, Beck, or Limbaugh collectively ever said.

You guys are the biggest Shit slingers out there, and I find it very RICH that you guys sanctimoniously act like, Palin and Beck have the monopoly on Political hate and Fear mongering.

They should outlaw high capacity magazine clips in public and limit them to shooting ranges and licensed hunting preserves. There is absolutely no reason someone needs a high capacity clip in public.

All the right-wing gun nuts who want high capacity clips survive with land mines being outlawed. What about my constitutional right to bare arms in the form of land mines? A high capacity clip and a land mine are equally destructive. In fact, there have been NO reported deaths from land mines in the United States in the past decade.

SoCal Renter says

A high capacity clip and a land mine are equally destructive.

Are you new to the deep end, or did the AZ psychopath just cause you to fall off?

shrekgrinch says

After all, who cares about the rest of the Constitution when the parts we don’t like are open game for pissing all over?

I notice you completely ignored his point. The Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms. Where do YOU draw the line? Or does that guarantee me the right to own nuclear bomb or 10? Or biological weapons?

tatupu70 says

I notice you completely ignored his point. The Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms. Where do YOU draw the line? Or does that guarantee me the right to own nuclear bomb or 10? Or biological weapons?

Don't worry tatupu70. When losing an argument, the followers of Beck will slap on a neatly tailored tin foil hat, stick their fingers in their ears, and start screaming about the Constitution.

shrekgrinch says

Note the word ‘nobody’…no qualifications about who he refers to as nobody. So therefore, he is defining it as ‘anybody not doing…[rest of verb action of his sentence here]’.

Hmmm...Shrek is breaking out the whole "CURRENCY OF GRAMMER" argument. I'm starting to think Loughner has Internet access in his jail cell....

shrekgrinch says

tatupu70 says

I notice you completely ignored his point. The Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms. Where do YOU draw the line? Or does that guarantee me the right to own nuclear bomb or 10? Or biological weapons?

Tatu…try READING for a change before typing on the keyboard, ok?
I did not ignore it I WAS REFERRING TO IT. But you seem to be oblivious to that fact because you didn’t follow back far enough where it is clear I was referring to SoCal Renter deciding all on his own to amend the right to bear arms how he sees fit.

No, actually, you completely missed his point and went on a ramble of your own making. You can say you referred to it, but sadly, saying it doesn't make it true. If you had actually acknowledged it, then I wouldn't have posted.

I'm having a good day, so I'll give you another chance. Where do YOU draw the line? Where does the Constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms end? Or does it end? Should I be entitled to put land mines in my yard? Or have nuclear missiles in my garage? Or a store of bio weapons in my basement?

SoCal Renter says

16 Tea Party members elected to congress in 2010 and Glen Beck is irrelevant?

Who in the Hell is Glen Beck? The National Tea Party Gand Dragon?

Get a hold of your self SoCal, you either high opinion of your self and your cause, or a low opinion of everyone who disagrees with you. Or possibly both.

Hitler was a national dictator, not a T.V. host or 2008 political candidate.