patrick.net

Ellie let's not forget, that just because someone has insurance, doesn't mean they will be able to afford treatment for a major or catastrophic event.
The copay/coins/deductibles can be cost prohibitive for many people even on a modest middle class salary.

I just reduced our ins plan from the Cadillac $1500 a month plan to the almost $400 dollar plan. We will be saving $1000 a month. How ever if any of us, were to get a busted appendix, it could put in them in $20,000 debt. Even though they are insured. If I'm reading it right. The info on what the plan covers and how they pay is a bit tricky.

50/50 for Coins/ $2000 deductible/ $25 copay.
$20K max out of pocket

From what I understand, if I were to need a $40,000 operation.

The insurance would pay only$ 20K of it. Now of course if I needed another $100,000 operation a month later then that one would be fully covered.
And many outpatient hospitals, would require that you pay your share $20K upfront before they did anything. Who has that kind of cash laying around?

Insurance is a false sense of security, it's a scam. It's paying on top of what health care should be anyway with out it. I mean if there wasn't any insurance what we end up paying out of pocket anyway. Is what health services should be going for anyway. So in a big sense, they are totally unnecessary. For 90% of the public. It's because they cover so much for people with chronic ailments and conditions. They champion insurance and are the mouth piece for everyone on the subject. They aren't getting fucked at the expense of everyone else. So therefore Health insurance is great... "FOR THEM!".

elliemae says

Please correct.

i would say for families that keeps a nice rainy day nest egg of about 40K or so.
Medical vacations would not only be cheaper, but from what I've seen in the last 4 months of our supposedly great health care system. Probably just as good if not better. In Peru many operations and procedures cost like $300 those same procedures here in the states start at $30,000 just from the hospital's portion of the bill, with out the Doctors bill. In Peru that $300 covers everything.
And I've been there and seen it, and I've seen how sorry our Doctors and staff can be, quality isn't an issue, here it's strickly price.

Now like you said, this isn't an option for everyone. But for those who have enough money to fly to another country, find cheap accommodations, seek treatment and fly home, It could all be done for less than a few thousand. Or cheaper than some copays for the same procedure done here in the states on an insurance plan.

errc says

Ellie, how do you define "eating right"?

I kicked myself all f'ing day, the easiest and best answer was:

"I'm right handed."

Can I please take a mulligan on this one?

1. For non-essential care, all prices must be presented in advance of treatment. Every medical provider must have a publicly available price list! Yes, even if this means people make treatment decisions based on prices, which is what doctors say should never be allowed to happen.

2. For essential care, the government must set prices. There is no free market when you are not free to walk away, so prices go to infinity, and beyond.

Word.

There is no reason, other than what you have just stated, for a typical MRI in Tampa to cost $2000 when in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities on Earth, it only costs $250 cash and comes with tea and a 15-minute massage.CaptainShuddup says

i would say for families that keeps a nice rainy day nest egg of about 40K or so.

Medical vacations would not only be cheaper, but from what I've seen in the last 4 months of our supposedly great health care system. Probably just as good if not better. In Peru many operations and procedures cost like $300 those same procedures here in the states start at $30,000 just from the hospital's portion of the bill, with out the Doctors bill. In Peru that $300 covers everything.

Yep, it's time to start applying "Free Trade" to US Medical Costs. My wife went to the emergency room when she twisted her hip real bad. Cost $40 for ambulance, admittance, x-ray, and consultation. I would have been out at least $250, and probably more like $500 in the US under most insurance schemes, just for the co-pay for the E-R.

I also had a complete check up and cleaning including teeth x-ray for $15 a few months ago at the Dentist's. I didn't wait more than 5 minutes to be seen, either.

Yes I said if you have 40K in a nest egg, but I didn't mean you would need all of it.
You wouldn't want to be traveling anywhere in the world, without additional resources in the bank, for any problem you may encounter while traveling abroad.

Unfortunately the greed of western medicine is catching on in many thrid world rapidly developing countries, where doctors order unneceseray exams and make you go through stupid tests. In the end it is just massive human greed-against which we have nothing to fight against-unless you have medical knowledge too. Obamacare now just makes you pay a fine if you don't play.

CaptainShuddup says

Yes I said if you have 40K in a nest egg, but I didn't mean you would need all of it.

You wouldn't want to be traveling anywhere in the world, without additional resources in the bank, for any problem you may encounter while traveling abroad.

Travel insurance, my friend. I've helped to arrange for several patients' transportation home after a stroke or other condition; without travel insurance it's nearly impossible. A medivac across the country can be $40k or more.

And it's back to fucking insurance, huh?

thunderlips11 says

There is no reason, other than what you have just stated, for a typical MRI in Tampa to cost $2000 when in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities on Earth, it only costs $250 cash and comes with tea and a 15-minute massage

An Asian massage with each MRI? Does it come with a happy ending?

zzyzzx says

MMR says

I suspect that people who are 'all about money' don't often pursue medicine, since there are far easier ways to make money, like getting an MBA at a top 5 school.

I'm pretty sure that the "all about money" types frequently pursue medicine.

MMR and others ... easy money from top B-schools has a lot to do with one's parachute than educational achievement.

Here's an anecdote to chew on ... an engineer with a high undergrad GPA, did post-sales engineering work for 3-4 years and then got his MBA from Wharton. He was recruited by neither banking nor management consulting firms. And he applied to all the MC firms. Simply put, his parachute was wrong. He needed to have "equity" analyst or "junior consultant" from a M&S or a Booz-Allen, to be on the list for those industries, prior to applying. Instead, he'd worked in telecom and eventually, became an alleged director to a CTO group for something like $150K, not a bad salary but still, not what you'd expect from a place like Wharton.

Instead, if he'd scored let's say a 32-33 on his MCAT, he'd most likely be accepted to a medical school (granted not the top 25 [or even top 50] but still, a US AMA school) and later, he could become an anesthesiologist, earning $400K/yr, or if he doesn't like the OR scene, a pathologist for $250K/yr. Thus, for a person who's a good exam taker, if one is not *made* for investment banking or MC, then it's still better to become a doctor. And believe me, a lot of those folks have connections in those industries through friends and families.