patrick.net

But only to keep us out of a mob war.

Ronald Reagan is the person most singularly responsible for creating the unjust and unproductive rich-poor gap that we experience today. That is why he is worshiped by the right and despised by everyone else.

If you like the idea of living in a cast society, where a privilege 1% gets to sit on their asses living in luxury supported by the other 99%, then yes, Reagan makes perfect sense.

The problem with this idea is that everyone who buys it thinks that they are going to be in the privilege class when in fact it is literally 99 times more likely that they will be in the slave class.

"made up wars?" Like the war on drugs?

In addition to causing 99% of the American population to lose the dream of their kids doing better than they did, Reagan also created the culture of lawlessness in business, the abolition of anti-trust enforcement, and big government deficit spending, all of which have had terrible effects on our economy.

New Renter says

"made up wars?" Like the war on drugs?

Yes, that bitch Nancy Reagan started the war on drugs when she wasn't blowing Frank Sinatra, and as a result killed tens of thousands of Americans and imprisoned millions of others who should not be incarcerated. What an evil bitch.

Dan8267 says

Nancy Reagan....

Nixon started the war on drugs in 1971. Nancy said, "Just say no." If federal policy had changed from Nixon's "war" to Nancy's lip service, millions wouldn't be in prison today. Although she didn't campaign to end the drug war, she didn't start it either, and her advice if followed literally by her husband's administration would have been an improvement.

curious2 says

Nixon started the war on drugs in 1971. Nancy said, "Just say no."

I stand corrected. However, Nancy still deserves great blame for escalating the War on Drugs. America was at a fork in the road and it chose the wrong path. The consequence of that has been devastating to liberty, real crime fighting, and our treasuries.

Acting classes in Hollywood require courses in advanced fellatio technique for career advancement as well as how to smoke a cigarette with cool in front of the camera for tobacco endorsements.

As they like to say in the show biz, it's like a unisex handshake.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

A truly great president would have blown Frank Sinatra himself.

I would blow Frank Sinatra myself to get back the enforcement of anti-trust laws and reign in warfare spending.

CaptainShuddup says

He kept us out of made up wars

Yeah, he liked little wars, like Granada, and the Falklands.

When the terrorists blew up a bunch of marines in lebanon he didn't fall for it.

But he was a champ when it came to military spending.

Reagan deserves a lot of blame for exacerbating the inequality resulting from his tax policies. But Reagan rise to power was multi-faceted and his legacy was not only on the economic front which he didn't start.

The rollback really got underway during the Carter Administration. The deregulation of the transportation industry -- especially the airlines started prior to Reagan. The dropping of Capital Gains rates began with the Carter Administration and the Democratically controlled Senate.

The Carter Administration also gave us Paul Volcker who as FED chairman raised interest rates to 21% in the wake of the Iranian Revolution that crippled the economy and drove it to the worse economic condition since the Great Depression at that time. In order to combat the inflation caused by Volcker provided Reagan and his crew ample leverage to introduce tax reduction and deregulation schemes as remedies.

Carter's foreign policies helped drive the NEO-conservatives from the Democrats into the Republican camp. Many of today's neo-cons like Elliott Abrams, got their start during the Reagan years. These neo-cons went onto start the war on Iraq and the mire that is the U.S. policy in the Middle East today.

In other words had it not been for Carter and his failed polices, Reagan would not have been president.

He is a man who accomplished a lot as a president, even got Congress to reform tax code. Life in America did improve with him as president.

80's were the golden age of America.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Poobah Pat, can you put this up as a poll question someplace: Would you blow Frank Sinatra to bring back " the enforcement of anti-trust laws and reign in warfare spending." ?

If this does become a poll question, can we please clarify the choices:
1) Frank Sinatra age ~20, when he was as popular as Justin Bieber today (and probably pretty quick);
2) Frank Sinatra age ~80, as most people remember him (this would probably take much longer and might require Rx drugs);
3) zombie Frank Sinatra, the corpse in its current state (this would involve an interminable effort and probably taste like embalming chemicals);
4) none of the above, let TBTF corporations rape us and kill us with monopolistic practices and endless war.
Looking at the comments so far in this thread, I'm guessing probably #4 would win, but I respect the dedication of those who vote #2.

humanity says

Yeah, he liked little wars, like Granada, and the Falklands.

One was not a war, and the other was England's conflict. That was a Margie crisis.

Grenada gained independence from the United Kingdom in 1974. The leftist New Jewel Movement seized power in a coup in 1979 suspending the constitution. After a 1983 internal power struggle ended with the deposition and murder of revolutionary Prime Minister Maurice Bishop, the invasion began early on 25 October 1983, just two days and several hours after the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, early Oct. 23 Beirut time, late evening Oct. 22 U.S. Eastern time.

The Falklands War began on Friday 2 April 1982, when Argentine forces invaded and occupied the Falkland Islands and South Georgia. The British government dispatched a naval task force to engage the Argentine Navy and Air Force, and retake the islands by amphibious assault. The resulting conflict lasted 74 days and ended with the Argentine surrender on 14 June 1982, which returned the islands to British control. During the conflict, 649 Argentine military personnel, 255 British military personnel and 3 Falkland Islanders died.

I keep telling you folks, I was around then. This sucks ass compared to what a horrible horrible president Reagan was. In retrospect, if the only positive thing that can be said about Obama is he kept us out of wars,( Yet we're doling out drone strikes indiscriminately in Pakistan, how is that not a war?) then Reagan was great by those standards.

FortWayne says

He is a man who accomplished a lot as a president, even got Congress to reform tax code. Life in America did improve with him as president.

80's were the golden age of America.

You know the republican mythology well.

I think Mia Farrow blew Frank Sinatra and said he tasted like embalming chemicals when he was still alive.

The "War on Drugs" was actually a brainchild of Nelson Rockefeller, and adopted by Nixon as a convenient "get tough" distraction from other issues.

Dan8267 says

Ronald Reagan is the person most singularly responsible for creating the unjust and unproductive rich-poor gap that we experience today. That is why he is worshiped by the right and despised by everyone else.

you rather we had Carter and Mondale.. yea that worked out well ....

the liberal policies of the 70s made everyone poor.

Liberalism didnt work ... get over it!

CaptainShuddup says

I keep telling you folks, I was around then. This sucks ass compared to what a horrible horrible president Reagan was.

Amen!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

thomaswong.1986 says

CaptainShuddup says

I keep telling you folks, I was around then. This sucks ass compared to what a horrible horrible president Reagan was.

Amen!

The captain was young then. Ten pound bass hadn't even been caught yet.

Now he's a cranky old man, just recently having gotten through male menopause. This is the biggest factor affecting the difference in his world view between then and now.

But it's irononic that he looks back fondly on Reagan who is the one who started the biggest credit bubble of all time, that we are now dealing with. We have a problem that Reagan started, that probably has no nice solution. Either extreme austerity for a protracted period, causing a severe depression, or inflate our way out of it, with working man's wages not going up as much as prices. Either way, the 99% are SO FUCKED.

Right. Yeah. Thanks Ronnie !!

thomaswong.1986 says

Liberalism didnt work ... get over it!

Carter was in office during the inflation of the 70s, it's his fault, he sucked.

(although he appointed Volker to the fed, who finished getting inflation under control a few years later, and setting the stage for a double digit drop in interest rates and the mother of all economic booms)

SO Reagan comes in, presides over this lucky timing, also spending like crazy, even though he lowered taxes (can you say MASSIVE DEFICITS?)

and we have the age of the me generation and "don't worry - be happy."

Yeah, REagan was sooooo wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/yv-Fk1PwVeU

Dan8267 says

In addition to causing 99% of the American population to lose the dream of their kids doing better than they did,

I'm pretty sure that had already happened before Reagan took office.

Reagan would be considered a liberal by today's GOP standards. Not only did he raise taxes 11 times, but he also increased the deficit enormously. Compared to his modern day counterparts, he actually knew the meaning of the word "compromise". So its ironic that so many conservatives place Reagan on a golden platform when if a candidate that acted like him today would never make it to the white house.

humanity says

FortWayne says

He is a man who accomplished a lot as a president, even got Congress to reform tax code. Life in America did improve with him as president.

80's were the golden age of America.

You know the republican mythology well.

Spare me your partisan politics. Reagan took care of Americans, lunch wasn't free there was a huge deficit, but life in America did get better. Job situation improved, incomes improved, living standards improved.

What do we have today? Unemployment, vanishing wages and jobs due to rampant off-shoring. Living standards declining, people are losing their homes, and their incomes. Seniors are getting squeezed more and more. While government thugs proliferate at browbeating, increasing taxes on the working class while at the same time sending American jobs offshore.

Your fellow liberals are running around Africa spending money feeling all self important, but forget to help the poor out in America. Steve Balmer and Zuckerberg are trying to amend the immigration bill to allow more off-shoring of Americans. And Obama is talking about raising age needed for social security, while not a single person under 40 understands how that heinous idea will starve seniors to death.

Yeah "humanity", results in this life speak louder than words. Hope and Change isn't working out so well for many. Maybe Obama should concentrate on economy more, instead of dicking around with non issues like gun control.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Reagan was a pinko cuckold who didn't have the guts to blow Frank Sinatra himself.

There is a line a conservative man will not cross. That line starts at Frank Sinatra.

FortWayne says

Yeah "humanity", results in this life speak louder than words. Hope and Change isn't working out so well for many. Maybe Obama should concentrate on economy more, instead of dicking around with non issues like gun control.

Perhaps if the previous administration had not so royally phucked everything up then Obama wouldn't have had the monumental task of having to fix the economy in the first place.
The one thing that Reagan did do that had unintentional and disastrous outcomes was that he grossly limited the powers of the SEC an various financial regulatory commissions. This was done to loosen up lending. It worked great. For awhile. The problem is that it enabled banks to sell loans up the river versus having that debt serviced in house. This thus limited their risk, and once that cycle started, it worked its way all the way up to the top of Wall Street, with each and every participant paying hot potato. Prior to the Reagan administration it was not super easy to get a loan and there were long adhered to regulations for the financial sector. After Reagan removed those regulations you can easily trace the series of boom-bust cycles leading right up to the climax in the mid 2000's.

So Reagan's real legacy was that he unintentionally started the whole debt-based economy we now live in.

marcus says

just recently having gotten through male menopause.

It aint over YET! Now get off my lawn!

edvard2 says

So Reagan's real legacy was that he unintentionally started the whole debt-based economy we now live in.

Well, said.

FortWayne says

80's were the golden age of America.

Eh...not really...they were a time of artificially induced euphoria and marked the transition of the one of the lamest generations ever into the I-Got-Mine-Fuck-You-Buddy phase they ultimately came to embody.

The golden age, when the gravy was still hot, was between 1948 and 1961.

JodyChunder says

The golden age, when the gravy was still hot, was between 1948 and 1961.

Agreed. But only because after WW2 the rest of the industrialized world was in ruins, our country wasn't touched, and thus we were in a situation to basically make and sell everything for everyone else and had a nice little monopoly for a few years.

What I find ironic is that there actually is a "level of contentment" scale that is taken every year. The findings are that to date, 1955 is the year that more Americans were content than any other year. Ironic because back then the average American home was about 700 square feet, had a single car, a single radio or TV, a single telephone, and that was it. However the larger the houses become, so too does the level of overall contentedness shrink. Whether they two are connected is anyone's guess. But its clear that it wasn't because people in 1955 had a lot of crap. Perhaps its more because most in that generation had survived the depression and WW2 and were just happy to be doing ok.

FortWayne says

There is a line a conservative man will not cross. That line starts at Frank Sinatra.

LOL - I had been wondering who Disliked all the comments about Frank Sinatra, and why. Fair enough. That famous 1938 mugshot is a personal favorite, but probably not how he wanted to be remembered. RIP, Old Blue Eyes; today's youngins hardly knew ye.

edvard2 says

But only because after WW2 the rest of the industrialized world was in ruins, our country wasn't touched, and thus we were in a situation to basically make and sell everything for everyone else and had a nice little monopoly for a few years.

That's part of it, but not entirely it. We had a lot of little secret ingredients that put us ahead of the pack.

Duke Ellington, Clark Gable, the transistor, Levi jeans, BVD, the flathead V8, log cabins, cowboys and Indians and hamburgers and french fried potatoes and Batman and Pepsi and Polio vaccines and Converse and ERECTOR Sets and Sinatra Fess Parker and Have Gun Will Travel and Robert Mitchum and King Kong and Mighty Joe Young and Walt Disney and Hanna Barbara and Raymond Loewy and Ford/Lincoln/Mercury and Cadillac and Playboy and John Ford and Woody Guthrie and Aaron Copeland and Frank Lloyd Wright and Western Electric and Elvis Presley and Doris Day and Marlon Brando and Sears Roebuck and Harley Davidson and Indian and Mickey Spillane and Jack Daniels and Smith & Wesson, The Naked and the Dead and Catcher in the Rye and John Huston and Jack Kerouac and JFK and RnB and glass packs and fried chicken and chicken fried steak and Cinerama and stereo recordings and Boeing and surfing and skateboarding and pinups and drag racing and Moog synthesizers and Fender and Gibson guitars and Marantz Hi-Fi and the Indy 500 and Lassie and 3d movies and RCA and air conditioning and...y'know...American stuff...the best shit...

Reagan ain't anywhere on that list...

FortWayne says

Spare me your partisan politics. Reagan took care of Americans, lunch wasn't free there was a huge deficit, but life in America did get better. Job situation improved, incomes improved, living standards improved.

Reagan spent 4 trillion in borrowed money, the economy soared then crashed. Bush II spent 4 trillion in borrowed money, The economy soared then crashed. See any pattern here?

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Ronald Reagan is the person most singularly responsible for creating the unjust and unproductive rich-poor gap that we experience today. That is why he is worshiped by the right and despised by everyone else.

you rather we had Carter and Mondale.. yea that worked out well ....

the liberal policies of the 70s made everyone poor.

Liberalism didnt work ... get over it!

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze. How many times do I have to tell you that Liberalism is a social philosophy, not an economic ones. The very phrase "liberal economic policies" is as meaningful as the phrase "invisible shade of red". But hey, keep fucking that chicken.

And blaming Carter for the economic problems of the 1970s is clearly a load of crap as shown by the following charts.

Hmmm, what happened in the 1970s that drained the treasury and wasted valuable resources? Oh yeah, Vietnam. And quite frankly, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon are all to blame for that wasteful war, the lost of lives, and the economic damage that resulted from it. Nixon was always a hawk. And let's face it. War is the greatest economic waste there is.

Nevertheless, as Elizabeth Warren illustrated, families in the 1970s had way more disposable income than families today. In some ways, the economy was better then. Notsomuch the fashion, but you can't have everything.

Nonetheless, there is nothing that any president from Kennedy to Carter did that comes close to destroying the American quality of life as what that puppet Reagan did.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/NR3RqMMIwD4

That's it, tell your puppet to speed it up.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Ike, hear our prayers!

Ike, the last good Republican. Wish he were still alive to kick some ass.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Reagan was a pinko cuckold who didn't have the guts to blow Frank Sinatra himself.

How do you know he and Nancy didn't tag team "Old Blue Eyes"?

JodyChunder says

Reagan ain't anywhere on that list...

great list, but you went a little past '61 on a few things.

being a member of that lame genration (and kind of agreeing about so many boomers being lame), I put the golden age to at least mid seventies.

I would have included a few other GM cars, and drive ins. Even though I didn't grow up in the kind of town that had drive ins.

JodyChunder says

Reagan ain't anywhere on that list...

No? What about this classic?

Goddamn, Ron must've gone through five gallons of Vitalis every week.