patrick.net

Union mentality is disgusting. Like cattle they roam together harassing others and destroying legitimate business.

When unions were created, people were living in shanties in squallier, and worked in gruesome conditions. Now Unions work hard to get people laid off or fired, from their cush jobs, and have to move from their comfortable homes. To food stamps and Section 8 housing and back to a life squallier.

Kind of like Democrats, when they won the Civil rights fight, they had nothing to keep them relevant. So they became obtrusive and a detriment to democracy because there was nothing of substance to fight for.

Surprise Surprise... another mention of "Union Thugs". Do me a favor: please notify me when something that's actually original is posted.

Translation: I don't agree with right wing propaganda and neither does the majority of Americans either.

Andrew has risen! Him and Reagan are are on a do-good mission to rid the world of all things not right wing! One is foaming at the mouth, and the other is slobbering, but they will not be silenced.

Does Union dragoons work better for you?

How about Union workers?

Can't stand LA airport. I remember when it was reasonably nice in the day. I went through on stopovers a couple of times a few years ago, they let every ghetto rat go around mugging people in the terminals for money for "charity." You would get "guilted" every five minutes. I couldn't believe it.

Now, a lot of flights have smaller terminals that you are driven to, avoid the main seedy scene.

Breitbart may be dead-but looks like his legacy of half truths and obfusication lives on. There is no strike or walkout and airport service is not being affected.

They are merely engaging in their first amendment rights-you know the right to gather in public to march,to protest, demonstrate, carry signs and otherwise express their views in a nonviolent way. Or only republicans are protected by the constitution?? Sigh.

edvard2 says

How about Union workers?

Yeah, but we like to strive for truth, so thugs it is.

Melmakian says

That would imply that they 'work', as a rule.

(You walked right into that one, dude. Blame yourself.)

Like I said before: If it weren't for what unions did , none of us would have hardly any of the rights and working environments we now take for granted. The mindless blaming of unions for everything is nothing more than right wing propaganda. That is all.

Sounds like in Greece, the future of US.

Ah yes- the mention of Greece was also a popular catch-phrase in the Romney campaign. And he lost.

Union mentality is disgusting. Like cattle they roam together harassing others and destroying legitimate business.

That "union mentality" pretty much made America a great country. Yes there are bad unions or unions that overreach, but cmon, some perspective is in order here.
It's funny, but when a corporation does something awful, people don't say all corporations are bad. Unions have been excessively demonized and continue to be by brainless parrots like zzyzzx who do the dirty work of greedy assholes.

rooemoore says

Unions have been excessively demonized and continue to be by brainless parrots like zzyzzx

Please, no direct insults.

Unions will always be necessary because of cultish terrorists sam walton thugs!

dublin hillz says

Unions will always be necessary because of cultish terrorists sam walton thugs!

Comparing thugs to Sam Walton is an insult to thugs.

FortWayne says

Union mentality is disgusting. Like cattle they roam together harassing others and destroying legitimate business.

Here's something that destroys legitimate businesses wherever it goes:

Walmart

http://boldprogressives.org/leading-conservatives-pledge-to-shop-at-wal-mart-where-most-goods-are-made-in-communist-china/

"One has to wonder how supporting a corporation that gets much of its goods from a country where people are oppressed by a totalitarian government is in any way supporting freedom"

And this:

http://robertreich.org/post/36219730368

Why You Shouldn’t Shop at Walmart on Friday

"A half century ago America’s largest private-sector employer was General Motors, whose full-time workers earned an average hourly wage of around $50, in today’s dollars, including health and pension benefits.

Today, America’s largest employer is Walmart, whose average employee earns $8.81 an hour. A third of Walmart’s employees work less than 28 hours per week and don’t qualify for benefits.

There are many reasons for the difference – including globalization and technological changes that have shrunk employment in American manufacturing while enlarging it in sectors involving personal services, such as retail.

But one reason, closely related to this seismic shift, is the decline of labor unions in the United States. In the 1950s, over a third of private-sector workers belonged to a union. Today fewer than 7 percent do. As a result, the typical American worker no longer has the bargaining clout to get a sizeable share of corporate profits. "

I can't help but wonder what the "conservatives" think they're doing by hating on and breaking unions, other than enabling corporations to break the ability of common American folks to earn decent living wages...

Is that your intention 'conservatives', to break your country so that the trans national corporations can make a bit more money? I thought you guys LOVED America? Why are you pushing so hard to destroy it?

kentm says

I thought you guys LOVED America? Why are you pushing so hard to destroy it?

Start with the premise that the "conservatives" are hypocrites on everything and things become a lot more clear.

Yeah, rhetorical question... I don't know why I keep asking them...

kentm says

I can't help but wonder what the "conservatives" think they're doing by hating on and breaking unions, other than enabling corporations to break the ability of common American folks to earn decent living wages...

I hope that in the absence of unions, companies will be less likely to move jobs overseas. Nothing seems to push jobs out of the us quicker than unions.

kentm says

Why You Shouldn’t Shop at Walmart on Friday

You really shouldn't shop anywhere on Friday. I don't even want to drive past any stores.

But are you against unions in retail or at the LAX? There's no chance of those jobs going overseas so this particular issue is all about living wages and standards here.

So then you WOULD support unions within Walmart, correct? Or for transit employees, or for resource companies such as lumber and mining, as it'll mean the people working there will be able to better earn living wages that will support their families and lives and continue to support the local economies of their neighborhoods and country?

kentm says

But are you against unions in retail

No.

kentm says

or at the LAX?

Yes.

And why not in the transportation industry?

Unions are one method, without resorting to regulation, to keep money flowing within local economies - it's been shown that "trickle down" is BS. It's the way to ensure that corporations are more than simple money extraction machines, bleeding local economies.

kentm says

And why not in the transportation industry?

The union thugs blocking the airport are public employees.

The retail employees are private. If I don't like that, or anything else about the store, I can shop elsewhere. With the public employees, the only choice I seem to have is to pay higher taxes to support their bloated pension and benefit packages.

I'm ok with not having public-sector unions, but I feel that most people who make the same claim really just hate unions in general. They've bought into the republican lie that unions are the reason why American companies can't compete, instead of placing the blame on globalization where it belongs.

These people who claim to want to keep jobs in america truly mean that -- they just believe that those jobs should pay about 50 cents an hour and provide no benefits.

Of course, at least in China there's a public health care system.

Kevin says

These people who claim to want to keep jobs in america truly mean that -- they just believe that those jobs should pay about 50 cents an hour and provide no benefits.

That's not true. Plenty of times when made in USA stuff was still in the stores you would see competing made in China stuff at the same price. Which to me implies that someone is making a huge profit off the imported stuff instead of passing along the savings. Since that is generally the case, I would think that it should be easy enough to make stuff here without raising pricing much at current us wages.

Right now I am looking to buy some tires, and it's really not much of a price difference to get something domestic either.

zzyzzx says

kentm says

And why not in the transportation industry?

The union thugs blocking the airport are public employees.

The retail employees are private. If I don't like that, or anything else about the store, I can shop elsewhere. With the public employees, the only choice I seem to have is to pay higher taxes to support their bloated pension and benefit packages.

So it all basically comes down to personal convenience for you. I see.

rooemoore says

It's funny, but when a corporation does something awful, people don't say all corporations are bad. Unions have been excessively demonized and continue to be by brainless parrots like zzyzzx who do the dirty work of greedy assholes.

That sums it up pretty well.

I would say a lot of us are just extremely gullible. When you have an extremely gullible person who's also not real bright, and living in this country, then there's a good chance they will be a fundamentalist Christion, or a "parrot" as you say, of right wing emotion sold to them by the right wing entertainment complex.

"Why should that cop get to retire with a pension, after working hard in a service job for 35 years, for relatively low take home pay, when I'm middle aged and haven't saved hardly anything for retirement ? "

"I want everyone in America to feel just as fucked over as I do, or more so, because I'm proud to be an American. We're such intelligent and loving people."

marcus says

"Why should that cop get to retire with a pension, after working hard in a service job for 35 years, for relatively low take home pay

They don't make low pay though.
http://www.njsp.org/recruit/salary.html
The current starting salary for a trooper is $62,403.60 (including uniform allowance). The second-year total compensation significantly increases to $69,489.30. Top pay for a Trooper I is $108,847.13. Troopers receive yearly increments.

And that's with full benefits, including a defined benefit pension. Those figures do not include overtime, which can be substantial.

Union is a thing of the past. It is nothing more than labor collusion.

Outlaw unions! With at-will employment, workers already have the best protection possible: I QUIT!

Peter P says

With at-will employment, workers already have the best protection possible: I QUIT!

That's real logical (not).

For the simplicity of making the point, say you have a universe with a few owners/bosses and 100 potential workers. And the total number of jobs is 90. What's to keep the owner bosses from keeping pay too low, especially at the low end ?

(Not taking in to account the fact that the owners businesses depend on the workers having disposable income to spend at their businesses)

At least in relatively low skill jobs, as long as the ratio of workers to jobs is high enough, quitting doesn't give you leverage.

Even for some skilled jobs, if there are a sufficient number of people interested or willing to do the job, then quitting only serves to bring a less qualified replacement in.

Hey it's government service work right ? We like to argue that government can't do things well, right ? So what's the problem with making government work less well paid ? It's a win/win ?

Bring in the private sector, right ?

With respect to public education, and teachers, what "the owners" are trying to do to is pay teachers even less than they are now. Even though as it is now, a high percentage of teachers don't last more than 5 years.

This isn't rocket science. But I guess it is closer to being rocket science than the typical right wing union hater is to being a rocket scientist.

zzyzzx says

They don't make low pay though.

I can use google too. What, did you google "highest paying police jobs" ?

Of course state police jobs pay more too.

Here for a little more balance.

http://policelink.monster.com/benefits/articles/9998-best-and-worst-places-to-be-a-cop

The source is an industry site with no bias one way or the other. Oh,...I see big surprise. New Jersey is the highest.

marcus says

For the simplicity of making the point, say you have a universe with a few owners/bosses and 100 potential workers. And the total number of jobs is 90. What's to keep the owner bosses from keeping pay too low, especially at the low end ?

Easy. The workers can become the bosses.

I work at the port of LA, through which the majority of Chinese imports travel to get to US markets. Every job here, outside of management, is a union job. Unions hold jobs here to higher wages, good benefits, and safe working standards. This directly impacts shipping costs on a per container scale, adding maybe 30% to the cost of an item you buy at Walmart or target or anywhere hat sells Chinese goods. If this area was non union, wages would be halved, benefits would be sketchy, and the cost of goods could drop another 15% or more.
This would be a terrible thing for America. Right now, the high union wages amount to the only tariff paid by importers, the only reason the few American manufacturers left here can compete at all! It's also a big funnel of money into he surrounding community, making possible all manner of service industry (doctors included) jobs, and providing a vast market of people with money to buy product.
This has made for a strong economy.
Unions made it possible.
The rest of you can spend an extra couple of dollars on that throw pillow.

On the contrary, I believe in global single-market capitalism. If we remove all tariffs, everybody will become better off in the long run. Although China can sell to us, we can sell to them too.

Any trade barrier impedes the functioning of the market, and this will manifest itself as distortions somewhere else.

There really ought not be borders for people and goods.