patrick.net

Vicente says

I know you may find this hard to believe, but people LIE and slip through employment screening all the time. Might be all kinds of people you encounter in your daily life.

Vic, I know what you mean. Our president totally fits your description. HAHAHAAA....

AverageBear says

Vic, I know what you mean. Our president totally fits your description.

Oh you're a BIRTHER, never mind.

AverageBear says

bob2356 says

Do you seriously believe convicted felons don't work at insurance companies that have exactly the same information?

Get a grip.

What's your point? Just because ex-cons wind up at insurance agencies, it's OK for them to wind up as one of Obamacare's navigators? That you are OK w/ your gov't not caring about who handles the most intimate data you could ever possess? Is this the best your logic can come up with? If so, God help you.

Where's your outrage at all the other places ex cons can work that handle personal information? Why does is suddenly only bother you when it's obamacare? You don't think "the most intimate data you could ever possess" can't be obtained in a heartbeat at any time? Get a grip. If it's on a computer somewhere it's not secure already.

Ummm.. Maybe you need it to be explained multiple times, or in simpler terms for you to understand... Obamacare demands that you need health insurance, under their rules and requirements. So stringent, that Obama doesn't give a fuck if your previous plan was good enough. Sooo, they tell that once your plan doesn't qualify, or isn't being renewed, you are forced to use a website that doesnt work. Then if by small miracle you do enroll, your data can fall into the hands of criminals THAT THEY HIRED. They force you into buying something 'in their store', but say they aren't responsible for the people they hire? That is a fuckin' weak excuse. You must have such low standards, or just can't grasp how bad Obamacare was conceived and deployed.... It seems you are OK with how inept Obama's 'solution' is. I am not.....

Vicente says

AverageBear says

Vic, I know what you mean. Our president totally fits your description.

Oh you're a BIRTHER, never mind.

.....Oh, you are projecting again. Never mind..

bob2356 says

Where's your outrage at all the other places ex cons can work that handle personal information? Why does is suddenly only bother you when it's obamacare? You don't think "the most intimate data you could ever possess" can't be obtained in a heartbeat at any time? Get a grip. If it's on a computer somewhere it's not secure already.

The business sector was using convicted felons to process credit card transactions and other "personal" and "risky" information for a long time. I guess that's okay, because they were paying a low wage and passing the savings on to you, the customer!.

If it's only getting insurance to sick or poor, it's too much! Fuck the sick and poor...that's in the bible!

sbh says

AverageBear says

you are projecting again

You need to get some new material.

No. You need to stop projecting. I guess you'll never shake that monkey off your back. One can only hope, eh?

Here's a message from Democrats, to those that voted for Obama.. Something to ponder in Nov '14, if you were unfortunate to lose your insurance between now and then....

....."Okay, we lied about you being able to keep your present coverage, and we lied about you being able to choose your own doctor, and we lied about you being able to see specialists without referrals, and we lied about premiums not going up, and we lied about not imposing taxes, and we lied about the act paying for itself, and we lied about the website being ready, and we lied about instituting mandates, and we lied about the penalties, and we lied about the deadlines, and we lied about...well, just about everything. Now, what are you going to do about it?".......

Pot calling the kettle black?

Republican lies:

"Obamacare is socialized medicine"
"There will be death panels"
"We had the best healthcare system in the world before Obamacare"
"There will be new taxes on the working class"
"A worker who makes $30,000 will have to pay $15,000 for insurance" - Paul Rand
"Obamacare is killing jobs"
"There will be healthcare rationing"
"Obama made himself exempt from his own law"

Speaking of lies, at least two of the "Democrat lies" cited in Average Bear's post are not that at all; they are REPUBLICAN lies.

There is no evidence that the average premium is going up, especially after you take subsidies into account. Some might go up; others might go down, but to say "Premiums are going up" is a lie.

And the assertion that the act doesn't pay for itself is pure bullshit. The CBO estimates it will REDUCE the deficit, not increase it.

sbh says

AverageBear says

You need to stop projecting

No, seriously, you need to be able to formulate some concept beyond this vapid non-response.

No, seriously. You need to be able to stop portraying shit that you imagine I'd say, or imagine how I'd think. That shit is for 8th graders. Really. Making jokes like A-FUCK (which i enjoy) is one thing, but when you lean on your jokes/projections to back an argument, it makes you look like...... a child in the 8th grade.

I'll stop my 'vapid' responses in callling you out on projecting when, well, you stop projecting.

Projecting me as a racist/redneck/welfare-recipient/misogynist/anti-semite? Ah, no. I'm just a fiscal conservative, and more of a social independent.

So keep projecting, and I'll keep calling you out on it.

Some gems you've recently 'projected'. 'Nuf said....

- “Remember how hard it is for you to swallow the fiscal immaturity of your party? You so want to be like Greece and default on your bills!”

- “What also really burns you up is that you can't get much from it. Is it so frustrating that so many Americans just deal with it instead of "getting down and hating someone about it"?”

• Pro-choice voter: "I'm pro-choice."
Pro-life voter #1: "Let's ask your mother if she wishes she had aborted you, asshole."
Pro-life voter #2: "Yeah, asshole."
Pro-choice voter: "Why would you bother? Her opinion doesn't count anyway."
Pro-life voter #2: "Hey, #1, go ahead and ask the bitch anyway, just keep your voice down and don't give her any ideas." (you must have been off your meds for this one....)

- The problem is Fox told me that Obamacare was forcing chicken producers

- You've just described the Tealiban foot soldier. He rises from the ranks of the undereducated white-trash Red state. He sees his cause as "grass-roots" but it's funded by the Koch brothers. He leans hard on welfare and never admits it. He's underpaid and believes it's the darkies' fault. He's living hand-to-mouth and believes it's because the Jews have fixed prices too high. Half his family is on disability because Obama has made insurance for real Americans just too damn expensive.

- Here's how to transform Detroit: move the Mason-Dixon line waaaay up north and hang up a bunch of confederate flags. What you have then is a rural GOP bible-belt success story.

AverageBear says

Then if by small miracle you do enroll, your data can fall into the hands of criminals THAT THEY HIRED. They force you into buying something 'in their store', but say they aren't responsible for the people they hire? That is a fuckin' weak excuse. You must have such low standards, or just can't grasp how bad Obamacare was conceived and deployed.... It seems you are OK with how inept Obama's 'solution' is. I am not.....

I've never been ok with aca, i guess you don't actually read people's posts, That being said your personal information falls into the hands of convicted felons who have finished serving their time every single day. WTF makes aca any different other than you are just looking for any meaningless bs rather than being able to put together reasoned arguments on the true problems.

I go away on a vacation and come back and what's new? Nuttin'. The same righty-wingers trying to wring absolutely anything they can out of " oohhh-oooohhh-oooohhh! Obama LIED!!!!! So basically the same ole' shit before I left.

Its also ironic that the blame is being put on ACA: Its NOT the ACA that's dropping its patients, but rather the INSURANCE companies. Have any of you right-wingers thought about that for just a second and thought "Gee-I guess the system we had totally sucked." Why? Because insurance companies were dropping their patients by the millions well before the passage of ACA, and back then if you got dropped... well too effin' bad because you basically were sort of shit out of luck. So now people who do in fact get dropped from the crappy plans they were on can now re-enroll into a better plan and in the majority of cases, for less.

Lastly, do you want to know why some of these stories about people now paying more versus less are popping up? Why- its because in almost all of these cases its because the people in question happen to have the misfortune of living in one of those red states where the state government out of no reason other than political ones decided to do their best to make the law as ineffective as possible, which in turn means they created a scenario where future patients will have to pay more versus other states- like California- where the enrollment and payment plan costs are lower. How completely stupid is that?

edvard2 says

Its also ironic that the blame is being put on ACA: Its NOT the ACA that's dropping its patients, but rather the INSURANCE companies.

What's ironic is that liberals who defend Obamacare like to point out that "Hey, it's not Obamacare, it's the insurance agencies fault for dropped coverage"... But guess what? What tune do the insurance companies have to dance to? That's right. The laws and regulations that Obamacare is forcing them to adhere to. Don't give me that crap that it's the fault of the insurance companies. They are doing what Obama is telling them to do. Because it's "The Law of the Land"..... And BTW, the rate of people losing their coverage since Obamacare has been enacted FAR EXCEEDS those that lost their insurance before Obamacare was enacted.

....."So now people who do in fact get dropped from the crappy plans they were on can now re-enroll into a better plan and in the majority of cases, for less.".....

Wow. Really? You really think that? Got any links/proof for that whopper?

AverageBear says

What's ironic is that liberals who defend Obamacare like to point out that "Hey, it's not Obamacare, it's the insurance agencies fault for dropped coverage"... But guess what? What tune do the insurance companies have to dance to? That's right. The laws and regulations that Obamacare is forcing them to adhere to. Don't give me that crap that it's the fault of the insurance companies. They are doing what Obama is telling them to do. Because it's "The Law of the Land"..... And BTW, the rate of people losing their coverage since Obamacare has been enacted FAR EXCEEDS those that lost their insurance before Obamacare was enacted.

Nope. Wrong once more. You did not address the fact that millions prior to Obamacare were losing their insurance and basically had zero to no recourse. By that fact alone the costs of healthcare for those affected were astronomical because the only choice they had was to pay for medical care out of pocket-aka- have NO insurance.

Again- back up the train a bit. The people who are getting their plans dropped were mainly on crappy plans to begin with. Yes- new standards were created. Minimum standards. Looking at it from a comparative perspective, this would be akin to a car failing to pass inspection because it lacked seat belts and thus needed to have those installed.

Lastly, the plans affected were actually altered AFTER the implementation of the ACA act, meaning that the plans that got dropped were NOT the SAME plans as existed prior to the rollout. So again- if you're looking for blame, place it where its due.

Oh- and BTW, Obama just now announced that a change has been made and those who had lost their old ( and altered ) plans can keep them for another year yet. So I assume that should make all of you folks bellowing on and on about this super happy... right?

AverageBear says

but fails to realize that Obama made a promise that he'd cut the deficit in half and reduce our taxes when he first got elected.

Taxes for the middle class are lower than they have been in over 60 years. Lower than under Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr.

There is no lack of access to medical services. There is a desire for some dope smoking liberal pukes to expand welfare.

....."For four years, this debate has been theoretical. Now it’s real. And for Democrats, it’s a disaster.

It begins with the bungled rollout. If Washington can’t even do the Web site — the literal portal to this brave new world — how does it propose to regulate the vast ecosystem of American medicine?

Beyond the competence issue is the arrogance. Five million freely chosen, freely purchased, freely renewed health-care plans are summarily canceled. Why? Because they don’t meet some arbitrary standard set by the experts in Washington.

For all his news conference gyrations about not deliberately deceiving people with his “if you like it” promise, the law Obama so triumphantly gave us allows you to keep your plan only if he likes it. This is life imitating comedy — that old line about a liberal being someone who doesn’t care what you do as long as it’s mandatory."....

Great article out by Krauthammer today...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-why-liberals-are-panicked-about-obamacare/2013/11/14/bd2e9834-4d6f-11e3-be6b-d3d28122e6d4_story.html

edvard2 says

AverageBear says

but fails to realize that Obama made a promise that he'd cut the deficit in half and reduce our taxes when he first got elected.

Taxes for the middle class are lower than they have been in over 60 years. Lower than under Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr.

Could it because that avg. family is earning less than they were under Reagan, Bush Sr, and W?? Yes, Martha, when you earn less, you pay less taxes....

And speaking of taxes and Obamacare.....

I guess Obama missed his chance on this one…..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/22/payroll-tax-increase-2012_n_2000217.html

Well, Obamacare is a ‘tax’.. So says Chief Justice John Roberts. Remember?.....
http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2012/06/29/is-obamacare-the-largest-tax-increase-in-u-s-history/

AverageBear says

Could it because that avg. family is earning less than they were under
Reagan, Bush Sr, and W?? Yes, Martha, when you earn less, you pay less
taxes....

No it couldn't. Because that's not true.

sbh says

who thinks you are a small-minded reactionary conservative who is furious at no longer being the American exemplar and cannot find any practical way to force the nation to go back in time to the 1950s.

^^^^ = Capt. Project-O strikes again!

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - With all the problems facing the rollout of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, nowhere is the situation worse or more surprising than in Oregon, a progressive state that has enthusiastically embraced the federal law but has so far failed to enroll a single person in coverage through the state's insurance exchange.

Despite grand ambitions, an early start, millions of dollars from the federal government and a tech-savvy population, Oregon's online enrollment system still isn't ready more than a month after it was supposed to go live. The state has resorted to hiring or reassigning 400 people to process insurance applications by hand.

"We're all surprised and frustrated that we're in the position that we're in now," said Jesse O'Brien, a health care advocate at the Oregon State Public Interest Research Group, which lobbied for the exchange.

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/23994830/oregon-health-exchange-represents-biggest-woe

Since conservatives are clearly so unhappy with the idea of public healthcare then perhaps they should be given the ability to not have any insurance at all. That way whenever they get sick, they can have the "freedom" of paying for the service out of pocket as well as the patriotic and equally patriotic ability to go bankrupt as well.

AverageBear says

Beyond the competence issue is the arrogance. Five million freely chosen, freely purchased, freely renewed health-care plans are summarily canceled. Why? Because they don’t meet some arbitrary standard set by the experts in Washington.

Instead of bitching, why don't you tell us all YOUR plan for healthcare reform, and how it would work? I assume you have devised a foolproof way of providing healthcare to everyone, where essential services are covered, but at the same price as healthcare that DOESN'T cover essential services, all without raising anyone's taxes.

So please, give us all the details of YOUR healthcare plan, and then WE can sit here and pick it apart.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

People just fucking die. Accept that and you'll be at peace with the truth. Providing everyone with health care will bankrupt America and be unnatural. Why do you hate nature?

No, we can save them. We just have to click our heels together three times and say, "Obama lied! Obama lied! Benghazi!"

Its simply amazing isn't it? A quick look at many a chart shows that the overall standards of living in the US compared to much of the rest of the Western world has fallen greatly. And yet we have this contingency of people who have clearly been carefully conditioned to somehow associate any and all social benefits as somehow being negative ( aka- liberal).

Score for the corporations!

edvard2 says

Since conservatives are clearly so unhappy with the idea of public healthcare then perhaps they should be given the ability to not have any insurance at all. That way whenever they get sick, they can have the "freedom" of paying for the service out of pocket as well as the patriotic and equally patriotic ability to go bankrupt as well.

Can we non conservatives be extended this opportunity as well?

Please?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

As Canada and Sweden proved, socialized medicine will only kill everyone in the country it purports to serve.

The only thing more heinous is a progressive income-tax structure.

Real conservatives refuse to pay for the protection of the US military, because collectivism is evil. Better to fund your own defense for when a country attacks you.

errc says

edvard2 says

Since conservatives are clearly so unhappy with the idea of public healthcare then perhaps they should be given the ability to not have any insurance at all. That way whenever they get sick, they can have the "freedom" of paying for the service out of pocket as well as the patriotic and equally patriotic ability to go bankrupt as well.

Can we non conservatives be extended this opportunity as well?

Please?

No you can't. Because when you get a serious disease we have to pay for it. Oh sure, some of it will be okay - the bake sales and auctions of shit that your family and friends have to run for your health costs. The brownies your friends make will probably be pretty kick-ass.

But mostly it will just be depressing for everyone involved. And those unpaid hospital bills will increase insurance rates for the rest of us.

What makes you so sure that I will get sick?

Do you intend to get sick? Because with that mindset, its no wonder,,,,

errc says

Can we non conservatives be extended this opportunity as well?

Please?

You want to go bankrupt and you're asking me how to do this?errc says

What makes you so sure that I will get sick?

Because everyone does. Otherwise we would live forever.

edvard2 says

errc says

Can we non conservatives be extended this opportunity as well?

Please?

You want to go bankrupt and you're asking me how to do this?errc says

What makes you so sure that I will get sick?

Because everyone does. Otherwise we would live forever.

I wasn't asking how to go bankrupt. I've filed chapter 7 once before myself, so I could probably teach you a trick or two

Did you seriously just conflate getting sick, with dying?

Everyone dies eventually. You don't have to get sick in order to die. Plenty of people go their entire life without ever being sick, or bothering with a doctor. And then they eventually die, healthy and happy

You are suggesting a death tax?

Why not pine to raise inheritance tax?

errc says

What makes you so sure that I will get sick?

Do you intend to get sick? Because with that mindset, its no wonder,,,,

When I say "you" I am referring to the millions of people who'd rather not pay health insurance and take their chances. Thousands of them get sick every year. I can sympathize with you since I can tell from your posts here that you eat well and generally take care of yourself unlike most Americans. Me too. So it seems we will both have to pay for those who don't. We will get the last laugh though.

egads101 says

errc says

What makes you so sure that I will get sick?

Do you intend to get sick? Because with that mindset, its no wonder,,,,

great philosophy. If people get sick, it is because they are inferior and have a weak mindset that makes them get sick.

you are a fucking idiot.

Not at all. People wind up demanding that healthy young people like me, be forced by the gov to fork over 1/6th of my income to private corporations, because they've been brainwashed to believe that they need drugs and unnecessary and harmful procedures performed by people in healthcare

My mindset is to work hard to avoid the doctor. To be healthful.

Not to sit around worrying about made up diseases, planted in the minds of the tv watchers, so that they will demand their drugs, and think they are cures or treatments.

I invested countless hours of research, learning what it means to be healthful. Once you unlearn all the government misinformation about nutrition, its simple to stay healthy for the most part.

If I were ever to need the services of a healthcare professional, I should be able to do commerce with them.

I shouldn't be forced to fork over 500$ per month to privately owned corporations that go to great lengths to drug people, and piss their money away on unnecessary frivolties

errc says

What makes you so sure that I will get sick?

Do you intend to get sick? Because with that mindset, its no wonder,,,,

Exactly right.

A college classmate of mine chose to get stage-IV colon cancer, even though she had kids.

I'm still so pissed at her that I haven't spoken to her since she died.

Bitch!

Why do liberals choose to do these things? To get free money from insurance companies?

errc says

I wasn't asking how to go bankrupt. I've filed chapter 7 once before myself, so I could probably teach you a trick or two

Did you seriously just conflate getting sick, with dying?

Everyone dies eventually. You don't have to get sick in order to die. Plenty of people go their entire life without ever being sick, or bothering with a doctor. And then they eventually die, healthy and happy

First of all, I wouldn't get myself into a situation where I even remotely had to consider bankruptcy. I live cheap, save up for rainy days, and make a decent income. Even when I made $8 an hr I saved up a lot of money. So maybe I could teach you a thing or two... or three...

As far as counting on not getting sick, might as well take your money to Vegas and bet it all on black. Sorry, but that is not sound advice. I consider myself a healthy person. I eat decently, I run 5 miles a day, and I generally take good care of myself. That said, I have broken an arm, and been to the hospital for a number of minor issues. You would not believe how much even a minor medical problem or accident can cost these days. We're talking 10's of thousands of dollars, if not more. I personally know of at least 2 people who went bankrupt because they didn't have any health insurance and all it took was one trip to the hospital and that was it.

So your argument holds no water. Its a huge gamble, and I hope that not many others follow such an example.

edvard2 says

You would not believe how much even a minor medical problem or accident can cost these days.

That is because the prices have been ridiculously inflated, in large part due to insurance companies contracting with hospitals to overcharge out-of-network patients (including the uninsured). The actual cost is approximately the typical insurance co-payment, while the premium "protects" you against the overcharge the insurer and hospital agreed upon. It's a protection racket, and ought to be prosecuted under RICO. Instead, it's now mandatory.

Try comparing a retail hospital bill to the official value of the service codes on the bill, according to federal law. Try comparing to the cost in a place like Mexico, where medical education is subsidized and there is a public floor to deal with accidents etc. Try comparing to any other country. And that's without even considering the perverse incentives of the fee-for-service model. American for-profit insurance rackets are part of the problem, while Obamacare mandates them as the solution.

errc says

Once you unlearn all the government misinformation about nutrition, its simple to stay healthy for the most part.

What about that other part?

curious2 says

It's a protection racket, and ought to be prosecuted under RICO. Instead, it's now mandatory.

Maybe that was the Dem's plan all along. Really piss us off with insurance companies so that we will beg for single-payer.