patrick.net

curious2 says

Please tell me, what has your insurance and doctor given you that you could not buy on your own if the law allowed you?

I don't care about laws - I care about reality. I need medical care and am blessed to have it through my employer. Healthcare reform is about providing healthcare via insurance - a crappy plan, but it's a plan.

curious2 says

Everyone I know who has been to Mexico has found they could buy everything they needed at full retail for less than their insurance co-pay.

Sure - but would they have a physician who would diagnose them, work them in and be there to prescribe new medications when the old ones aren't working? To prescribe the correct amount of medication to alleviate my symptoms?

It's a non-issue - I drive a couple of hundred miles at most to receive my care, not hundreds of miles to Mexico. I'm talking reality, while you are talking about the ideal treatment for somene who has the ability to diagnose and treat a condition from which they suffer.

curious2 says

You extol your doctor, and even say proudly that you are grateful for the people who have made a revenue center out of your pain, and you blame the people who would rather see that money go towards research to solve the problem instead of continuing it.

Obviously, I would prefer that I didn't have this disease, and I wish that someone would cure it. But today, I'd like to not hurt for awhile.

curious2 says

Stockholm Syndrome ...

My doc is not holding me hostage, she's freeing me from the symptoms. The money I and my insurance are paying for my treatment don't interfere with the research currently being conducted.

I do enjoy the chutzpah you display by diagnosing me, over the interwebs without having ever met me, with Stockholm Syndrome, which is "Feelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim toward a captor." Very creative, but so unbelieveably fucking cruel to say that when you don't live inside my body and have no clue as to the insensitivity you display in demeaning my experience with a serious disease. curious2 says

employer sponsored insurance can seem like a good deal. Especially if you dislike your co-workers and employer, I guess.

Funny you should mention this... I purposely contracted a serious disease (the origin of which is still not known) in order to screw my co-workers. I actually enjoy the thought that their premiums are calculated based on my health condition. Except, of course, that our premiums decreased a few dollars per year.

curious2 says

But, literally everyone I know with employer provided insurance, who has also been to Mexico or Costa Rica, has found they could buy everything they needed for less.

Again, this works for people who have the ability to travel to other countries and who are able to self-prescribe. Many of my clients can't even drive across town... and would kill themselves self-prescribing.

I'm talking about reality - mine. You are talking about the ideal, where everyone is healthy and can pay for medical tourism. That is the problem with healthcare reform - we need universal healthcare for all and private insurance companies need to go away. We need to stop throwing money at the problem and start talking real solutions.

curious2 says

nobody should ever pull off a hangnail. That's just begging for infection. Always use nail clippers.

If I had said "clip" a hangnail, you surely would have chastised me for not mentioning sterilizing it first.

MMR:

Ellie didn't say that bullshit about people being able to go to Mexico or Costa Rica for care - that belongs to another poster. I live in reality, where people can't afford, and aren't able to, take a pretty trip to get cheaper medications.

Please correct.

I eat right, I rarely drink, and I take a shitload of medications that are designed to limit th progression of my disease and poison the shit outta me at the same time.

Ellie, how do you define "eating right"?

Ellie while I can certain appreciate your condition, and have a new found sympathy for you. You're like many ironically afflicted people in America with Insurance.
You like many people I know with things like Diabetes and Heart Disease, defend the Insurance companies and Doctor's racket, like people are criticizing them to do away with healthcare all together in this country.

There is no excuse for all of the Greed, Profiteering and Monetizing of the American public health. None it's just pure greed. I feel like the only sane person on Earth when news runs industry editorial propaganda fluff pieces, telling everyone that the Healthcare industry is this growth industry, and tout every medical related job as the high paying job of the future. And investors tout investing in the research, insurance, pharmaceutical, and Hospital facilities.
Who in the hell is going to pay for all of the BLOAT of unnecessary leaches riding on the coat tails of the Healthcare industry? We can still have high paid medical professionals in this country, and support staff that earn a fair wage, comparative to the duties they perform in regards to Healthcare. But there are a good 60% or more of over burden and fluff that contribute absolutely NOTHING to the quality of care in our Healthcare system.

I can have such disregard for the industry as a whole, the way is structured now, while still respecting those professionals that actually contribute to the healthcare. Other than those that only have a job, because our healthcare system is a labyrinth of convoluted systems, and administrative red tape designed to justify their existence.

Also when I imply that we should start reversing much of the way it is now, like doing away with Ameirca depending on Employer healthcare insurance, I'm not suggesting NOT implement a better way immediately, like just drop the way it is now and just hope it all works out.

The US government Spends trillions in R&D for medial and pharmaceutical research. There's no damn reason why the government can't searcher most of work them selves, (since our tax dollars are already paying for it), then license the formulas to not just one drug maker but many. Why should one company have a patent on something our tax dollars already paid for?
More over, why should Raulph and Sarah Q Employee get rich then lose it all investing in those companies who's product's research were already subsidized by tax dollars?

Day traders, investors, and 401K contributors are the ones that need to find another way to make money. People like you got it wrong, the American people in this country are the ones that deserve the right to affordable health care in this country, not the investors that have the right to get rich off the Health care of the American public. Health care in this country should organically be the price it levels to, with out the hundreds of out side and artificial means that inflates Healthcare costs in this country, just because so many unnecessary people in this country want's to get their Beak wet at the expense of the sick and infirmed and hundreds of millions that are trying not to get that way.

CaptainShuddup says

People like you got it wrong, the American people in this country are the ones that deserve the right to affordable health care in this country, not the investors that have the right to get rich off the Health care of the American public. Health care in this country should organically be the price it levels to, with out the hundreds of out side and artificial means that inflates Healthcare costs in this country, just because so many unnecessary people in this country want's to get their Beak wet at the expense of the sick and infirmed and hundreds of millions that are trying not to get that way.

Everyone, please mark your calendar. I agree with TPB today. Guys, it's not that I think insurance is awesome or that healthcare reform is tits on a ritz. But I work with people who had no access to healthcare and end up dying as a result of their lack of treatment.

We should wipe out our current model and start up socialized medicine in the same manner as other countries have. But for now, I am thrilled that I have access to healthcare and that other people do too. That things like pre-existing conditions won't preclude people from receiving care. I work on the front lines, where I see hospital executives who receive huge fat fucking bonuses tell us that the patient must discharge - and they don't care where - as soon as possible, even if the person is still sick as hell.

I work where people are seen in the ER after waiting 10 hours or so, only to be told to follow up with their primary doctor because their condition isn't emergent. These people usually don't have a primary doctor, and therefore can't even get a script for medication that would treat their condition. So, when a minor problem becomes a major condition, they come back, are admitted, then dumped back out for the county or state to force through their demeaning system, then deny them care.

I'm a fortunate one - I have insurance. I have treatment. I have the ability to sit here and say this shit on the interwebs because my hands work and I'm not in a fog of pain.

errc says

Ellie, how do you define "eating right"?

I carefully place the food that's on my plate onto a fork, and successfully shovel it into my mouth. lol

Seriously, have cut out much of the red meat, eat more fish & chicken or vegetables. Salads and/or steamed veggies, little or no dressing. Restaurant food is limited to healthier fare if at all possible.

I prepare everything possible on my own, buy little processed foods. I eschew anything that has aspertame or other sugar substitutes. After about 6 months, I noticed that I hurt less and my joints aren't as swollen.

Ellie let's not forget, that just because someone has insurance, doesn't mean they will be able to afford treatment for a major or catastrophic event.
The copay/coins/deductibles can be cost prohibitive for many people even on a modest middle class salary.

I just reduced our ins plan from the Cadillac $1500 a month plan to the almost $400 dollar plan. We will be saving $1000 a month. How ever if any of us, were to get a busted appendix, it could put in them in $20,000 debt. Even though they are insured. If I'm reading it right. The info on what the plan covers and how they pay is a bit tricky.

50/50 for Coins/ $2000 deductible/ $25 copay.
$20K max out of pocket

From what I understand, if I were to need a $40,000 operation.

The insurance would pay only$ 20K of it. Now of course if I needed another $100,000 operation a month later then that one would be fully covered.
And many outpatient hospitals, would require that you pay your share $20K upfront before they did anything. Who has that kind of cash laying around?

Insurance is a false sense of security, it's a scam. It's paying on top of what health care should be anyway with out it. I mean if there wasn't any insurance what we end up paying out of pocket anyway. Is what health services should be going for anyway. So in a big sense, they are totally unnecessary. For 90% of the public. It's because they cover so much for people with chronic ailments and conditions. They champion insurance and are the mouth piece for everyone on the subject. They aren't getting fucked at the expense of everyone else. So therefore Health insurance is great... "FOR THEM!".

elliemae says

Please correct.

i would say for families that keeps a nice rainy day nest egg of about 40K or so.
Medical vacations would not only be cheaper, but from what I've seen in the last 4 months of our supposedly great health care system. Probably just as good if not better. In Peru many operations and procedures cost like $300 those same procedures here in the states start at $30,000 just from the hospital's portion of the bill, with out the Doctors bill. In Peru that $300 covers everything.
And I've been there and seen it, and I've seen how sorry our Doctors and staff can be, quality isn't an issue, here it's strickly price.

Now like you said, this isn't an option for everyone. But for those who have enough money to fly to another country, find cheap accommodations, seek treatment and fly home, It could all be done for less than a few thousand. Or cheaper than some copays for the same procedure done here in the states on an insurance plan.

errc says

Ellie, how do you define "eating right"?

I kicked myself all f'ing day, the easiest and best answer was:

"I'm right handed."

Can I please take a mulligan on this one?

1. For non-essential care, all prices must be presented in advance of treatment. Every medical provider must have a publicly available price list! Yes, even if this means people make treatment decisions based on prices, which is what doctors say should never be allowed to happen.

2. For essential care, the government must set prices. There is no free market when you are not free to walk away, so prices go to infinity, and beyond.

Word.

There is no reason, other than what you have just stated, for a typical MRI in Tampa to cost $2000 when in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities on Earth, it only costs $250 cash and comes with tea and a 15-minute massage.CaptainShuddup says

i would say for families that keeps a nice rainy day nest egg of about 40K or so.

Medical vacations would not only be cheaper, but from what I've seen in the last 4 months of our supposedly great health care system. Probably just as good if not better. In Peru many operations and procedures cost like $300 those same procedures here in the states start at $30,000 just from the hospital's portion of the bill, with out the Doctors bill. In Peru that $300 covers everything.

Yep, it's time to start applying "Free Trade" to US Medical Costs. My wife went to the emergency room when she twisted her hip real bad. Cost $40 for ambulance, admittance, x-ray, and consultation. I would have been out at least $250, and probably more like $500 in the US under most insurance schemes, just for the co-pay for the E-R.

I also had a complete check up and cleaning including teeth x-ray for $15 a few months ago at the Dentist's. I didn't wait more than 5 minutes to be seen, either.

Yes I said if you have 40K in a nest egg, but I didn't mean you would need all of it.
You wouldn't want to be traveling anywhere in the world, without additional resources in the bank, for any problem you may encounter while traveling abroad.

Unfortunately the greed of western medicine is catching on in many thrid world rapidly developing countries, where doctors order unneceseray exams and make you go through stupid tests. In the end it is just massive human greed-against which we have nothing to fight against-unless you have medical knowledge too. Obamacare now just makes you pay a fine if you don't play.

CaptainShuddup says

Yes I said if you have 40K in a nest egg, but I didn't mean you would need all of it.

You wouldn't want to be traveling anywhere in the world, without additional resources in the bank, for any problem you may encounter while traveling abroad.

Travel insurance, my friend. I've helped to arrange for several patients' transportation home after a stroke or other condition; without travel insurance it's nearly impossible. A medivac across the country can be $40k or more.

And it's back to fucking insurance, huh?

thunderlips11 says

There is no reason, other than what you have just stated, for a typical MRI in Tampa to cost $2000 when in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities on Earth, it only costs $250 cash and comes with tea and a 15-minute massage

An Asian massage with each MRI? Does it come with a happy ending?

zzyzzx says

MMR says

I suspect that people who are 'all about money' don't often pursue medicine, since there are far easier ways to make money, like getting an MBA at a top 5 school.

I'm pretty sure that the "all about money" types frequently pursue medicine.

MMR and others ... easy money from top B-schools has a lot to do with one's parachute than educational achievement.

Here's an anecdote to chew on ... an engineer with a high undergrad GPA, did post-sales engineering work for 3-4 years and then got his MBA from Wharton. He was recruited by neither banking nor management consulting firms. And he applied to all the MC firms. Simply put, his parachute was wrong. He needed to have "equity" analyst or "junior consultant" from a M&S or a Booz-Allen, to be on the list for those industries, prior to applying. Instead, he'd worked in telecom and eventually, became an alleged director to a CTO group for something like $150K, not a bad salary but still, not what you'd expect from a place like Wharton.

Instead, if he'd scored let's say a 32-33 on his MCAT, he'd most likely be accepted to a medical school (granted not the top 25 [or even top 50] but still, a US AMA school) and later, he could become an anesthesiologist, earning $400K/yr, or if he doesn't like the OR scene, a pathologist for $250K/yr. Thus, for a person who's a good exam taker, if one is not *made* for investment banking or MC, then it's still better to become a doctor. And believe me, a lot of those folks have connections in those industries through friends and families.