patrick.net

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

New Renter says

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

I can't but think that this is coming more from macho than reality?

Quigley says

Living in the LA area, if the SHTF for real, zombie apoc or similar, the roads would be death traps. I'd head for the marina, steal a sailboat, and head out to sea. I think a handgun would get me there, only have five miles or so to go. I have two, and a sniper rifle for yacht security once on board. Long distance is everything in sea battles.

Great idea, really a neglected concept. Sails don't run out of gas and can be made, patched or replaced with bronze age technology. Plenty of fish in the sea. Can hang off lightly populated areas to get water and wild greens, and use the dingy so the whole group doesn't have to land and expose itself to danger at once. Solar and Wind power at sea, and can use the rain catchments or the watermaker if it's too dangerous to land for a while. Can barter fish, also.

thunderlips11 says

Sails don't run out of gas and can be made, patched or replaced with bronze age technology.

Except when pirates rule the seas

indigenous says

New Renter says

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

I can't but think that this is coming more from macho than reality?

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Here's a travel tip. If you ever find yourself in a war zone and there is a military convoy approaching or worse an EOD squad at work:

DO NOT PULL OUT A CELL PHONE!

Its amazing how many people forget this simple rule.

Better yet slowly and carefully walk away with your hands in sight at all times and pray your head is not suddenly transformed into a pink cloud.

New Renter says

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Not sure Afghanistan is the same paradigm as might be here?

indigenous says

New Renter says

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Not sure Afghanistan is the same paradigm as might be here?

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

New Renter says

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

The one time I have seen the SHTF was in 92 in LA. The police were absent, the people who had to defend themselves were not in fire fights they were defending their property against looters.

indigenous says

New Renter says

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

The one time I have seen the SHTF was in 92 in LA. The police were absent, the people who had to defend themselves were not in fire fights they were defending their property against looters.

Losing personal property could be the least of concern when SHTF.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

Depends on where,when, and how you think SHTF will happen.

During riots and escalating looting after

That's just the first month of
If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

This projection is wise beyond your years.
Best to occupy the worst location the world has to offer, or tunnel deep.

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

I don't see that. No matter what you are not going to survive alone.

Being stationary makes you a target.

Best to be off the cross roads. Best to be in a community preferably with relatives.

But this would require a complete melt down. I don't see this happening. I see the dystopian scene being more likely.

So the gun would not be for TEOTWAWKI just for the latest outrage over the latest injustice. These uprisings last about 3 days then the natives calm down. But considering how many "rights" the nanny state doles out there are going to be many "injustices".

Misread the thread title and thought, "They make STFU guns now? Cool, how does THAT work?"

Automan Empire says

STFU guns

How would that be different than any gun?

You need to think like James Tiberius Kirk. It's not about what you brought to the party, it's what you can improvise on the ground.

Heraclitusstudent says

here will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

Then you should put some aside for them. Preferably in the form of long expired canned goods with a falsified expiration date. Pay your tribute then wait a few days. Presto! Gang problem goes away.

indigenous says

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

I don't see that. No matter what you are not going to survive alone.

Being stationary makes you a target.

Best to be off the cross roads. Best to be in a community preferably with relatives.

But this would require a complete melt down. I don't see this happening. I see the dystopian scene being more likely.

So the gun would not be for TEOTWAWKI just for the latest outrage over the latest injustice. These uprisings last about 3 days then the natives calm down. But considering how many "rights" the nanny state doles out there are going to be many "injustices".

Personally I often wonder if we'll be a total collapse or dystopian. Hard to tell. Honestly, I've been preparing for either. Even managed to learn how to grow food and turn creek water to drinkable without the use of electricity or fire. And of course some medical stuff. You can never know what maybe in handy :).

Hell I even went as far out of the box to buying a stock loads of striking matches. I mean why not get about 1000 of them for like $2-3 in Walmart and in Wiemar Germany's hyperinflation period they were good tools to barter with.

Personally though i'll be using the flint steel and magnesium bar :).

spydah_hh says

hyperinflation period

I don't see hyperinflation happening, if they can print 6 trillion out of thin air and we still don't see it, it is not going to happen. This is probably because the credit market has shrunk so much. So the reality is that we will probably see deflation.

indigenous says

spydah_hh says

hyperinflation period

I don't see hyperinflation happening, if they can print 6 trillion out of thin air and we still don't see it, it is not going to happen. This is probably because the credit market has shrunk so much. So the reality is that we will probably see deflation.

Most of the money that's print is leaves the country. What happens when they came back? Plus there's still a demand for dollars at least for now.

spydah_hh says

Most of the money that's print is leaves the country. What happens when they came back?

They won't as the US is the reserve currency of the world.

Once someone excepts payment in a dollar for goods they are stuck with the dollars.

Keep in mind that the credit market dwarfs the amount of currency exchanged so it even if what you stated happened it would be a fraction of the money. Credit is money also.

indigenous says

They won't as the US is the reserve currency of the world.

Yes, it's the reserve currency but at some point with all the printing of money, these countries are going to realize that the U.S. never intend to pay them back with valuable dollars. Remember Saddam Hussein back in 2000 finally allowed other countries to buy oil in other currencies outside of U.S. dollars. Needless to say it didn't go to well for him but he was certainly willing to get out of dollars. It's only a matter of time before the entire world think the same.

I am guessing you're thinking we're going into deflation? I don't see deflation simply because the government won't allow it. They won't be able to service the debt that's been created without inflation. And they'll keep inflation to keep servicing the debt even if it means high through hyperinflation.

The "excess reserve" at the FED is now at $2.5Trillion, more than 30 times the reserve requirement! Things can unhinge quite rapidly if and when that money gets lent out with multiplier effect in a big hurry.

You want something that uses .22, .223 or 9mm. Those are BY FAR the most common calibers.

I have in the 5 digits plus for each, so I think I'm set :)

If SHTF, hanging out at my house would probably be a good idea. You're all invited.

spydah_hh says

Needless to say it didn't go to well for him but he was certainly willing to get out of dollars. It's only a matter of time before the entire world think the same.

Yea but as bad as the dollar is, the world has more confidence in it than other currency.

I don't think the agreement that Nixon had with Saudi Arabia is as much of a factor as the confidence people have in the dollar.

Yea the deflation is inspite of the FED, but again it is a fraction of the credit market.

The other factor is that the demand for commodities is way down.

And that the worlds' traded balances are way out of whack. The Yuan and Germany have to change their exports as they are malinvested. This means that the US trade deficit will shrink.

Reality says

The "excess reserve" at the FED is now at $2.5Trillion, more than 30 times the reserve requirement! Things can unhinge quite rapidly if and when that money gets lent out with multiplier effect in a big hurry.

I hear you but the credit market was 50 trillion. I don't know what it is now but I'm thinking it is a fraction of what it was.

That and the fact the market has never really cleared so a I question whether there is a genuine requirement for investment.

The US dollar reminds me of the famous quote by a US Navy Seal.

"It's not that we're that good, it's just that everybody else sucks."

Pretty much sums up the US.

If I could get into Finland, Sweden or Norway, I would move in a heartbeat, only for my kid's sake. The only fallback I have is Japan, whose economy seems to be coupled with ours, unfortunately.

My dad was a WW2 vet. He would be ashamed of what a shitty country this has become.

CrazyMan says

If I could get into Finland, Sweden or Norway, I would move in a heartbeat. The only fallback I have is Japan, whose economy seems to be coupled with ours, unfortunately.

It seems like you would be better off in the land that you know?

I was born here, so I know here.

My wife is a Japanese citizen. Actually now my child is too, if she likes :)

This country is not what it used to be.

CrazyMan says

If I could get into Finland, Sweden or Norway, I would move in a heartbeat, only for my kid's sake. The only fallback I have is Japan, whose economy seems to be coupled with ours, unfortunately.

You can get in anywhere you want Depending on your situation you might have to make big sacrifices to do it.

CrazyMan says

The US dollar reminds me of the famous quote by a US Navy Seal.

"It's not that we're that good, it's just that everybody else sucks."

Pretty much sums up the US.

If I could get into Finland, Sweden or Norway, I would move in a heartbeat, only for my kid's sake. The only fallback I have is Japan, whose economy seems to be coupled with ours, unfortunately.

My dad was a WW2 vet. He would be ashamed of what a shitty country this has become.

I'd go Norway myself. They're much more about free market and capitalism than this country is. Plus they stuck to their roots and still have their own currency the krone.

CrazyMan says

The US dollar reminds me of the famous quote by a US Navy Seal.

"It's not that we're that good, it's just that everybody else sucks."

I guess he never met a Ranger

If I could get into Finland, Sweden or Norway, I would move in a heartbeat, only for my kid's sake. The only fallback I have is Japan, whose economy seems to be coupled with ours, unfortunately.

Sweden is great for kids! If you don't mind a society which values living modestly you will like it too.

My dad was a WW2 vet. He would be ashamed of what a shitty country this has become.

He should have moved to Sweden.

The Professor says

indigenous says

Recommendations on a SHTF gun?

Crossbow; silent and deadly. Cannibals are attracted to gunshot noise. The bolts are often reusable and you can always make your own.

I take it you're a fan of Walking Dead"

You only have one shot with the crossbow so you should have a M134 Minigun for backup. You'll need a lot of ammo for the minigun.

A minigun isn't the most man portable weapon around. It needs a battery for the spinning motor in addition to all that ammo.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

In the end, a guy with an M134 and 10,000 rounds of belt fed ammo lives and cannibals with machetes fucking die.

Only if his battery is charged. Better remember to pack a solar panel and windmill into the survival kit.

prodigy says

Yeah... you could clean after SHTF with that :-)