patrick.net

Bigsby says

I take it you've got his full medical file in front of you.

No, I didn't listened to anything about this killer, I purposely stayed away from news yesterday, but it was the first thing I assumed about him.

People pay attention to guns which is an object but the bigger problem is that most of these shooters are on some kind of meds.

I'm not even sure that trying to find a medical condition really fast and explaining the act as a result of that condition is good either.

Society changed so much. Like 'Call It Crazy" pointed out, now we refuse to introduce a concept of evil.

One more thing about guns. If we further chip away our 2nd amendment because of school shootings, we make it easier for the future government to control us. We can easily fall into tyranny.
Gun ownership guarantee that when the government takes our liberties people can fight for them. So ideas about taking our guns away, putting policemen in schools for security only work for the government and against us, citizens.

gbenson says

As for those who think by keeping their guns they are going to fend off big government someday or revolt when Hillary wins.. Congratulations, you sir, are a an idiot! If government comes after you, an unmanned drone is just going to drop a bomb on your ass while your eating dinner. You won't even have anything to shoot at. Even if they use soldiers, it will be a team of special forces with flash bombs and full riot gear at 3AM. You'll be laying in the back of a van in handcuffs before you even realize what the fuck is going on.

Possession of guns by many people would only guarantee that they think twice before starting a war with their own citizens. A lot of other things have to happen before it comes to this. Don't make a caricature of the situation. Hillary would be the smallest thing in the chain of serious events.

Every military thinks they are going to pound an insurgency into the ground mostly with airpower. It seldom works out that way. All successful insurgencies are stopped with politics. Iraq was ended by bowing to the fact that Iraq was going to be far more confederate, far more Iranian friendly, and accepting of both former Baathists and Al-Sadr followers than we originally intended. Once we gave ground on those issues, the violence declined. The surge was mostly BS: the corner was turned when we gave the minor functionaries and members of the Baathist party jobs, and Al-Sadr a seat at the table, and gave up on the 30-year exile banksters as the new leadership of a united Iraq (Just, btw, as the original Iraq Occupation Plan called for, the one that was drafted long before 2003 but was dumped at the last minute by the WH).

Drones probably create more insurgents than they kill; losing several family members at a wedding to a drone is a 'radicalizing moment'.

http://theweek.com/article/index/237884/how-to-prevent-more-mass-killings

How to prevent more mass killings

The reality of the situation is that little is done about mental illness, until an incident like this occurs. The police only take action if a medicated person makes a verbal threat, with a looming officer nearby. Otherwise, it's really just a person on a cycle of pills, visiting a social counselor once or twice a month, and then voila ... you get a violent crime and then people sit around and wonder why it had occurred.

GraooGra says

If we further chip away our 2nd amendment because of school shootings, we make it easier for the future government to control us. We can easily fall into tyranny.

Gun ownership guarantee that when the government takes our liberties people can fight for them

I find it somewhat humorous that the gun nuts start ranting about how the government's going to kidnap them in their sleep and do something to them or walk into their house and do something to them (they're not sure what, but it's bad) or even control them when we start having these kind of discussions involving guns.

I wish I understood, in their mind, what the motivation is for the government to kidnap, turn on or even control its people.

and...

Since when did NOT having guns mean you can't revolt?
Since when did guns become a NECESSITY to revolt?
Whatever happened to "You can kill someone with something other than a gun"?

GraooGra says

Possession of guns by many people would only guarantee that they think twice before starting a war with their own citizens.

I highly doubt it. I think Lanza, Holmes, and others like them would've seen their shooting sprees as more of a challenge. So IMHO, it only would've upped the stakes.

I also think it's "preposterous" to boldly assert that a concealed handgun would have prevented this tragedy and others like it or that it would prevent future tragedies.

What could've conceivably happened is that someone with a gun in the school or theater could've started firing rounds and hit other people. Law enforcement officers make that mistake all too commonly. What would a citizen do amid all that smoke and chaos? IMHO, had someone carried a concealed handgun and had chose to use it, it only could've added to the mass chaos already being perpetrated and to the overall loss of life once it ceased. Average American citizens aren't trained to deal with situations like Newtown and Aurora, CO.

Autism is a scary disease. Those afflicted have a dissociation with society, applying across a range of degrees. Some are passive preferring to retreat to an inner world. Others are violent, striking family members who upset them (know someone with a 15 year old son like this).
In my town, a 45 year old autistic man was finally jailed after years of terrorizing his neighborhood with annoying acts of peeping, vandalism, and confrontation.

Autism has been increasing in prevalence up to about 1:300 now. That's a lot of potentially unstable kids out there. What happens when they all grow up?

A few theories on what causes autism are out there, from old dads to immunizations. I think that's mostly crap. Fire retardants are a far more likely candidate. Up until 2003 they were a mandatory part of any furniture or electronic device, carpet, etc in California. The most common of these was proven to cause neurological birth defects.
What do you think autism is? California women tested 300 times higher than anywhere else for this chemical.

Suburban Gal says

I find it somewhat humorous that the gun nuts start ranting about how the government's going to kidnap them in their sleep and do something to them or walk into their house and do something to them (they're not sure what, but it's bad) or even control them when we start having these kind of discussions involving guns.

Why do you think it was important for our Founding Fathers to put 2nd amendment and why in all totalitarian regimes guns are outlawed?
First thing they do is to confiscate weapons.

Suburban Gal says

I wish I understood, in their mind, what the motivation is for the government to kidnap, turn on or even control its people.

and..

Leftist government is very coercive by nature. You believe the government is the answer to all your problems, you make it bigger and even more coercive. You don't even see a boundary to the government's involvement right now. What makes you think they woudl stop one day, why would they?

GraooGra says

Why do you think it was important for our Founding Fathers to put 2nd amendment...

The Constitution was written 300+ years ago. We aren't the same American public we were 300+ years ago. The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when people needed guns to form well-regulated militias to protect them, as there were no such things as police departments or federal law enforcement agencies. We face many different problems than we did back then so, IMHO, the 2nd Amendment is outdated.

That said, I believe 2nd Amendment is obviously intended in the context of service in the Militia and wasn't intended to let every average citizen with a size complex to keep an armoury at home.

The U.S. has more gun violence than any other western country. This is something we should address because it's getting worse instead of better.

"Since when did NOT having guns mean you can't revolt?
Since when did guns become a NECESSITY to revolt?
Whatever happened to "You can kill someone with something other than a gun"?

You can always revolt. You can overthrow tyrant peacefully only in the situation when even his army is against him.

Suburban Gal says

The Constitution was written 300+ years ago. We aren't the same American public we were 300+ years ago. The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when people needed guns to form well-regulated militias to protect them, as there were no such things as police departments or federal law enforcement agencies. We face many different problems than we did back then so, IMHO, the 2nd Amendment is outdated.

It is not outdated. This is leftist propaganda. They would like to change it because it is not in sync with the Communist Manifesto. Don't be gullible.It protects your rights as an individual, against the government as well. What if they decide that 1st amendment is also outdated and they start limit my speech and yours?

Quigley says

Autism has been increasing in prevalence up to about 1:300 now. That's a lot of potentially unstable kids out there. What happens when they all grow up?

I don't think it is increasing. I think that people are more aware of it and there is more diagnosis done.

Yes.

Gun control laws need to change.

Victim disarmament laws like the Gun-Free School Zones must be repealed so that evil people aren't free to kill people, reload, kill more people, reload, and keep killing until they quit or the police finally show up.

While it's theoretically possible to disarm a population in practice it does not work. Jamaica banned handguns in 1974, used warrant-less searches to collect them, had secret trials, and imposed mandatory life sentences. After that their murder rate surged to 60 per 100,000.

The best we can do is allow potential victims (or responsible adults around them in the case of children) the means to fight back.

Peter P says

Is Autism even real?

It is neurological. You can see that these kids are odd.

Study the history of the second amendment and you'll find that the 2nd amendment was always interpreted as referring to "well regulated militia's" until the 1980's when the individual rights argument began to be pushed by NRA backed Republicans. Read about it here: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/04/the-second-amendment.html

Peter P says

GraooGra says

Peter P says

Is Autism even real?

It is neurological. You can see that these kids are odd.

There are so many "odd" kids. Or perhaps some are just different.

I only cannot understand why that mother kept guns when she knew that her son was not quite there? Why any mother with boys in the house would keep guns for that matter?

Peter P says

There are so many "odd" kids. Or perhaps some are just different.

This is a good point. In the US most of these kids are quickly labeled and medications are provided. It is easier to give a pill than to watch you child.
In other societies people tend to live closer and they protect and watch and accept these kids more. Look, his brother didn't even see him since 2010.

Last Year Handguns Killed

48 People in Japan
8 in Great Britain
34 in Switzerland
52 in Canada
21 in Sweden
42 in W.Germany?
10,728 in the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lost and confused:
We have had a war on drugs, war on porns, war on abortion all going on and of course the war on guns by the far lefties. But drugs are readily available, porn is nowmainstream, people will always have abortions if they want to and the same for anything they want . They will-do you always drive under the speed limit?

I guess I'll ask you again since you didn't answer. Do you really think these things are comparable to guns? I've noticed that you have a tendency to have knee jerk reactions to things.

Guns have been around for centuries. wtf is people still thinking we can stop them.Mexico has strong gun control laws-does it really work for them? Anyways, it was already illegal to bring a gun into that school-didn't deter him did it?

Stupidity is to think gun control -a device that has been aroundfor centuries -willsomehow control humannature.Itcan't -people will just find a way arounditandwewillend up like Mexico with only the violent underground and cops having guns
_____________________________________
Japan has very strict gun control laws and shootings are quite rare there, even within their mafia. way to cherry pick your example. And then just call anyone who disagrees with you 'stupid'. Real classy.

Why the excuses R'Pukes?
Why continue making excuses, this country requires a conversation, your only interested in creating a starwman and false narratives.

typical r'puke mentality. Typical.

GraooGra says

We should have better control over meds and mentally disturbed people.

Have you seen the Paul Ryan budget?

Just like Paul Ryan wants to cut mentally ill benefits they actually in real life cut $300 Million from securing our embassy's.

BENGHAZI!

The responsiblity for this shooting lies with the NRA, the politicians they bribe and lunatics who support them.
Check out the cowardly NRA:
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nras-facebook-page-disappeared-right-after-the-newtown-massacre-2012-12

Want to get a total gun ban passed next week and bypass all the NRA wingnuts? All the liberal media has to do is get some balls and publish ALL the crime scene photos of Sandy Hook Elementary.

These things tend to die down over time and it's business as usual, but one day it won't and the NRA will be history. Good riddance.

Small penis size + guns = murder. Restrict gun sales and murder rates would go down big time. Discover/engineer a way to increase penis size and no one would purchase guns again and murders by guns would be reduced by 99%.

GraooGra says

It is not outdated. This is leftist propaganda. They would like to change it because it is not in sync with the Communist Manifesto. Don't be gullible.It protects your rights as an individual, against the government as well. What if they decide that 1st amendment is also outdated and they start limit my speech and yours?

Not in sync with the Communist Manifesto? Good grief.

121212 says

You are Darrell, aren't you?

Guns are irrelevant speech is everything

"DiSlike" LMFAO

The Professor says

"Those that forget their history are condemned to repeat it".

"People without knowledge of their past have no future.Knw More About Ur Roots!"

.....................and what is there to dislike?>

.>..>>>>>>>>>>> rebut don;t stay quite?

http://patrick.net/?p=1219922

"heinous of all heinous crimes"

NY Knicks, NBA stunned, saddened by Newtown shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School

Bigsby says

Not in sync with the Communist Manifesto? Good grief.

Don't you know leftists/progressives are Marxists? They despise The American Constitution and freedom it stands for. It is incompatible with their ideology.

Feinstein will introduce assault weapons ban in Senate

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/12/16/feinstein-will-introduce-assault-weapons-ban-in-senate/

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) vowed Sunday to introduce legislation to ban assault weapons at the start of the next Congress.
“I’m going to introduce in the Senate and the same bill will be introduced in the House, a bill to ban assault weapons. It will ban the sale, the transfer, the importation and the possession. Not retroactively but prospectively. And it will ban the same for big clips, drums or strips of more than 10 bullets. So there will be a bill. We’ve been working on it now for a year,” Feinstein said on NBC’s “Meet The Press” during a discussion about guns following Friday’s deadly mass shooting as a Connecticut school.
Feinstein said she was confident such a measure could pass. In a separate interview on Sunday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said he too was was optimistic about the prospect of passing a gun control measure.
“I think we can get something done,” said Schumer on CBS’s “Face The Nation.” Schumer advocated focusing on three areas: Banning assault weapons, limiting the size of clips, and making it harder for “mentally unstable” individuals to obtain firearms.

Raw says

...but one day it won't and the NRA will be history. Good riddance.

Fine with me. I could care less about the NRA and feels it does far more harm than good when it comes to this kind of thing.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/12/16/school-shootings-gun-bills/1772931/

Mass shootings provide impetus for gun laws

Guns are banned in Brazil, and allegedly tightly controlled in Mexico. In Russia, if you aren't a Siberian hunter you can forget about legally owning firearms.

How's the drug war, another ban on items, working out?

Guns will never be banned in this country. There would be an insurrection first.

Culture and lack of support for mentally ill people cause the violence problems. The latter includes allowing those with severe problems - as this guy had - to be walking around to begin with. Also, mainstreaming kids with severe problems in regular schools is also a BAD idea, and it's mostly done for the vanity of the parents, regardless of the dangers to the kid (Bullying, Ostracism) and the kids around him (blowback/rage).

In most of Europe, the mentally ill children are NOT mainstreamed in with the regular kids.

Obviously this kid did not have a good mainstreaming experience.

thunderlips11 says

How's the drug war, another ban on items, working out?

Hardly a meaningful comparison seeing as the issue clearly isn't going to be about a comprehensive ban of all weapons.