patrick.net

Honest Abe says

This just in from Reuters.

Why no mention of Zimmerman's past troubles controlling his temper, his arrests, his being fired from the security job etc ? Could it be that the article is PR?

I wonder how much it costs to get that type of thing published. Maybe it's good will on the part of the reuters, to help there be some neutral potential jurists.

Bap33 says

If Lord Barry had a son it would look like the animals that raped and mutilated the young white kids too.

Surely you aren't as stupid as you appear.

Obama's comment was addressing the obvious (to anyone objective) probable connection between how Martin looked and his being followed and eventually confronted and shot by Zimmerman.

There is an implied assessment on Obama's part that Martin was a victim (based on his apperance). It's not that we know with total certainty that it's the case. But anyone who isn't severely retarded knows that it appears to be the case.

marcus, here is why I mentioned the way slaves were made.

marcus says

Do you think lynching of black men could have even happened if African Americans were at the time the dominant majority culture ??

So, I pointed out a negro majority culture that was mistreating negros. The same thing goes on now with machettes on the necks of African Christian negros, placed there by African muslamislamic negros. I was only answering the question you raised.

The facts are the last thing looked for by the anti-white-middle class press thus far. I mean, they even used the words "white hispanic" in their efforts to make this about race. They invented Zim saying "coon" to help fan some flames ... and funny, when that was proved false the liberal press and the racebaitors just kept rolling full speed without regard to facts ... ask Spike Lee, Al Jackson and Jesse Sharpten, the Black Panthers, the CBS worker that edited the 911 call, the media putting out these youthful pics of Martin to hide his actual appearence, and even better how the entire racebaiting parade pretends that a 17 year old negro male can not possibly be dangerous ... you guys care to read the stats on the ages that most negro males are when they start to do violent things?

By the way, back to Zim not saying, "coon" ..... why would his use of that word make him a bad person, a racist, or a killer?? Should Zim be arrested for using a slang word that offends people that are only offended if a person they feel should not use a phrase does so??? Like, are you suggesting that a select group should have full right to enjoy unrestricted use of words, and also be given the right to be offended and seek retribution should a person not in the group utter the phrase???? ya ... right along with "hate crime", PC Speech or "hate speech" is unAmerican. Disgusting.

Clarence you are pathetic. You take personal shots at an imaginary profile on a blog site? As soon as you ran out of original thoughts, you knew you needed to attack the person .. a common libtard act. Your personal attacks are not allowed on PatNet. Go start your own site. You should call it Racebaitors Inc. Or, maybe How to Hate 101. Adios punk.

Marcus,
have a good day. Tomorrow has better things in store.

marcus says

Obama's comment was addressing the obvious (to anyone objective) probable connection between how Martin looked and his being followed and eventually confronted and shot by Zimmerman.

Lord Barry said, "if I had a son he would look like Trevon."
I say, "if Lord Barry had a son he would look like one of the murdering animals in the story I shared."
Both are due to how the people match how Lord Barry looks. Why does that make me stupid? If Lord Barry wants to say he matches someone's appearence, that is his choice. And he does. But, others match too. Right?

Bap33 says

Lord Barry said

You have a typo you wrote Lord where you meant President of the United States.

potAto potato

Honest Abe says

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

This just in from Reuters.

well now ... who will be the first of the racebaitors on here to admit they were wrong?? I'll be holding my breath.

Bap33 says

well now ... who will be the first of the racebaitors on here to admit they were wrong?? I'll be holding my breath.

That article doe not contradict anything said here.

marcus says

Honest Abe says

This just in from Reuters.

Why no mention of Zimmerman's past troubles controlling his temper, his arrests, his being fired from the security job etc ? Could it be that the article is PR?

I wonder how much it costs to get that type of thing published. Maybe it's good will on the part of the reuters, to help there be some neutral potential jurists.

Getting a great laugh at the hypocrisy on this post. There has not even been a trial yet.... Keep it coming.... LMAO...

I think Jack said it best,

http://www.MPMmC0UAnj0

Bap33 says

Lord Barry said, "if I had a son he would look like Trevon."

I'll spell it out again. I think you know. For weeks this had been talked about, especially among African American media. Many felt and still feel that what happened to Martin was due to his appearance as an African American teen.

We know it's true. Even the article above talks about the belief that black kids had burglarized homes in that community. Of course it takes a special kind of stupid to assume that every black kid is such a criminal.

Do you really not get this ? The part about an assessment made by Zimmerman that this kid was a criminal based on his appearance ?

(you can go off talking about Spike Lee or whomever had an over the top reaction - but at least you could acknowledge that what they were over reacting to - and what Obama was commenting on (not over reacting) makes sense.)

How can you possibly not get it ? Could you just acknowledge that you get it and that it makes sense, and then go back to calling everyone racebaiters so that I know you aren't totally beyond hope.

dude, I said it made sense for Zim to suspect a person that matched the common perp in that area that had been doing bad things of late ... way way back in the early parts of this I said it only made sense to know the description of the most likely bad guy to look for while on patrol. The black lady that was interviewed (but was afraid of being attacked for being honest, so she stayed annon) she said that the area had been targeted by "young black males". So, sure, we both agree that Zim knew what to be on the lookout for - a person matching the description of the home invaders and robbers in that area - and we both agree that Treyvon matched 90% of the profile of the local bad guys. We agree.
You take on the task of making a trail in the woods safe for walking. The last 5 guys that walked that trail were bit by a rattlesnake. You arm yourself incase you come across a rattler. What this means is there is a very good chance that you would shoot a gopher snake if one was on that same trail as you walked along. Anyone would. A gophersnake can coil up and hiss and strike and unless you are 100% sure, that gopher snake is just another rattle snake that can hurt you or the next person to hike that trail. Millions of harmless (beneficial even) gopher snakes are killed every year because of how they look. The snake they look like has done bad things to many people, and is well known to be very dangerous. The people are not to blame. The gopher snake is not to blame. The rattle snake is to blame.

No, I am not trying to equate anything about anything, I'm just searching for a good analogy to express what I know to be facts of life and survival.

@leo,
it does not contridict you because you phrase your position with at least a little bit of uncertainty. But, it clearly is not in line with what some others have wrote.

Bap33 says

By the way, back to Zim not saying, "coon" ..... why would his use of that word make him a bad person, a racist, or a killer??

If I called you a CRAKKKA and your wife a faded out white bitch would it make you feel that I was fond of White America?...huh, you piece of shit?

Bap33 says

I'm just searching for a good analogy to express what I know to be facts of life and survival.

So weak. For one thing that the burglaries were done by black kids was the story, but was easily not even the case. For all we know, Zimmerman was the burgler (part of his psychotic personality) and he built up the story that it was black kids. OR some other racist easily could have turned burglaries in to "black kids." It could even be that, people assuming it was black kids, AND they were right !

Who knows ?

But no mattter what, even if it had been black kids, your snake analogy doesn't quite work. In fact part of the definition of second degree murder rather than manslaughter is disregard for human life (implied in your analogy "hey it's a snake - close enough")

Something else that's implied by your refusal to answer my question is that you are possibly even less facile with logic than Zimmerman.

Let's supposed that those burglaries were done by black kids. And lets even further suppose that black kids aren't seen in that neighborhood all that often.

DO you really think that that means just seeing a black kid in the neighborhood makes it all that likely that he is a burgler ? If so, you're an idiot.

marcus says

Who knows ?

you did not read the linked article?

marcus says

Let's supposed that those burglaries were done by black kids. And lets even further suppose that black kids aren't seen in that neighborhood all that often.
DO you really think that that means just seeing a black kid in the neighborhood makes it all that likely that he is a burgler ? If so, you're an idiot.

No, you friggin dipshit, what that means is the chances are pretty good that a bad guy that you find while on patrol will match the same descriptions found in all of the police reports and interviews of victims in the area. All of them. You can't be so stupid as to think a person should not use survival skills, or basic intellect, while on patrol for criminal activity?? How do you expect to perform such a task without some sort of "what to look for"?? Don't be an ass, just to be an ass.

go read the article, please.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

The PR piece that didn't discuss any of the negatives of zimmerman's history? Yes I read it. I understood "the word" was black kids were behind the burglaries. Someone saw a black kid looking in to a home. Seems believable, and I can see how it would prove all burglaries were done by black kids. I can also imagine some racist saying
burglaries = ******* .. And then someone says how do you know ? And they make up some BS. Or maybe it's true.

You probably didn't read my whole comment. Because it's irrelevant to my point. Which I understand you refuse to comprehend. Hey, that's just how you (t)roll.

Bap33 says

No, you friggin dipshit, what that means is the chances are pretty good that a bad guy that you find while on patrol will match the same descriptions found in all of the police reports and interviews of victims in the area.

Got to get to work, but this is an over the top logic error. And you probably even know that. If not, I'm sorry, I didn't know. Hey, you have many other strengths. There are other types of intelligence.

dude, please,

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

""On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.

Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.

Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.""

Hey, guess what, that makes this bad guy under 18, 17 and 16 ... wow!! ... he's just a child!!

So marcus, go read the story, please. Open eyes and open mind and open heart. You'll be fine.

I do read your entire response. You sometimes respond like you take my postings as direct insults of like I am being snide. I aint.

I read the article. What if the roofers were the burglers ?Bap33 says

Hey, guess what, that makes this bad guy under 18, 17 and 16 ... wow!! ... he's just a child!!

Same serious logic error.

If you think someone fits the description of a criminal, not only does this not give you the right to kill them, it doesn't even give you the right to detain them until police come. Really, if you aren't seriously stupid and emotionally challenged, you probably shouldn't even stalk them. Not even if you are the "neighborhood watch captain" with a gun.

(maybe especially if you are the "neighborhood watch captain" with a gun.)

Bap33 says

@leo,

it does not contridict you because you phrase your position with at least a little bit of uncertainty. But, it clearly is not in line with what some others have wrote.

I phrase it with uncertainty because we are not certain. As pointed out by marcus "others" wrote a puff piece that failed to mention many facts that we do know about Zimmerman.

Bap33 says

chances are pretty good that a bad guy that you find while on patrol

Patrolling and finding bad guy is so not the function of a neighborhood watch. It's supposed to be about getting people involved in watching so that bad guys will stay away.

I guess you could argue that killing someone because they look slightly more like a bad guy than the average guy in the neighborhood does serve that purpose too.

@leo,
This story you call "puff". THe actions of the mass media and Spike Lee and Sharpten and Jackson and The Black Panthers and the CBS edit must be >puff, right? I mean, can you agree that the efforts put in place to make this about race were wrong? And the demand for some proof that Zim was being beaten "bad enough" to defend himself, is that ok with you? I agree, you have stayed balanced on the rim, but you are leaning towards the "negative about Zim camp", and I think that is effecting your view about some issues.

The shooting was not a planned action. Being ready for something to go wrong is all that happened. Zim was ready, in the event things went bad, like another piut-bull attack. That is what went down.

@marcus,

marcus says

Patrolling and finding bad guy is so not the function of a neighborhood watch.

marcus says

It's supposed to be about getting people involved in watching

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/watching
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patrolling
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Neighborhood+watch

you will find the word "patrolling" comes up alot in the description of the Neighborhood Watch.

NEXT!!

marcus says

I read the article. What if the roofers were the burglers ?Bap33 says

Hey, guess what, that makes this bad guy under 18, 17 and 16 ... wow!! ... he's just a child!!

Same serious logic error.

Then the roofer sold the loot to the same guy that was busted for robbery at the age of 15, 16, and spent all of 2010 in youth jail, and was seen prowling in the area not long before..... READ THE STORY. The past age of the criminal is found by taking his current age and subtracting.

cmon dude, use your advanced reading skills!

Bap33 says

THe actions of the mass media and Spike Lee and Sharpten and Jackson and The Black Panthers and the CBS edit must be >puff, right? I mean, can you agree that the efforts put in place to make this about race were wrong?

While I don't totally agree with them, they are not totally wrong. Would Trayvon have been killed if he was white? No, so it is understandable that people have been upset about the race issue.

Also, at least Spike Lee "[Did] the Right Thing" when he realized that he made a mistake.

Bap33 says

And the demand for some proof that Zim was being beaten "bad enough" to defend himself, is that ok with you?

It is not about Zimmerman "being beaten bad enough to defend himself". That would be what we refer to as a straw man argument. In any state in the union, stand your ground law or not, you can kill someone who has not even laid a hand on you.

Zimmerman's claims that he suffered a sustained assault that would have resulted in some serious injury. There is not only no evidence of the injury, but evidence to the contrary. This makes Zimmerman appear to be a liar, and brings his entire story of events into question.

Bap33 says

I agree, you have stayed balanced on the rim, but you are leaning towards the "negative about Zim camp", and I think that is effecting your view about some issues.

My views are only affected by the data we have on hand. That data does not support the "hero" Zimmerman narrative.

I am totally for people shooting others in self-defense. I applaud when it happens in a legitimate light. I own quite a few guns, and have in the past had a concealed carry permit for my 9mm Glock and Ruger .357. I have never had to brandish or shoot a gun in self-defense, but have kept a hand on it in a few situations.

Based on his history Zimmerman does not seem to be fit to carry a weapon. He has displayed severe impulse and anger issues in the past. This is NOT the type of armed citizen we should want.

Bap33 says

The shooting was not a planned action.

If it was the charge would have been 1st degree murder instead of 2nd degree.

Bap33 says

Being ready for something to go wrong is all that happened. Zim was ready, in the event things went bad, like another piut-bull attack.

I have no problem with being ready. I was a boyscout, and have always said that I would rather have my gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

The problem is that Zimmerman instigated something bad happening. I don't believe his story for all the reasons laid out in this thread.

Bap33 says

The past age of the criminal is found by taking his current age and subtracting.

Are you saying that Zimmerman was looking for a teenager?

Hmmm... that is not what he said in his "apology" to his family. He said that he thought Trayvon was only a couple years younger than Zimmerman.

Bap33 says

you will find the word "patrolling" comes up alot in the description of the Neighborhood Watch

A neighborhood watch that carries guns is called a gang-- especially if they use the guns.

Bap33 says

THe actions of the mass media and Spike Lee and Sharpten and Jackson and The Black Panthers and the CBS edit must be >puff, right? I mean, can you agree that the efforts put in place to make this about race were wrong?

OK, I agree that the efforts to make this about race are mostly wrong.

See, I can say...

Sharpten (always an idiot in my book), the Panthers are idiots.

...and...

Jackson is a little bit of an idiot...

...and...

Spike Lee made a stupid mistake, but did the right thing...

...and...

Those responsible at CBS were rightly admonished.

I can say all those things, and still look at the current data set and say, "Zimmerman is probably guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, he killed Trayvon when he did not need to and should not have. Zimmerman also 'profiled' based on race. If Trayvon was white he would be alive today."

Bap the problem for you seems to be that you are making it about race as much as your loathed "race-baiters". You seem to laud as a hero -- the seemingly in the wrong -- non-black shooter, and demonize -- the apparently innocent -- black teenager. If Trayvon was a white kid shot in the exact same circumstance I doubt you would have the same stance on this issue.

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

The past age of the criminal is found by taking his current age and subtracting.

Are you saying that Zimmerman was looking for a teenager?

Hmmm... that is not what he said in his "apology" to his family. He said that he thought Trayvon was only a couple years younger than Zimmerman.

nope, I was explaining the comment to marcus. The bad guy was yunger than Martin, who was portrayed as being too yuthful to be a threat to anyone. That was where that came about.

leoj707 says

While I don't totally agree with them, they are not totally wrong. Would Trayvon have been killed if he was white? No, so it is understandable that people have been upset about the race issue.

How - in the world - can you make such a statement?? That is nonsense.

leoj707 says

There is not only no evidence of the injury, but evidence to the contrary. This makes Zimmerman appear to be a liar, and brings his entire story of events into question.

you have not seen the video or read the police reports. There was evidence of harm to Zim.

leoj707 says

This is NOT the type of armed citizen we should want.

possible point. But, when your wife is walking out to her car at the mall, or going to the ATM, or home alone,,,, you are not worried about a Zim type of citizen hurting her or robbing her. So, while an armed Zim is an issue for the sect of the population that outwardly matched the sect that causes most of the fear, hurt, and harm to a citizen group in an area, an armed Zim would be no problem for you, me, or ours. Why not have the bad guys be held responsible for making the other citizens so angry and afraid that the innocent people that look like the bad guys are looked at as badguys. (where I was trying to get with the gopher snake, rattle snake example)

Bap33 says

leoj707 says

There is not only no evidence of the injury, but evidence to the contrary. This makes Zimmerman appear to be a liar, and brings his entire story of events into question.

you have not seen the video or read the police reports. There was evidence of harm to Zim.

I have seen the video and am familiar with what the reports. Perhaps you are talking about the "enhanced" video; I have seen that as well.

Perhaps you are not aware of the comments made by the medical professionals who were at the scene.

Clearly there was at least a small scuffle -- in which Trayvon, whos voice was filled with terror, was pleading for help. However, there is absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman was bludgeoned in the manner that he described. No evidence on Zimmeran's face or head, and no evidence on Trayvon's hands. Do you know what a bare knuckled ground-and-pound does to a face and the hands dealing it out?

Bap33 says

leoj707 says

While I don't totally agree with them, they are not totally wrong. Would Trayvon have been killed if he was white? No, so it is understandable that people have been upset about the race issue.

How - in the world - can you make such a statement?? That is nonsense.

Are you saying that you feel Trayvon would have been just as dead if he were white?

leoj707 says

The problem is that Zimmerman instigated something bad happening. I don't believe his story for all the reasons laid out in this thread.

I was not sure about this point until I read what Martin's GF said and his mom. Then I looked at the map to see where each location was. You know, "Martin was here, went there, and was coming back here." Also, "Zim was here, called, spoke to 911 while walking from here to here, and shot Martin here." Along with the neighbors who called 911 and are on tape. Where they are in the layout of things.

I did it on google earth. After I laid it out, and I happen to think it shows why the Martin camp has changed to, "he should be allowed to walk anywhere he wants" from "he was just walking from the store". But, I do not have all the evidence. The last item I need to see is the phone log from Trevon if it has GPS. That would be the only way to patch the holes in the story the GF and Martin camp gave about what has up to. But, it may be just like the GF and Martin family said it was. That kind of info would be interesting. But, as soon as Martin attacked Zim he was wrong. The same freedom that allows Martin to be anywhere he wishes applies to Zim too.

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

leoj707 says

While I don't totally agree with them, they are not totally wrong. Would Trayvon have been killed if he was white? No, so it is understandable that people have been upset about the race issue.

How - in the world - can you make such a statement?? That is nonsense.

Are you saying that you feel Trayvon would have been just as dead if he were white?

I am saying you can not say the only reason the kid was shot was becasue he was black, and you can not say a white kid in the same situation would not have been shot. A shot white kid would be just as dead - obviously.

leoj707 says

If Trayvon was a white kid shot in the exact same circumstance I doubt you would have the same stance on this issue.

nope. You would be wrong. You see, I understand that a weapon evens the ability to inflict harm, but also evens self defense. The best way to avoid "Bully makes rules" is to have a great equalizer. If I were to patrol a rough neighborhood I would do so with a weapon at the ready. Rough neighborhoods have no color boundry.

You would be hard pressed to find a more racist group of people on this planet than the ones that rioted in L.A. becasue the Rodney King cops did not get found guilty. They were convicted, tried, and found not quilty .. and so a bunch of racists rioted. This issue may be the same thing unless the racebaitors are able to force the law to be unjust. Anything based on race is friggin stupid.

Bap33 says

Why not have the bad guys be held responsible for making the other citizens so angry and afraid that the innocent people that look like the bad guys are looked at as badguys.

Christ, Bap do you even realize how racist this sounds?

You realize the only thing that made Trayvon look like a "bad guy" was the color of his skin. Because Trayvon "looked bad" somehow makes it OK for Zimmerman to stalk and kill him?

I am all for holding actual bad guys accountable, but I also think that we should hold accountable people who kill the innocent even if they think they were killing a bad guy. That in my book makes them a bad guy.