patrick.net

And there's no doubt in My mind, that you have been anywhere in the World past a book in a Liberal Library.

It's OK State the World's pretending with you.

just_passing_through says

This is one of the articles I'd read:

http://www.statesman.com/business/california-lawmakers-say-they-need-to-follow-texas-1404748.html

Let's see concrete data, not random ideologues engaging in confirmation bias. What specific things in Texas worked and why and what data shows that they worked?

California also has a more skilled workforce, a critical mass in technology, a better venture capital environment, etc. Taxes don't tell you everything. It highly depends on the business. If California lost most of its jobs in food service, and Texas gained its jobs in food service, I'm not sure California wants to emulate Texas.

thunderlips11 says

But I think you are/have been in Peru/Chile. You gotta be able to taste the difference, and notice the prices ain't that crazy.

That is what has prompted my rant.

They have a huge national grocer here called Tottus, it's like their Wal Mart. The Groceries there are the same price as back in the states. A Chicken is 16 Sol's that's about 6 or 7 American bucks, my wife said she gets 2 for $8.00 back in the States. But that's on Sale. But it was a bigger chicken and didn't looked all pumped up with Color and Homones. Even though it was a bigger bulkier bird but it had the bone structure to match.

Get this I bought a Phone it's like a Wireless Desk phone MoviStar Telephonica, it has a sim card. The service is 20 sols a month. The phone cost me 79sols first month service included. I need a phone to work and stay in touch back in the states. The phone card for some reason will go much further on this phone considered a home phone, though not tethered to a land line, than on a cell phone which would cost me a $1 a minute, instead of 15 cents.

While I was out getting the phone I stopped and picked up some milk, cereal, bread and toilet paper that cost me as much as than the phone. 79 soles, which is about what I would have paid in the states. Considering they don't sell in large packages.

The Waiter in the restaurant in Mira Florez said he makes 175 US dollars a Month. Which is less than 500 Soles a month.

Most people don't shop there, they can't afford it. Lucky for them the place that are nothing more than a few brick walls with tin roof, markets are still around. The places that has the Chickens still with the head hanging by their feet and rows upon rows of produce grown local by local farmers. It's cheaper there, but for how long.

Corporate Consumerism is here with a vengence, I see a huge difference in Television ads, media and Corporate branding even on the most clandestine rickshaw cart or fruit stand. Then when I was here ten years ago. Their meager markets will be forced out as expansion and development consumes the land that the peasants still farm.

Like I observed in Asia technology is dirt cheap, life is even cheaper. It's the COST of living most can barely afford.

Though on a more positive note, my MIL laws community now has Garbage collection, with a real Sanitation truck and all. They don't just collectively burn the garbage in a nightly ritual like the last time I was here. Also there's a discerning effort to grow grass and terraform this part of the desert. Though the foliage looks like it could use a spritzing, from a tender gardener. Every thing is covered in dust, then it's the winter rainy season. And it wont even give a proper rain just a constant mist mixed with a few droplets that randomly ping the tin roofs.

Greetings from Pachacama.

Just blocks from my MIL's house.

Oh and talk about conservation?
The Taxis here spend about 1200 USD, to convert their '92 Nissan hoopties to Natural Gas. Yup just old USA discarded junk they are taking out the icky parts and putting in the LP gas parts. The taxi driver says he drives all day long on 20 soles. or $6.00 that's about 300 miles of driving. Yep no Eggmobiles no Liberals bitching about foreign Oil they do it, because it makes economic sense and the conversion industry is mom and pops industry, not Big Brother's Company Store Incorporated.

State should really get out and see more he'd be disgusted by his behavior and ideals.

ch_tah says

Using your strategy, have any of your friends purchased? Or is this a technique that guarantees they may never buy since they always want something just out of their reach?

Yes, they have. There are always other houses, and they've never become too in love with the one house. And when I say "several months later," in some cases that was up to 9 months and the market tanked quite a bit in between (think 2008-2009 in the Bay Area where inventory was sky high when nothing was selling). Banks were still quite slow with short sales back then, and their processes have improved since.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to put all the negative connotations on it. The house wasn't "out of reach" because they could have made a full price offer. They just didn't think it was worth it based on the market.

Tenouncetrout says

That is what has prompted my rant.

They even have all the Mickey D's and Kentucky Fried Bastards.
The Animated Television actors hawk the Hamberquesas with such pride. No Gay Clown King making Ambiguously awkward moments, they are proud to consume.

If Mexico is anything like Peru, they don't need to come to America we're already there. They can deliver for the King of the Hamberquesa on their own damn roads. That is if they don't get their damn heads blown off by the Guns Obama's ATF guys are selling on the streets down there.
That's it, Obama is creating job openings in Mexico one stiff at a time.

"But you can stop doing Shit that is destroying free markets and killing small business."

Like what? Be specific.

HousingWatcher says

"But you can stop doing Shit that is destroying free markets and killing small business."

Like what? Be specific.

Really I've got to spell it out to you? Is that because you really don't know, or because you assume it's just a personal assault at Obama? Surely you've been paying attention to TALF, TARP, QE1, QE2, not even to mention the Bank Bail Out 1 and 2 the devaluation of the dollar as the open window overnight rate has set parked at less than .50% since 08. Bush's Give it to the banks take it from the poor economics, and Obama's Give it to the Banks take it from the Middle Class, destroy social services for the poor, while talking clawing back from the rich. In the mean time the rich and powerful are running nekkid through NY hotel hall ways looking for poor black immigrant wimmens to feel up.

Really I gotta do this? Go to the library and pick up a news paper starting from about August 08 and keep reading.

How did TARP hurt small businesses?

Where there's been economic carnage in American history there has been opportunity of immense portions.
America squandered opportunity for great growth, from 07 to even now and for the foreseeable future. Untold millions missed out on making fortunes or at least obtaining their little slice of the recovery. Instead the losses were collected and dolled out to an ever increasingly shrinking pool Moguls and Bankers that have wedged their position the Cogs of Democracy so much so. Most of them sit on Obama's economic advisory team.

Now unless you've got some more in depth questioning, I'm done with "what does this button do?" little quips stop either being aloof or assuming I'm just breaching gas.

"Washington (CNN) -- Sensing a shift away from their priorities, progressive Democrats and advocacy groups warned Thursday they could turn on President Barack Obama if a deficit-reduction deal reduces benefits in entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare."

Where in the hell are these Liberals on this board?

HousingWatcher says

How did TARP hurt small businesses?

By borrowing Trillions to cover banksta losses instead of running a trillion dollar line-of-credit program at 3-4% interest rates direct to Small Businesses.

The banks got bailed out, but they're sitting on the cash, not lending it like they swore up and down they would do.

I'm not so sure the state is reporting concrete data... Governments are notorious for fudging numbers.

Sometimes it's good to take a look around and make your own assumptions rather than to rely on data someone else provides.

The article I showed may just be a publicity stunt but I don't think so.. What it tells me for sure is for some reason CA politicians are looking elsewhere to see what might work better. I tend to strip basic facts from the news and discard the fluff - or at least I try to.

If you just stick to numbers all the time you might be missing the bigger (practical) picture. I see it all the time in biotech when we rarely hire academics (who also rarely hire industry persons). Analysis paralysis, no common sense, no practical skills but they pronounce words like 'schedule' as "shedule" to try to sound smart lol. [as a side note: I convinced that guy a lower port in a reaction vessel was called a 'bunghole' and he used the term all the time - relates to your name: corntrollio. Whenever he used that term you'd see the clean room guys' goggles fog up] They can't make their ideas work in the real world and end up getting shunted to some corner bench where they spent their time watering plants to get paid and kill time.

You've made some good points about CA but the question is: Where is it going? That is what I care about.

Texas' economy is much smaller. I think I heard someone compare it to one of the Asian Tigers. Maybe like Singapore? Maybe not I don't know.

What I do know is even in a relatively poor city like San Antonio my old friends all have jobs, nice houses, lots of toys, stability etc. Here my friends sell their souls for crappy houses, work harder for less after all is said and done, have less to enjoy (except maybe the weather) and have been losing their jobs.

I really wasn't trying to start a TX vs. CA contest. More just pointing out that yes, I think CA is going down hill fast and that one of those areas is with it's businesses - or so I think. Maybe the .gov website is accurate. But I still don't know what kind of jobs we grew. Hopefully they are good ones..

TARP was paid back to the govt. at a profit.

ANd what makes you sure that small businesses would use that money to hire?

HousingWatcher says

TARP was paid back to the govt. at a profit.

In the intervening time between Fall 2008 and Summer 2009, the Fed printed trillions of dollars (QE1) which the banks used to pay "back" TARP. They were in a hurry to pay it off to lift the Bonus caps, which most of the big boys did prior to the end of 2009. Much of the TARP money was supposed to fund a program called "HAMP", which was supposed to prevent foreclosures. The banks dragged their feet on giving out HAMP, so they could use the funds to pay TARP back ASAP.

If you remember, HAMP was supposed to be this amazing program. In reality, nothing much happened. Only 2% of the total aid to the banking industry in the past 3 years was in the form of TARP.

Most of the aid to the banking industry was the Fed taking tons of Freddie and Fannie loans off the banks hands. That's what made TARP repayment possible. Had there been TARP and no buying of worthless assets, it would have failed. Furthermore, the government lifted all kinds of restrictions on banking fees and managed to table a whole host of reforms.

The public costs of the Freddie/Fannie bailout, QE1 (and 2) far outweigh the pitiful profit the Gov't "Made" on TARP.

Tenouncetrout says

Surely you've been paying attention to TALF, TARP, QE1, QE2, not even to mention the Bank Bail Out 1 and 2 the devaluation of the dollar as the open window overnight rate has set parked at less than .50% since 08.

So which of those things were specifically done by Obama? How about none. I hate to burst your bubble, but Bush signed TARP. Maybe you should read that newspaper from August '08.

Maybe I should just stick to the Housing Forum. The Misc forum seems to have too many talking points and not much substance...

Honestly, the politicians have milked the "small business" BS lines for way too many years. People are far too gullible and buy into this crap, just like they buy into the "estate tax hurts small farms" nonsense. It's good marketing, but not based in reality.

This isn't about Obama OK! Fuck OBAMA!
But he's the President NOW, and these same policies are still being forged every day. They talk a lot but in the end, the rich gets GOBS and GOBS of Government money. Obama's like Lesko for the Rich guys.

Will the Tall Black man up front, please sit his ass down, so people can see what is going on behind him?

ch_tah says

Using your strategy, have any of your friends purchased?

Waiting out is the best strategy.

OK would you feel better if I called him Mr. President?

Tenouncetrout says

OK would you feel better if I called him Mr. President?

But you said it wasn't about Obama, didn't you? Is your memory slipping again. I know it's evening time at ToT's house so I guess we can overlook it.

just_passing_through says

I'm not so sure the state is reporting concrete data... Governments are notorious for fudging numbers.

EDD which keeps track of businesses in the state. I'm sure FTB also helps out with the stats. Come on.

The point is that you're using random anecdotes that are based on perceptions, which is fine, but you also have to check it against the data. The right answer is to do both, not ignore one or the other, so your story about Bunghole Guy is not really helpful here. Your perception was that California has been losing businesses left and right, and it's not true, even in this deep recession. If your Texans on the plane feel the same way, don't you think their anecdotes are suspect too?

I'm not saying Texas' economy is weak. Far from -- but it has always had its ups and downs too. Houston, for example, has never recovered from its oil-induced bubble in the early 80s. Its housing prices were still nominally lower (i.e. without even including inflation) 15 years later, as I stated here recently.

As I said, it depends on the business. If I wanted to engage in manufacturing of something not too technical, I'd probably vote Texas. If I wanted to engage in tech, I'd probably choose California. Do taxes and cost of living matter? Yes. But so do the skills of the work force, financing, critical mass, etc. There's no one simple answer.

Could California have a less dysfunctional state government? Maybe if we removed term limits and Prop 13. But Texas has some massive budget deficits too.

corntrollio says

EDD which keeps track of businesses in the state. I'm sure FTB also helps out with the stats. Come on.

Okay, but still no information about what those businesses are. I suspect they are as accurate as possible but at the same time I'm suspicious.

corntrollio says

Could California have a less dysfunctional state government? Maybe if we removed term limits and Prop 13. But Texas has some massive budget deficits too.

Texas has a pretty dysfunctional state govt too. I just used that as an example. I know about the deficit they have, a friend of mine from Moscow likes to remind me about it. Same guy thinks added value taxes are a great idea. I think they are sneaky. Same guy thinks we should add a $5 per gallon tax on gasoline to get people out of SUVs. I think that would be disastrous but those are my own anecdotal opinions.

CA has lived on boom after boom. Do you think we can get by without another one? If not do you think there will be another one? If so what do you think the next one will be? It won't be biotech - that is leaving and what is left, for the most part is low wage slave labor. Life Tech (800lb gorilla) just announced they are moving to China. Their CEO said they want a "presence" there but layoff info leaks through the place like a sieve.

Torch, acid, or coup d'grace.

Ramble... Ramble... Ramble... And still no proof or facts Shrek. That's amazing. How do you remain so consistently inane?

simchaland says

Tenouncetrout says

OK would you feel better if I called him Mr. President?

But you said it wasn't about Obama, didn't you? Is your memory slipping again. I know it's evening time at ToT's house so I guess we can overlook it.

I'm a proud Gemorran

It is what it is, and if the President's name right now was Mud Budd. Then I be bitching about Budd. But right now Obama is Mud to me.

Sabe

You only need to ask ONE question to get the correct answer.

Question: Is a Realtor involved in ANY of this?

Thats ALL you need to know! If Yes,,,,run for the hills.

If NO...do some more investigations. It sounds slimy and foul to me. Someone is doing someone...and if you don't enjoy it, don't bend over.

I do smell the stench all the way over here. Stinko P.U. ! Liar Liar pants on fire.....and YOU know they are up to some chicanery. Stay away and save your cash. You will need it as our Republic is destroyed by these scheming greedy liars.

investor90 says

Is a Realtor involved

Ahem, investor, it's Realtor®, okay?

@SF Ace

Thanks for the additional tips.

gbenson says

Region is Portland, OR. Is just my first exposure to anything like this (shady wise) and didn't want to sound too harsh on our rejection of the sellers 'counter' if the consensus is that I am just over-reacting.

Absolutely not. You're reaction is what law enforcement professionals call a, "hunch". And you are likely correct.

Now, the issues about the HOA should have you running for the hills. But that aside, I believe you are correct on most points except one. I don't think you "snooping" into the HOA is what caused them to induce and offer higher than yours, but I do think the $60k is intended to make you go away. I bet if you walk, and then look this place up in 6 months, you'll find it sold to that investor for cash for about $40k. It's a simple as:

Tell you the offer is now $60k
You walk
They, feigning "fairness", ask any and all comers: "Anyone else? 60? Anyone? Nope, ok, "sold!"
Then the investor "withdraws" the offer, feeling it's too high now
They counter to $40k
Owners do not list the property again, they give preferential consideration to the investors offer in a back-room type deal
Investor gets the property

They just want you to go away because you're messing up their efforts to corner the market in this complex, so they pretend someone went higher than you, you go "ok nevermind" and walk, and then they get back to selling it to whomever they wanted to own it in the first place. They can do this because whoever stands to pull the 6% commission from the sale is working with the investor, and might even be double-dipping on the commission by acting as the seller's agent too. That's the person who's claiming there is a higher offer. Investor says, "Get this asshole out of here, he's over-bidding me. I'll cut you $1,500 in extra "commission" once the sale closes in my name." And the realtor pulls the BS they are trying to pull on you.

The extra bit about the HOA would just firmly cement my decision to walk if I were you, but don't fool yourself into thinking that was the reason these tactics are being tried on you. This is very, VERY common in short sales, and probably won't be your last experience with the ol', "Oh yeah.....funny you mention it...we just received another offer.....would you like to bump your's up?"

I'd say either walk away and find something else or say the offer stands and if the other party backs out it still stands. They might be bluffing anyway.

I put an offer in on a home that had excessive mold. It was a newer home but mold issues. I had buyer representation and put an offer in of 250k. The listing agent was dragging her feet on delivering this offer. Well she got on the horn to try to drum up another buyer in the meantime. While my offer was on the table she put new wording on the listing in the MLS best and highest by a the end of the week. Meanwhile my offer still has not been delivered and it was the only offer. At the end of the week she says she has another offer from a contractor who is working with her = full commission for her. Anyway we lose the house to this contractor who had an offer of 211k. What??? My offer was 250k his 211k. We are told that it was an all cash offer and that is why he got it. Well he rehabs the home puts it back on the market for half a mil. I am a single mom trying to purchase a home for me and my children. Anyway he couldn't sell the home and I find out it's been repossessed (What??) Yes, it was financed through citizens bank. Is this legal??

corntrollio says

They just didn't think it was worth it based on the market.

Something I learned when searching for a home to buy...

If it is a good deal, it's not coming your way. There are plenty of other people they'd rather give the deal to than to someone they do not know.

wormwood says

Howabout some get together on this site and ban the methane coming out of Henny Penny back side, after all what comes out the other end of geese is what geese are known for. The woman clucks and argues in circles.

How mature.

rubyrae says

Is this legal??

No it is not illegal in the current system. No laws are violated. Home is sold to the buyer that gets the maximum commission to the RE guy. Seller gets less or more doesn't matter. Fraud like these are now rampant in the system but no laws are violated. Good luck in your pursuit.

I don't follow the logic of the price being acceptable to your friends and then only "several months later" it is clearly too "high." So if the bank had accepted their initial offer, would they be whining about how they overpaid or would they be content that they got it for what they wanted.

Using your strategy, have any of your friends purchased? Or is this a technique that guarantees they may never buy since they always want something just out of their reach?

The logic is that the market is descending. So the property value (what you think the property is worth) in Sept would be much lower in Dec or March. A considerable amount of time has passed and the market and value of the home has gone down so you would have to adjust the price offered accordingly.

OOOOH well Hells Bells, a WSJ article declaring the TARP money was paid back, I asked for Raw Data NOT Fairy Tales and Bubba Meisas.

Tell me are you self lubricated or does the Liberal media use KY jelly on your mind?

By the way, despite what many Americans think, the Vietnamese people aren't diehard communists at heart. I have been there. The Vietnamese were tired of foreign powers in their country (China -at times in the past centuries), France and finally the US).

Some people will remain ignorant of scientific process, willfully or otherwise. More than just deny they may in fact fight tooth and nail against findings that don't fit their world view.

Without support at the policy level individuals can do little to affect any outcomes from climate change. Sure we can reduce our own carbon footprint, but that does not matter unless everyone is doing it.

Do you see any significant changes coming at the policy level? I don't, and with climate change there is about a 30 year lag between action and consequences. Policy changes don't tend to happen until the consequences are right in our faces. Humans just are not built to think that long in the future. By the time any real policy changes have been made it is going to be waaaayyyyy too late to avoid any disaster scenarios you see coming as a result of climate change.

Of course anti-climate change people tell you to do nothing, and climate change advocates tell you to affect policy change, and reduce your own carbon output. No one is advising on what the average person should do to prepare themselves and family for the, what I see as, inevitable results of climate change.

Whether you see the results as severe or relatively minor, hell even if you think climate change is not man made, there is bound to be some resource restriction, and migration. Most will not do anything about it until they have to.

The more people that are unprepared, the better off those that are prepared will be.

So, wormwood, et al. please as you were. Climate change is a hoax. You need not even concern yourselves with responding to a thread like this.

rubyrae says

The logic is that the market is descending. So the property value (what you think the property is worth) in Sept would be much lower in Dec or March. A considerable amount of time has passed and the market and value of the home has gone down so you would have to adjust the price offered accordingly.

I guess this goes back to what others have said in the past (one of the few times I agree with Klarek). You should be doing thorough analysis and make offers based on that full analysis not some small amount of data. If your offer was good "several months" ago based on your thorough historical analysis, realistically it should still be a good offer. Otherwise, why the hell were you making that offer in a descending market? You knew the market was descending; you thought the number was good then, you should account for potential declines.

Maybe if you take the example to the extreme and change "several months" to almost a year and put the time frame when our country may have on the brink of financial collapse (2008-2009), then there could have been a big enough decline where market values actually dropped significantly and the offer is now too high. But in today's market, in the better parts of the BA, this is BS for you to wait, then the bank agrees to your price and then you go lower. Follow this plan and you'll likely never buy, even though just 3 months ago, you would have been perfectly happy buying that house for that price. Whatever happened to the view that buying a house is a multi-year commitment? Now you guys are looking at it in terms of months.