patrick.net

if you expect to compete with returns from housing as an investment
you need to buy stocks on margin which is highly risky. You can lose everything.

I like houses because no matter how much the value drops at least you're left with the house.
Doesn't require constant monitoring of your portfolio because It will never go to zero.

Those are some sweeping generalizations on stocks vs housing. Stock don't always rise with inflation. They performed pretty poorly during the inflation of the 1970s. Stocks can be an inflation hedge. As far as dividends go, the dividend yields in the U.S. are pathetic when you look at the corporate profits over the years. There's a time to own each and every asset class and at any given time, one can be more favorable than another. I personally, would agree that "some" stocks will perform well during inflation.

ChrisLA says

can’t stand extreme left liberalism or extreme rightism

? You judge them based on the supposed delivery methods, over the ideas represented?...

What's extreme ?

The trend is toward corruption and away from democracy.

Many people think single payer is extreme, I think it's conservative, and inevitable (in some form).

@Shrek

I dont see anything wrong with Obama stepping in to stop a genocidal dictator...lets compare this to the missteps by Clinton and his failures to prevent the genocides of Rwanda.

How can anyone compare this to Iraq? Afghanistan?

This is going to be a long thread. Who likes Fox News or believes them (of those around this site)? Even RayAmerica doesn't watch them much.

Clarence 13X says

Federal laws protect workers today, not unions.

You know, its interesting that you say that. Coming up soon is the anniversary of the usually well known "Triangle ShirtWaist Fire", look it up, its getting a lot of press lately, where ... about 150 people died in a garment factory fire because company bosses had locked exit doors. There were no regulations then about safety and working conditions then, as there are today.

The incident is well known as leading to "legislation requiring improved factory safety standards", but not until a union had re-formed - the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union - which fought tenaciously for better working conditions for sweatshop workers. A lot of strikes and demonstrations forced the hand of the government legislators, to the legislation that forced companies to adhere to safer working practices didn't just appear magically out of thin air, dispensed magically by the loving hand of the business interests.

Your problem is that you've clearly grown up in an atmosphere where you take the advances and rights that have been forced into existence by difficult and dangerous collective action - by workers and women - as a given thing. You have no idea of the history of your own country.

Is this because of the continuous piles of shit delivered daily by Faux News?

Clarence 13X says

I dont see anything wrong with Obama stepping in to stop a genocidal dictator

Um, "laws"... "process"...? Remember those things? Just because you happen to, at the moment, not like someone does not give you reason to support this kind of action against them. You're kind of really a mess, logically, aren't you?

I understand though, you've been fed this diet of 'personal self-sufficiency' - which sounds great and strong - and of 'left-wing-freeloaders' etc, haven't you?

This action is completely legal and appropriate. We did the exact same thing under NATO during the Kosovo War.

I fail to understand all of the hand-wringing about this action from the far left. Are we going to sit idly by in our warships while Qaddaffi slaughters peaceful protesters?

Congress pre-approved this action with its ratification of the UN Security Council treaties. Obama's actions are completely appropriate and legal.

How do these compare to all the lies told by ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, and almost all major city newspapers, all of which are extremely liberal in their bias?

Dan Rather got canned for that blunder.

SoCal : Yes, we should. Because then those peaceful protesters won't want our precious oil!

It's such a reflex for Fox News to lie without even bothering to check the facts.

One of the writers of the story, Fox's Jennifer Griffin, clarified her story Monday evening. Griffin said she had been unaware that a member of the Fox team, a security guard, was given a camera and went on the trip to Gadhafi's compound.

"I have since learned that Fox did indeed go. I did not know about that earlier today. That is my mistake and I apologize for the error," Griffin said on Greta Van Susteren's show.

The Times of London -- which like Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation -- backed the Fox version of events in a front-page story Monday.

"The Times and other foreign media effectively became temporary human shields on Sunday night when we agreed to be bussed in by officials to Colonel Gadhafi's main compound in Tripoli to visit the site of an allied missile attack," Deborah Haynes wrote in a story datelined Tripoli.

Iit's such an ATTRACTIVE lie isn't it? Although I suppose you could claim one lazy liar has just copied another lazy liar without bothering to look for updates or corrections. No pattern there eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/22/libya.robertson.report/index.html?hpt=T1

kentm says

Anne Coulter… she doesn’t even believe her own BS, has often admitted as much,

Being that she has "often admitted " that, I'm sure you'll be able to provide us all with specific examples.

zzyzzx says

Do you even watch Fox News?

Well, I watch Fox “news” from time to time. I also watch CNN, PBS, ABC, The Onion News Network, CBS, MSNBC and CSpan from time to time.

Fox is by far and away the most biased media outlet in the US. It rivals the propaganda output of the Chinese national news.

If you are unaware that the “liberal media” is a myth, then you have been watching too much Fox.

However, like any rational thinking person I would agree that MSNBC has a liberal bias, but that said they lie and distort the truth at levels FAR less than Fox.

Patrick,

Clumsy me. I tried to vote this as a "good post" but I missed and hit the red one (so one of them is mine). But being curious, I voted it as a good story (so one of those is mine too!) That means we can vote on each once... The real count should be 3-1 up to now.

kentm says

Clarence 13X says

I dont see anything wrong with Obama stepping in to stop a genocidal dictator

Um, “laws”… “process”…? Remember those things? Just because you happen to, at the moment, not like someone does not give you reason to support this kind of action against them. You’re kind of really a mess, logically, aren’t you?
I understand though, you’ve been fed this diet of ‘personal self-sufficiency’ - which sounds great and strong - and of ‘left-wing-freeloaders’ etc, haven’t you?

Let me share my story with you again, so that you can stop with the LEFT vs RIGHT antics.

I was raised in extreme poverty, have been homeless 3 times in my life. Lived in Compton and Watts during my highschool years. While in High School we barely had enough food after the 15th of the month so I waited until the end of the line to bring home the scraps. I was not gifted but driven, so my teachers put me in the AP classes and so called GATE programs. I also took up my first job in Highschool to help supplement my fathers menial pay, which, was a direct result of the Jim Crow era that prevented blacks from seeking better employment during the 40s, 50s, 60s. I went to college, unlike many others who sat along side me in High School twiddling their thumbs to the sound of NWA (NIGGAS WIT' ATTITUDES). I went off the college while my peers stayed home following Dre, Eazy-E, Ice Cube and Snoop's thug nation of stupidity. I have spent the last 15 years building up my skillsets so that I can never again be homeless and be at the mercy of Jim Crow or any of the impoverished thoughts, enslaved mentalities that prevail in Compton and Watts.

I applaud the Democratic party for its passage of Civil, Womens rights....however, I do not bend over backwards for every Democratic protest nor do I stand against every Republican piece of legislation. I am not obligated to support the Unions, Gays, Teachers, or any other group affiliated with Liberalism simply because my parents were poor.

If my peers in Compton want to move forward in life, then they should go back to school, educate themselves and build up their skillsets. Their is not a Union or a President in the world that will ever save them from laziness, mental illness or drug addiction.

Your pathetic, simple minded support of Unions is why we cant reform Government, Educational, wastes. This can also be said of the Healthcare wastes which are a result of blind support of Republicans.

You want my Union Support:

1. Fire all the Lemon Teachers who waste millions of tax payers dollars simply because they have tenure (After 2 Years) and cannot be let go. New York alone has 100 million in tenure salaries for teachers who deserve to be fired (See Waiting for Superman).

2. Fire all the Lemon assistants who wast millions of tax payer dollars griping about how underpaid they are, when in reality their bosses should be typing their own memos.

3. Stop holding companies, governments, school districts hostage simply because the reforms present threaten your entire existence.

No one cares about Unions but union employees because Federal laws protect the workers not the unions. Unions simply keep undeserving, bad workers from being removed fired....that is all they do and ever will be able to do now that they have achieved the greatest 99% progress with the passage of workers rights.

Your pathetic. Find someone with a lower IQ to debate with because I dont debate with FOOLS, I teach them!

shrekgrinch says

Clarence 13X says
How can anyone compare this to Iraq? Afghanistan?
Not the general wars and occupations, but the incidents of photos/videos of ‘atrocities’ (most of what you saw at Abu Graib goes on freely in SF, for example) that get everyone all jazzed up…except if Obama is President, it seems.

I agree, he knows how to deliver a better message than any president before which is why he could say to all of us "Kiss My ***" and a million people would line up the next day.

seriously wounded casualties majority form 2008 and after ( Afghanistan )

I stopped by for a gander cause I was feeling down and I must say that this topic is really daffy and it takes too many cheep shots. What the flock? I find it hard to swallow. Are folks really this gull-able?
Is this forum going to seed?
Buoy oh buoy what a beak I'm having. Sorry if I sound a little soar. I should sparrow the drama.
I hope this post fits the bill. I did it on a lark. Maybe I should tweet about it but for now I'm going back to puffin before I go coo-coo. Why? Just be-caws.
Egrets? I have a few but then again too few to mention.

Comedy is Tragedy + Time.

Sometimes it is better to ask, is it too soon.
Maybe Gilbert should go on a crack binge and post Youtube diatribes against Aflac.
He might get a multi city tour out of it, and even his old job back, if he throws enough hookers and blow at his problems.

Bubble Bobble says

Then again, my house beats affordability ratings for the past 40 years…. and we could pay it off in under 3 years if we really focused.

Then who cares??

I was thinking of buying in the Fall 2011 in Fort Lauderdale, Fl. I can't see prices coming down another 30-35% after a 50% drop already. Maybe another 10-15%. South Florida would be in a depression if housing dropped a total of 85%. No?

This is very common, it doesn't change the terms of the loan, is no big deal and it means nothing.....They made a couple of bucks on it and freed up some of their capital. In fact, it will be sold a number of times over the years.

Hello,

My mother who is 75 yrs old has been approved for a HUD 56,000 home which is 10 years old in a nice newer nieghborhood and in very good shape, she had planned putting 12,000 down. She has spoken to someone about getting a reverse mortgage they said she would have no payments and could live basically payment free but still has the option to make payments if she wants to on the balance. (she is on a very fixed income) The broker is telling her about the reverse mortgage and that she would need to put down at total of 40 percent or $23,000 rather than $12,000 to do this and he would give her a 5.6% rate. Is this a good idea? Is 5.6 a good interest rate for a reverse mortgage? He said she would be able to make payments on the balance if she wanted and at any amount that she wanted then in the event of her passing away her heir would have the option to pay the balance off and buy the house at that time. Is this a rip off in any way? I would hate for her to find out that she sunk her money into something that would be a bad deal. It sounded ok to me at first but then wondering if there is anything that she should be aware of before closing the deal?

Thank You,

Ms2222

Ms2222 says

Hello,

My mother who is 75 yrs old has been approved for a HUD 56,000 home which is 10 years

What does this have to do with the title of the thread. If you can't keep to the subject, please create your own thread, but don't hijack somebody else's.

Whats median from 1975 adjusted for real levels, factoring inflation?

You act surprised, OP. Banks aren't in the loan business anymore; they are in the business of sucking off the government's teat, getting handouts, fucking their customers with fees and commissions, and paying themselves big fat bonuses. The government is still backing over 90% of all loans. The only thing that's surprising is that you would have expected otherwise.

$155,000 or so.

I think his median price was of NEW homes. Now the medium price is a around 220K, but new homes are bigger than they used to be, what with Mcmansions and all. Still, dropping another 15 - 20% could easily happen, but it sure would hurt considering how invested everyone is in propping prices up. But then that's also the reason why it can happen.

Yes. I think that's common with homebuilders also (our case). Funny part is it was told to Fannie (IIRC) but is serviced by BofA. Figure that one out.

kentm says

Whats median from 1975 adjusted for real levels, factoring inflation?

Accoriding to government statistics:
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

$102,059.98, but it only goes back to 1980. But I would consider any appilcable wages after taxes and other increased costs comparison from 1975 to be the more appropriate calculation to use. I.E. - affordability for housing comes in after you figure in how much more (proportionately) people are paying for property taxes, insurance, etc.

If this was important to you, you should have paid attention to the disclosure when you submitted your loan application. This disclosure states the percentage of loans the institution sold in the prior calendar year. That number is a good indicator whether they are likely to keep your loan.
When we refi'd in 2008, the news was full of stories about misplaced notes and deeds on loans that were sold multiple times. We knew we were going to accelerate our payments for early payoff. It was important to us to keep the loan with the originator, to reduce potential for problems getting our deed. So we used our credit union. They keep 100% of their loans.
A couple of months prior to payoff I'm going to contact them to ask their procedure. I've read of this also. People sending in a final payment but not contacting the bank ahead of time, so nobody processes the paperwork to cancel the note and release the deed.

Do Banks carry mortgages anymore? I don't think so.

I recently asked my credit union if they had any REO's that I might make an offer on. Not a one. All their loans have been sold off.

I generally like what Charles Hugh Smith writes, but in this case I can't agree with this extreme statement on this topic. Hmmm...

Fall baby fall. :-)

I'm looking at a Fannie Mae foreclosure, but they are trying to recover the entire loan. No way.

I went with a credit union that carries it's own loans when I refinanced. They make money by loaning (and fees), and not just fees and passing the buck. I like the idea of being able to go talk to the people who have my loan in person.

When we first got the house, our loan was sold as soon as the ink was dry, like yours. They typically have the deal already "done" before you sign the papers.

kentm says

Whats median from 1975 adjusted for real levels, factoring inflation?

For folks that are not fans of "Voo Doo Economics" you guys sure like going for that inflation adjustment crap. Supply and Demand, but mostly demand dictates prices. You don't adjust Apple stock do you?

But to really be fair, to adjust for housing from 1952 to now, you would have to compare materials used, craftsmanship, the supply chain then compared to now. And a 3 br 1200 sq ft house would cost closer to 500K.

Working with hard wood frames, steel plumbing, lathe and plaster walls, Craftsmen that had to spend 12 years as journey men to hone their skills, today a GC drives by the over pass and picks up his drywall mudders and slab form builders and pourers. The building materials were bought from retail mom and pop out lets, with a focus on quality because the artisans that used the materials accepted no less than the standards they demanded. Today you buy the same crap at Home Depot or Lowes whether it's for a McMansion or Habitat for Humanity home. Nothing about older homes match up to data on newer homes they are two different animals. Adjusting for inflation is a moot cause. At best you can determine the income to cost ratio for a house, compared to then vs now. But it wont be comparing apples to oranges, unless you found the last Carpenter with the flat pencil behind his ear, and the folding tape measure, to build you house.

"my god am I pissed."

Perfectly normal and happens everyday. Sometimes you never hear about it.

Factoring of receivables is done by many types of businesses.

SF ace says

Everything else is really irrelvant, including who holds the loan. I would be looking to see if they are building equity and providing good rates then whether they hold on to the loan.

Well that's you. I explained why it is important to me who holds my mortgage. I never cared about it in previous mortgages. You may never care about it.

Why get jumpy? Inventory is low and should come up soon... maybe. How much does all of this REALLY matter for a long term investor?

BTW, not I'm trying to get your goat. Just a thought question.