patrick.net

thomas.wong1986 says

Take a look at the financials (equity section) Apple isnt writing grants by the thousands... very very few and more to the top. Whats the motive of given them to staffers ? Come work for a young unexperienced tech company... made sense only in the 80s and 90s. Them days are long long gone!

My friends that have gone to Apple as EE's in the last couple of years are making good scratch. Base salaries for them, with ~3 years of work experience, are around $120k. They say that, as long as you get decent performance reviews, your stock grants will double your gross income after about 4 years since by then, you will have a full year's worth of stock awards vesting all at once. Their comment to me was that, "Apple is generous with its stock awards." The pressure there is very high and employees are generally on-call 7 days a week, but they do get well compensated.

bmwman91 says

My friends that have gone to Apple

On the weekend read the last annual 10K from beginning to end.

thomas.wong1986 says

On the weekend read the last annual 10K from beginning to end.

Holy moly, that's a long document. I'll peruse through it. Did they revise their earnings downward with some new accounting methodology?

This is the report, for those with a lot of time to kill.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312510238044/d10k.htm

good thing I bought a house instead of dumping my money into vaporware internet stocks

toothfairy says

good thing I bought a house instead of dumping my money into vaporware internet stocks

If you bought anywhere close to the Fortress, your leverage to vaporware is at least 2x1.

bmwman91 says

The competition certainly is upping their game, but I don't see Apple going out of business any time soon.

If Apple goes out of business, silicon valley used shack prices should approach those of Detroit, except the ones in Detroit are better built, so they should sport a higher price. Current used shack prices anywhere close to the Apple HQR's, are predicated on Apple stock price doubling every year. With the FB pipe dreams out the window, Apple, would, now, need to buy both North and South Korea, just to keep the stock price at the level it is today.

Why would they buy South Korea? Will the iPhone 5 come with Starcraft II?

Sure, if Apple & other major employers go down or leave, this place will see steep RE price declines. That's sort of a "duh" since they are a large part of what is creating the demand to live here, which drives up the prices on the limited supply (artificially & otherwise). If all of the jobs disappeared, I would probably have no choice but to leave too. My father grew up in Buffalo NY, so he knows first-hand what happens when the major employers disappear. He has worried here & there that it might happen here, although I think that the lack of weather here is sort of a big difference. At the rate that the great welfare state of CA is going though, they might just to drive out companies & productive middle class folks from the most climatically desirable place on earth! Leave it to the PINOs (progressives in name only) to screw THAT up lol.

bmwman91 says

thomas.wong1986 says

On the weekend read the last annual 10K from beginning to end.

Holy moly, that's a long document. I'll peruse through it. Did they revise their earnings downward with some new accounting methodology?

This is the report, for those with a lot of time to kill.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312510238044/d10k.htm

Yes, thats how it goes! focus on MD&A section. Skim the Risk section and check the Footnotes section as well as the Auditor report related to revised accounting methods. The 10Q quarterly will also give you heads up on new acct methods. Yes, painful but once you start reading the the misinformation starts to fad away.. at least for the reader.

dunnross says

If Apple goes out of business

I sure hope not! At least I hope some who worked at Apple might be able to spark some new companies in the future... like WebTV, Radius etc etc. But all these things can go right if and only if when home prices come down and headcount expenses are more manageable and the state becomes more business friendly.

dunnross says

If Apple goes out of business

Are we talking about Apple, the company that has 80Billion or what cash in the bank?

Samsung Galaxy an iphone killer? L O L

So far every company tries to copy Apple stuff and fails miserably.

You guys are nuts!

dunnross says

If Apple goes out of business, silicon valley used shack prices should approach those of Detroit

And if Martians come and buy up ALL the real estate, house prices will SOAR!

Godfather of SV tells the young turk at facebook..
"get out of california"

Of the course the journalist who flame the hype seem shocked!

http://pressheretv.com/?p=2710

SubOink says

Are we talking about Apple, the company that has 80Billion or what cash in the bank?

No.. they only have $3B "IN CASH// IN BANK" see page 55 of 10K.

the rest they SPENT on investment securities.. including US Govt bonds and Munis...

Cash    $ 2,903

Level 1:   
Money market funds    1,911
Mutual funds    1,227
  
Subtotal    3,138
  

Level 2:   
U.S. Treasury securities    10,717
U.S. agency securities    13,467
Non-U.S. government securities    5,559
Certificates of deposit and time deposits    4,175
Commercial paper    2,853
Corporate securities    35,241
Municipal securities    3,411
  
Subtotal    75,423
Total    $ 81,464
  

thomas.wong1986 says

Non-U.S. government securities    5,559

a good chunk of this is US Govt backed Mortgage Backed Securities.

SubOink says

So far every company tries to copy Apple stuff and fails miserably.

whats there to copy ? Apple uses billions of dollars of Samsung parts !

Today, Apple is shopping for Japanese parts from Sharp.

Apple’s Purchases From Samsung Will Increase To $ 11 Billion

According to reports from foreign media, although Apple may reduce the dependence on supply of parts by Samsung parts, but this year Apple’s parts orders for Samsung may reach the largest over the years.A top executive from Samsung said that the amount of orders from Apple may rise to $ 11 billion in 2012 from $ 7.8 billion in 2011

thomas.wong1986 says

whats there to copy ? Apple uses billions of dollars of Samsung parts !

How the parts are put together, the ID and the software make the difference. That's where Apple's value is, and that's what other companies have a hard time copying. If I sourced all the same parts as is in an iPhone and put them in a plastic bag, how much would you pay for it?

BMW and Tata motors both use steel, aluminum and rubber to make their cars. Very different outcomes, however.

-s

thomas.wong1986 says

the rest they SPENT on investment securities.. including US Govt bonds and Munis...

obviously, you don't have physical cash in the bank in that size...come on now.

thomas.wong1986 says

whats there to copy ?

Seriously?

2 pizza's - both use the exact same ingredients, one tastes like $hit and one tastes amazing...get it?

please dear fate let this be the first domino that finally brings down the illusionary farce that is the silicon valley. BTW, both me and my significant others jobs depend on others discretionary income, which has been sucked dry from the local populace thanks to the housing and education bubble. Having all these farce companies and their morons F off would increase our income.

Real companies like Nvidia, AMD, Intel and Apple have been here for decades now and have long sent their booms to other cities, so you cannot blame real contributors like that for debacles like Cupertino.

Not the whole truth but goddamn, its just like Wall street that for every billionaire, there are millions with their pockets sucked dry due to substandard pay or ridiculous living cost.

I don't like Facebook, and I am a confirmed Apple fanboy and do not predict Apple's demise in my lifetime. The opposite is true.

swebb says

How the parts are put together, the ID and the software make the difference. That's where Apple's value is, and that's what other companies have a hard time copying. If I sourced all the same parts as is in an iPhone and put them in a plastic bag, how much would you pay for it?

Apple doesnt put the parts together.. Asus does it for them. Design ?
Heck ! I would buy a flashy case too.. the rest anyone can put together a PC parts from Fry's...

Where was this bullshit when they lost market share and on the brink of bankruptcy in early 90s. I wasnt born yesterday.. been here for a long time.

Facebook and apple are overvalued. Facebook is worth about 10B if they get their business case in order and Apple has at most 2-3 years left of the cash cow they created with Jobs. After that, I wouldn't care to guess the state of Apple. Good luck to all investors. Better put a stop loss order in both these stocks if you are smart. Dividend stocks are the only things that makes sense in this environment. Go to Tahoe for gambling.

thomas.wong1986 says

Where was this bullshit when they lost market share and on the brink of bankruptcy in early 90s. I wasnt born yesterday.. been here for a long time.

Then you must be well aware that they are a long way from the company they were back in the 90s.

Apple might have money...now but consider these

Once we get up to Iphone 10 or over what exactly is the point? Gains are marginal and meaningless. While it is true that software usually can only go so far commercials are showing Siri which is software..not hardware.

Android is going to be pretty interesting in a few years. It is based on Linux and Linus Torvalous basically said that he predicts that Android and some Linux distros will eventually merge.

If your Android phone looks like an Iphone then it might make sense for a distro to look like mac os (already has google mac4lin). Then the linux home users will be much more relevant. Once you can sync devices well that's it.

Apple or any other company cannot compete with a competitor that is free.Google is also wanting to get in so if you search something and get notified about android and a free way to try a linux distro well apple has limited time left.

The apple bubble under Jobs was nice but it is ending. The consumer does have a choice and they don't have to give up that "no virus" feeling. The majority of apple products are not made specifically for apple. Frog design designed the imac long ago and other companies make each individual part of apple's products. To be fair this goes for nearly everyone. Maybe apple would like to buy a OEM doen the line but the comes with some risk.

Facebook and Lottery have one thing in common.
It creates thousands millionaires.

What is the problem here?

Bigsby says

Then you must be well aware that they are a long way from the company they were back in the 90s.

They tried to be different from others back then as they try today. They have of course a much better OS than most.. but thats just evolution.

As for Iphone and Ipad.. ah.. consumer toys.

xenogear3 says

Facebook and Lottery have one thing in common.
It creates thousands millionaires.

What is the problem here?

The problem is valuations of their stock.

But why bother buying their stock if all your doing is making someone else rich... might as well walk over to their HQ and write out $1000 checks to the 100 or so employees as they go to work..

Its your savings... just throw it at them...
Step up xenogear.. you can be the first one...

mdovell says

The apple bubble under Jobs was nice but it is ending.

It's hard to call Apple a "bubble" when their stock is trading at a multiple of 14. That's lower than that of Mcdonald's, for pete's sake.

That said, it's true that consumers are a fickle lot. I am amazed at the fierce loyalty to the Apple brand. Hey, they don't call it the "cult of Apple" for nothing. It's hard to say how long the "mojo" will last. I don't own AAPL because I don't understand it.

xenogear3 says

Facebook and Lottery have one thing in common.
It creates thousands millionaires.

Facebook creates millionaires? True, if you were SHORT with lots of leverage.

wthrfrk80 says

mdovell says

The apple bubble under Jobs was nice but it is ending.

It's hard to call Apple a "bubble" when their stock is trading at a multiple of 14. That's lower than that of Mcdonald's, for pete's sake.

That said, it's true that consumers are a fickle lot. I am amazed at the fierce loyalty to the Apple brand. Hey, they don't call it the "cult of Apple" for nothing. It's hard to say how long the "mojo" will last. I don't own AAPL because I don't understand it.

If you repatriate all the overseas earnings then we don't have a multiple of 14. More like 18. Remember, though, this multiple is not static. It can move quicker than you can blink an eye. The first quarter where Apple starts showing that the growth is abating will signal the beginning of the end. Apple will remain a great company, but it will never see a Trillion dollar market cap like many people are screaming. Microsoft couldn't do it, Cisco failed miserably, and Apple will have its place in the Museum of "It is different this time round". Like I said, add that stop loss or you will be sorry.

wthrfrk80 says

I don't own AAPL because I don't understand it.

If you were a pro-computer user for the last 15 years and were there from the beginning then you would understand it very easily.

I am still shocked that people put up with PC's aka Windows. It's pathetic.

SubOink says

I am still shocked that people put up with PC's aka Windows. It's pathetic.

MS generally sucks, yes. But I must say I'm pleased with Windoze7 on my home PC.

Businesses put up with Windoze because of high "switching costs." It would be a huge hassle to switch over to Apple. It's a big enough hassle just to upgrade to the latest MS Office version.

SubOink says

If you were a pro-computer user for the last 15 years and were there from the beginning then you would understand it very easily.

I am still shocked that people put up with PC's aka Windows. It's pathetic.

LOL now you are just being silly. "Pathetic" is judging someone by the OS that they use lol. Windows and Mac users always spout this nonsense out about how the other OS is user-unfriendly or inhibits control too much. Frankly, I have never had a productivity issue on either one. Web browsing and light "soccer mom" usage can be accomplished on either with equal ease. When it comes down to real business / engineering computing, Windows wins hands-down simply because of software availability. Try running Pro/E in a VM...it sucks.

It USED to be true that video & photo editing was way better in the Mac OS because it had better software, but that is no longer the case since everything is available for both platforms. Anyway, I don't get the issues that Mac folks always say that Windows has. On Win7 I have not had a single blue screen crash since i switched ~3 years ago. Not a single virus, and I do not even HAVE anti-virus installed. The machine will still go from a cold boot to browsing in Chrome in 43 seconds (including the time to type in my password), and it is a Thinkpad from 2007. Yeah, most people are not as anal retentive about system maintenance as I am, but I spend maybe 10 minutes a month doing it. The people that have incessant virus & crash problems are people that have no idea what they are doing and download pirated content from sketchy sites without thinking about it.

Similarly, Windows users always complain that OSX doesn't allow you to control it enough. Well, it does, you just need to know where to look & how to use the terminal. OSX does have a smoother feel to it, and is more stylistically pleasing than Windows. I am not sure how people equate that to "more productive," but to each their own.

The OS I have had issues with is Linux, actually. It has proven unreliable each time that I tried to switch to it. I have tried a few times since I DO like the feel of it (when it is working). Driver support for older machines sucks, particularly in the graphics department, which is a total deal breaker. Yeah, I could write my own driver...uhhhh, no thanks.

SubOink says

You guys are nuts!

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=AAPL&t=my&q=l&l=on&z=l&a=v&p=s&lang=en-US&region=US

SubOink says

wthrfrk80 says

I don't own AAPL because I don't understand it.

If you were a pro-computer user for the last 15 years and were there from the beginning then you would understand it very easily.

I am still shocked that people put up with PC's aka Windows. It's pathetic.

Its more pathetic to pay 2x the price for something with equal performance just so you can feel better about yourself and be associated with a particular brand.

Usability wise.. Windows have close the gap. I'm ambivalent on either companies since they both have questionable business tactics.

yes. Apple products in general have a slicker feel, but I'm not paying 2x for something that is still made in China. Itunes still sucks ballz

Meh. I've been a unix/linux admin since 95 and I don't really use it on the desktop anymore; though I still mange a couple hundred on the server side (all in run level 3 btw).

I still don't see it as really viable on the desktop in a business environment (for small companies and for certain functions, sure). For home use? Depends on what you use the machine for. Browsing, mail, music, photos, sure, it works great. Regardless, linux has come a LONG ways since Yggdrasil plug in play Linux.

The Windows/OSX debate is not really useful. Windows has vastly more commercial and open source software written for it. Windows 7 and Windows 2008 both work quite well and are quite stable. Large Microsoft environments certainly have their challenges but it's much better than it used to be. OSX doesn't have this issue since their are no large deployments of OSX (nobody uses OSX en mass in a business environment, except for the IT guys, graphic designers, the CEO and the other wannabe execs that don't know shit to begin with). The server side market for OSX is non-existent.

Apple itself is mixed environment BTW (Linux, Windows and OSX).

bmwman91 says

LOL now you are just being silly. "Pathetic" is judging someone by the OS that they use lol. Windows and Mac users always spout this nonsense out about how the other OS is user-unfriendly or inhibits control too much. Frankly, I have never had a productivity issue on either one. Web browsing and light "soccer mom" usage can be accomplished on either with equal ease. When it comes down to real business / engineering computing, Windows wins hands-down simply because of software availability. Try running Pro/E in a VM...it sucks.

it's about using the right tool(ie OS) for the job.

linux sucks as a desktop. can't be beat as a server or software development environment.
windows is best in a business environment because of its ubiquity.
os-x is awesome for personal/home use.

to say any one OS is "the best"; is kind of like saying the hammer is the best without saying what job it's best for.

I work entirely on Linux, since I have my laptop set up just like the Patrick.net server. I test everything locally and then push it to the server and know for sure that it will run. Linux is really great for web development that way.

CrazyMan says

Regardless, linux has come a LONG ways since Yggdrasil plug in play Linux.

Ubuntu+Fedora works for me.

Hysteresis says

to say any one OS is "the best"; is kind of like saying the hammer is the best without saying what job it's best for.

Very true.

I keep forgetting that a lot of people on here are web & software developers. Certainly, your needs are pretty different than mine as a MechE. There definitely is no "one size fits all" OS out there.