patrick.net

No, but I do think it is receding and shrinking in size.

Ignorant entitled white-supremacist meth-head barrel suckers may voluntarily give up the free cash they mooch from real states each year?

Oh noooes!

What will we do without their moral superiority, their condescension, and their greedy clamorimg for handouts?

Nah, the Kenyan Keynesian just wants to consume the red state fatties in an orgy of cannibalistic savagery before placing the United States under the authority of the Nairobi government and then instituting Sharia Law.

Don't impute overly-complex motives when basic, simple human needs are really what this is about.

As far as I'm concern Obama can leave with them. Just don't let the red states have any nukes or heavy armor. I don't trust those warmongering slavers.

Honest Abe says

Could it be that the moochers who elect the looters to steal from the producers would run out of other peoples money if the red states actually seceded?

No, actually, it's the opposite. Most Red States Take More Money From Washington Than They Put In.

http://sites.google.com/a/kamali.net/images/home/fed-spending-per-revenue-by-state

Blue states would be far better off and would pay far less in taxes if they didn't have to support the crappy ass red states, which are crappy because they don't spend enough of their instate dollars on infrastructure and social safety nets leaving the federal government and blue states the task of keeping their population from starving.

Speaking for all "blues", I'm tired of supporting red welfare queens who then go and bitch and moan about the very support I'm giving them.

Honest Abe says

That is the problem of socialism isn't it? Running out of other peoples money...hahaha.

The largest socialist program in the United States, by far, is the military. Over half of all socialism spending is spent on the military. If we're going to cut socialism, let's start there. We'll save a lot more by cutting warfare than by cutting education and food stamps.

Defense contractors spend our hard earned dollars on junk we don't need and then start trouble in other parts of the world in order to justify more warfare spending. The warfare industry makes us less safe and doubles our taxes!

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't cut welfare, medicare, and social security, but you got to start with the biggest waste first, and that's the warfare industry. It's expensive and counterproductive. And if you aren't for cutting the military by at least 90%, you don't think we're spending too much, you just don't like what we're spending the money on.

I might not be in favor of giving food stamps to a poor black woman with five children, but it is certainly less vile, less expensive, and less evil than paying to have children blow up in Afghanistan. So any argument that says we must cut food stamps that doesn't also argue cutting the warfare spending can be dismissed without serious consideration.

I've thought about it and I believe I know why red states suck more federal dollars per capita than blue states. The right-wig party is for 1) hard, honest work, 2) religious rights and traditional values, and 3) big business.
The left is for balanced power between employers and employees (pro union), 2) humanist values including plenty of social programs to help the poor, and 3) responsible business (no environmental destruction or child labor up in here!).

So the right wing states get right-to-work laws which eliminate unions and reduce pay to minimal values. They get religion-inspired social laws. They get run by big business interests that will do whatever is best for shareholders.

Left wing states get unions which raise the average wage, lifting all boats by increased money for the working class. This helps the local economy thrive and sets a higher standard of living. This leads to more taxes paid by workers. Businesses pay little tax after all their tax breaks so that's a wash. But the workers in blue states are much larger tax payers on average than red states. Now, due to their social nets being wider and deeper, blue states also have much higher numbers of the poor they must feed and house and provide medical care for. This costs a lot of money, money which isn't coming back to the state from federal receipts. So blue states have MUCH higher income taxes and every other state tax to make up the difference.

Bottom line: blue state workers make more, pay more in taxes, and the difference goes to red states to Make up for all the money they are not making since big business doesn't pay workers much there.

Unions matter. Collective bargaining rights is probably the largest reason why California continues to be a reasonable place to live. Even if you don't have a union job, the pro-union environment ensures that employers will have to pay you more money to secure honest labor that won't unionize or get siphoned off by other higher paying jobs.

Dan8267 says

Blue states would be far better off and would pay far less in taxes if they didn't have to support the crappy ass red states, which are crappy because they don't spend enough of their instate dollars on infrastructure and social safety nets leaving the federal government and blue states the task of keeping their population from starving.

Many people ..MANY from NY and California have moved to the South.
Even California saw more out migration over in migration. Its no mystery
many who worked for decades are moving and retiring to the south.

Quigley says

Left wing states get unions which raise the average wage, lifting all boats by increased money for the working class. This helps the local economy thrive and sets a higher standard of living. This leads to more taxes paid by workers. Businesses pay little tax after all their tax breaks so that's a wash. But the workers in blue states are much larger tax payers on average than red states

Unions have not worked in the global economy... from where are you going to lift all boats... where does the money come from.. higher revenues ? how can that be when your not selling more products due to higher costs ? This thinking ended badly as highly unionized companies crashed and burned in the late 70s.

As for special breaks.. there are no special breaks.. all companies pay their fair share, Do read up on Temp deferred tax differences...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_tax#Temporary_differences

Dan8267 says

And if you aren't for cutting the military by at least 90%, you don't think we're spending too much, you just don't like what we're spending the money on.

We have the world's strongest military to ensure the dollar stays the world's strongest currency.

Quigley says

Unions matter. Collective bargaining rights is probably the largest reason why California continues to be a reasonable place to live. Even if you don't have a union job, the pro-union environment ensures that employers will have to pay you more money to secure honest labor that won't unionize or get siphoned off by other higher paying jobs

can you point to a recent industry which uses Unions.. have you seen unions in Silicon Valley ? They certainly didnt matter for better part of California history.

thomaswong.1986 says

from where are you going to lift all boats... where does the money come from.. higher revenues ? how can that be when your not selling more products due to higher costs ? This thinking ended badly as highly unionized companies crashed and burned in the late 70s.

Thomas--it's pretty simple really. Instead of all the money going to the owners, it would go to the workers. That's one of the main problems with our economy right now--capital is rewarded much more than labor. That creates wealth disparity.

How much do programmers in Texas make? Hmm?
The union friendly state lifts wages for ALL. Even fast food has higher average pay.
My union is active in aerospace, a chapter next to Boeing in fact. Also we have thousands of members who are aircraft mechanics nationwide. Coal miners too. All of the ports are ILWU members who do most functions related to shipping.
Sorry, Thomas, but the reason you make decent money is not because you're awesome but because everyone does.

Honest Abe says

Could it be that the moochers who elect the looters to steal from the producers would run out of other peoples money if the red states actually seceded?

That is the problem of socialism isn't it? Running out of other peoples money...hahaha.

First of all, your comments make no sense. The poorest states in the country are ( drum roll.... ) the reddest! That's right- the states that have the highest numbers of folks taking part in social programs also live in states that reliably vote for Republicans!

So now with that taken care of, as someone from a red state myself... please don't insult people from my home area. Sorry, but even in my home state we generally regard people with far-right ideology as fringy and not representative of most of us.

foxmannumber1 says

We have the world's strongest military to ensure the dollar stays the world's strongest currency.

The military has nuttin' to do with currency.

thomaswong.1986 says

Many people ..MANY from NY and California have moved to the South.

Even California saw more out migration over in migration. Its no mystery

many who worked for decades are moving and retiring to the south.

This is very true and it also has a positive effect: It dilutes the "Redness" of those states as seen by more recent elections.

foxmannumber1 says

Dan8267 says

And if you aren't for cutting the military by at least 90%, you don't think we're spending too much, you just don't like what we're spending the money on.

We have the world's strongest military to ensure the dollar stays the world's strongest currency.

The military can't do jack diddly shit to offset the effects of currency debasement. The only way the military could protect our currency is by bombing the Federal Reserve and taking out bankers with drone strikes. And that's the first use of drones of which I'd approve.

Honest Abe says

Gee, if you libs think it's a good idea for the red states to leave the union, why is it that your dear leader, Barakovitch Hussain Obama, is so opposed to it?

He's smart. He wants to hold on to the land, because one day it may no longer be inundated with rednecks, white supremacists, and fundamentalist idiots.

For example, what if one day within the next couple hundred years, lifespans are greatly increased, and therefore people have to meet certain income and intelligence requirements before being licensed to reproduce (in order to avoid overpopulation).

If that day comes, then red states as we know them today, with a lot of inbreeding and sub 90 IQs would change entirely, and eventually be indistinguishable from what are now blue states.

edvard2 says

This is very true and it also has a positive effect: It dilutes the "Redness" of those states as seen by more recent elections.

Actually, its the Redness in California that has been diluted in recent years..
so many Calif conservative have moved south. The California i once knew
is long long gone.. its no longer the land of opportunity but one of govt programs
which taxes entrepreneurs and small business. There is no way we could have
become the 8th or 11th largest economy based on Liberal government policies.

humanity says

If that day comes, then red states as we know them today, with a lot of inbreeding and sub 90 IQs would change entirely, and eventually be indistinguishable from what are now blue states.

The average black American IQ is 85. The average White American IQ is 100. This gap persists across all socioeconomic distributions. Even after trillions of dollars spent closing the achievement gap it has not moved at all. The logical conclusion is that intelligence is mostly genetic and drawn along racial lines, but it is fun to watch liberals twist themselves in knots to explain away the obvious. This knot is always tied with 'its whiteys fault'.

An experiment:
White liberals take all the blacks, who are mostly in the 'red' states right now, and create a multiculti utopia.

The evil white race realists go somewhere else and live in a racially homogenous society, which studies have shown to be more happy than racially heterogeneous societies. Let's see which group does better.

humanity says

f that day comes, then red states as we know them today, with a lot of inbreeding and sub 90 IQs would change entirely, and eventually be indistinguishable from what are now blue states.

there is a myth that southern states have inbreeding.. but the facts is often overlooked. take the facts regarding different ethnic people below in the article. Chances are high for inbreeding for latin americans and middle easterners. whites/europeans are low.

http://discovermagazine.com/2003/aug/featkiss#.UliDedfC2JM

edvard2 says

Many people ..MANY from NY and California have moved to the South.

Well yeah, if we have to pay for their lifestyle, the least that they could do is wait on us.

Dan8267 says

Blue states would be far better off and would pay far less in taxes if they
didn't have to support the crappy ass red states, which are crappy because they
don't spend enough of their instate dollars on infrastructure and social safety
nets leaving the federal government and blue states the task of keeping their
population from starving.

Speaking for all "blues", I'm tired of supporting red welfare queens who then
go and bitch and moan about the very support I'm giving them.

Honest
Abe says

That is the problem of socialism isn't it? Running out of other peoples
money...hahaha.

Except that you're not in a 'blue' Dan, you're one of the anchors, according to your own chart.

And the answer to red state seceding? I f-n hope so, can I help you pack?

upisdown says

Except that you're not in a 'blue' Dan, you're one of the anchors, according to your own chart.

You're analysis is incorrect.

1. The chart states that Florida gets back only 97% of what it pays in taxes. You can argue that Florida isn't much of a giver state, but it certainly isn't a taker.

2. Florida is a microcosm of the United States. North Florida is the south and is red. South Florida is the north and is blue. Tax revenues from south Florida are far greater than from north Florida, whereas federal expenditures are reverse. So the politically red part of Florida is a taker while the blue part of Florida is a giver, and the two nearly equally balance each other out.

3. I live in south Florida and I pay in taxes easily ten times what I get back in services. That's the downside of being a smart, single, educated man with a good career producing wealth for a living; you get taxed through the nose by our stupid tax codes.

4. Although there are a few exceptions, overall red states are overwhelmingly the recipients of socialist wealth redistribution. So, let's get rid of this socialism and stop redistributing wealth to the red states. We can start by getting rid of all defense contracts and farm subsidies, those secret Muslim socialist programs.

At this point the whole economy is a govt jobs program.
Really 99% of the people work on shit we dont need, luxury items, entertainment, etc.
Half the country works in real estate lending etc, construction, etc so women can tear out the old brown tiles and put in the new fancy beige travertine ones - which have the same functionality as teh old ones. talk about useless, everything sold at home depot typically replaces something that works fine but is 'wrong color'.

upisdown says

And the answer to red state seceding? I f-n hope so, can I help you pack?

I'm all for building a moat just south of the panhandle and cutting Florida off from northern immigration and all those Georgian hillbillies. I've been advocating that for years. Of course, we'd have to get rid of all the southerners in north Florida or the state would split into two separate geo-political entities.

By the way, I'm all for the right of people to secede from their nation. I just don't think it should be done on the state level, but rather by a means that lets any large group of persons in terms of number and land area to peacefully form a separate country and take their land with them. Image the competition it would bring to nation-states.

However, if the slave states -- and that's really what we're talking about -- were to secede, they still should not be allowed to bring slavery back, invade Mexico, or engage in warfare other than defense of their own land. In other words, those shifty-eyed rednecks need to be watched or they'll cause another genocide. This is unfortunate, but true. The slave states are full of people with no respect for human rights.

PockyClipsNow says

Really 99% of the people work on shit we dont need, luxury items, entertainment, etc.

I think that's because we import 99% of the shit we do need, and we have to pay for it somehow.

Dan8267 says

You're analysis is incorrect.

Your own f-n chart has Florida as red, does it not? Now, according to (again your own chart) the disparity is .03 cents, but still red.
So, in a sense we're both wrong, me in that your state is an 'achor', and you that it is actually a 'red state'.

Dan8267 says

I'm all for building a moat just south of the panhandle and cutting Florida off
from northern immigration and all those Georgian hillbillies.

Screw you, you're taking ALL of Georgia and Floriduh, and leave what's left or salvagable of TN and NC to people that have a pulse and brain functions. That area is too nice to have the one-eyed, one eared morons inhabit it.

thomaswong.1986 says

there is a myth that southern states have inbreeding.

You've obviously never travelled in rural Georgia or Tennessee then. Family tree no branches.

upisdown says

Your own f-n chart has Florida as red, does it not?

Are you confused? I thought I explained this clear enough, but I'll try again. Yes, the chart simply does a litmus test to categorize states into red or blue, but Florida is really damn close to half and half, which is why it's known as a swing state. Perhaps you've heard that term before. It means Florida flips flops between red and blue like John Kerry at the International House of Pancakes. Florida is the mother of all swing states.

So, although the chart displays Florida in red -- and probably could have gotten away with rendering Florida blue -- Florida is certainly no where near as red as Texas, Mississippi, George, North Carolina, or Alaska.

Now perhaps the concepts of gradations is unfamiliar to you, but there are these things called degrees and shades in the real world. So if you're trying to make the point that Florida is one of those states in which the population is calling for succession, you're wrong.

The fact is that the southern half of Florida is much more like Boston than Little Rock, whereas the northern half is more like Little Rock than Boston. Even if the northern Floridians wanted to secede, they would not be able to get the southern Floridians to take them seriously.

To illustrate the difference between the two Floridas, this is what someone from north Florida looks like.

No, I'm not making that shit up. He's attending the Redneck Olympics at Lakeland Motorsports Park's Mud Hole -- and no, I'm not making that up either -- which is totally north Florida shit.

This is what people in south Florida look like.

South Florida, especially Miami, is populated largely by people who are beautiful and dumb who spend more time on their bodies than anything else. Think Jersey Shore year round. Not exactly a red-state culture.

tatupu70 says

thomaswong.1986 says

from where are you going to lift all boats... where does the money come from.. higher revenues ? how can that be when your not selling more products due to higher costs ? This thinking ended badly as highly unionized companies crashed and burned in the late 70s.

Thomas--it's pretty simple really. Instead of all the money going to the owners, it would go to the workers. That's one of the main problems with our economy right now--capital is rewarded much more than labor. That creates wealth disparity.

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Capital creates wealth for everyone. Saving money and letting banks lend out the money creates capital which allows people to borrow (reasonably) and start up new ventures or businesses or even ideas. Or better yet companies can reinvest their capital into R&D, workers, owners, and etc.

Wealth disparity is created by a phone economy which is what we have now. Fo example, for one to be rich someone has to already have money to invest in because assets (stocks, bonds, houses and etc) go up in value due to QE's or easy money policies. But the problem is most american's cannot buy these assets as they're tapped out from rising prices and higher costs of living. So the wealth gap increases as those with money can invest in assets while those who work struggle.

People like you believe unions should have the power to demand price increases but what you don't realize is that it's causing more harm than good. If I own a business and hire you for a job that's worth $5 I can't hire you because minimum wage states you must be paid at least $8 (soon to be $9). But even then, if I do have a job opening that was what I believe was worth $9 and do hire you, the only way I would increase your wage is if you increased your production output or value (do more work or know how to do more).

If you did more or produced more then you in effect lower my cost as a owner and I would be obligated to pay you more in doing so. But if the cost of living increase due to QE's and easy money printing I am not going to give you a raise, in fact if I am forced to give you a raise I am just going to lay you off, or convert you to part time or have you do more work to get my money's worth all of which is what occurs daily.

Unions only make matters worst and I expect the cost of living to increase even more in California thanks to the new minimum wage law increases, topped off with constant flow of QE.

edvard2 says

foxmannumber1 says

We have the world's strongest military to ensure the dollar stays the world's strongest currency.

The military has nuttin' to do with currency.

Technically it does.

bob2356 says

thomaswong.1986 says

there is a myth that southern states have inbreeding.

You've obviously never travelled in rural Georgia or Tennessee then. Family tree no branches.

a handful of people well under 1% compared to the massive inbreeding 20-30-50% on national scale ?

spydah_hh says

People like you believe unions should have the power to demand price increases but what you don't realize is that it's causing more harm than good. If I own a business and hire you for a job that's worth $5 I can't hire you because minimum wage states you must be paid at least $8 (soon to be $9). But even then, if I do have a job opening that was what I believe was worth $9 and do hire you, the only way I would increase your wage is if you increased your production output or value (do more work or know how to do more).

Pay them YOUR money or they get the thugs sent after you...and even their crony's in Congress.

thomaswong.1986 says

spydah_hh says

People like you believe unions should have the power to demand price increases but what you don't realize is that it's causing more harm than good. If I own a business and hire you for a job that's worth $5 I can't hire you because minimum wage states you must be paid at least $8 (soon to be $9). But even then, if I do have a job opening that was what I believe was worth $9 and do hire you, the only way I would increase your wage is if you increased your production output or value (do more work or know how to do more).

Pay them YOUR money or they get the thugs sent after you...and even their crony's in Congress.

Lol, sad but true...

foxmannumber1 says

The average black American IQ is 85. The average White American IQ is 100.

15% difference in IQs is an astronomical difference, especially over the course of human history. think 15% in annual interest for the last 2M years of human evolution.

for those who are not familiar with exponential functions, this example will illustrate how powerful exponential functions are. if someone invested $1 during the Roman empire at 3% annually, that person would have had all the money in the world today.

this is why blacks have never invented anything useful beside boats, spears and peanut butter and Africa is forever doomed. (don't bother sending money to little Tanisha's you see on TV), it would make zero difference.

inbreeding actually isn't that big of a deal in reality. the maths show that marrying your cousins while increases the chance of birth defects, it doesn't mean much since the chance remains extremely low. for example, going from %0.0025 to %0.005 while doubles the chance, it still means nothing.

environmental factors are the deciding factor in human intelligence. groups living in favorable climates, fertile, disease-free lands are more naturally selected for their intelligence than groups living in hostile environments (i.e malaria) where physical strengths and resistances to diseases trump everything else. evolution happens randomly but also equally among groups. given the same period, if one group advances in one area it will fall behind in other area in relative to other groups. in other words, the stronger a person is, the less intelligent he is and vice versa.

Dan8267 says

South Florida, especially Miami, is populated largely by people who are beautiful and dumb who spend more time on their bodies than anything else.

Miami is inhabited by Cubans and other undesirable non white hispanics. White people have largely fled Miami due to this demographic change.

The good looking and rich whites that are still in Miami stay far away from the more criminal brown people and have no interaction with them.

foxmannumber1 says

Dan8267 says

South Florida, especially Miami, is populated largely by people who are beautiful and dumb who spend more time on their bodies than anything else.

Miami is inhabited by Cubans and other undesirable non white hispanics. White people have largely fled Miami due to this demographic change.

The good looking and rich whites that are still in Miami stay far away from the more criminal brown people and have no interaction with them.

You're a real charmer.

spydah_hh says

Capital creates wealth for everyone. Saving money and letting banks lend out the money creates capital which allows people to borrow (reasonably) and start up new ventures or businesses or even ideas. Or better yet companies can reinvest their capital into R&D, workers, owners, and etc.

Oh, no. Not any supply creates its own demand guy. Hasn't the supply side cult given up yet? Capital does NOT create jobs. For god's sake, look at the current situation--the country is awash in money. Interest rates are ridiculously low. Where are the jobs??

spydah_hh says

Wealth disparity is created by a phone economy which is what we have now. Fo example, for one to be rich someone has to already have money to invest in because assets (stocks, bonds, houses and etc) go up in value due to QE's or easy money policies. But the problem is most american's cannot buy these assets as they're tapped out from rising prices and higher costs of living. So the wealth gap increases as those with money can invest in assets while those who work struggle.

You're actually almost on the right track there. The wealth gap increases because those with the capital are getting rewarded over those who only have their own labor to offer. The way to fix that is to reward labor over capital.

spydah_hh says

People like you believe unions should have the power to demand price increases but what you don't realize is that it's causing more harm than good. If I own a business and hire you for a job that's worth $5 I can't hire you because minimum wage states you must be paid at least $8 (soon to be $9). But even then, if I do have a job opening that was what I believe was worth $9 and do hire you, the only way I would increase your wage is if you increased your production output or value (do more work or know how to do more).

First--unions don't affect prices. They bargain for wage and benefits. Second--how do you determine what a job is worth? Is it the added value that the job creates? The added value minus some % that goes to the owner?

spydah_hh says

If you did more or produced more then you in effect lower my cost as a owner and I would be obligated to pay you more in doing so. But if the cost of living increase due to QE's and easy money printing I am not going to give you a raise, in fact if I am forced to give you a raise I am just going to lay you off, or convert you to part time or have you do more work to get my money's worth all of which is what occurs daily.

You really don't get it. In the real world, people are paid based on their negotiating power and how well they wield it. In any event, if the cost of living increases based on easy money, that implies that you should be raising your prices.

spydah_hh says

Unions only make matters worst and I expect the cost of living to increase even more in California thanks to the new minimum wage law increases, topped off with constant flow of QE

History disagrees with you. The time period when unions were strong was a great period in US economic history.

Bigsby says

You're a real charmer.

The 2010 census states that Monterey CA has 777(.5% total) black people. You actively choose to live in a super majority white place, effectively rejecting all other races as your neighbors. If the percentage of black people went up, the high quality life currently enjoyed in Monterey would degrade proportionately.

Your actions say the same thing as I do. The whites that trump diversity as being desirable have insulated themselves against Non Asian Minorities and since they have no real life experiences with non whites, they do not know how much worse nonwhites are.