patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,259,006 comments by 15,027 users - WookieMan online now
invite response« First « Previous Comments 33 - 72 of 111 Next » Last » Search these comments
Goran_K
2013 Aug 2, 5:27am
I knew this one was a loser as soon as this thread was posted.
Where are you at e-man?
Thanks, SFace. Loaded 500 shares.
How's that anonymous forum stock advice working out for you?
CIT will not state directly if they are pulling back on JCP, but they have already stopped factoring some of JCP's suppliers, which is going to hurt Penney's in the short term on deliveries for August.
I can tell you that when CIT starts getting skittish, it is bad tea leaves for the retailer. This is exactly how things started going down last year when the Baker's chain of shoe stores filed bankruptcy and finally liquidated. CIT was the last straw that really put them out.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/31/us-jcpenney-cit-idUSBRE96U18P20130731
This article shows the PR agents are in full denial mode:
Goran_K
2013 Aug 4, 5:06am
How's that anonymous forum stock advice working out for you?
lol
E-man, where you at?
Goran_K
2013 Aug 7, 5:02am
Thank you for thinking of me. ;) I guess you could say that I avoided the disaster because I've been busy remodeling one of our recent acquisitions and had no spare time to buy stocks. I'm one of those lucky guys that god is always looking out for me. Well, at least that's how I feel.
Lucky you! God is good. Are you going to take back your high-five from SFace now or does he get to keep that?
Sitting on cash, strangely, actually seems to be a sound strategy at the moment.
I think you took SFace's post the wrong way. It was a risk and reward trade. He mentioned the potential downside is $12 with the potential upside of $30. $5/share loss for a potential gain of $13/share. It was a trade, not an investment. If things don't turn around by the end of 3rd quarter, it's time to swallow the pride and cut the losses. That's how I would do it.
Maybe. Though I never saw the potential upside (as explained by all of my previous post about big box retail stocks). The time to swallow pride and cut losses was right before he thought buying JCP was a good idea.
Eman
2013 Aug 8, 7:37am
"Are you going to take back your high-five from SFace now or does he get to keep that?"
Nope. I still give him a high five. It's way too easy to be a critic. SFace stuck his neck out there with this purchase as well as a call to double up on FB. How many critics on here, other than a few, have the balls to show their actual trades/purchases. Most are nothing, but a bunch of Monday night quarterbacks.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 8, 8:40am
Plus, he's your buddy, you can't diss him out in public right?
How many critics on here, other than a few, have the balls to show their actual trades/purchases.
Not me for sure. If I have a winner, I'd definitely not share it publicly on the board. Why would I do something like that?
Plus, he's your buddy, you can't diss him out in public right?
How many critics on here, other than a few, have the balls to show their actual trades/purchases.
Not me for sure. If I have a winner, I'd definitely not share it publicly on the board. Why would I do something like that?
Why not? You place your order, and then hit submit on your forum post. Pretty simple. Its not like a bunch of anons are going to read your post and then rush to the window and bid you out of your price,,,,,if anything, you want more action following you through the door!
Now, if this were a sports handicapping site, I could see the concern, if we were sniping openers on wnba sides, or tennis matches, or ncaabb over unders. You fire a dime into a small market like that, and have an following on the interwebs, you risk your buddies cutting in front of you in line, and stealing your price.
As eman reminded, sface said downside 12, upside 30.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 8, 9:13am
if anything, you want more action following you through the door!
Good picks will have that anyway.
But offering that good fortune to random people on the internet who don't know already? I don't see the benefit personally.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 9, 9:05am
They are even struggling to find someone to lead the company...
Let's see. You're an up and coming CEO, or perhaps someone who has successfully run a mid-cap level type of company.
The JCP position opens. The company experienced a 33% YOY revenue drop. Their online store is tanking. They got rid of the entire catalog store department in 2011. They're being outmaneuvered by their competitors.
Would you risk your career by jumping onto a sinking ship, and being known as the guy who went down with JCP?
Goran_K
2013 Aug 14, 1:32am
When it comes down to it, Ackman is a man-child, and he's sinking his own ship by acting like one.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 14, 2:15am
Time to buy. It's at the all time low...it'll recover to at least 17....
The board is literally at each other's throats. Ullman supporters and Ackman supporters are turning this company into a clown show. Ackman left the board yesterday.
I'd wait until at least sub-10 like 2000. The thing is, I don't know if we'll see a sky rocket recovery with JCP like in the 2000s. Retail space has shifted significantly raising the risk, and that big elephant Amazon is only getting bigger.
Unlike 2000, I think this could be JCP's death spiral. Time to short.
Y
2013 Aug 14, 2:28am
I agree. But with all death spirals, there will be periods of apparent recovery. The shopping season is right around the corner. JCP has 1.5 billion cash and 4 billion of real estate to make a short term go of it. Must keep an hourly eye on CIT to see if/when they bail on financing JCP. When they bail, everyone must bail.
Buy low, sell high....they are now LOW.
past 2 years they've had a nice bump from august through october...
https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:JCP&sa=X&ei=ia8LUtH3MMSEyAHU0YHYAg&ved=0CDgQ2AE
Unlike 2000, I think this could be JCP's death spiral. Time to short.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 14, 2:31am
How big are you going in?
Good thing though, I think e-man will magically find his shares that "he forgot to buy" if they do recover. Maybe you can get some from him if they miraculously go back above 14.
zzyzzx
2013 Aug 14, 2:32am
I'm sure I have said this at least once here, but I really hate retail stocks.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 14, 2:34am
I'm sure I have said this at least once here, but I really hate retail stocks.
A lot of reason to.
Y
2013 Aug 14, 2:38am
I wasn't planning to.
Strictly mutual funds. don't have time to follow all this shit on a consistent basis.
but looking at JCP over the past 10 years on that yahoo stock chart, it seems they always get a good bump from mid august to end of september-november timeframe.
Given their cash and real estate holdings, it seems like a good short term ( 1-2 months ) bet. I might break my rule and buy a tiny bit for the fun of it....say 1k worth...
How big are you going in?
anyone that bought on july 10th when this was posted and sold today would be down 22.76%.
ackman bought at $25 and sold his entire position at ~$12.50/share, which means he stands to lose $470 million dollars. lol.
Eman
2013 Aug 28, 3:04am
anyone that bought on july 10th when this was posted and sold today would be down 22.76%.
ackman bought at $25 and sold his entire position at ~$12.50/share, which means he stands to lose $470 million dollars. lol.
So that makes you smarter than Ackman?
SFace
2013 Aug 28, 8:55am
So that makes you smarter than Ackman?
Yeah, well Ackman will say, he bought GGP in 2009 for 35 red cents to $1.50 a share (72M shares) and made $1.3B. or a 20 bagger.
He still has 68M shares and sitting on 1.1B in unrealized gains. He will probably sell some GGP to match the capital loss from JCP.
Prem Watsa, Canada's Warren Buffet is getting killed by Blackberry too. The lesson is to learn from mistakes. Never buy in a "sell" signal, I got burned from it. FB was flashing all kinds of buy signal and got rewarded. Technicals matter.
Goran_K
2013 Aug 28, 10:13am
anyone that bought on july 10th when this was posted and sold today would be down 22.76%.
ackman bought at $25 and sold his entire position at ~$12.50/share, which means he stands to lose $470 million dollars. lol.
The best "lol" about it all is that Ackman is partly responsible for the implosion of the JCP board, and I KNEW he would cause this type of trouble over Ron Johnson even before SFace started this thread.
What a child.
Eman
2013 Sep 4, 3:20pm
Bought at $17.08
@onthefence,
If you still have JCP, it's time to throw in the towel. Take your loss and put the money in another stock. The trend is not your friend.
Goran_K
2013 Sep 4, 4:52pm
Or you could just say you never bought it in the first place like E-man, then your losses would be zero!
Funny thing is JCP since it went below 13, is actually up 6% over the last week in a mini-rally.
Ok. I'm in. Now I'm debating between 1k or 2k shares. Probably 1k shares in my account & 1k shares in wifey's account.
yeah take stock advice from this guy, sure winner!!!
Ok. I'm in. Now I'm debating between 1k or 2k shares. Probably 1k shares in my account & 1k shares in wifey's account.
yeah take stock advice from this guy, sure winner!!!
no kidding. a follower without an independent thought will never be a good investor.
Eman
2013 Sep 9, 3:25pm
3 guys with woman's attitude. Tsk tsk tsk. I feel sorry for your ladies. They deserve better.
e-man do you lie to your wife about your stock picks too? does she deserve better?
you also know no one will ever believe you about your investment moves again right? because you were exposed as a liar
Look at how many friends I have on patnet compared to you.
Oh fuck! You got me there hahahahahaha
you have more pat net friends than me, oh woe is me, my life is overrrrr!!!!
as for the rest of the stuff, i dont believe a single word, sorry. you dont seem to have any investment acumen or skill as proven by this thread.
3 guys with woman's attitude. Tsk tsk tsk. I feel sorry for your ladies. They deserve better.
so you're ignorant and sexist too. not surprising. the women i know are definitely smarter and better investors than you; so i take this as a compliment.
it's interesting you think losing money by blindly following ackman is the opposite of a woman's attitude. lol. i call it being a sheep that can't think for himself. to each their own!
so you're ignorant and sexist too. not surprising. the women i know are definitely smarter and better investors than you; so i take this as a compliment.
it's interesting you think losing money by blindly following ackman is the opposite of a woman's attitude. lol. i call it being a sheep that can't think for himself. to each their own!
hahahaha
this guy is trying to insult women like they are bad investors when he was caught red handed lying about one of his stock buys by goran
i dont believe a single word he types out, this guys investment accomplishments are as fake as a wooden leg,
FortWayne
2013 Sep 17, 9:33am
Their Earning Per Share is -7.32
I don't really know how they make money, I am not in retail. But losing money isn't going to impress many people to buy shares.
Vornado and Pershing Square exiting JCP
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/19/vorando-to-exit-remaing-stake-j-c-penney/?mod=yahoo_hs
Y
2013 Sep 23, 9:52am
Shopping season around the corner. I recommend BUY.
Philistine says
Vornado and Pershing Square exiting JCP
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/19/vorando-to-exit-remaing-stake-j-c-penney/?mod=yahoo_hs
FortWayne
2013 Sep 24, 4:48am
Shopping season around the corner. I recommend BUY.
Vornado and Pershing Square exiting JCP
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/19/vorando-to-exit-remaing-stake-j-c-penney/?mod=yahoo_hs
Why would you simply not run like hell from their stock?
« First « Previous Comments 33 - 72 of 111 Next » Last » Search these comments
This is a stock I have been following closely for a long time. Bought when Soros bought and sold before the last earning and made 40% in one month. I have been thinking about them a lot lately and now recommend a strong buy. Here’s a summary of my reasoning and material background.
Who’s long?
Soros and Ackman. A 25% stake held by two of the most respected investor is a good reason for me. Ackman changed my family when (I mom, brothers and close friends, in law) placed a bet on GGP when they announced bankruptcy and promptly went on for a fourty bagger in 4 years using the same reasoning applied by Ackman (real estate was worth too much). If there is a question that asks who is your favorite author, it would be Soros (albeit someone writes on his behalf)
JCP Background (Permanent of Temporary problems)?
JCP has a 100+ year background. 1,100+ department stores scattered throughout the United States and an online store via JCP.com. Over the years, they used their equity to purchase 400+ stores and own the HQ and distribution facilities. The non-owned stores are likely on long term lease with long term options and likely very favorable. In a nutshell, their cost structure is as favorable as any retailer out there. Basically at a market cap of 3.7B, you are getting Penney at less than 4M per department store and $4sale/market cap and an enterprise value above shares (if you count the true market value of real estate that is not marked-up on the balance sheet). The market is pricing Penney like it would be dead (which may or may not be the case). So obviously understanding whether Penney’s problems are permanent vs. temporary is of great interest to me.
The demise of JCP
The great recession impacted everyone including JCP. It hit JCP consumers especially hard unlike Macy’s whose customers are more upscale and wealthy. Unlike the rest that recovered from the recession, JCP sank further and is especially painful given the bull market in 2009-2013.
Long story short, Ackman kicked out Ullman and Ron Johnson was brought on board. Ron brought his own team from Apple and installed his expensive and risky vision and likely created a hostile work environoment bewteen Ullmans and Johnson's people. The strategy employed by JCP should be studied by every business school now in America as it is fascinating. (When I was in college, Dell and IBM was the study case, but now, JCP and BBRY would be my study). The huge difference between Apple retail and JCP retail is about 1M SKU’s and customers that seek the deals. Apple sells Iphone, Ipad, Ibook for the same $599, 1,099 price and sells itself. JCP is a completely different beast. Ron Johnson’s fit was a disaster and under his watch, burned through 1B in capex and burned through another 1B in operating losses and alienated customers. Revenue went from the 17B’s to 12B, practically unheard of in the retail industry to fall that far that fast. SSS was negative 25%. The financial metric was an outright disaster and the PR was a disaster. Further, Johnson got into some legal issues with Martha Stewart and Macy. If there was ever a board you want to be a fly on the wall, JCP was the one to see what the Board asks and how Johnson responded. In March, Johnson out and familiar face Ullman in. Penney was described as a disaster, mess and much worst. Soros buy.
Here was some of JCP’s problems:
•Fair and square pricing in lieu of discounts on top of discounts. This was a bad maneuver. Customers like to feel like they got a deal and there are customers that buy and not look at price tag. In the first category, you lose customers who are trained on feeling like they got a deal, in the second category, you underpriced the product and lost revenue. The retail world sells inventory in full retail price when it is fresh off the shelves and discount it to get rid of it. It is the straightforward and proven way to manage inventory. When you sell 100K different things, that is the only way to go. This is a temporary problem not a perm problem.
•Cap-ex and shop in shop. In all fairness, Johnson was either going to be a hero or a zero. The shop in shop concept is actually well deployed in places like Asia and successful, it gives branded retailers incentive and push to partner with JCP. Ullman already started with the Sephora make-up store and by all accounts, it was successful. Johnson pressed the button to cap-ex the home store, clothing store and children’s store. It’s probably one of the biggest riskiest bet for retail. (huge cap-ex, taking out floor space and sacrifice performance and you have customers that may not accept the new brands). The dumped St. John which was a basic men's category which was a huge mistake.
A lot of the cash burn and SSS was expected. That strategy is yet to be determined. I have been visiting JCP a lot lately in different areas of town and observing traffic and conversion. I went on mother’s day and father’s day to further look at foot traffic and conversions as those are key dates to department stores. It’s been mixed.
Overall, I’m a believer in the strategy. Once the home store are all in business, the Disney stores comes in for back to school and all the shops are in place for the critical holiday season, JCP may be in business and I would not be surprise they can get back from 12B – 17B. It takes 6 months of planning to deliver results as decisions are made now for the critical holiday month and JCP is as focused as it has ever been in 100 years. lol A good friend of mine works at Levi’s and they are pleased with the Levis store at JCP and am working hard to increase traffic there specifically. More so than selling more jeans to Macy's as they have more reasons to see JCP do well than Macy's.
• Win back lost customers: I don’t think consumer hold any grudge against JCP. In the end, JCP is an anchor store on one of the wing. They’ll come as long as the consumer confidence and economic environment is fine and get used to shopping by brand instead of category. bring back what works for the older shoppers and continue to engage the younger shopper it was trying to appeal to. It’s a matter of getting the right product at the right price and become cusomer focused. It’s not terribly new anyway as Macy’s have their branded stores anyway.
• Retail climate. JCP is shielded from Europe and Asia so their health is based solely on the American consumer and betting on the american middle class. Online stores have been eating everyone but I don’t think malls are going away, just need to be righsized. It helps JCP that fair market act are coming on board (possibly) and Obamacare penalty provision are delayed another year. The US tax system,(inluding locally) and policies will be generally supportive of domestic business that hires American workers.
So I’ve convinced myself to buy JCP again (thinks the big issues are temporary). It is a great risk vs. reward play. I really think by back to school and this Christmas, JCP will be clearly trending up again. They have a lot of press lately and I think they have a legit shot once all the stores, marketing, promotions, brands are finally on line at the same time (by back to school). Downside $12 by December and upside $30 if it is clear their turnaround efforts are (not)working and funds will come on board big time.
I am long @ a tad under $17. (Sold for $13 when Ackman was out) Good luck.
#politics