patrick.net

spydah_hh says

Personally, I think my next gun is going to be a .22 caliber rifle.

I read several articles and they indicate that a Ruger 10/22 is not a bad choice. Maybe not sexy, but I'm a lot more accurate with a 22 than a 45 let alone from a rifle. And the speed is good.

prodigy says

You are better off with a good pair of running sneakers.

You'd be best off with a second passport and offshore bank accounts then get out of dodge early before SHTF. Don't let the government bullshit you that only criminals have their money offshore, they just want all of it within their reach.

Remington 870.
Glock 19.
Ruger mini 14 or an AR type in .223.
Ruger 10/22 for the kids.
Get two of each cause you'll be giving some to your neighbors in SHTF.
If your serious about a handgun you better put a lot of time in at the gun range. It's hard to hit anything beyond 7 yards unless you practice.

indigenous says

Ruger 10/22

The Ruger 10/22 is a great little rifle.
But t can make you feel embarrassingly underdressed in a world armed with real battle rifles. With the Classic Armageddon Tool, the AK 47 in 7.62x39 you can hold your head up (oops, bad figure of speech there) in any crowd.
Hell, if all your pall's get 'em (again PLENTY of magazines and ammo) you could be a Warlord!

Ruger 10/22, the general purpose gun.
*** Doesn't look militarized, attracts less attention, esp. in those early days when there might still be some authority trying to defang everybody. "I just have this for plinking", use the .22LRs false reputation as a "harmless" round to your advantage
* Most common round
* Super Common rifle, easy to find parts and mags and bullets.
* Great for hunting small game, since the deer are going to be slaughtered en-masse quickly for food. Rabbits breed like, uh, rabbits.
* Fairly Quiet
* Can and has frequently killed people on a regular basis.
* Getting hit with .22LRs hurts.

* Hi-Point 9mm, the AK-47 of Pistols.
* The AK-47 of pistols.
* Accuracy doesn't matter when you have a jam.
* I've shot one out of the box with packing grease and put about 3 dozen rounds through it. It still works great.
* People have driven 4x4s over them in muddy fields multiple times, picked them up, and shot targets successfully.
* Beat somebody over the head with this sturdy, heavy ass gun when the ammo runs out.

9mm Carbine.

12 gauge Shotgun
* Shotguns do need to be aimed at targets within 20-30 feet (ie home defense) 9mms will go through walls also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5K3DrD4Lk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8

The two most common rounds, .22 and 9mm - And the most common shell. Easy to resupply or barter with.

Sniper Rifles are for people who live on a hill in the desert with clear lines of sight.

Robert Sproul says

But t can make you feel embarrassingly underdressed in a world armed with real battle rifles.

From what I'm reading this isn't a who has the biggest dick contest?

Odds are you are going to be defending against someone without those guns.

If the SHTF getting ammo will be difficult to come by. The most plentiful will be 22 shells.

Yep, and indigenous, check THIS out.

Talk about something that is "undercover" and dirt cheap. Flare Gun inserts.

http://kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberinsert.php
http://www.youtube.com/embed/6vfQwdszJYM

"Oh, I just have this from my old boat."

I have had my 10/22 since I was a kid, and it still works perfect despite the punishment I have put it through. And you can put 1000 rounds in your two jacket pockets. It kinda makes me laugh when you hear the news say some guy was caught a semiautomatic rifle and close to a THOUSAND rounds, like he's some paranoid militia member, doomsday prepper type, then they show a photo of a little .22 rifle and 2 $15 boxes of 22s he bought at WalMart.

The 9mm is good for traveling and a quick back up weapon, but its too limited as a primary choice unless you're playing a video game taking headshots at unthinkable distances. The .22 would be the best for survival as you can hike with thousands of rounds in your backpack without weighing you down. The shotgun would be best if you were holed up in a house or building waiting for help to come because of it's close quarter prowess. But if I could only have one, it would be an AR-15 or AK variant. It's clearly the best option, being effective at all range conditions. Of course in California you have to go featureless with these type of guns or neuter them with a bullet button locking in a 10rd mag

watch?v=bTeYncx1xmI:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bTeYncx1xmI

I have the following:
- Glock 19 - 9mm
- AR 15
- Benelli Nova tactical shotgun
plus about 4 other WWII era rifles (303 British) ... all still shooting well, but damn they kick like a mule, so accuracy is difficult at distance.

The AR15 is super sweet to fire, very little recoil ... so accuracy is good.
The shotgun is surprisingly accurate, especially with slugs - damn they leave a big hole.

I would say I have somewhere in the range of 500-1000 various rounds ... mainly 9mm and 2.23/5.56

agree with above... all you need is:

1. remington 870/Mossberg 500
2. any 9mm hand gun. cant go wrong with glock. just get what feels the best when shooting.

Living in the LA area, if the SHTF for real, zombie apoc or similar, the roads would be death traps. I'd head for the marina, steal a sailboat, and head out to sea. I think a handgun would get me there, only have five miles or so to go. I have two, and a sniper rifle for yacht security once on board. Long distance is everything in sea battles.

Quigley says

Long distance is everything in sea battles.

How good are you with that sniper rifle at hitting a long distance target on a pitching sea? Against a hail of machine gun fire, or worse a dialed-in mortar?

What you really need is just a bigger, faster, stronger ship. Then you can just slice you opponent in half or escape. A well armored ship can take a few mortar rounds and laughs at anything smaller.

Assuming this is a serious topic...

1. For handguns, go with 9mm. Or 45 if you're feeling nostalgic (but 9mm is the more efficient choice). The debates over polymer vs steel frame and striker fired vs hammer fired were relevant in the 80's - 90's like the debate a thousand years ago on whether Earth was flat or round. Today, it's obvious: Polymer frame, striker fired such as Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, etc... Even Sig Sauer, arguably the premier handgun manufacturer, went with a polymer frame and striker fired with the P320. Polymer is a lot lighter and still very strong. Striker fired is mechanically more simple and less prone to failure than hammer fired.

2. Shotguns are simple and good for a variety of hunting purposes. When loaded with buckshot, they serve well for home defense at short (inside home/average backyard) ranges. Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 or 590. You can't really go wrong with either, but the Remington 870's finish needs to be cared for (oil it or put a coat of Eezox) while the Mossberg arguably is a bit less mechanically robust.

3. If you're really committed to protection in even the most extreme circumstances, get yourself a semi-automatic AR-15 or AK-47. Note that these are legal in most states but are illegal or restricted in commie states such as NY, CT, MA, CA, etc.

Thanks for the thread. I'm making an early start at spring clean up and have been hocking all the shit that just seems to collect dust. Ithaca 16 bore,,,next on the chop block

errc says

Ithaca 16 bore,,,next on the chop block

Chopped like this?

SkyPirate says

3. If you're really committed to protection in even the most extreme circumstances, get yourself a semi-automatic AR-15 or AK-47. Note that these are legal in most states but are illegal or restricted in commie states such as NY, CT, MA, CA, etc.

The AR-15 is the best selling centerfire rifle in California, but they have to be sold featureless or with a maglocked 10rd magazine. Even in my small community, the local gun shop has an entire wall of around 100 rifles consisting of nothing but AR-15s on display. You can no longer buy hi capacity magazines here though, they are legal to possess, however it is now legal for LEOs to confiscate and destroy them as a public nuisance(although I doubt this nuisance law will stand up in court at the first serious challenge).

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

New Renter says

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

I can't but think that this is coming more from macho than reality?

Quigley says

Living in the LA area, if the SHTF for real, zombie apoc or similar, the roads would be death traps. I'd head for the marina, steal a sailboat, and head out to sea. I think a handgun would get me there, only have five miles or so to go. I have two, and a sniper rifle for yacht security once on board. Long distance is everything in sea battles.

Great idea, really a neglected concept. Sails don't run out of gas and can be made, patched or replaced with bronze age technology. Plenty of fish in the sea. Can hang off lightly populated areas to get water and wild greens, and use the dingy so the whole group doesn't have to land and expose itself to danger at once. Solar and Wind power at sea, and can use the rain catchments or the watermaker if it's too dangerous to land for a while. Can barter fish, also.

thunderlips11 says

Sails don't run out of gas and can be made, patched or replaced with bronze age technology.

Except when pirates rule the seas

indigenous says

New Renter says

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

I can't but think that this is coming more from macho than reality?

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Here's a travel tip. If you ever find yourself in a war zone and there is a military convoy approaching or worse an EOD squad at work:

DO NOT PULL OUT A CELL PHONE!

Its amazing how many people forget this simple rule.

Better yet slowly and carefully walk away with your hands in sight at all times and pray your head is not suddenly transformed into a pink cloud.

New Renter says

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Not sure Afghanistan is the same paradigm as might be here?

indigenous says

New Renter says

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Not sure Afghanistan is the same paradigm as might be here?

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

New Renter says

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

The one time I have seen the SHTF was in 92 in LA. The police were absent, the people who had to defend themselves were not in fire fights they were defending their property against looters.

indigenous says

New Renter says

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

The one time I have seen the SHTF was in 92 in LA. The police were absent, the people who had to defend themselves were not in fire fights they were defending their property against looters.

Losing personal property could be the least of concern when SHTF.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

Depends on where,when, and how you think SHTF will happen.

During riots and escalating looting after

That's just the first month of
If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

This projection is wise beyond your years.
Best to occupy the worst location the world has to offer, or tunnel deep.

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

I don't see that. No matter what you are not going to survive alone.

Being stationary makes you a target.

Best to be off the cross roads. Best to be in a community preferably with relatives.

But this would require a complete melt down. I don't see this happening. I see the dystopian scene being more likely.

So the gun would not be for TEOTWAWKI just for the latest outrage over the latest injustice. These uprisings last about 3 days then the natives calm down. But considering how many "rights" the nanny state doles out there are going to be many "injustices".

Misread the thread title and thought, "They make STFU guns now? Cool, how does THAT work?"

Automan Empire says

STFU guns

How would that be different than any gun?

You need to think like James Tiberius Kirk. It's not about what you brought to the party, it's what you can improvise on the ground.

Heraclitusstudent says

here will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

Then you should put some aside for them. Preferably in the form of long expired canned goods with a falsified expiration date. Pay your tribute then wait a few days. Presto! Gang problem goes away.

indigenous says

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

I don't see that. No matter what you are not going to survive alone.

Being stationary makes you a target.

Best to be off the cross roads. Best to be in a community preferably with relatives.

But this would require a complete melt down. I don't see this happening. I see the dystopian scene being more likely.

So the gun would not be for TEOTWAWKI just for the latest outrage over the latest injustice. These uprisings last about 3 days then the natives calm down. But considering how many "rights" the nanny state doles out there are going to be many "injustices".

Personally I often wonder if we'll be a total collapse or dystopian. Hard to tell. Honestly, I've been preparing for either. Even managed to learn how to grow food and turn creek water to drinkable without the use of electricity or fire. And of course some medical stuff. You can never know what maybe in handy :).

Hell I even went as far out of the box to buying a stock loads of striking matches. I mean why not get about 1000 of them for like $2-3 in Walmart and in Wiemar Germany's hyperinflation period they were good tools to barter with.

Personally though i'll be using the flint steel and magnesium bar :).

spydah_hh says

hyperinflation period

I don't see hyperinflation happening, if they can print 6 trillion out of thin air and we still don't see it, it is not going to happen. This is probably because the credit market has shrunk so much. So the reality is that we will probably see deflation.

indigenous says

spydah_hh says

hyperinflation period

I don't see hyperinflation happening, if they can print 6 trillion out of thin air and we still don't see it, it is not going to happen. This is probably because the credit market has shrunk so much. So the reality is that we will probably see deflation.

Most of the money that's print is leaves the country. What happens when they came back? Plus there's still a demand for dollars at least for now.

spydah_hh says

Most of the money that's print is leaves the country. What happens when they came back?

They won't as the US is the reserve currency of the world.

Once someone excepts payment in a dollar for goods they are stuck with the dollars.

Keep in mind that the credit market dwarfs the amount of currency exchanged so it even if what you stated happened it would be a fraction of the money. Credit is money also.

indigenous says

They won't as the US is the reserve currency of the world.

Yes, it's the reserve currency but at some point with all the printing of money, these countries are going to realize that the U.S. never intend to pay them back with valuable dollars. Remember Saddam Hussein back in 2000 finally allowed other countries to buy oil in other currencies outside of U.S. dollars. Needless to say it didn't go to well for him but he was certainly willing to get out of dollars. It's only a matter of time before the entire world think the same.

I am guessing you're thinking we're going into deflation? I don't see deflation simply because the government won't allow it. They won't be able to service the debt that's been created without inflation. And they'll keep inflation to keep servicing the debt even if it means high through hyperinflation.

The "excess reserve" at the FED is now at $2.5Trillion, more than 30 times the reserve requirement! Things can unhinge quite rapidly if and when that money gets lent out with multiplier effect in a big hurry.

You want something that uses .22, .223 or 9mm. Those are BY FAR the most common calibers.

I have in the 5 digits plus for each, so I think I'm set :)

If SHTF, hanging out at my house would probably be a good idea. You're all invited.

spydah_hh says

Needless to say it didn't go to well for him but he was certainly willing to get out of dollars. It's only a matter of time before the entire world think the same.

Yea but as bad as the dollar is, the world has more confidence in it than other currency.

I don't think the agreement that Nixon had with Saudi Arabia is as much of a factor as the confidence people have in the dollar.

Yea the deflation is inspite of the FED, but again it is a fraction of the credit market.

The other factor is that the demand for commodities is way down.

And that the worlds' traded balances are way out of whack. The Yuan and Germany have to change their exports as they are malinvested. This means that the US trade deficit will shrink.