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For the Married Guys (And the Guys Who Have Been Married)
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2012 Dec 28, 2:55am 166,436 views 460 comments
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121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:02am
Do not get married.
You dont need a piece of paper to prove your love.
If you live together and dont need the tax advantage marriage is unnecessary and a strain on your relationship.
You have to work harder without a marriage licence to stay together. Getting married will do you no favors in that department.
If you get married for TAX PURPOSES ONLY get a Prenuptial agreement, especially in California.
100% PRE-NUP
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 3:08am
Thank you for the reply.
This will be more effective if everyone who responds lists their marital status and number of years in that status.
100% PRE-NUP
At what point is the liquid/asset gap large enough for the pre-nup to make sense? Just as an example, say the following:
Man: $100,000 cash in the bank. Owns a $500,000 house (still owes $350,000 on the loan and the house is valued at $300,000 today).
Woman: $150K in school loans, $0 in the bank.
Pre-Nup? lol
You have to work harder without a marriage licence to stay together. Getting married will do you no favors in that department.
With all due respect, that's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?
Ceffer
2012 Dec 28, 3:19am
You are asking for guarantees and warranties on the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.
Euphoric love is basically a biologic trap getting individuals to commit for the purposes of viable reproduction. Sociologists have stated that some humans are monogamous, but a good portion are "serially monogamous".
Nature's demand is getting the rug rats to a reasonable age alive, thus the seven year itch.
Women's marketable asset is their reproductive capability, which diminishes as they get older. Vulnerability during pregnancy, birth and child infancy leads them to demand resources and commitment in exchange for sex. Men have to purchase this asset since they cannot reproduce.
After that, relationship viability would rely on companionship potential outside of the biologic contract.
One wag stated that men marry because they think their wives will never change, but they do. Women marry because they think their husbands will change, but they don't.
Whether you have a marriage that lasts or not depends on whether you can remain good friends with your spouse through the historical and biological changes and phases of your relationship. The hormones won't last, nor should you expect them to.
Whether you can remain friends is as unpredictable as anything else, but marriage does tend to be good for the health of men and pooling of tasks and resources has obvious advantages, along with social acceptance and growing of a family. Must be why people keep trying over and over.
Issues of religion are purely personal and depend on individual flexibility.
When you are blinded by hormones and "love", you may tend to underestimate the impact of finances or beliefs. Money is the prime mover of 80 percent of break ups, and what might appear as a small road bump when the hormones are raging will grow into a festering wound once the hormones dry up.
Shaman
2012 Dec 28, 3:20am
121212 is right about one thing: that when you're not married to the one you love, you try harder.
I've been married seven years. It's not always been easy or fun, but that is mostly my own fault. Guys have this genetic disease where we see something we want, hunt it down, drag it home to the cave, and promptly forget all about it. When that's a woman, we are setting ourselves up for trouble.
Women seem to have this constant need for affirmation, that they are loved, desired, needed, attractive, etc. And here's the rub, they are going to be skeptical of all attempts to tell them or prove to them that this is so. It ain't easy to even remember to do this as often as necessary, let alone come up with new and interesting ways of accomplishing the statement, "I love you."
Learn your wife's love language. It may be affection if you're lucky. Or it might be time spent talking and sharing thoughts. It may be gifts given that make her Believe, or it may be something entirely different. Whatever it is, figure this out! Then do it. Every day. Or at least most days.
Happy wife = happy life.
I can say that the relationship is more rewarding as it matures. Heck, even the sex can still be fantastic after a few kids if she's still in love with you! It will take work, more than you think, but I can tell you that it's worth it. I'm a very happily married man.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:22am
You have to work harder without a marriage licence to stay together. Getting married will do you no favors in that department.
With all due respect, that's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?
Nope, I have been married and am happily in a relationship without a licence for 15yrs.
I found that my wife once she was married was not half the woman I used to date. Not being married to a Woman will make them work harder for you and you for them!
lostand confused
2012 Dec 28, 3:23am
I think one thing that has changed, is that marriage was a practical thing before. You got together, life was tough, not this kind of safety net and people really needed each other and the extended family/community.
Nowadays, the govt takes care of everything. If you divorce someone-especially, if they have money-the govt forces you to give up a sizeable fortune in child supprot and alimony. Like that ex of Hulk Hogan who got 70% of his fortune and is shacked up in his house with a 20 yr old kid.
Then there is this idea of soulmate and the one-big deal. You are two people coming together-either you will be divorced or widowed- nothing lasts for ever. The older cultures all looked at it as a practical insititution-if love was there, fine gravy-but otherwise it was a solid insitution- a place you could come home to from the travails of the world and rest.
Now it isn't your own world. The government has control over everything. In CA, if you are a long term term marraige-which is just ten years-the court has jursidiction over you for life and can come and reopen the case and adjust the terms over anytime . So if you are married at 18 and divorced at 29, the court has control over you and your finances, till the day you die-which could be another 60 or 70 years from that date!!
Apparantely CA is one of the better states-states like FL, CO are horrible and several states still have lifetime alimony on their books. At least in CA, you can ask the spouse to get a job and become self supporting under the Gavron warning-but good luck if it is a long term marraige-aka more than 10 years. The spouse can still demand lifetime alimony-of course she doesn't have to do any work in return-just take.
Pre-nups too can be tossed out-if she claims she was emotionally distressed or some such.
Then there is obscene child support-where you are supposed to be an ATM-but have absolutely no say in how that money is spent or why. Just shut up and hand over the money and know your place-which is to hand over your wallet and not be heard . Charlie Sheen is being forced to give 55k a month to each of his exs- 55k a month in tax free child support-I mean -oh well. No country for men.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:24am
Woman: $150K in school loans, $0 in the bank.
Ok what's her credit like? Unfortunately that maybe the deal breaker.
You have assets she does not?
Does she work?
"Love is not a reason to get married anymore, TAX IS! If anything statistically you will be divorced before you know it. Stay single and work harder at being together"
Ceffer
2012 Dec 28, 3:31am
I have known a few men who thought they were in "happy" unmarried relationships who come home one day to find their "happy" companion gone with all the furniture.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:31am
Pre-Nup? lol
It's not funny, you have assets and work presumably?
Does she? Remember:
She is in debt and what happens if she STOPS paying?
A) You end up paying her debts
B) You end up owning her debts
C) You mess up you credit rating by marriage and any refinance you hoped for EVER!
D) She becomes a "DEPENDANT" and now you owe ALIMONY!! and possibly child support!
Child support is MINIMUM 20% of your income BEFORE TAXES!
If she stop working she is under no obligation to continue to work!
She can divorce you in California, you own her debt and now 50% of everything you have is hers! and because she was Dependant you owe Alimony x how many years you have been together!
I would consider your options.
Tenpoundbass
2012 Dec 28, 3:33am
Love is only a vehicle that gets you to the point of marriage.
After that you have to get out and walk the rest of the way. Sometimes it's uphill, sometimes its through the rough, sometimes its treading water, and sometimes you have to carry your partner. There isn't even a final destination, you're just on a journey.
I'm baptist and my wife is Catholic.
Religion doesn't bother me, as long as the person is either faithful or don't practice. What would annoy me in a relationship if my spouse were to jump from religion to religion, or assume what ever religion rang the doorbell. That's an indication of that persons inability to be committal.
As for advice I have a few...
1)I would advise to not have expectations between each other but assume roles and take responsibility to be effective in those roles.
This should be non spoken but understood between you.
I work and provide income for the family. My wife manages the money and pays the bills. As I have always hated doing that. I tended to pay to turn the lights back on, after the fact, rather than being bothered with mailing a check before the lights are cut off. That was just always my personality when I was younger. I am glad to have a wife that is good at budgeting and taking care of financial affairs. At this point I would be lost with out her. I don't even know any of the eBill log info for any of the accounts. She also has always been a wonderful Mother to our kids and kept a clean house and food on the table. This isn't anything I demand, but it does play into my reasons for being happily married, even when things are at their worst in our relationship. I would never come home and be out of sorts if dinner wasn't served, I just either make dinner plans for us all, or I defrost something and cook it my self. And when I'm between jobs or even when I decided to change careers early on from flooring to IT. My Wife never made me feel bad for not working at the time.
Basically I never demand she cooks and clean and she doesn't get bent out of shape when funds are tight or I splurge on something. But we both take it upon our selves to cover our share 95% of the time. SO these things never become an issue.
2)Space/Space/Space if you try to live under Woman's nose or if she's always up in yours, you'll both grow bored with marriage quickly.
Most couples feel like they are living with a stranger, when they go most of the day with out saying a word to each other, or setting in opposite rooms from each other. But the truth is, most marriages would last a lot longer, if they would embrace that, instead of trying to make a crisis out of it. I have my office/studio/man cave room where I spend a lot of time either working on music, programing on projects, or just watching TV while I surf the internet. She has her space where she create fashion and sewing, or she surfs the internet in her office, communicates on Facebook with her folks in Peru, she has a place where she does hair for friends and family, hair color, extensions, hair styles ect.
At times it would be easy to think, we've grown apart. Until a real crisis hits then we both spring into action surprising each other, with our loyalty to our family and each other.
Be there for each other with out being in the way. It's possible and there's not a damn thing wrong with the space if affords each other.
I should also add that it takes years to get to this state of marital nirvana, it didn't happen over night, nor was it planned out.
The crux of our relationship were always the kids.
I have always been a firm believer that once Kids enter the picture.
It's no longer about what we want or feel or expect out of life and relationships. It's about kids, our libidos, and social expectations of a lovey dovey spouse and all of that other touchy feely horse shit really has no place. If you can swing it, then GOOD, that's a bonus. But if you're striving for it, when it's not happening organically then you'll just be disappointed. And you're missing the point of having a family in the first place, and are in derelict of your duty as a Parent.
Once kids were in the picture I resigned to be in for the long haul. Or at least until I could deliver fine young ladies to of age, then my obligation in that regard would have been over. In the back of my mind, I figured I would cross that stream when I got to it.
Now we're not far from that day, and I find we've never been closer.
And there's warm fondness in quiet love just sitting in opposite rooms drinking coffee or sipping tea. It gives us time to reload for topics to share.
But everything has a caveat, all of this wouldn't have been possible if the sex wasn't always good. No matter what, you've got to get your freak on. Perhaps not as often as I would have liked at times, but it was frequent enough, and good enough to keep me interested all this time.
If she wasn't a great mother, and excellent wife and a wild cat in the sack I would have left her sorry ass a long time ago. :P
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:33am
I have known a few men who thought they were in "happy" unmarried relationships who come home one day to find their "happy" companion gone with all the furniture.
But not your BANK ACCOUNT and is not draining you month to month for Alimony. If it's just the furniture your LUCKY, VERY LUCKY!
Also if she steals your furniture and you have a receipt you can take her to small claims court and win.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 3:34am
Great responses and this is why I love this forum. There really is a wealth of knowledge, eduction, and experience here... at least more than any other forum I've been a part of.
Couple of things:
#1 - What is the distinction between monogamous & serially monogamous?
#2 - Sigmund Freud argues that men are driven by two things. The first is sex. The second is finding the passion/occupation that gives the man self importance. The second part defines character since we are all linked commonly in the drive for the first part.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 3:35am
Woman: $150K in school loans, $0 in the bank.
Ok what's her credit like? Unfortunately that maybe the deal breaker.
You have assets she does not?
Does she work?
"Love is not a reason to get married anymore, TAX IS! If anything statistically you will be divorced before you know it. Stay single and work harder at being together"
For the sake of argument, lets say both parties make 6 figures and both credit scores are perfect.
Goran_K
2012 Dec 28, 3:36am
Married for 7 years ( don't feel the itch yet...). I am a devout Christian.
Does marriage have ups? Oh heck yes.
Does marriage have downs? Oh heck yes.
Statistics aside, the #1 reason why people get divorced from my experience with friends/family/associates is because they go into it wanting something, and it isn't fulfilled.
For men, it's easy to see why. They choose based on input from their own dicks, not their brains. Take my friend "Shah" for instance. We go way back to our time as entry level analyst as Goldman Sachs. He's now the CFO of a credit union that serves hundreds of thousands of customers. He got there because he's extremely intelligent, analytical, and overall just a great asset to any company he is part of.
But when it comes to women? Big breast, long legs, and a nice ass. That's all it takes for him to think "this could be the one." I've seen this guy go through a horrible divorce where he got gutted for alimony to the tune of $150,000 a year. Even now when we go out for drinks, he's eyes always wander, and he ends up talking to women who basically look like strippers. I don't even try to stop him anymore. If $150,000 a year wasn't a good enough lesson, then anything I can say won't change that.
Another factor I've noticed is that people's wants/expectations change over time. That's a difficult one to predict. You might go into a marriage thinking your mate fulfills everything you ever wanted. 10 years down the road, something flips, and you want something else. Tough luck.
As for the "beginning love feeling", everyone gets that. Ever get a new phone? A new car? The first 3 months, you are "in love" with it. After a year or two, you're tossing that phone onto the table without a second thought, and your car hasn't been washed in 2 months. The feeling is simply a chemical reaction in your brain. Same with that "2 year love feeling" that eventually fades. It's nature's way of trying to get you and the other person involved mating as quickly as possible so you can procreate.
Here's some research about it:
http://askville.amazon.com/chemical-reactions-occur-brain-fall-love/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=12874518
After that, your wife won't be a sex kitten anymore. I don't care if you married Jessica Alba, or Kate Upton. Something is going to change. Your wife becomes more like your best friend. In a way it's a deeper more sustainable love because it's based on mutual interest, more deeply developed appreciation of each other, and a special familiarity. That's assuming you didn't pick someone simply based on lust. If you did, good luck, and hopefully you have a good lawyer. I've NEVER met anyone who said "the sex sustained them" over the long haul.
Also consider the fact that some people simply shouldn't get married. Marriage isn't for everyone. Don't get pressured into it. If it's not your thing, then it's okay. Plenty of happy people I know who have never been married.
New Renter
2012 Dec 28, 3:40am
Happily married, 12 years.
I suppose an analogy can be made between marriage and home buying. Homeowners provide some stability to communities as do married couples, both marriage and homeownership may have tax advantages, and a good marriage/home can be awesome, a bad marriage/owned home can destroy you.
Living together is like renting in that you get most if not all the benefits of owning without the commitment.
So, do you "buy" or "rent"? If you do decide to take the plunge the best advice I can give you is to marry your peer, someone who's opinions you respect and who isn't afraid to tactfully correct you and will accept your tactful advice/criticism.
You should have some very frank discussions about where and when you want to be in life (how many kids, what kind of lifestyle, etc.) and BE HONEST. You should both have similar goals.
One very important thing - If something about your beloved bugs you NEVER THINK YOU CAN CHANGE HIM/HER. It won't happen, period!
One of my favorite TV lines was marriage is whether you can put up with her crap and if she can put up with yours. If you can then you're set. If not you are in for a world of pain.
As for sex, fuggedaboutit. That part of you life is OVER my friend!
I have been with my wife for about 14 years, married about 9.
My advice?
1. Make sure you are compatible on key areas.
- Religion: You don't necessarily have to agree with each other, but should be OK with their beliefs and ok with raising your children with those beliefs.
- Finances: Probably more important than religious considerations. Financial strife plays a role in relationship disintegration quite often. If you don't agree on how to run your finances, it's gonna be tough, especially if one of you gets into financial trouble easily. Talk about retirement funding, debt in general, home ownership and leisure/vacation/toy spending.
- Children: Gotta be aligned on this one. Assuming you do want to have children, it's a good idea to talk about child rearing philosophy -- there is quite a range out there and you may not even know where you stand until you put some real thought into it (which usually doesn't happen until you actually have kids). Suggestion: Haunt the Berkeley Parent's Network forums and read about the different challenges / questions people have (and the responses). Do the same with a more conservative leaning forum. Where do you stand? I think this will force you to consider things you haven't considered in detail before and it might reveal some incompatibilities on this topic.
- General life goals, interests. Do you dream of having a cabin in the woods and living off the land some day? Does she see herself moving to Moscow to be an artist? These are things you probably already know about each other generally, but it doesn't hurt to have a deliberate conversation about it.
Don't rush into something because it's what you are "supposed to do", but also don't kid yourself that there is some magical perfect person out there just waiting for you. Keep your standards appropriately high, but know that whomever you are with today is not the right person for you in 10 years -- she will have to change and evolve as you and your life circumstances change and evolve. I think it's that process, if it happens in a healthy way, that makes two people "perfect" for each other.
Give 60%, expect 40%. Maybe the best one liner advice I have ever heard. It's something I return to often, because it's a reminder that we see thing through our own lens, and need to adjust your expectations to reflect that bias.
Another favorite one-liner: "Women are meant to be loved, not to be understood." (Oscar Wilde)
A psychologist I know who has done some marital counseling says that the biggest problems in relationships can be summed up as "unstated assumptions" or "unstated expectations" -- if you buy that, then you will understand why it's so important to get everything on the table for discussion before you take the plunge.
Go in with an open mind and an expectation that it's going to be damn hard. As perfect as you are today, you are going to have to grow and so is she. Life demands that anyway, but a relationship raises the stakes and brings things into focus.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:42am
#1 - What is the distinction between monogamous & serially monogamous?
You will be surprised that most woman are serially monogamous that cannot get married! or do not want to get married.
What is serial monogamy, basically over a lifetime being in multiple long term relationship without marriage.
Freud would have his mind handed to him by modern woman who are acting more and more like men as they find Independence.
Woman are driven by sex too, don't kid yourself. Passion/Work/Self Importance all traits woman aspire to today.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:44am
Woman: $150K in school loans, $0 in the bank.
Ok what's her credit like? Unfortunately that maybe the deal breaker.
You have assets she does not?
Does she work?
"Love is not a reason to get married anymore, TAX IS! If anything statistically you will be divorced before you know it. Stay single and work harder at being together"
For the sake of argument, lets say both parties make 6 figures and both credit scores are perfect.
PRE-NUP! 100% - Marriage is your choice. I've been through it and don't recommend it unless it is Tax efficient purposes. You do not need the government or religion to sanctify your union or love.
Marriage used to be about kids and yet marriage destroys children when you have hideous divorces and they all are. All of them are. It's one thing to get divorced and there are no kids, with kids woman get VINDICTIVE! You and your kids will suffer. I'm warning you now, getting married and having kids without living together being together for 5 years is a mistake.
Love is blind and woman are vindictive. Cover your ass legally and emotionally, plan, live together, communicate, become financial secure together. The more you balance the finance at the beginning the least issues will arise and expect to hate each other at some point.
If one partner is in debt and bad credit, DO NOT GET MARRIED. It hurts your both.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 3:46am
But everything has a caveat, all of this wouldn't have been possible if the sex wasn't always good. No matter what, you've got to get your freak on. Perhaps not as often as I would have liked at times, but it was frequent enough, and good enough to keep me interested all this time.
If she wasn't a great mother, and excellent wife and a wild cat in the sack I would have left her sorry ass a long time ago. :P
LOL! Thank you for that.
Sex certainly won't sustain a relationship in the long run, but if there isn't sexual chemistry, it will end one quickly.
Also consider the fact that some people simply shouldn't get married. Marriage isn't for everyone. Don't get pressured into it. If it's not your thing, then it's okay. Plenty of happy people I know who have never been married.
That's a great point and I agree 100%. Social/family pressures make this difficult for the folks that aren't wired for marriage.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 3:51am
Sex certainly won't sustain a relationship in the long run, but if there isn't sexual chemistry, it will end one quickly.
Marriage has nothing to do with SEX!
Tenpoundbass
2012 Dec 28, 3:52am
The sorry ass part was a bit tongue and cheek.
Basically I can't find anything negative to say about her, no matter how rotten I think things get. When I put in perspective.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 4:07am
Sex certainly won't sustain a relationship in the long run, but if there isn't sexual chemistry, it will end one quickly.
Marriage has nothing to do with SEX!
By getting married I am committing to abstaining from sex with other women. Therefore, the topic of marriage and sex are as linked to me as marriage and kids, marriage and finances, etc. Marriage without the sex is a 1-way ticket to you know where.
Tenpoundbass
2012 Dec 28, 4:09am
Marriage has nothing to do with SEX!
Well you didn't say your ex-wife was a Russian Mail order bride.
New Renter
2012 Dec 28, 4:27am
By getting married I am committing to abstaining from sex with other women.
As well as your wife is she has a "headache"
Marriage without the sex is a 1-way ticket to you know where.
Its where you find yourself when your wife is a working mom.
My DINK friends have the opposite problem. Their wives want sex but have let themselves go beyond the point where my buddies aren't interested anymore.
121212
2012 Dec 28, 4:34am
I believe that in fact it is illegal according to the 13th and 14th amendments. It should not be allowed for one person to enslave the other with financial hardships.
You should goto family court sometime!
It's awful.
Marriage enslavement is a great word for financial entrapment.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 4:36am
Religion was mentioned above and it sounds like you guys believe that it's not necessarily a deal breaker as long as both parties have a mutual respect for each other's beliefs.
However, beliefs are one thing, but practice is another. I had a friend break up with his GF of many years because they couldn't come to terms with religious practices and couldn't agree on how the kids were to be raised. He was atheist but respected her beliefs. She respected his but because the church was a big part of her spiritual and social life, she couldn't connect with him on that level. And regarding kids, he wanted them to make their own minds up. She wanted to raise them with the bible/church. And so they had a major problem on their hands and decided to can the relationship after several years. Makes you think that this should have been sorted out early on. But hey, people's thoughts, feelings, and position on things evolve and they may feel differently today than they did many years ago.
... And so slowly went the emotional connection, then the sex, then...
Hard to not get cynical with all this quite frankly.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 4:49am
Their wives want sex but have let themselves go beyond the point where my buddies aren't interested anymore.
That's another topic that is closely tied to all this. And as you know, it's difficult to even bring up to your partner because weight/appearance is the slipperiest slope of them all. What happens when you say "I do - for better or worse" and she puts on 50lbs after 3 years of marriage?
Case Study: My best friend went out with a girl for 5 years, both were mutual friends of mine. He was like me, someone who went to the gym regularly and stayed fit. Call it shallow, call it anything you'd like, but it was important for him to be with someone that did the same. After 5 years she gained some weight. He loved the gal, but felt himself growing apart from her. He made the tough decision to sit down and communicate his feelings to her. He didn't know at the time, but he was hitting the softest insecurity string in her entire body. Her insecurity skyrocketed, resentment grew, and the relationship ended shortly after. I don't know whether he did the right thing or if his approach could have been different, but it comes down to what's important for you. To him he felt the relationship slipping through his fingers and felt like he had to do something in the best way he knew how.
Personally, I think the weight thing is somewhat influenced by whether kids are involved or not. If there are kids involved, you have to be EXTRA sensitive. If there are no kids, and major weight gain, I'm worried and want to understand what is happening with my wife emotionally that is causing her to change drastically physically.
Oxygen
2012 Dec 28, 4:59am
I think marriage statistics is extremely biased (no shit). you have to use a more representative sample. for example, let's use my demographic
Asian (collectivism over individualism)
NY (higher avg age of marriage relative to every state)
115k income (financially stable)
no children (no baggage)
age 28
graduate degree (higher correlation with successful marriage)
even then, i still don't think marriage is a good bet. lol
it all comes down to values. Statistics is backwards looking and not representative of the future. In a western culture that celebrates the hook-up culture, marriage is a failing bet even for people like me.
Tenpoundbass
2012 Dec 28, 5:13am
In a western culture that celebrates the hook-up culture, marriage is a failing bet even for people like me.
In Asian cultures Children are an investment for care when the parents are elderly. There is a phenomena right now that many of the children are choosing a gay life style. These are cultures that have in recent times decided on a once child limit. Their future is in jeopardy, as well the gene pool of their ancestral blood line, of being cut off for the ages.
New Renter
2012 Dec 28, 5:15am
What happens when you say "I do - for better or worse" and she puts on 50lbs after 3 years of marriage.
That is IMHO one of the main reasons women GET married. They see it coming, hear the baby clock ticking and do whatever it takes to land a man while they still can.
Of course that is true for some men as well.
New Renter
2012 Dec 28, 5:16am
There is a phenomena right now that many of the children are choosing a gay life style.
Not a surprise when the culture also actively selects for male kids over female.
Oxygen
2012 Dec 28, 5:21am
There is a phenomena right now that many of the children are choosing a gay life style.
Not a surprise when the culture also actively selects for male kids over female.
lol never even thought about that connection
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 5:23am
That is IMHO one of the main reasons women GET married. They see it coming, hear the baby clock ticking and do whatever it takes to land a man while they still can.
Of course that is true for some men as well.
We all have some amount of responsibility to remain healthy and take care of ourselves. That's particularly true when married, especially if kids are involved.
Typically when I hear of one or both members of a marriage all of a sudden putting on a significant amount of weight, I immediately start thinking unhappiness, emotional distress, marital problems, a traumatic experience, etc as the source...
I'm 5'11 190lbs. Not coincidentally, the largest I've been in my life (220lbs) was also when I've been the least happy due to unforeseen circumstances. Not coincidentally, the most fit I've been in my life was when I was single, lol.
BayArea
2012 Dec 28, 5:23am
Not a surprise when the culture also actively selects for male kids over female.
Spot on.
Tenpoundbass
2012 Dec 28, 5:32am
Typically when I hear of one or both members of a marriage all of a sudden putting on a significant amount of weight, I immediately start thinking unhappiness, emotional distress, marital problems, a traumatic experience, etc as the source...
Some people get inactive due to chronic ailment or injuries.
Herniate or rupture a disk in your lower back, and it will be guaranteed that you'll be 30lb heavier with in 12 months. Unless you have the metabolism of a humming bird.
I'm not heavy, but I do know plenty of people that are. But I don't know one single person that is overweight because they are an uncontrollable glutton. I used to work with this guy that was about 5 feet from shoulder to shoulder. Yet! he could squeeze between the 6 to 7 inch space between a fence post and the wall of the building it was adjacent to. Now mind you, he was not wide because he was built muscular, he was one of those fat people that grows wide, instead of thick. I spent a lot of time with him, he ate like everyone else. No more and no less. He just couldn't lose any weight.
New Renter
2012 Dec 28, 5:44am
We all have some amount of responsibility to remain healthy and take care of ourselves. That's particularly true when married, especially if kids are involved.
Typically when I hear of one or both members of a marriage all of a sudden putting on a significant amount of weight, I immediately start thinking unhappiness, emotional distress, marital problems, a traumatic experience, etc as the source...
There's that. There's also working a demanding full time job, BA commutes, needy kids, laundry, home maintenance, portfolio management, etc. Not much time or energy left over for the gym in there much less sex.
Sure you can say make it a priority but something has to give.
Oops, forgot posting on PatNet...
lostand confused
2012 Dec 28, 5:45am
Well the thing with males in Asian culture was that it was the male kid's "job" to take care of you in your old age. You had a daughter , you "gave" her away during marraige and she became a part of someone else's family. The male kid and his wife took care of you-that was the societal expectation.
Of course things are changing there and society is becoming more western. People also have less kids and like here kids are becoming a liability instead of an asset. You raise them, take them from activity to activity, then they grow up, go away and you end up in an old age home anyways -with a few visits a year.
Families and marraiges were permanent , but with the skyrocketing divorce rates there-it is slowly starting to resemble western culture. Though the divorce rates are nowehere near here. I think the only place where any sort of tradition is being maintained is the middle east!!
Shaman
2012 Dec 28, 6:00am
Once kids come along, expect less sex. It doesn't have to dry up, but it's much harder to have time and energy for it all the time. Also kids are like throwing a hand grenade into your loving relationship. I'd recommend reading "Babyproofing your marriage" which is a book for people who want to stay married through having kids. It's just so hard, nobody would do it if they knew, and nobody who is a parent would ever want to go back and unmake their children. Well, almost nobody. Some parents are awful and some children are hellions.
Here's a good joke:
Q: What's the most fattening food?
A: wedding cake
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Hi guys,
As the old adage states, "Can't live with them, can't live without them."
For the guys that are married now or have been married, I'm wondering what your experience has been and if you could give a newly engaged man (hypothetical to me since I am not engaged) any piece of advise or wisdom, what would it be?
I love my GF, but for a few minutes I'm going to zoom out and look at things from a more technical, statistical, and less emotional point of view.
To be honest, I am a bit discouraged at just how many people I know who don't seem to be too happy in their marriages. It always seems to be the same story. Things started off great. There was excitement, adventure, strong physical and emotional chemistry. Then 2-3yrs into it, those feels started to fade. Some couples moved on to the next phase of their lives and had some glue, er I mean kids which kept things fresh and exciting.
I saw a plot in the newspaper several years back that showed divorce statistics as a function of time. There is a spike early on in the marriage (first couple of years), then one at 7 years (7-year itch), and one at about year 18-20 (when the glue is all grown up). If you make it past that, you are fairly safe (not necessarily happy, but likelihood of divorce is low). Some of that is influenced by the fact that you don't have the same options at 45 or 50 as you do at 25 or 30. Sucks, but that's the truth.
I recall reading a book by psycologist Scott Peck that studied the term "Love." He argues that 100% of relationships fall out of love, usually pretty early on in the first few years. The feeling of love is not true love then. The conscious decision to love someone once you lose the "in love" feeling is what real love is all about.
Regarding statistics, 50% of couples who get married in this country wind up in divorce (To be fair, some of those aren't 1st marriages so that 50% number isn't quite as bad as it seems - The reason is that 2nd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 1st marriages and 3rd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 2nd marriages). Moving on, if 50% of couples get divorced, then 50% of couples don't get divorced. Surely those 50% that remain together aren't all happy marriages? So then let's say that half of the marriages that stay together are happy. That means that 25% of couples getting married in the first place remain happy, lol. I really don't like the odds here!
But anytime you get into this debate, you have to get into the alternative, being alone into older age. As much as I see my folks fight and bicker, I tend to think it's better than the alternative (at least for the level they fight and bicker).
A while back Patrick argued that the average person remains in their purchased home for no more than 6-7 years. He said, you might think you are different, but statistically you are not. Same thing goes for divorce. Nobody goes into marriage thinking they will get a divorce. But statistically, 1 in 2 people do in the USA.
What do you guys think?
As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:
Both Members are devout Catholic ?
Both Members are devout Christian ?
Both Members are devout Muslim ?
Both Members are Atheist ?
Members don't share religious beliefs ?