patrick.net

Why are you racist Marcus?

marcus says

Why did Martin feel so threatened, that he fought like that. Could it be he feared for his life, and new that Zimmerman had a gun.

No. The Coroner's report indicates TM was high on drugs. Drugs often produce paranoia.

marcus says

This is fantasy speculation ? I think not.

The idea that Martin just attacked Zimmerman for no reason ? Now that's wild fantasy speculation.

Maybe not "fantasy", but certainly speculation. Right now all we have is speculation trying to fill in the gaps of what happened that night. A jury made it clear that we just don't have the evidence to know for sure what happened.

Either pro-Zim or anti-Zim there is not a lot of speculation here that is not in some way consistent with the evidence. Just different imaginings of what happened during the gaps.

marcus says

Goran_K says

What we can say for certain is, Trayvon had plenty of opportunity to escape from Zimmerman (as much as you can escape from someone you are beating into a pulp into the ground)

How do you figure ? It was probably when he tried to escape that he was shot.

Yep, the scenario where TM tries to break away from Zim then gets shot is one of the many "likely" scenarios.

SoftShell says

The offensive and defensive wounds I was referring to are the ones inflicted by the hands of the opponents. I look at the gunshot as neither defensive or offensive, but the fight ending life saving life killing final wound.

I guess I don't get your reasoning, but OK.

leo707 says

Either pro-Zim or anti-Zim there is not a lot of speculation here that is not in some way consistent with the evidence. Just different imaginings of what happened during the gaps.

Keep dreaming.

Yep, the scenario where TM tries to break away from Zim then gets shot is one of the many "likely" scenarios.

That would have the entry and exit wounds on the wrong sides of the body.

Reality says

Yep, the scenario where TM tries to break away from Zim then gets shot is one of the many "likely" scenarios.

That would have the entry and exit wounds on the wrong sides of the body.

I guess you missed the whole trial. Sure, why pay attention to the evidence when you have already made up your mind.

Makes sense.

Up until the point where GZ thought his life was in danger, all we can tell is that they fought with their hands. Those are the wounds I consider "offensive and defensive" leading up to the gunshot, which ended it all.

So in trying to determine who initiated the fight, I classified each wound on each person, omitting the gunshot wound as it is irrelevant to determining who threw the first physical punch. To me whoever threw the first punch is the guilty party. We will never know for sure, but the wounds are hard indicators.

So when I look at the punch wounds, GZ had a beatdown given to him by TM, who was clean on punch wounds, but had knuckle wounds from beating downn on GZ.

The gunshot wound? One could call it an 'offensive' wound, but it does not indicate to me who started the fight. That's why i did not classify it as such.

leo707 says

SoftShell says

The offensive and defensive wounds I was referring to are the ones inflicted by the hands of the opponents. I look at the gunshot as neither defensive or offensive, but the fight ending life saving life killing final wound.

I guess I don't get your reasoning, but OK.

dodgerfanjohn says

Why are you racist Marcus?

A better handle would be commonsensedodgerjohn

marcus says

dodgerfanjohn says

Why are you racist Marcus?

A better handle would be commonsensedodgerjohn

It's a legit question. You see the world through glasses the rest of us don't, as evidenced by your statements and opinions.

You are racist. Why?

Call it Crazy says

leo707 says

Yep, the scenario where TM tries to break away from Zim then gets shot is one of the many "likely" scenarios.

leo707 says

I guess you missed the whole trial. Sure, why pay attention to the evidence when you have already made up your mind.

Which is exactly what your doing.

Oh, really? My apologies!

Please point to the comment I made where I ignored the testimony from Zimmerman's expert witness saying that Trayvon may have been pulling away from Zimmerman when he was shot -- as was done by Reality. Something that would be totally consent with a scenario where TM is breaking off contact with Zim, but then gets shot. You did know that right? Or did you miss the trial as well?

It's amusing to listen to these sanctimonious, brainwashed racists spout off on this board. The revelation from the jurors really shines a light on these low bandwidth boobs with keyboards.

"That juror said she didn't think the shooting was racially motivated and that Zimmerman would have reacted the same way to someone of any race."

"I think he has every right to carry a gun," she said. "I think it's everyone's right to carry a gun" as long as they use it responsibly.

The juror said that she thinks it was Trayvon threw the first punch in the subsequent physical altercation that night and that she believed Zimmerman's account of what happened that night.

"I think George was pretty consistent and told the truth basically," she said."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/15/anderson-cooper-zimmerman-juror/2519569/

Call it Crazy says

Why don't you go turn on CNN right now and listen to one of the jurors in her own voice give her reasons for the verdict.

This is the juror that already signed a book deal right?

Call it Crazy says

lostand confused says

This is the juror that already signed a book deal right?

You don't have to listen because we all know your mind is already made up, and you know more than all the evidence the jurors saw.

Funny you of all people should be saying that. I asked you a question-that is all.

Call it Crazy says

lostand confused says

Funny you of all people should be saying that. I asked you a question-that is all.

What does a book deal have at all to do with it... talk about twisted logic...

She has a book deal , which she signed for money within a day or two of the verdict. Now she has to promote it and maybe if it does well enogh , it will become a Hollywood blockbuster or at least a Lifetime movie. Why would anyone believe someone who is trying to profit out of it.

The other jurors I would be interested to hear-but not the one with a book deal-because for her it is now pure marketing and sales-she is now a salesperson/author.

leo707 says

Zimmerman's expert witness saying that Trayvon may have been pulling away from Zimmerman when he was shot -- as was done by Reality.

This is utter BS. Please stop misquoting me.

leo707 says

That would have the entry and exit wounds on the wrong sides of the body.

I guess you missed the whole trial. Sure, why pay attention to the evidence when you have already made up your mind.

Makes sense.

No it does not. The entry and exit wounds clearly show that TM was facing GZ when the shot was fired. So TM was not at all running away from GZ.

Yeah, ballistics is not a new field, it clearly showed that Trayvon was hit from the FRONT, not the back, and the evidence suggest Trayvon was on top of GZ when he caught that round to the chest. This isn't really disputable.

Of course you can argue that maybe Trayvon was trying to escape at the exact second the bullet was fired, but that ignores the fact that Trayvon had a lot of time to escape, even when told by a neighbor he was going to call the cops if he did not cut it out, yet Trayvon continued to punch out Zimmerman.

Reality says

So TM was not at all running away from GZ

So you are saying that a person doesn't pull away (backwards) before running that they somehow are instantaneously turned around the very instant that they decide to flee ?

Reality says

The entry and exit wounds clearly show that TM was facing GZ when the shot was fired. So TM was not at all running away from GZ.

Zimmerman's expert disagrees with you, one can be facing someone and yet backing away.

Emphasis mine.

DE LA RIONDA: But it's also consistent with Trayvon Martin pulling back in terms of providing the same angle.

DI MAIO: I told you that, too, yes, sir.

Here is the transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/09/cnr.11.html

leo707 says

Also, Zimmerman also had plenty of chances to "getaway" from Trayvon.

That was part of Zimmerman's story actually, that he was walking back to his car...

Highly unlikely that Trayvon was attempting to escape at the exact moment the bullet was fired. Maybe he saw the gun for a split second then stopped his assault because he knew his ass was grass, but isn't that a bit too late?

Reality says

leo707 says

Zimmerman's expert witness saying that Trayvon may have been pulling away from Zimmerman when he was shot -- as was done by Reality.

This is utter BS. Please stop misquoting me.

My apologies.

Were you actually agreeing with me that Trayvon could have been pulling away when he was shot? Because when you said:
Reality says

leo707 says

Yep, the scenario where TM tries to break away from Zim then gets shot is one of the many "likely" scenarios.

That would have the entry and exit wounds on the wrong sides of the body.

That sounded an awful lot to me like you were disagreeing with Zimmerman's expert gunshot witness.

If I was misquoting you please feel free to clarify.

Goran_K says

leo707 says

Also, Zimmerman also had plenty of chances to "getaway" from Trayvon.

That was part of Zimmerman's story actually, that he was walking back to his car...

Yeah, I know. Zimmerman is a proven liar, and I only believe his story when it can be corroborated with additional evidence.

Do you really think that Zimmerman was going to follow Trayvon down the path to the common back yards, and then turn his back one of those assholes who always get away?

What motivation would Zim have to turn his back? What motivation would TM have to attack unprovoked? It makes no sense. I do understand that sometimes people act in ways that don't make sense, so yeah, maybe it did happen that way. I just don't think it was likely.

Goran_K says

Highly unlikely that Trayvon was attempting to escape at the exact moment the bullet was fired.

Only if he did not see the gun. I think that it is highly likely for someone to back away when faced with a gun. Often times brandishing a gun is just effective as using one. This is one of the difficulties with trying to measure how effective guns are for self-defense.

Goran_K says

Maybe he saw the gun for a split second then stopped his assault because he knew his ass was grass, but isn't that a bit too late?

It would not have to be too late. However, at that point a shooter might not realize that someone is pulling away.

I would start screaming if I was losing a struggle for a gun.

In fact, I have never seen a man scream during a fight.

I am certain now that Martin was the one screaming.

StillLooking says

I would start screaming if I was losing a struggle for a gun.

Other than Zim's fanciful tail, there is no evidence that there was any struggle over the gun.

leo707 says

StillLooking says

I would start screaming if I was losing a struggle for a gun.

Other than Zim's fanciful tail, there is no evidence that there was any struggle over the gun.

Men don't scream when they are fighting. I have seen too many fights.

Martin must have been scared of the gun.

leo707 says

What motivation would Zim have to turn his back?

Maybe he found where Trayvon was going to, and had an address to give to police like he claimed he was doing.

I'm definitely not going to assume he was hunting black people, he had plenty of opportunities to do that before Trayvon.

leo707 says

It would not have to be too late. However, at that point a shooter might not realize that someone is pulling away.

Uh, it's too late. You can't beat someone up, and then expect them to have split second decision making ability to not pull the trigger when the gun comes out.

Goran_K says

Uh, it's too late. You can't beat someone up, and then expect them to have
split second decision making ability to not pull the trigger when the gun comes
out.

Wow.

You're free the test the theory. 9 times out of 10 you end up in a body bag like Trayvon.

Goran_K says

Maybe he found where Trayvon was going to, and had an address to give to police like he claimed he was doing.

If this was the case it would have been in his statement.

The only reason I see for him turning his back is if he spoke with TM and felt comfortable enough to let him go on his way.

Goran_K says

I'm definitely not going to assume he was hunting black people, he had plenty of opportunities to do that before Trayvon.

Highly unlikely he was hunting black people. Also, highly unlikely TM was hunting white people.

Goran_K says

You're free the test the theory. 9 times out of 10 you end up in a body bag like Trayvon.

The murderer claims in his defense that Travon started the fight. Despite the fact, that he was the one following, despite the fact Travon tried to lose him and get away, despite the fact he was an MMA trained guy carrying a gun.

So you think it is just fine he shot a kid under those circumstances. Very interesting.

leo707 says

StillLooking says

I would start screaming if I was losing a struggle for a gun.

Other than Zim's fanciful tail, there is no evidence that there was any struggle over the gun.

Zim claimed a struggle over the gun? This proves Martin was screaming. He was terrified of getting shot and losing the struggle over the gun against a much heavier man.

Goran_K says

leo707 says

It would not have to be too late. However, at that point a shooter might not realize that someone is pulling away.

Uh, it's too late. You can't beat someone up, and then expect them to have split second decision making ability to not pull the trigger when the gun comes out.

Sure, if that is the way it went down. We still only have Zim's questionable word to confirm that story.

StillLooking says

Zim claimed a struggle over the gun? This proves Martin was screaming.

Yes, but none of TM's DNA was anywhere near the gun or holster.

Gornan:

Why was Martin screaming?

leo707 says

StillLooking says

Zim claimed a struggle over the gun? This proves Martin was screaming.

Yes, but none of TM's DNA was anywhere near the gun or holster.

Doesn't matter. TM must have had his arm or hand

Men screaming during a fight is very unusual.

. I have never seen it.

Why would anyone listen to that 'crazy ass craka'???

Blurtman says

"I think George was pretty consistent and told the truth basically," she said."

No.
He is saying that a person pulling away is reloading their next punch, raising their arm in the air along with their chest.
The "pulling away" theory has no traction.

marcus says

Reality says

So TM was not at all running away from GZ

So you are saying that a person doesn't pull away (backwards) before running that they somehow are instantaneously turned around the very instant that they decide to flee ?