patrick.net

Bellingham Bill says

No, just like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Holland.

The happiest and most wealthy countries on the planet.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_international_investment_position_per_capita

They're real-world examples of how "Robin Hood" redistribution works -- better than what we're doing at least.

Actually, Sweden is cutting back on their welfare because it's becoming too expensive and they can't afford it. Sweden became a very rich country decades ago when they followed more free market principles but then fell into the European style welfare mentality, which hurt them. Now, they're going back to how they got so rich before and away from a being a nanny state.

Oops, if you like your doctor....
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579171710423780446?mobile=y

But but but
But moron idiot rushbot teabag george bush

Seems like the NSA scandals and the obamacare roll out have accomplished what benghazi, IRS and fast and furious did not

Timber.......
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

If you like your poll you can keep your poll

smaulgld says

Oops, if you like your doctor....

18

smaulgld says

If you like your poll you can keep your poll

19

From Whitehouse.gov
Reality Check
http://m.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/3
Here the myth is dispelled
If you like your plan .....

AverageBear says

So when I saw that Obamacare was passed under a HUGE cloud of suspicion, not
having the support of any Republicans, and knowing it would spend HUGE amounts
of money we didn't have on those that won't pay enough into it, I have a problem
with it..

All the rest of your endless and pointless post is baseless drivel to me, and I really could not care any less about your opinions or political point of view. I've had the unfortunate pleasure of reading your BS thoughts that your brain managed to conjure up, albeit sporadically and without forethought, that you put out here for everybody to see.

So a republican/right wing based think tank named the Heritage Foundation came up with what we know as the PPACA, and it was even submitted in legislation by no less than(republican) Newt Gingrich(Speaker of the House) in 1993. And you right wingers hate it. And it was 'crammed down your throat'. Morons.

So, to recap, I don't give a shit what you think about me, life, or politics in general, and you are the very last poster that should throw stones or try and cast judgement of anybody or anything considering the constant rate of BS that you bore us with.

You'll get no respect or tolerance from me because you're not worthy of either.

Vicente says

Mulligan republicans?

You know how republicans/right wingers never like to admit to their mistakes or own up to their shortcomings, and notice how they don't like to admit voting for GW Bush when he did something stupid?

The term is based upon a friend of my parents that would use a mulligan to do-over a golf shot that he didn't like or muffed, on practically every hole and sometimes 2-3 times. Then, if the ball was 1' from the hole it was a "gimme", but that 1' also went up to 2' too. But, if he shot a 5 on a par 3, he would write down a 3 on his scorecard because "that's what he normally shoots"(although nobody ever witnessed it). And yes, he was a die-hard republican.

If some repuiblicans don't like the consequences of their actions or words, they just rewrite history and reality(and will go to great lengths to do it) and pretend those things that they advocated for, never happened. Hence, the term mulligan republicans.

AverageBear says

So when I saw that Obamacare was passed under a HUGE cloud of suspicion, not having the support of any Republicans, and knowing it would spend HUGE amounts of money we didn't have on those that won't pay enough into it, I have a problem with it..

It wouldn't have mattered if Obama had instead come up with a new plan where all taxes were cut, all social services were stopped, and pipelines carrying crude would suddenly be allowed to traverse every single national park in the country: Republicans would have been against that too, and even if it were like I mentioned above- a seeming Republican fantasy bill- they would have balked at it simply because it wasn't THEIR idea.

So just because Republicans were against the ACA doesn't mean they had a legit reason to make that call. They made that call for nothing other than their own political concerns and nothing more.

Let's see how many stupid pictures we can post to try and prove a point we fail to make...

Bellingham Bill says

No, just like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Holland.

The happiest and most wealthy countries on the planet.

Bill,

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I'd like to see the immigration rates/#'s for these countries. I'm betting they don't have the illegal immigration problem that we have here in the US. (I would also bet their border and immigration policies are much stricter, but you'd never hear that part of the argument)...There's also the factor of culture that can't be compared. Tiny countries w/ tiny GDPs may be the 'toast of the single-payer model' crowd... But to me, it's apples to oranges.

sbh says

AverageBear says

the other deadbeat

I love it when Repubbies say the word "deadbeat" as if they weren't looking in the mirror.

^^^ = Seeing the hatred when trying to project hatred is most amusing.

Tell me, do you think Sebelius has done a good job, or should she be fired for her 'work'?

Now that we know Obama lied to us 3 years ago, would you trust him now?

AverageBear says

Bill,

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I'd like to see the immigration rates/#'s for these countries. I'm betting they don't have the illegal immigration problem that we have here in the US. (I would also bet their border and immigration policies are much stricter, but you'd never hear that part of the argument)...There's also the factor of culture that can't be compared. Tiny countries w/ tiny GDPs may be the 'toast of the single-payer model' crowd... But to me, it's apples to oranges.

I think you'd be shocked to know what folks in the US could afford if the top 1% weren't taking all of the money. Lots of programs that can't work under current conditions will work swimmingly under the conditions in Sweden.

tatupu70 says

I think you'd be shocked to know what folks in the US could afford if the top 1% weren't taking all of the money. Lots of programs that can't work under current conditions will work swimmingly under the conditions in Sweden.

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they leave?

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they leave?

It would open up opportunity for new folks.

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with
them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they
leave?

They pay a tax on their income regardless if they leave or not.

If they renounce their citizenship, they pay a tax on their net worth.

Either way, that works just fine.

tatupu70 says

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they leave?

It would open up opportunity for new folks.

Money is just an imaginary construct, useful for determining ownership of resources and providing incentive for people to do work. If the oligarch leaves and takes all his money with him, he's taken himself out of the economy, so all debt to him is finished. The citizens of said economy must no longer spend time compensating him for his accumulated trade resources. By leaving, he's left land open to be bought by other interests, left consumables unconsumed, and services unserved. It's a net win for society in general.

It would be like if your neighbor held half a million dollars of your IOUs, meaning you would have to pay him back in labor for most of your life. And suppose he charged interest on this as well, such that you could never get ahead, leaving you forever in his debt.
Now let's say his plane goes down Over the Atlantic and he's lost, leaving no heirs. Are you helped or hurt by his demise?
Easy.

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them

They can take their fucking money. We'll print more.

The issue with the 1% is the rents their pulling out of the middle class, via real estate, TBTF, healthcare, and energy.

if we can't attack the rents directly (via socialism) we can certainly tax them directly.

You don't like it, fuck off to Galt's Gulch or whatever libertopia you can find.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2012#table1

Top 1% is clearing 20% of the income, one out of 100 making one out of 5 dollars.

Top 5% is clearing 33% of the income, one out of 20 making one out of 3 dollars.

This money isn't coming from the bottom of the sea, but out of the backs of the middle class.

Unsustainable.

My preferred fix is simply eliminating the rents in real estate. It's our biggest line-item life expense and the locus of the injustice, and without fixing it we can't fix anything, since the real estate market is SO tilted against the little guy now, the worst it's ever been IMO.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/hedge-funds-crowd-first-time-buyers-out-housing-market

Speaks for itself.

edvard2 says

and even if it were like I mentioned above- a seeming Republican fantasy bill- they would have balked at it simply because it wasn't THEIR idea.

That is 100% true in most cases. Similarly no matter what Obama does, brainwashed democrats will defend it with the notion that George Bush was worse.

Once you become a Democrat or a Republican its difficult to look at things objectively.

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them,

How does say a real estate mogul "take their money" and leave?

They can sell all their properties and deprive themselves of future revenue and inheritance. Then they have a lump sum which gets taxed. Now you have to settle in a new country, make new contacts, develop business, learn how to get the right permits and start again....

I'm just not seeing this work on any massive scale like people imply.

Most of the "rich people will leave" guff is like my 5-year old threatening to run away from home. It's fantasy not reality.

Meanwhile all that property you sold is still in America, under new management who is little different from the old one. Rich people often suffer under the delusion they are indispensable.

"The graveyards are full of indispensable men." - Charles de Gaulle

egads101 says

Nobody gives a fuck what your retarded georgecocksuckingcult thnks.

True!

smaulgld says

If you like your plan .....

20

This one has even more affirmative clips "We will keep this promise... if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" than the Atlantic magazine video

http://www.youtube.com/embed/wfl55GgHr5E

No change to my plan.

smaulgld says

if you like your plan, you can keep your plan"

21

smaulgld says

That is 100% true in most cases. Similarly no matter what Obama does, brainwashed democrats will defend it with the notion that George Bush was worse.

Except in the case as of now, the GOP has been far more successful at brainwashing their constituents, who are seemingly unable to form their own opinions and get them from their little right-winger radio shows versus most Democrats, who actually have the ability to come up with logical discussion... which of course irritates the right into saying the same crap about communism or some other un-original response.

No change to my plan either. Plus another Obamacare rebate this year.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

Next thing I know Michelle Obama was kicking in the kitchen window while wearing a DEATH PANEL T-shirt.

GodDAMN same thing happened to me.

Except Michelle ravished me on the kitchen table before choppering out.

She likes it when her clitoris is larger and more massive than their puny white puds. It's a power trip, but saves the occasional death conscript from the pitch fork.

Ceffer says

She likes it when her clitoris is larger

I never did a Google Image Search for "giant clitoris" before. Whoa!

No change to my plan, but the employer mandate doesn't kick in until next year so I really wasn't expecting to see any change for this year.

tatupu70 says

I think you'd be shocked to know what folks in the US could afford if the top 1% weren't taking all of the money. Lots of programs that can't work under current conditions will work swimmingly under the conditions in Sweden.

Tatupu,

Lots of programs work swimmingly well in Sweden because nobody wants to go to Sweden to live; or those that aren't willing to obey the law, and pay their taxes, ie become naturalized citizens. I've never been to Sweden, and I'm sure it's a fine place to visit, but none of the poor, uneducated people on this planet are saying "Hmmmmm, you know, my dream is to get my family to Sweden. That's the best place on earth. Honey, get your sweaters, we are going to sneak up the Alps and get us some free shit.".... Apples and oranges.

Obama now lying about his lies. "Period". You couldn't make this shit up...

"That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health-care plan, you'll be able to keep your health-care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what." – President Obama, speech to the American Medical Association, June 15, 2009, during the debate over health insurance reform.

....."And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you. It hasn't happened yet. It won't happen in the future." – Obama, remarks in Portland, April 1, 2010, after the bill was signed into law.

Washington Post's "Fact Checker" give Obama 4 Pinocchios on this one....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/

I see two possible scenarios:

1. Obama: "I admit I lied about keeping your plan".

OMG!!!!!! DID YOU HEAR THAT???? HE ADMITTED HE LIED!!!!! HE'S A LYING LIAR, THAT'S WHAT HE IS. BENGHAZI!!!!!! DEATH PANELS!!!!!!!!! WELFARE STATE!!!!!!!!!!111

2. Obama: "I didn't lie"

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW HE LIED ABOUT LYING!!!!!!!!!! HE'S A DOUBLE LIAR!!!!!! BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!BENGHAZI!!!!!!!! BENGHAAAAZZZIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!

AverageBear says

Lots of programs work swimmingly well in Sweden because nobody wants to go to Sweden to live; or those that aren't willing to obey the law, and pay their taxes, ie become naturalized citizens. I've never been to Sweden, and I'm sure it's a fine place to visit, but none of the poor, uneducated people on this planet are saying "Hmmmmm, you know, my dream is to get my family to Sweden. That's the best place on earth. Honey, get your sweaters, we are going to sneak up the Alps and get us some free shit.".... Apples and oranges.

Please elaborate--you think immigration is the cause of our health care woes?

No change to my plan.

Interestingly, I've had discussions with people who say that ACA was not ambitious enough in that it did not do much to control costs.

Now, apparently there was to be a disruptive force with ACA, but there was to be no disruption?

The issue apparently, that if you wanted to keep your shitty plan, Obama should have exercised some Socialist strength and forced private insurers to keep you in them, somehow.

We should have a plan that makes everything better, inconveniences no one, costs nothing and cures the heartbreak of psoriasis.

Stupid Obama.

sbh says

Tell me, do you think Sebelius has done a good job, or should she be fired for her 'work'?

Now that we know Obama lied to us 3 years ago, would you trust him now?

This is a typical example of how the conservative brain struggles to work: I recall to you how your guys proudly stood up as deadbeats to the nation and their party.......your brain registers "Sebelius". Why didn't you say "Benghazi" or something equally unrelated. Amazing.

If I say "shoehorn" can you incisively balance a ball on your nose?

This is a typical example of how the liberal brain struggles to work: I ask a simple question, and get name-calling, playing the blame-game, and changing the subject (Benghazi). Amazing.

- sbh, do you think Sebelius did a good job of rolling out Obamacare? After all, the question does have much in common w/ the name, and creation of this topic.

- sbh, do you think Obama lied to us 3 years ago, or was at least deceitful, when he said you can keep your doctor, and healthplan?