patrick.net

That's exactly one of the reasons why increases in taxation on the wealthy won't work as well as in the middle of last century where you would not and could not become an expat in an instant. So printing money and thinking you can redistribute it later again by taxation after handing it to the rich is a fallacy - they will siphon it off and move as much offshore as possible. Then you need to send in the drones.. ;)

Aw, we lost a Karzai.
Good riddance to useless rich people.

Moderate Infidel says

Good riddance to useless rich people.

Useless? I thought we needed their tax revenue?

Wow, this forum is not *ALL* by tovarishpeter, yet?

On the topic, I don't think these rich people are leaving after sucking off a lot of Obama dollars. If anything, they would want to stay, because there is much, much more to come.

I agree with CaptainShuddup, in that at the very least, the obvious socialist need for the rich is the tax revenue. But, there is more. The reason you need rich people is because without them everything will stop. I know, that there is not one on this forum who would think so. It's ok, the future will tell.

Finally, the true reason that they are living is not only the taxation, which equates to slavery (who would have thought that the rich, unlike poor, do not like to be owned by someone else?), but the understanding of what will happen here after the capital is burned up. "The poor" don't seem to understand that. To them, it is just the fault of the rich that the poor suck so much in life. Remove the rich somehow, and everything will be nice. LoL. You just wait and watch.

The beauty of not having any foresight is an unclouded, optimistic outlook, no matter the fundamentals.

robertoaribas says

the us will tax ALL of your assets on exit...
AND if you work abroad, they tax that too.

not as easy as implied...

The US is friendly to immigrants-legal or otherwise, but extremely barbaric in its treatment of expats, emigrants etc.

But corporations that have operations outside or even base their operations elsewhere are treated like royalty. Eg Halliburton-the company that got no bid contracts in the Iraq war-is based out of Dubai.

The USA has beome a land of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations.

Obama is making it tougher , not easier. I just assumed he would understand the difficulties faced by expats as his own mother was one, but he signed the draconian FATCA among other measures . Sigh....

robertoaribas says

the us will tax ALL of your assets on exit...

AND if you work abroad, they tax that too.

not as easy as implied...

Totally false. You will be taxed on capital gains of your assets. If you work abroad you pay local taxes and if your US taxes are higher you pay the difference. But you get a 93k deduction on your gross first. I haven't owed taxes in the US while overseas since my local tax credit plus earned credit is higher than my US taxes. Try to at least know a little about what you are posting.

But we are the only first world nation to have this stupid policy. In the whole world I think only Somalia or some such country has a similar position. Yet corporations are exempt, unless they bring foreign money back. How convenient.

bob2356 says

Totally false. You will be taxed on capital gains of your assets.

That includes properties. If you own three houses in CA worth 800k each, barring the first 600k or so, you have to pay an exit tax on the others as though you had sold it on the same day-even if you continue to own it and pay taxes on it. Now mind you, if a Chinese/Japanese/Indian investor buys property, he/she only pays taxes on sale of asset. Whatever happened to America first?

That and some states still require you to pay taxes and that is separate from the federal taxes and treaties. Also what you pay is dependent on the multiple tax treaties US has with multiple countries and also your heirs will pay a bigger tax. it ain't easy. Funny , a nation that pretends to welcome immigrants, is so harsh and brutal to its emigrants.

The rich are leaving, and the poor are illegally entering USA despite a terrible job market.

lostand confused says

That includes properties. If you own three houses in CA worth 800k each, barring the first 600k or so, you have to pay an exit tax on the others as though you had sold it on the same day-even if you continue to own it and pay taxes on it.

So write your congressman, I've written mine enough saying the law sucks. My point, which you totally fail to grasp, was that you don't pay taxes on your assets as roberto states, you pay taxes on the capital gains of your assets. You would have to pay them sooner or later anyway. WTF does the price have to do with capital gains? If you owned a 800k house that you bought for 900k then you would owe nothing while someone that bought a 50k house now worth 125k would. For someone who has "set themselves up with all the tax ramifications" you seem awful fuzzy on the laws involved.

I have no idea what continuing to pay property taxes has to do with capital gains. Is there a point in here somewhere?

lostand confused says

That and some states still require you to pay taxes and that is separate from the federal taxes and treaties. Also what you pay is dependent on the multiple tax treaties US has with multiple countries

Pure bullshit. Tax treaties are to eliminate double taxation. What does this have to do with expatriation? Once you turn in your passport you don't pay US taxes any more, federal or state. That's the whole point.

Moderate Infidel says

Aw, we lost a Karzai.

Good riddance to useless rich people.

since when was he an American ? Seems these people stashed their money in Swiss Accounts before coming to the US.

lostand confused says

Whatever happened to America first?

You got Diversity in exchange.

thomaswong.1986 says

You got Diversity in exchange.

You got it Senor Wong !

And we middle class are going to be paying for allowing the intentional destruction of our economic system.

lostand confused says

Yet corporations are exempt, unless they bring foreign money back. How convenient.

no they are not exempt, but US Corporations like US Individual taxpayers do not pay tax on income that has already been taxed by foreign govt. Since ours are higher, corps and individuals pay the additional difference... 20% = 35% US rate - 15% foreign rate on foreign income.

robertoaribas says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

I've already placed the majority of my money abroad in housing and land.

sure you have. this is more made up crap like your alleged options deals...

Sad to know you are actually teaching stuff to young kids. Sad

lostand confused says

you have to pay an exit tax on the others as though you had sold

If you made a profit then you should have to pay taxes. Not sure I got your point.

I didn't say good riddance to All rich people, just the useless ones.

If you can give up your US citizenship because you're rich and have no family or business interests keeping you here then you are "useless rich".

bob2356 says

Pure bullshit. Tax treaties are to eliminate double taxation. What does this
have to do with expatriation?

Well yes, I combined expats and exit . Expats deal with double tax.bob2356 says

So write your congressman

I did, to my congressmen and senators. All I got in return wa sjunk mail and request for elections and how horrible republicans are.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

thomaswong.1986 says

lostand confused says

Yet corporations are exempt, unless they bring foreign money back. How convenient.

no they are not exempt, but US Corporations like US Individual taxpayers do not pay tax on income that has already been taxed by foreign govt. Since ours are higher, corps and individuals pay the additional difference... 20% = 35% US rate - 15% foreign rate on foreign income.

Dude, din't you say you were an accountant or some such?? Here ya go
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/encyclopedia/Foreign-Tax-Credit.cfm

RentingForHalfTheCost says

lostand confused says

you have to pay an exit tax on the others as though you had sold

If you made a profit then you should have to pay taxes. Not sure I got your point.

No they tax you on exit, not on sale of assets. So if you are an Asian or Russian investor, you can buy anything and pay taxes on sale. But if you are an US investor and have three houses in CA, that you bought 20 yrs ago, you pay taxes on those three houses-even though you have not sold them- but pay taxes on the paper values of the gain on exit. That is just crap, when considering we are supposed to be the leader of the free world.

Moderate Infidel says

I didn't say good riddance to All rich people, just the useless ones.

If you can give up your US citizenship because you're rich and have no family or business interests keeping you here then you are "useless rich".

As opposed to what the welfare cheats who live off them ?

lostand confused says

thomaswong.1986 says

lostand confused says

Yet corporations are exempt, unless they bring foreign money back. How convenient.

no they are not exempt, but US Corporations like US Individual taxpayers do not pay tax on income that has already been taxed by foreign govt. Since ours are higher, corps and individuals pay the additional difference... 20% = 35% US rate - 15% foreign rate on foreign income.

Dude, din't you say you were an accountant or some such?? Here ya go
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/encyclopedia/Foreign-Tax-Credit.cfm

Since you will spew more gibberish with no basis in fact, here I took the main point,
"If the foreign source income is earned through a foreign affiliate that is a separate company incorporated abroad, the income generally is subject to U.S. tax only when it is remitted as dividends to the U.S. parent corporation. The U.S. tax on unremitted earnings is thus deferred until the earnings are repatriated. This is advantageous to the corporation because of the benefits of deferring tax."

Now if you worked in big corporations, you would know this is rather common and nobody pays taxes on that. You are giving tax advice to others??

Kevin says

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Don't let the poor shoot you in the ass on your way out.

Over 50%, including pretty much all my cash. I only have rental properties in the US. As you well know people will always need a place to live. An income stream in US dollars is a decent hedge. If the dollar goes totally in the toilet I'll use the income to buy boats and cars to ship out of the country.

lostand confused says

Moderate Infidel says

I didn't say good riddance to All rich people, just the useless ones.

If you can give up your US citizenship because you're rich and have no family or business interests keeping you here then you are "useless rich".

As opposed to what the welfare cheats who live off them ?

The welfare cheats are living off the middle class, not the useless rich.

If the rich are so busy creating jobs then why do we need welfare?
Why won't the rich save us all with their awesome magical powers.

thomaswong.1986 says

You got Diversity in exchange.

Your ancestors should have thought twice before they imported all those Africans to work on their plantations.

Moderate Infidel says

If the rich are so busy creating jobs then why do we need welfare?
Why won't the rich save us all with their awesome magical powers.

Why don't you give all your spare money and create temp jobs? Why should a rich person create jobs just because he/she has money. That is silly logic-a person or a company creates a job because they have a need, not because they have extra cash lying around.Moderate Infidel says

The welfare cheats are living off the middle class, not the useless rich.

Contrary to popular belief, the rich do pay the most taxes. The dreaded 1% pay well over 30% of the nations taxes
. The top 10% pay close to 70% of the nation's taxes.

The bottom 50% earn 13% of the nation's income, but only pay 3% of the nation's taxes and guess who takes up the most welfare dollars on top of that??

Moderate Infidel says

Kevin says

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Don't let the poor shoot you in the ass on your way out.

I'll be shutting it faster than anyone can slam it against me. ;) Good luck with the small 16.8 trillion debt issue and the 124 trillion unfunded liabilities. I'm sure that will be easy to solve with a few good profitable wars. Can you sell Iraq for 124 trillion to Kuwait?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The California real estate market is only a pretend market. It's really a shell game whereby ownership of properties is transferred from individual home dwellers to individuals and corporations who profit from the rentier system. I read that home ownership in CA has gone from around 63% to 55% in four years. That trend is only escalating as foreign buyers snap up anything that the investors miss or pass on. It's a system designed to keep middle class people renting for life or if they are lucky enough to win a bid at an extremely inflated price, paying on that debt for the rest of their careers and saving nothing. It's the same system our ancestors emigrated from Europe to avoid centuries ago. I'm planning to leave and go somewhere sane, somewhere the rentier class hasn't ruined yet, maybe Texas or Florida. Good luck to those who remain. I don't wish to be a 21st century serf my whole life.

lostand confused says

Why don't you give all your spare money and create temp jobs? Why should a rich person create jobs just because he/she has money.

I own a small business that employs 10 people and pay a shit load of taxes.
Suck it.

Moderate Infidel says

lostand confused says

Why don't you give all your spare money and create temp jobs? Why should a rich person create jobs just because he/she has money.

I own a small business that employs 10 people and pay a shit load of taxes.
Suck it.

So you say on the interwebz. But by your logic, you should give up any spare cash and hire even more -else you are the useless rich.

lostand confused says

So you say on the interwebz. But by your logic, you should give up any spare cash and hire even more -else you are the useless rich.

I just did two weeks ago, I hired two more people. A rich person who doesn't create jobs with his/her wealth is a useless psychopathic cunt and should be deported to Pakistan.

Moderate Infidel says

lostand confused says

So you say on the interwebz. But by your logic, you should give up any spare cash and hire even more -else you are the useless rich.

I just did two weeks ago, I hired two more people. A rich person who doesn't create jobs with his/her wealth is a useless psychopathic cunt and should be deported to Pakistan.

Blah, blah, blah. You can be anything you wanna be on the interwebz. Communism here we come

lostand confused says

Blah, blah, blah. You can be anything you wanna be on the interwebz. Communism here we come

Obviously you were the water boy on your debate team.