patrick.net

It should be obvious that man needs no protection from himself. If you just leave men to their own devices, they will take care of their bodies, their planet and each other. No way will they ever do harm to others in the interest of providing for themselves and their families. That's just not part of human nature. And with 7 billion people on the planet, all looking out for the best interest of the environment, it's pretty fucked up to think that the government need to involve itself in that. The government can only get in the way.

That's why all ideologies based on the idea that "humans are basically good" are doomed to fail. Often with body counts.

thomas.wong1986 says

The RED paint on the Golden Gate Bridge, like many other bridges, is lead based.. but we do scrape it off and it falls into the bay... yep lots of toxic lead floating in the Bay!

That's almost poetic.

Here's an example of the greeny fags lobbying for something that nobody should bother with. As if getting away from lead bullets is a worthwhile cause.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/get_the_lead_out/index.html

jjmcdonald says

Title insurance is the worst, Fire is pretty bad as you state, Life insurance is also not good. Car and Medical are actually among the best, if you define best as dollars in vs. dollars out on claims. It has been my experience that an insurance industry is better when the claim frequency is higher and for less money vs. when the claims are large and rare. In fact, with title insurance it seems you are doing nothing more than hiring lawyers to oppose you with your insurance.

I've never had a problem with medical insurance not paying up.

From your comments I am assuming that you have never had medical expenses that amounted to much.

Yes, I have had no problem with medical insurance when the claims have been small and "normal". However, that is not what I need medical insurance for. Believe it or not some people do end up with large medical bills and it is not all that rare. When faced with a large bill medical insurance companies have been the worst I have ever dealt with. Probably the worst thing (of many constant hassles) that they did to me was when I had two kids in the hospital they twice, without one word to me, scheduled their insurance for cancellation. The only way I knew that my kids insurance was scheduled for cancellation was because the hospital found out a couple days before the cancellation was due to be in effect and the hospital informed me. Apparently there was some form that needed to be filed in order for the kids insurance to remain active (I guess kind of like the button in Lost that needed be pressed or the world would blow up). Also, one of the times they "lost" the form that I had sent in. I was only aware of this because I did a followup call the next day. I had to fill it out and fax it in or my kids insurance would have been canceled the next day. I did keep them on the phone while I faxed it in to make sure that they got it.

Another thing that many people don't realize is that our current medical system is in no way, shape, or form a "free market".

some people want a nanny state, some dont.
some people want to take money from the person who earned it and hand it over to the person they deem worthy, some don't.

marcus, how much simpler can I say that I disagree? I guess I missed your point.

BAp, I don't see the world as either or. IT's as if you think the world is either a bs fantasy version of liberal policy (THERE ARE ALMOST ZERO LIBERALS IN CONRESS). Or it's the righteous version of yours that is also fantasy.

Everything is so fucking polarized that it's not even possibly to talk about solutions. The real policies that matter, the ones that the government needs to address soon, don't pertain to abortion, or guns, or gays.

THey are first and foremost about taxes.

You've heard my argument 10 times, and possibly even comprehended it. We should pay our bills. Then and only then will we ever get spending under control.

Unfortunately, the borrow and spend republicans have already taken us to the brink.

Bap33 says

some people want a nanny state, some dont.
some people want to take money from the person who earned it and hand it over to the person they deem worthy, some don't.

So there's only two choices. All or nothing. Outright communism or the gilded age ?

I'll talk to you after the election Bap, otherwise, I'm just going to want to tell you how clueless you are.

Ok, longwinded and overly dramatic finish from me: I give up. Its been days and no "conservative" on this site has had the courage to directly accept or defend the issue of CO Springs, hell i think not one of them has actually even dared mentioned the name of the town in any of thier posts.

Of the usual gang only bap & thomas wong have dared to answer... but Bap has been talking around and around in circles on things that DO NOT MATTER to the core question, and thomas made a brief stab at talking about... something?... Lead paint on a bridge?... But other than that, nothing. Here was your chance to sing, boys, but nothing. Gutless wonders. Paper tigers.

One person made a nice attempt though again it was aimed at a broader philosophical point, but as usual it's all been either complete silence or distractions and endless prevaricating & dithering about the hypothetical "causes" of this or that and of course the blame for simply everything is heaped completely on the "greens" and "libs"... The intention in this context I suppose being to insinuate that the "greens" and "libs" are somehow even responsible for the results of this latest disaterous example of the results of the conservative policies.

I think it's because deep down, behind all the righteous indignation you guys KNOW that these policies are actually worthless, based on personal greed, that they sound nice on a personal level but have no place in a broader society, and are disasterous, as has been shown again by CO Springs.

Disaster response is a form of "national defense" I think. I don't see why some conservatives seem to oppose it.

Mabye because disaster response doesn't benefit defense contractors or secure foreign resources for our corporations.

And god forbid we help black people recover from a disaster.

marcus says

We should pay our bills

FIRST we need to close the border and send home invaders and their spawn - to save money.
THEN we should make less bills that are from any form of welfare - to save money
THEN ask me about taking more from workers in the form of tax - to raise money. I may agree.

I am for a flat tax though, not this screw-the-wealthy tax system we have been using. It is wrong.

despite what kent keeps hoping, the cancer of liberalism is behind most every disaster in America.

one more thing, there are very few conservatives who bother posting on here any more. Almost none. Leaving the voice up to me is laughable. But, only an idiot would equate what goes on here to anything out in the real world.

Bap33 says

FIRST we need to close the border and send home invaders and their spawn - to save money.

Maybe we should throw the employers hiring the illegals to boost their profits at the expense of us workers in jail and take their assets as ill gotten gains. No one would employ illegals then. If there are no jobs for illegals and they will go home themselves. Then we don't have to spend trillions setting up our own berlin wall and we can add trillions in fines/seizures of assets from the exploiters to the budget to pay off the debt. Simple practical solution.

Funny how the right wingnuts leaders (beck/rush/etc.) who are up to their eyeballs in corporate cash never suggest this approach to their sheeple followers.

Would you be in favor of this Bap or do you only believe what you are told by the fat blimp?

I think Limbaugh's motto is something like: "don't try to fix stupidity...profit from it!"

Bap33 says

there are very few conservatives who bother posting on here any more.

A lot of the posters here are moderate conservatives. You know the ones who would have voted republican 30 or 40 years ago (when the GOP actually stood for traditional conservative ideals) and acknowledge the fact that Regan was more liberal than Obama is.

It is just that you have allowed the Mormon news media and Rupert Murdoch's news corp. to convince you that to be a true conservative one must:

-believe the absurd lies of the Mormon/NewsCorp propaganda machine;

-hate (or at least dehumanize and marginalize) their countrymen who are non-"conservatives";

-prefer the destruction of America to allowing a non-approved candidate do anything that might put a win in their column (even when it was idea first put forward by the Mormon/NewsCorp cabal);

-and of course put the preservation of the aristocracy's position above all else, even if it requires destroying the "American Dream" in the process and plunging the "land of the free and the home of the brave" into a hellish police state where the majority of the population lives a 3rd world impoverished existance.

Bap33 says

some people want to take money from the person who earned it and hand it over to the person they deem worthy, some don't.

Are you suggesting that red states stop taking money from the blue states.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/thread799791/pg1

Oh, that's right, conservatives are hypocrites.

bob, ofcourse I agree. ENforcement should be an automatic thing, not a political football.

leo,
you're wrong. But, every once in a while you are REALLY wrong - like now. There is no such thing as "moderate conservative". That's a liberal pipe-dream.

evilmonkey,
I do not agree with wealth transfers.
Oh, that's right, leftist / progressive / socialist / communist / muslamic / obamanite liberals are hypocrites.

leoj707 says

It is just that you have allowed the Mormon news media

Mormon news media?

Are you talking about those "...and I'm a Mormon" commercials?

kentm says

I think it's because deep down, behind all the righteous indignation you guys KNOW that these policies are actually worthless, based on personal greed, that they sound nice on a personal level but have no place in a broader society, and are disasterous, as has been shown again by CO Springs.

Your living in a dreamland, cities have run out of money

.

Mayor cuts city workers’ pay to $7.25 per hour

http://www.sooeveningnews.com/newsnow/x1990296591/Mayor-cuts-city-workers-pay-to-7-25-per-hour

A fiscal and political crisis in the nearly-broke northeastern Pennsylvania city of Scranton deepened Tuesday as public employee unions sought to have the mayor held in contempt of court after he defied a judge and slashed workers’ pay to minimum wage.

Unions representing firefighters, police and public-works employees also filed a pair of federal lawsuits against Mayor Chris Doherty and the city that alleged violations of labor law and due-process rights.

Doherty last week ignored a court order and cut the pay of about 400 city workers to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. The Democratic mayor said it was all the cash-strapped city of more than 76,000 could afford, promising to restore full pay once finances are stabilized.

“It’s incredible,” the unions’ attorney, Thomas Jennings, said Tuesday. “I’ve never had a public official just say, ‘I’m not going to obey a court order. I’m not even going to try. He can’t tell me what to do.’”

Doherty is locked in a dispute with Scranton’s city council over a financial recovery plan as it faces a $16.8 million budget deficit. The mayor didn’t return a phone message from The Associated Press on Tuesday, but he told the Times-Tribune of Scranton on Monday that his administration and the council remained at stalemate over the $85 million budget.

“If I had the money, I’d pay them,” Doherty said of city workers.

evilmonkeyboy says

Are you suggesting that red states stop taking money from the blue states.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/thread799791/pg1

Oh, that's right, conservatives are hypocrites.

There are no "red states" or "blue states", just "red counties" (rural), "purple counties" (suburban), and "blue counties" (urban). The "blue states" just have more cities than the "red states."

Obviously rural areas are going to see a huge ratio of road spending relative to taxpayers. But natural resources have to get to the cities somehow. We could go back to private railroad companies having a stranglehold on transport if you'd like.

If you're trying to refute far-right complaints about "welfare queens" use data on social spending specifically.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that there ARE a lot of rural "deadbeats," but just looking at raw federal spending doesn't prove much. And how many of those rural deadbeats actually vote? It could be that rural conservatives don't like their rural deadbeat neighbors anymore than they like the deadbeats living in the cities.

wthrfrk80 says

Mormon news media?

The Blaze.

It is Glen Becks' "news" outlet that Bap subscribes to.

Ah ok. I knew Glenn Beck was Mormon, but I did not know he had his own propaganda...er...news outlet.

Bap33 says

There is no such thing as "moderate conservative".

Thanks Bap I forgot that one for the list.

-No true scots... *er* ... conservative would hold any political position that would be considered "moderate" by the Mormon/NewsCorp propaganda machine.

Bap33 went on my "ignore extremist noise" list a long time ago.

wthrfrk80 says

Ah ok. I knew Glenn Beck was Mormon, but I did not know he had his own propaganda...er...news outlet.

Yes, Bap was on here not too long ago touting Becks' virtues and talking about how great The Blaze is and trying to get others to get subscriptions to GBTV.

leo,
you know you fibbed. but, you also know that nobody cares. it's all good.

Bap33 says

leo,

you know you fibbed. but, you also know that nobody cares. it's all good.

Fibbed about what?

leoj707 says

wthrfrk80 says

Ah ok. I knew Glenn Beck was Mormon, but I did not know he had his own propaganda...er...news outlet.

Yes, Bap was on here not too long ago touting Becks' virtues and talking about how great The Blaze is and trying to get others to get subscriptions to GBTV.

just go re-read the post you are talking about. so libtastic of you. lol

Hey Bap,

This does not ring a bell?

Bap33 says

you may wanna subscribe to GBTV and ready yourself to find anything false in what Beck is trying to get people to hear. Beck is 100% right. You are a very smart person, go read The Blaze or spend a few bucks and get GBTV. If there is something not correct I would trust you to share it.

Was I misreading something there? It read to me like you were touting virtues and trying to get people to subscribe.

Glenn Beck is a nutjob. Rush Limbaugh is pretty normal by comparison. Rush might be a dick, but at least he's generally not crazy.

Republicans can't back up their arguments.

And yet, they want to keep their services and cut yours.

They are selfish, dishonest and most are incapable of honest argument.
They'll usually bring up a different topic .

Now, there are many republican women out there ready and willing to throw the younger women on the bonfire of conservatism. Touting their greed of lower taxes with no choice. No birth control.

Greed, selfishness and dishonesty. I think that covers it.

Leecal2 says

Now, there are many republican women out there ready and willing to throw the younger women on the bonfire of conservatism. Touting their greed of lower taxes with no choice. No birth control.

Are there any politicians trying to make birth control illegal? That sounds like a far-left talking point.

wthrfrk80 says

Leecal2 says

Now, there are many republican women out there ready and willing to throw the younger women on the bonfire of conservatism. Touting their greed of lower taxes with no choice. No birth control.

Are there any politicians trying to make birth control illegal? That sounds like a far-left talking point.

As far as I know, explicitly outlawing birth control is a fringe position. However, the line between birth control and abortion isn't so clear if you believe that personhood starts the nanosecond the sperm and ovum make contact. Some anti-abortion legislation probably would effectively outlaw some forms of [what most people would call] birth control:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2011/11/mississippi_personhood_for_embryos_will_it_outlaw_birth_control_.html

leo, it was free to get the story detail that was part of that discussion at that time and Beck had opened up the pay-for site so everyone could get the info ... all of this you know, as I shared it, and you admitted to not even reading anything on the news site Beck runs. Yet, you know it's all bad poopoo. I think that is how a silly lib would behave.

At any rate, Beck's news outlet is a good source, until you show me otherwise. Meanwhile, have you seen the pics of Trevon at 17 years old? lmao. You guys were duped.

Bap33 says

Meanwhile, have you seen the pics of Trevon at 17 years old? lmao. You guys were duped.

? Us guys ? duped ?

So, I guess Zimmerman's using the donations for his defense to pay of old credit card debt and clearly trying to manipulate the court through lies still has not shaken your faith in him, eh?

Bap33 says

leo, it was free to get the story detail that was part of that discussion at that time and Beck had opened up the pay-for site so everyone could get the info ... all of this you know, as I shared it, and you admitted to not even reading anything on the news site Beck runs.

Um, I am not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you claiming that you did not suggest that others get a subscription to GBTV?

Yes, you did mention something about a free trial to his site, but you did say this about GBTV.

Bap33 says

you may wanna subscribe to GBTV

Bap33 says

spend a few bucks and get GBTV

Bap33 says

his pay-site, GBTV has stuff he said.

Given your difficulty with remembering what you have said in the past I understand that you would not remember that I did in-fact post that I had read the Blaze.

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

#2) I figured a time frame that was not under the Fox News situation, that is the only reason I placed a time on the suggestion.

Has is message changed after leaving FOX? From what I have read on theBlaze it does not seem to have changed. Why would you think that his rampant dishonest claims would have changed? Did he suddenly come up with honest well reasoned arguments to support his outrageous claims? Some how I doubt it and quite frankly it is not worth my time to sift through all his garbage and do the research on his claims.

Bap33 says

At any rate, Beck's news outlet is a good source, until you show me otherwise.

Well, you are free to absorb propaganda from someone who adheres to scripture that calls you a corrupt abomination. Don't worry I am sure that does not affect the content of Beck's message at all.

As you probably don't remember from the previous thread, you failed to convince anyone that Beck had suddenly turned over a new leaf and left all his deception and lies back at Fox. No one including myself thought it was worthwhile to fact check his new mormon propaganda outlet. Yes, some people might be fooled by a con-man who changes hats and puts on a fake mustache, but to most he is still a liar and a scumbag.

what is it you say Beck is wrong about again?
what story does The Blaze have wrong?
leoj707 says

Bap33 says

Meanwhile, have you seen the pics of Trevon at 17 years old? lmao. You guys were duped.

? Us guys ? duped ?

So, I guess Zimmerman's using the donations for his defense to pay of old credit card debt and clearly trying to manipulate the court through lies still has not shaken your faith in him, eh?

he should not be in court, he broke no law. Spike Lee should be in court for attempted murder, terrorist threats, ect ect.

p.s., it is true, I did not recall that you claimed to read something in the past. My error.

leo,
rabid liberals do not like Beck. I heard ya the first time.

But Scranton is where Dunder Mifflin is, right?

Hi Bap!