patrick.net

marcus says

somehow Bap discounts it. It's as if "hey, Zimmerman was 100% certain Martin was up to no good, based on his appearance, and wanted to take armed action based on that belief

not how I see it at all. Zim was armed to be ready for the unforseen .. like boyscouts are taught. And it saved him from possible death. He did not run home and get his gun and go hunting for the prowler. You are shaping the situation to fit your bias (or the mass hysteria bias), but I am not.

marcus says

Do you think lynching of black men could have even happened if African Americans were at the time the dominant majority culture ??

every slave that was picked up in Africa was sold to traders by Aficans. The slaves were the losers of wars and victims of kidnapping, and either got on the ship or where murdered by their African capters. Your point?

marcus says

Hate crime laws by definition protect minorities against bias related violence.

and that is the stupidest thing any civilization could ever dream up ... special laws that are drempt up for a special sect of the group. Who is the insane idiot that can't imagine a crazy sodomite --- like the wiki-leak mole --- taking action against a person or entity based on their sexual orientation??? How much more obvious can a hate crime be??? Blacks attacking a white, and boasting that it was 1) retailiation (vigilaty BIG TIME) and 2) justified because they are the same color as Trevon and the victim was not. Yea /// that would be a friggin race based HATE crime if there really were any need or reason for such a stupid assed idea as "hate crime" enhancement tied to plain old crime.

Sleep well marcus

Bap33 says

The slaves were the losers of wars and victims of kidnapping, and either got on the ship or where murdered by their African capters. Your point?

Wtf ?

My point was about hate crime being about crimes against minority individuals, and that's why it seems skewed to you.

What is your point, with the bit about slaves being sold to slave traders by evil African scumbags ? What does that have to do with anything ? I'm not interested in trying to figure out who was the most evil in slave trafficing. Was it the traders who bought and sold slaves to other traders who bought and sold them or the farmers and others who bought them, or the initial (evil) profiteers who couldn't resist the price being paid for their fellow Africans. My guess is that those most likely to be taken in to slaverly were small tribal groups that didn't have advanced weaponry or awareness of the scumbags that they should have been fearing.

Kind of off topic from your confusion about why the name "hate crime" ends up attached to some hate based crimes and not others.

Bap33 says

Zim was armed to be ready for the unforseen .. like boyscouts are taught.

We now know in hindsight based on his well documented innapropriate emotional outbreaks and associated assaults (and what happened with Martin), that he never should have had a gun.

Bap33 says

And it saved him from possible death

I would give 3 to one odds on a huge bet that without the gun he would not have stalked Martin and confronted him. Again, it's quite obvious that he was not emotionally and psychologically balanced enough to even have a gun, let alone pretend he's a law enforcement officer imagining that he has some special powers enabling him to magically know what a fellow citizen's intentions are.

(most real cops don't do that - but at least when a real cop stops you to ask you what you're doing - you know its a cop and usually feel somewhat safe, from physical harm - even if their profiling was unfair)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

This just in from Reuters.

Bap33 says

How you can equate a watchmen on patrol to protect his, and his neighbors life and treasure, that was jumped by a prowler that matched the exact description of the common perps of the area, who defended himself from the prowlers attack and attempt to cause great bodily harm,....

You and your kind are the worst of the worst when it comes to stupidity....your a flat out racist who denies being such.

It has been proven Trayvon Martin was headed to the store and was a member of the same neighborhood you claim he prowled. Where was the fucking blood on Zimmermans shirt since Martin was on top bashing his head in? Where was the marks on his back? on his head? Now you want to label him a prowler. He was a 17 year old kid, who was afraid after having a strange man following him. Yeah, he made the mistake of behaving suspciously and pulling his hoodie over his head but that gives your punk ass no right to show no remorse for this accident. You have a history of showing no remorse towards the poor, blacks or mexicans. You called your neighbors Pedro, called blacks negroes as if you were at war with a people whom you wanted to dehumanize.

Your words hold the economic power of a squirrel nibbling on a walnut. You represent the white power movement very well along with your Tea Party cohorts. While the rest of America attempts to figure out how to move forward with our lives as one people you continue your precious rants on why no one but Aryans belong here or deserve the right to walk down the street without being followed.

The reason you will lose in the end is because no one President is sending 60 million Mexicans and 50 millions blacks packing because the combined economic effect would be catastrophic to our economy.

In the end, you will have to learn to get along or hang yourself with the same noose you been making the past 12 hours.

You are full of shit, America doesnt need this type of unemotional hate filled rhetoric.

People are trying to come together as one, and here you come to call us spicks, spooks and wetbacks.

Way to go dumbass!

I bet everything your weak ass it at home in your underwear waiting on your next welfare check from Fannie Mae on the house you bought with tax dollars.

Hypocritical fuck!

marcus says

What is your point, with the bit about slaves being sold to slave traders by evil African scumbags ?

Exactly, the warlords are just as at fault with their bullshit. All this was is a cry for help.

Bap33 says

You and Clarence are of the same racebaiter tribe ... you may even be the same poster. Maybe.

N0 bastard, I have held other debates with Marcus prior in other forums. Eat shit and die....right along with your hate filled stupidity.

People came to America from all over, but some of us just were not accepted like the Jews, Irish and Italians were.

If Zimmerman didn't have a gun and he knew that Trayvon had a gun, will Zimmerman stalk Trayvon?

If Zimmerman had a gun and he knew that Trayvon had a gun too, will Zimmerman stalk Trayvon?

If Trayvon was white, will Zimmerman stalk Trayvon?

Yep, this case is all about gun and race.

Honest Abe says

This just in from Reuters.

Why no mention of Zimmerman's past troubles controlling his temper, his arrests, his being fired from the security job etc ? Could it be that the article is PR?

I wonder how much it costs to get that type of thing published. Maybe it's good will on the part of the reuters, to help there be some neutral potential jurists.

Bap33 says

If Lord Barry had a son it would look like the animals that raped and mutilated the young white kids too.

Surely you aren't as stupid as you appear.

Obama's comment was addressing the obvious (to anyone objective) probable connection between how Martin looked and his being followed and eventually confronted and shot by Zimmerman.

There is an implied assessment on Obama's part that Martin was a victim (based on his apperance). It's not that we know with total certainty that it's the case. But anyone who isn't severely retarded knows that it appears to be the case.

marcus, here is why I mentioned the way slaves were made.

marcus says

Do you think lynching of black men could have even happened if African Americans were at the time the dominant majority culture ??

So, I pointed out a negro majority culture that was mistreating negros. The same thing goes on now with machettes on the necks of African Christian negros, placed there by African muslamislamic negros. I was only answering the question you raised.

The facts are the last thing looked for by the anti-white-middle class press thus far. I mean, they even used the words "white hispanic" in their efforts to make this about race. They invented Zim saying "coon" to help fan some flames ... and funny, when that was proved false the liberal press and the racebaitors just kept rolling full speed without regard to facts ... ask Spike Lee, Al Jackson and Jesse Sharpten, the Black Panthers, the CBS worker that edited the 911 call, the media putting out these youthful pics of Martin to hide his actual appearence, and even better how the entire racebaiting parade pretends that a 17 year old negro male can not possibly be dangerous ... you guys care to read the stats on the ages that most negro males are when they start to do violent things?

By the way, back to Zim not saying, "coon" ..... why would his use of that word make him a bad person, a racist, or a killer?? Should Zim be arrested for using a slang word that offends people that are only offended if a person they feel should not use a phrase does so??? Like, are you suggesting that a select group should have full right to enjoy unrestricted use of words, and also be given the right to be offended and seek retribution should a person not in the group utter the phrase???? ya ... right along with "hate crime", PC Speech or "hate speech" is unAmerican. Disgusting.

Clarence you are pathetic. You take personal shots at an imaginary profile on a blog site? As soon as you ran out of original thoughts, you knew you needed to attack the person .. a common libtard act. Your personal attacks are not allowed on PatNet. Go start your own site. You should call it Racebaitors Inc. Or, maybe How to Hate 101. Adios punk.

Marcus,
have a good day. Tomorrow has better things in store.

marcus says

Obama's comment was addressing the obvious (to anyone objective) probable connection between how Martin looked and his being followed and eventually confronted and shot by Zimmerman.

Lord Barry said, "if I had a son he would look like Trevon."
I say, "if Lord Barry had a son he would look like one of the murdering animals in the story I shared."
Both are due to how the people match how Lord Barry looks. Why does that make me stupid? If Lord Barry wants to say he matches someone's appearence, that is his choice. And he does. But, others match too. Right?

Bap33 says

Lord Barry said

You have a typo you wrote Lord where you meant President of the United States.

potAto potato

Honest Abe says

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

This just in from Reuters.

well now ... who will be the first of the racebaitors on here to admit they were wrong?? I'll be holding my breath.

Bap33 says

well now ... who will be the first of the racebaitors on here to admit they were wrong?? I'll be holding my breath.

That article doe not contradict anything said here.

marcus says

Honest Abe says

This just in from Reuters.

Why no mention of Zimmerman's past troubles controlling his temper, his arrests, his being fired from the security job etc ? Could it be that the article is PR?

I wonder how much it costs to get that type of thing published. Maybe it's good will on the part of the reuters, to help there be some neutral potential jurists.

Getting a great laugh at the hypocrisy on this post. There has not even been a trial yet.... Keep it coming.... LMAO...

I think Jack said it best,

http://www.MPMmC0UAnj0

Bap33 says

Lord Barry said, "if I had a son he would look like Trevon."

I'll spell it out again. I think you know. For weeks this had been talked about, especially among African American media. Many felt and still feel that what happened to Martin was due to his appearance as an African American teen.

We know it's true. Even the article above talks about the belief that black kids had burglarized homes in that community. Of course it takes a special kind of stupid to assume that every black kid is such a criminal.

Do you really not get this ? The part about an assessment made by Zimmerman that this kid was a criminal based on his appearance ?

(you can go off talking about Spike Lee or whomever had an over the top reaction - but at least you could acknowledge that what they were over reacting to - and what Obama was commenting on (not over reacting) makes sense.)

How can you possibly not get it ? Could you just acknowledge that you get it and that it makes sense, and then go back to calling everyone racebaiters so that I know you aren't totally beyond hope.

dude, I said it made sense for Zim to suspect a person that matched the common perp in that area that had been doing bad things of late ... way way back in the early parts of this I said it only made sense to know the description of the most likely bad guy to look for while on patrol. The black lady that was interviewed (but was afraid of being attacked for being honest, so she stayed annon) she said that the area had been targeted by "young black males". So, sure, we both agree that Zim knew what to be on the lookout for - a person matching the description of the home invaders and robbers in that area - and we both agree that Treyvon matched 90% of the profile of the local bad guys. We agree.
You take on the task of making a trail in the woods safe for walking. The last 5 guys that walked that trail were bit by a rattlesnake. You arm yourself incase you come across a rattler. What this means is there is a very good chance that you would shoot a gopher snake if one was on that same trail as you walked along. Anyone would. A gophersnake can coil up and hiss and strike and unless you are 100% sure, that gopher snake is just another rattle snake that can hurt you or the next person to hike that trail. Millions of harmless (beneficial even) gopher snakes are killed every year because of how they look. The snake they look like has done bad things to many people, and is well known to be very dangerous. The people are not to blame. The gopher snake is not to blame. The rattle snake is to blame.

No, I am not trying to equate anything about anything, I'm just searching for a good analogy to express what I know to be facts of life and survival.

@leo,
it does not contridict you because you phrase your position with at least a little bit of uncertainty. But, it clearly is not in line with what some others have wrote.

Bap33 says

By the way, back to Zim not saying, "coon" ..... why would his use of that word make him a bad person, a racist, or a killer??

If I called you a CRAKKKA and your wife a faded out white bitch would it make you feel that I was fond of White America?...huh, you piece of shit?

Bap33 says

I'm just searching for a good analogy to express what I know to be facts of life and survival.

So weak. For one thing that the burglaries were done by black kids was the story, but was easily not even the case. For all we know, Zimmerman was the burgler (part of his psychotic personality) and he built up the story that it was black kids. OR some other racist easily could have turned burglaries in to "black kids." It could even be that, people assuming it was black kids, AND they were right !

Who knows ?

But no mattter what, even if it had been black kids, your snake analogy doesn't quite work. In fact part of the definition of second degree murder rather than manslaughter is disregard for human life (implied in your analogy "hey it's a snake - close enough")

Something else that's implied by your refusal to answer my question is that you are possibly even less facile with logic than Zimmerman.

Let's supposed that those burglaries were done by black kids. And lets even further suppose that black kids aren't seen in that neighborhood all that often.

DO you really think that that means just seeing a black kid in the neighborhood makes it all that likely that he is a burgler ? If so, you're an idiot.

marcus says

Who knows ?

you did not read the linked article?

marcus says

Let's supposed that those burglaries were done by black kids. And lets even further suppose that black kids aren't seen in that neighborhood all that often.
DO you really think that that means just seeing a black kid in the neighborhood makes it all that likely that he is a burgler ? If so, you're an idiot.

No, you friggin dipshit, what that means is the chances are pretty good that a bad guy that you find while on patrol will match the same descriptions found in all of the police reports and interviews of victims in the area. All of them. You can't be so stupid as to think a person should not use survival skills, or basic intellect, while on patrol for criminal activity?? How do you expect to perform such a task without some sort of "what to look for"?? Don't be an ass, just to be an ass.

go read the article, please.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

The PR piece that didn't discuss any of the negatives of zimmerman's history? Yes I read it. I understood "the word" was black kids were behind the burglaries. Someone saw a black kid looking in to a home. Seems believable, and I can see how it would prove all burglaries were done by black kids. I can also imagine some racist saying
burglaries = ******* .. And then someone says how do you know ? And they make up some BS. Or maybe it's true.

You probably didn't read my whole comment. Because it's irrelevant to my point. Which I understand you refuse to comprehend. Hey, that's just how you (t)roll.

Bap33 says

No, you friggin dipshit, what that means is the chances are pretty good that a bad guy that you find while on patrol will match the same descriptions found in all of the police reports and interviews of victims in the area.

Got to get to work, but this is an over the top logic error. And you probably even know that. If not, I'm sorry, I didn't know. Hey, you have many other strengths. There are other types of intelligence.

dude, please,

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

""On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.

Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.

Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.""

Hey, guess what, that makes this bad guy under 18, 17 and 16 ... wow!! ... he's just a child!!

So marcus, go read the story, please. Open eyes and open mind and open heart. You'll be fine.

I do read your entire response. You sometimes respond like you take my postings as direct insults of like I am being snide. I aint.

I read the article. What if the roofers were the burglers ?Bap33 says

Hey, guess what, that makes this bad guy under 18, 17 and 16 ... wow!! ... he's just a child!!

Same serious logic error.

If you think someone fits the description of a criminal, not only does this not give you the right to kill them, it doesn't even give you the right to detain them until police come. Really, if you aren't seriously stupid and emotionally challenged, you probably shouldn't even stalk them. Not even if you are the "neighborhood watch captain" with a gun.

(maybe especially if you are the "neighborhood watch captain" with a gun.)

Bap33 says

@leo,

it does not contridict you because you phrase your position with at least a little bit of uncertainty. But, it clearly is not in line with what some others have wrote.

I phrase it with uncertainty because we are not certain. As pointed out by marcus "others" wrote a puff piece that failed to mention many facts that we do know about Zimmerman.

Bap33 says

chances are pretty good that a bad guy that you find while on patrol

Patrolling and finding bad guy is so not the function of a neighborhood watch. It's supposed to be about getting people involved in watching so that bad guys will stay away.

I guess you could argue that killing someone because they look slightly more like a bad guy than the average guy in the neighborhood does serve that purpose too.

@leo,
This story you call "puff". THe actions of the mass media and Spike Lee and Sharpten and Jackson and The Black Panthers and the CBS edit must be >puff, right? I mean, can you agree that the efforts put in place to make this about race were wrong? And the demand for some proof that Zim was being beaten "bad enough" to defend himself, is that ok with you? I agree, you have stayed balanced on the rim, but you are leaning towards the "negative about Zim camp", and I think that is effecting your view about some issues.

The shooting was not a planned action. Being ready for something to go wrong is all that happened. Zim was ready, in the event things went bad, like another piut-bull attack. That is what went down.

@marcus,

marcus says

Patrolling and finding bad guy is so not the function of a neighborhood watch.

marcus says

It's supposed to be about getting people involved in watching

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/watching
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patrolling
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Neighborhood+watch

you will find the word "patrolling" comes up alot in the description of the Neighborhood Watch.

NEXT!!

marcus says

I read the article. What if the roofers were the burglers ?Bap33 says

Hey, guess what, that makes this bad guy under 18, 17 and 16 ... wow!! ... he's just a child!!

Same serious logic error.

Then the roofer sold the loot to the same guy that was busted for robbery at the age of 15, 16, and spent all of 2010 in youth jail, and was seen prowling in the area not long before..... READ THE STORY. The past age of the criminal is found by taking his current age and subtracting.

cmon dude, use your advanced reading skills!

Bap33 says

THe actions of the mass media and Spike Lee and Sharpten and Jackson and The Black Panthers and the CBS edit must be >puff, right? I mean, can you agree that the efforts put in place to make this about race were wrong?

While I don't totally agree with them, they are not totally wrong. Would Trayvon have been killed if he was white? No, so it is understandable that people have been upset about the race issue.

Also, at least Spike Lee "[Did] the Right Thing" when he realized that he made a mistake.

Bap33 says

And the demand for some proof that Zim was being beaten "bad enough" to defend himself, is that ok with you?

It is not about Zimmerman "being beaten bad enough to defend himself". That would be what we refer to as a straw man argument. In any state in the union, stand your ground law or not, you can kill someone who has not even laid a hand on you.

Zimmerman's claims that he suffered a sustained assault that would have resulted in some serious injury. There is not only no evidence of the injury, but evidence to the contrary. This makes Zimmerman appear to be a liar, and brings his entire story of events into question.

Bap33 says

I agree, you have stayed balanced on the rim, but you are leaning towards the "negative about Zim camp", and I think that is effecting your view about some issues.

My views are only affected by the data we have on hand. That data does not support the "hero" Zimmerman narrative.

I am totally for people shooting others in self-defense. I applaud when it happens in a legitimate light. I own quite a few guns, and have in the past had a concealed carry permit for my 9mm Glock and Ruger .357. I have never had to brandish or shoot a gun in self-defense, but have kept a hand on it in a few situations.

Based on his history Zimmerman does not seem to be fit to carry a weapon. He has displayed severe impulse and anger issues in the past. This is NOT the type of armed citizen we should want.

Bap33 says

The shooting was not a planned action.

If it was the charge would have been 1st degree murder instead of 2nd degree.

Bap33 says

Being ready for something to go wrong is all that happened. Zim was ready, in the event things went bad, like another piut-bull attack.

I have no problem with being ready. I was a boyscout, and have always said that I would rather have my gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

The problem is that Zimmerman instigated something bad happening. I don't believe his story for all the reasons laid out in this thread.

Bap33 says

The past age of the criminal is found by taking his current age and subtracting.

Are you saying that Zimmerman was looking for a teenager?

Hmmm... that is not what he said in his "apology" to his family. He said that he thought Trayvon was only a couple years younger than Zimmerman.

Bap33 says

you will find the word "patrolling" comes up alot in the description of the Neighborhood Watch

A neighborhood watch that carries guns is called a gang-- especially if they use the guns.

Bap33 says

THe actions of the mass media and Spike Lee and Sharpten and Jackson and The Black Panthers and the CBS edit must be >puff, right? I mean, can you agree that the efforts put in place to make this about race were wrong?

OK, I agree that the efforts to make this about race are mostly wrong.

See, I can say...

Sharpten (always an idiot in my book), the Panthers are idiots.

...and...

Jackson is a little bit of an idiot...

...and...

Spike Lee made a stupid mistake, but did the right thing...

...and...

Those responsible at CBS were rightly admonished.

I can say all those things, and still look at the current data set and say, "Zimmerman is probably guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, he killed Trayvon when he did not need to and should not have. Zimmerman also 'profiled' based on race. If Trayvon was white he would be alive today."

Bap the problem for you seems to be that you are making it about race as much as your loathed "race-baiters". You seem to laud as a hero -- the seemingly in the wrong -- non-black shooter, and demonize -- the apparently innocent -- black teenager. If Trayvon was a white kid shot in the exact same circumstance I doubt you would have the same stance on this issue.

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

The past age of the criminal is found by taking his current age and subtracting.

Are you saying that Zimmerman was looking for a teenager?

Hmmm... that is not what he said in his "apology" to his family. He said that he thought Trayvon was only a couple years younger than Zimmerman.

nope, I was explaining the comment to marcus. The bad guy was yunger than Martin, who was portrayed as being too yuthful to be a threat to anyone. That was where that came about.