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curious2
2013 Sep 12, 7:44pm
See also, "FRONTLINE: Living Old."
Mainly to maximize revenue for its biggest players, the medical-industrial complex has terribly extended the process of dying. The first five presidents lived a median 82 years, remained lucid until the end, and died at home. They had no access to modern medicine, it didn't exist. Today, the average American doesn't even live as long as they did, but declines through years of dementia and spending a life's savings in a nursing home. With a Congress now empowered to mandate everyone buy whatever their corporate sponsors say is for your own good, you're not even allowed to say no.
freak80
2013 Sep 12, 9:44pm
With a Congress now empowered to mandate everyone buy whatever their corporate sponsors say is for your own good, you're not even allowed to say no.
God Bless America.
elliemae
2013 Sep 13, 1:43am
people think of assisted livings as wonderful places that help old people - but most of them are places that will change your linens once a week, hand out your medications and give you meals - and charge a shitload of money. There are also smaller
group homes ( board & care) that help patients. In vegas, there are many that are hire immigrants and pay them around $1200/mo to start with two days off monthly. No benefits. Yep, I said that right.
The workers are not highly trained nor highly paid - even in the memory care places that charge $6,000 or more each month. They do have background checks, tho. Not that they catch everything - a nursing home administrator who was fired for her behaviors (billing fraud, screaming at staff, illegal discharges, etc) immediately found work running an AL. Within a few months the place had all sorts of reports to the state. She's still there after a couple of years. The company (below) is discussed in the frontline documentary:
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/06/5239682/nursing-home-giant-found-guilty.html
Payments for AL's is private, no insurance. For the care they provide, it's often better to stay at home and hire a housekeeper. you'll save money and be at home.
MershedPerturders
2013 Sep 13, 3:50am
what is the point of even keeping someone alive at that point?
these facilities cost more than the average person makes in a year. So they can sit on a moldy couch and watch TV, take pharmaceuticals while the children are far away so they dont have to see them.
finehoe
2013 Sep 13, 4:03am
there are many that are hire immigrants and pay them around $1200/mo to start with two days off monthly. No benefits.
God Bless Right-to-Work States.
MershedPerturders
2013 Sep 13, 4:22am
sometimes death is the best option. In days of yore, basic economics would typically determine your life span but at some point we adopted the ethic of keeping someone alive for as long as technology permits, regardless of cost, quality of life, or even financial viability.
these days people burn through their entire life savings while partially conscious with absolutely nothing to look forward to.
zzyzzx
2013 Sep 13, 4:24am
what is the point of even keeping someone alive at that point?
these facilities cost more than the average person makes in a year. So they can sit on a moldy couch and watch TV, take pharmaceuticals while the children are far away so they dont have to see them.
I agree.
freak80
2013 Sep 13, 4:26am
these days people burn through their entire life savings while partially conscious with absolutely nothing to look forward to.
The fear of hell is powerful; and adds to the fear of death. The fear of hell has been put into many people since childhood.
Heraclitusstudent
2013 Sep 13, 4:37am
what is the point of even keeping someone alive at that point?
A lot of them are not 'kept' alive. Just having dementia doesn't mean you will die quickly, or because it's convenient for someone else.
And a moldy couch and TV may seem an attractive alternative to jumping out of the window.
elliemae
2013 Sep 13, 6:41pm
Most people who reside in AL's are elderly but alert & oriented and have the capacity to make decisions. They just don't live in their own homes any longer.
Might surprise ya'll to know how few actually have dementia - and even if are diagnosed with dementia, that doesn't mean that they don't know what's going on.
In the US (except Oregon & Washington & Vermont), we don't allow assisted suicide. Patients are allowed to die a natural death, but if it takes too long the patient just has to wait. That doesn't include shutting off ventilators or stopping tube feedings. Families or POA's in all 50 states are able to stop tube feedings/ventilator support in many situations.
Assisted suicide includes administering medications that will cause someone's life to end
elliemae
2013 Sep 14, 1:30am
guess you never heard of hospice???
Other than the 25 years of experience that I have in the medical field, including 15 years of hospice, why no...
Hospice is NOT assisted suicide. The program provides all of the medications, supplies, services & equipment to make a patient comfortable. It neither hastens nor delays the dying process.
Fuck. That was an easy one.
Dan8267
2013 Sep 14, 6:53am
the medical-industrial complex has terribly extended the process of dying
These parasites are disgusting. People need to accept responsibility for taking care of aging parents rather than shoving them off to such cattle ranches. It's a natural part of life now that lifespans are longer, and people should see each day they get to share with their parents, each day their children get to share with their grandparents as a gift because once their gone, their gone.
freak80
2013 Sep 14, 10:05am
and people should see each day they get to share with their parents, each day their children get to share with their grandparents as a gift because once their gone, their gone.
No Dan. There's a Pie in the Sky When You Die. Haven't you heard? ;-)
curious2
2013 Sep 14, 10:31am
The fear of hell is powerful; and adds to the fear of death.
For centuries the Catholic church built its fortune this way, hearing confessions and threatening eternal damnation but offering forgiveness in exchange for all the assets. The NT says to give everything - everything - to the church. It's amazing how many people followed that, and how rich the church became as a result.
There's a Pie in the Sky When You Die. Haven't you heard? ;-)
Yes, I've heard, and I always wonder, if they really believe that, why do they postpone going there? They sound like they should be eager to shuffle off this mortal coil, but instead they want everyone to spend every penny postponing the inevitable for just a little bit longer.
freak80
2013 Sep 14, 10:40am
For centuries the Catholic church built its fortune this way, hearing confessions and threatening eternal damnation but offering forgiveness in exchange for all the assets.
Oh trust me, I know the psychology quite well, unfortunately. And it's not just the Catholic Church, it's most of conservative Protestantism too.
Yes, I've heard, and I always wonder, if they really believe that, why do they postpone going there?
Because many churches also teach that suicide results in guaranteed eternal damnation.
They sound like they should be eager to shuffle off this mortal coil, but instead they want everyone to spend every penny postponing the inevitable for just a little bit longer.
Because even a 1% chance of eternal torture after you die is horrifying. What's 1% of infinity? It's better to postpone that "moment of reckoning" until the last possible second. Nothing is more terrifying than eternity.
Trust me, I know the psychology all too well. It's the world I lived in until about a year ago.
elliemae
2013 Sep 14, 11:35am
Riiggght..., they've never withheld IV's and nutrition and they've never increased medication (morphine) to patients "to keep them comfortable" in hospice....
When a patient is dying, you can give them all the fluids you want... and they'll drown in them. The fluids begin leaking out of patients orifices and their skin. This has proven to be painful and can cause a systemic infection. Fluid settles around the heart, making it difficult to beat. And they settle in the lungs, essentially drowning the patient.
When a patient is dying, you can give them artificial nutrition and they'll aspirate and die, choking to death. Their bodies can't use the nutrition, so the food just sits in their stomach.
These types of treatments are called "artificial nutrition and hydration" because they're not part of the natural process. Patients are dying anyway, why attempt to force feed them and pour liquids into them? Their lives won't be extended, the cost of providing these treatments is prohibitive. I've seen people whose families try these treatments and it ain't pretty.
Increasing morphine doesn't kill patients, it makes them more comfortable. Patients die with or without the morphine - do you want your family member to be in pain or respiratory distress, or would you like them to be comfortable?
Of course, if the patient suffers from cancer (say, pancreatic cancer), it's incredibly painful and the morphine is freely administered. Might I suggest that you find a hospice with an inpatient unit and volunteer? You would learn about these things and understand comfort measures versus euthanasia.
You don't know what you are talking about.
freak80
2013 Sep 14, 12:23pm
You don't know what you are talking about.
It's the steady stream of Fox News fluids to the brain...
elliemae
2013 Sep 14, 2:07pm
Yes - I work with people every day who think that they know more than the doctors do... and I've seen them withhold medications, force family members to receive treatments they don't need, want and cause them pain.
People feel the need to be right and to feel superior, rather than to accept that there are professionals who can help patients through the dying process. I've had patients beg their family members to allow hospice workers to do their job - and the worst is when they fight each other and the family member ends up being shut out.
It tears up families forever. So if call it crazy's family member is dying, I hope that 1) I don't have to treat them, and 2) he's not the decision-maker (real or self-appointed).
Life and Death in Assisted Living
so you want to live forever ... Live a long long life!
that is the achilles heel of non-believers..
Heck, i hope i die the day i can no longer wipe my own ass.
Y
2013 Sep 14, 2:33pm
They should fear the nursing home.
freak80 says
The fear of hell is powerful; and adds to the fear of death. The fear of hell has been put into many people since childhood.
Y
2013 Sep 14, 2:40pm
Prove it.
each day their children get to share with their grandparents as a gift because once their gone, their gone.
Y
2013 Sep 14, 2:47pm
The idea is not to live the longest life.
It is to live life in the best health possible.
Life and Death in Assisted Living
so you want to live forever ... Live a long long life!
that is the achilles heel of non-believers..
Heck, i hope i die the day i can no longer wipe my own ass.
It is to live life in the best health possible.
you can do that when you young..
... after all that... prepare your soul for your maker.
New Renter
2013 Sep 14, 3:32pm
Life and Death in Assisted Living
so you want to live forever ... Live a long long life!
that is the achilles heel of non-believers..
Heck, i hope i die the day i can no longer wipe my own ass.
Why do you hate success?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
http://listverse.com/2009/09/24/top-10-strangest-jobs-in-history/
http://hankeringforhistory.com/groom-of-the-stool/
Groom of the Stool: definitely one of the shittiest jobs in history
elliemae
2013 Sep 15, 2:23am
It's OK, I've spent many years in the medical industry.... But, thanks for playing along...
perhaps you should stick to what you know, whatever that is. Or educate yourself about hospice.
Groom of the stool? ewwwww!
If you think ordinary real estate companies are bad, watch this: "These three deaths, an alleged sexual assault, and a senior’s disappearance, are among the more than two dozen cases of questionable care uncovered by FRONTLINE and ProPublica at the nation’s largest assisted living provider."
#housing