patrick.net

Homeboy says

The far more important question is: since they've been saying for 4 years that there will be minimum standards of coverage for health insurance policies, how is it that you weren't aware of that fact?

Because someone emphatically stated 20+ times and in the state of the union address otherwise.

If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period

upisdown says

Teabag morons wear their hatred and stupidity proudly, but not the glibertopians/mulligan republicans as they like to cloud it in some tax cut-preferred and deserving types of legislation dogma. Both types are equally ridiculous and annoying, but at least with the teabag ones you absolutely know not to take your eyes off of them.

Mulligan republicans?

smaulgld says

Homeboy says

The far more important question is: since they've been saying for 4 years that there will be minimum standards of coverage for health insurance policies, how is it that you weren't aware of that fact?

Because someone emphatically stated 20+ times and in the state of the union address otherwise.

If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period

Wow, then you really are an idiot.

AverageBear says

knowing it would spend HUGE amounts of money we didn't have

What you think you know isn't actually reality.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GINIALLRH

We actually "have" the money for the "ObamaCare" subsidies to the middle class and below. We just have to raise taxes a bit to get it.

As for no Republican support, they had plenty of input in the process -- getting dozens of amendments into the bill -- but their refusal to sign off on the result was simply politics, just like their refusal (to a man) in 1993 to go along with the Clinton tax raises. They certainly took credit for the resulting balanced budgets when they arrived though!

This was a bill GWB coulda passed, save for the part about jacking up taxes on the rich 3.8 pp this year. Funding the subsidies that make the mandate possible is what torpedoed the Gingrich alternative to "HillaryCare", too.

That's what this "repeal and replace" song and dance is all about, the rich trying to snake out of the higher tax burdens PPACA is slapping on them.

90% of the problem in this country is simply the rich taking too much out of the middle classes, and our shitty healthcare system is a large part of that.

List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure(PPP)_per_capita

PPACA doesn't solve anything (on the cost side) but like SSA (which started a lot smaller than it is now) it's the camels nose in the tent of the private insurance market.

AverageBear says

Just like Greece, and some of the other deadbeat southern European nations

No, just like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Holland.

The happiest and most wealthy countries on the planet.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_international_investment_position_per_capita

They're real-world examples of how "Robin Hood" redistribution works -- better than what we're doing at least.

And also the benefits of having your own currency and maintaing trade surpluses by running a weak, er "competitive" currency regime.

And also small, homogenous nation-states that actually give a shit about their fellow citizens.

"Got mine fuck you" and "Let 'em die!" isn't part of their political vocabulary.

Idiot and moron!

for believing the repeated words of the president
"If you like your plan, you can keep it PERIOD."

I don't understand the Swedes.

Isn't it better to label anything left-leaning, or even moderate, as outright communism, and then rise above it all, on a flying carpet of false equivalence, and say both the right and the left are petty extremists?

Doesn't this give me an out, or am I missing something?

smaulgld says

Idiot and moron!

You're also a douche.

Fairly objective recap of obama care
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21588929-barack-obamas-supporters-are-worried-he-terrible-manager-whoops?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/whoops

some Rushbot said

So adult of you....

You don't know the meaning of the word. I have cut and pasted all the times you have repeated the same right-wing talking point, JUST IN THIS THREAD. Would it surprise you to learn that you have done it 17 times so far, in 17 separate posts?

Adults do not respond to arguments by merely repeating the same sentence over and over. That is what children do. Not only are you an idiot, but you are a childish idiot, and a troll. I am merely stating a fact. That is an accurate assessment of you.

1. -12 million people WON'T be able to keep their healthcare even though in the State of Union Obama said they could

2. Obamacare hits at integrity (you can keep your plan!)

3. "IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH CARE PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOU PLAN"- Barrack Obama countless times

4. Twenty -three times from the Head of Obama Care
If you like your plan you can keep your plan

5. If you like your plan... you can keep your plan

6. If you like your plan ...

7. If you like your plan...

8. If you like your plan..

9. If you like your plan....

10. "If YOU like YOUR plan you can keep YOUR plan."

11. Gives Obama's statement 4 Pinocchios

12. Do you think he lied, and does it matter?

13. Obama vows repeatedly you can keep your doctor

14. If you like your lies, you can keep your lies, Period.

15. If you like your identity, you can keep you identity, period. (well maybe most people can)

16. If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period

17. "If you like your plan, you can keep it PERIOD."

Call it Crazy says

You're the IDIOT here.. You're making a reference that I made those 17 points, but guess what.... It wasn't me...

Eh, whatever. You're both mindless Rushbots. Might as well be the same guy.

Call it Crazy says

So adult of you....

Call it Crazy says

Talk about an Idiot and a troll, you don't even know who you're replying to....

That explains why you think Obamacare is so wonderful... those few brain cells that you have aren't hitting on all cylinders today...

So... this is you being "adult"? LOFL. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Call it Crazy says

Must be as fried as that turkey in your avatar!!!

It's a duck.

Bellingham Bill says

No, just like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Holland.

The happiest and most wealthy countries on the planet.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_international_investment_position_per_capita

They're real-world examples of how "Robin Hood" redistribution works -- better than what we're doing at least.

Actually, Sweden is cutting back on their welfare because it's becoming too expensive and they can't afford it. Sweden became a very rich country decades ago when they followed more free market principles but then fell into the European style welfare mentality, which hurt them. Now, they're going back to how they got so rich before and away from a being a nanny state.

Oops, if you like your doctor....
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579171710423780446?mobile=y

But but but
But moron idiot rushbot teabag george bush

Seems like the NSA scandals and the obamacare roll out have accomplished what benghazi, IRS and fast and furious did not

Timber.......
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

If you like your poll you can keep your poll

smaulgld says

Oops, if you like your doctor....

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smaulgld says

If you like your poll you can keep your poll

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From Whitehouse.gov
Reality Check
http://m.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/3
Here the myth is dispelled
If you like your plan .....

AverageBear says

So when I saw that Obamacare was passed under a HUGE cloud of suspicion, not
having the support of any Republicans, and knowing it would spend HUGE amounts
of money we didn't have on those that won't pay enough into it, I have a problem
with it..

All the rest of your endless and pointless post is baseless drivel to me, and I really could not care any less about your opinions or political point of view. I've had the unfortunate pleasure of reading your BS thoughts that your brain managed to conjure up, albeit sporadically and without forethought, that you put out here for everybody to see.

So a republican/right wing based think tank named the Heritage Foundation came up with what we know as the PPACA, and it was even submitted in legislation by no less than(republican) Newt Gingrich(Speaker of the House) in 1993. And you right wingers hate it. And it was 'crammed down your throat'. Morons.

So, to recap, I don't give a shit what you think about me, life, or politics in general, and you are the very last poster that should throw stones or try and cast judgement of anybody or anything considering the constant rate of BS that you bore us with.

You'll get no respect or tolerance from me because you're not worthy of either.

Vicente says

Mulligan republicans?

You know how republicans/right wingers never like to admit to their mistakes or own up to their shortcomings, and notice how they don't like to admit voting for GW Bush when he did something stupid?

The term is based upon a friend of my parents that would use a mulligan to do-over a golf shot that he didn't like or muffed, on practically every hole and sometimes 2-3 times. Then, if the ball was 1' from the hole it was a "gimme", but that 1' also went up to 2' too. But, if he shot a 5 on a par 3, he would write down a 3 on his scorecard because "that's what he normally shoots"(although nobody ever witnessed it). And yes, he was a die-hard republican.

If some repuiblicans don't like the consequences of their actions or words, they just rewrite history and reality(and will go to great lengths to do it) and pretend those things that they advocated for, never happened. Hence, the term mulligan republicans.

AverageBear says

So when I saw that Obamacare was passed under a HUGE cloud of suspicion, not having the support of any Republicans, and knowing it would spend HUGE amounts of money we didn't have on those that won't pay enough into it, I have a problem with it..

It wouldn't have mattered if Obama had instead come up with a new plan where all taxes were cut, all social services were stopped, and pipelines carrying crude would suddenly be allowed to traverse every single national park in the country: Republicans would have been against that too, and even if it were like I mentioned above- a seeming Republican fantasy bill- they would have balked at it simply because it wasn't THEIR idea.

So just because Republicans were against the ACA doesn't mean they had a legit reason to make that call. They made that call for nothing other than their own political concerns and nothing more.

Let's see how many stupid pictures we can post to try and prove a point we fail to make...

Bellingham Bill says

No, just like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Holland.

The happiest and most wealthy countries on the planet.

Bill,

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I'd like to see the immigration rates/#'s for these countries. I'm betting they don't have the illegal immigration problem that we have here in the US. (I would also bet their border and immigration policies are much stricter, but you'd never hear that part of the argument)...There's also the factor of culture that can't be compared. Tiny countries w/ tiny GDPs may be the 'toast of the single-payer model' crowd... But to me, it's apples to oranges.

sbh says

AverageBear says

the other deadbeat

I love it when Repubbies say the word "deadbeat" as if they weren't looking in the mirror.

^^^ = Seeing the hatred when trying to project hatred is most amusing.

Tell me, do you think Sebelius has done a good job, or should she be fired for her 'work'?

Now that we know Obama lied to us 3 years ago, would you trust him now?

AverageBear says

Bill,

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I'd like to see the immigration rates/#'s for these countries. I'm betting they don't have the illegal immigration problem that we have here in the US. (I would also bet their border and immigration policies are much stricter, but you'd never hear that part of the argument)...There's also the factor of culture that can't be compared. Tiny countries w/ tiny GDPs may be the 'toast of the single-payer model' crowd... But to me, it's apples to oranges.

I think you'd be shocked to know what folks in the US could afford if the top 1% weren't taking all of the money. Lots of programs that can't work under current conditions will work swimmingly under the conditions in Sweden.

tatupu70 says

I think you'd be shocked to know what folks in the US could afford if the top 1% weren't taking all of the money. Lots of programs that can't work under current conditions will work swimmingly under the conditions in Sweden.

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they leave?

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they leave?

It would open up opportunity for new folks.

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with
them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they
leave?

They pay a tax on their income regardless if they leave or not.

If they renounce their citizenship, they pay a tax on their net worth.

Either way, that works just fine.

tatupu70 says

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them, just like they are fleeing France. How does that help us when they leave?

It would open up opportunity for new folks.

Money is just an imaginary construct, useful for determining ownership of resources and providing incentive for people to do work. If the oligarch leaves and takes all his money with him, he's taken himself out of the economy, so all debt to him is finished. The citizens of said economy must no longer spend time compensating him for his accumulated trade resources. By leaving, he's left land open to be bought by other interests, left consumables unconsumed, and services unserved. It's a net win for society in general.

It would be like if your neighbor held half a million dollars of your IOUs, meaning you would have to pay him back in labor for most of your life. And suppose he charged interest on this as well, such that you could never get ahead, leaving you forever in his debt.
Now let's say his plane goes down Over the Atlantic and he's lost, leaving no heirs. Are you helped or hurt by his demise?
Easy.

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them

They can take their fucking money. We'll print more.

The issue with the 1% is the rents their pulling out of the middle class, via real estate, TBTF, healthcare, and energy.

if we can't attack the rents directly (via socialism) we can certainly tax them directly.

You don't like it, fuck off to Galt's Gulch or whatever libertopia you can find.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2012#table1

Top 1% is clearing 20% of the income, one out of 100 making one out of 5 dollars.

Top 5% is clearing 33% of the income, one out of 20 making one out of 3 dollars.

This money isn't coming from the bottom of the sea, but out of the backs of the middle class.

Unsustainable.

My preferred fix is simply eliminating the rents in real estate. It's our biggest line-item life expense and the locus of the injustice, and without fixing it we can't fix anything, since the real estate market is SO tilted against the little guy now, the worst it's ever been IMO.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/hedge-funds-crowd-first-time-buyers-out-housing-market

Speaks for itself.

edvard2 says

and even if it were like I mentioned above- a seeming Republican fantasy bill- they would have balked at it simply because it wasn't THEIR idea.

That is 100% true in most cases. Similarly no matter what Obama does, brainwashed democrats will defend it with the notion that George Bush was worse.

Once you become a Democrat or a Republican its difficult to look at things objectively.

zzyzzx says

As opposed to the top 1% leaving the country and taking their money with them,

How does say a real estate mogul "take their money" and leave?

They can sell all their properties and deprive themselves of future revenue and inheritance. Then they have a lump sum which gets taxed. Now you have to settle in a new country, make new contacts, develop business, learn how to get the right permits and start again....

I'm just not seeing this work on any massive scale like people imply.

Most of the "rich people will leave" guff is like my 5-year old threatening to run away from home. It's fantasy not reality.

Meanwhile all that property you sold is still in America, under new management who is little different from the old one. Rich people often suffer under the delusion they are indispensable.

"The graveyards are full of indispensable men." - Charles de Gaulle

egads101 says

Nobody gives a fuck what your retarded georgecocksuckingcult thnks.

True!

smaulgld says

If you like your plan .....

20

This one has even more affirmative clips "We will keep this promise... if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" than the Atlantic magazine video

http://www.youtube.com/embed/wfl55GgHr5E

No change to my plan.

smaulgld says

if you like your plan, you can keep your plan"

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