patrick.net

AR15.

Handguns are hard to use and not very powerful. If you're anticipating hunting to eat and/or gun fights you want a long arm instead.

Shotguns don't have those problems but still aren't good for long range and don't have fat bellies holding a lot of rounds.

You want a semi-automatic rifle. .223 is enough to do the job but still has low recoil for inexperienced shooters. The AR15 platform also facilitates sub minute-of-angle (an inch at a hundred yards) accuracy when you want to chow down on small game like rabbit.

bob2356 says

Depends on where,when, and how you think SHTF will happen.

During riots and escalating looting after

Curious, I like your post. Normally, I would just click, "like." However, it seems that the feature is not working right now. You made me laugh out loud.

Ceffer, yours is funny, too.

Seriously, though... My plastic surgeon strenuously advises against me operating a firearm:

http://www.military.com/video/guns/recoil/humor-10-funny-gun-fails/1288398474001/

indigenous says

bob2356 says

Depends on where,when, and how you think SHTF will happen.

During riots and escalating looting after

AR15 with lots of magazines for med to long distance. Sawed off shotgun for anyone getting close up. Very messy but sets a great example to discourage others.

Good choices but you best have both, friend.
12 ga pump, Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, it is a coin toss.
9 mm Glock 19.
Don't forget a dozen magazines for the Glock and 1000 rounds 9mm, and at least 250 shotshells.
If you are in Cali you best get a gun safe or you are liable for any mayhem caused by the reprobate that breaks in your damn house and steals your gun.

You are better off with a good pair of running sneakers.

How about one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/kDsKbSsb2yI#t=0

The MXT135 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System has a range of roughly 7,800 feet - and is to be deployed in Afghanistan soon. I would call it the "Equalizer."
Some call it the "Punisher".

The rifle's gun sight uses a laser range finder to determine the exact distance to the obstruction, after which the soldier can add or subtract up to 10 meters from that distance to enable the bullets to clear the barrier and explode above or beside the target.

Soldiers will be able to use them to target snipers hidden in trenches rather than calling in air strikes.

The 35-millimeter round contains a chip that receives a radio signal from the gun sight as to the precise distance to the target.

Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner, project manager for the system, described the weapon as a 'game-changer' that other nations will try and copy.

The Army plans to buy 42,500 of the MXT135 rifles this year, enough for every member of the infantry and special forces, at a cost of $11,900.00 each.

Lehner told Fox News: "With this weapon system, we take away cover from [enemy targets] forever. Tactics are going to have to be rewritten.
The only thing we can see [enemies] being able to do is run away."

Experts say the rifle means that enemy troops will no longer be safe if they take cover. The MXT135 appears to be the perfect weapon for street-to-street fighting that troops in Afghanistan have to engage in, with enemy fighters hiding behind walls and only breaking cover to fire occasionally.

The weapon's laser finder would work out how far away the enemy was and then the U.S. Soldier would add one meter using a button near the trigger.

When fired, the explosive round would carry exactly one meter past the wall and explode with the force of a hand grenade above the Taliban fighter.

The army's project manager for new weapons, Douglas Tamilio, said: ''This is the first leap-ahead technology for troops that we've been able to develop and deploy."

A patent granted to the bullet's maker, Alliant Tech systems, reveals that the chip can determine how far it has traveled. Mr. Tamilio said: "You could shoot a Javelin missile,
and it would cost about $69,000. These rounds will end up costing $45.00 apiece."

They're relatively cheap. Lehner added: "This is a game-changer. The enemy has learned to get cover, for hundreds if not thousands of years. Well, they can't do that anymore. We're taking that cover from them and there's only two outcomes: We're going to get you behind that cover or force you to flee." The rifle will initially use high-explosive rounds, but its makers say that it might later use versions with smaller explosive charges that aim to stun rather than kill.

What one of the revolutionary bullets looks like that can be pre-programmed to explode to hit troops that are hiding.

indigenous says

New Renter says

Need you ask?

So you would recommend this over the salad shooter?

What would ammo cost for this baby? Probably more than the salad shooter.

Do the authorities frown upon mounting this in a turret on top of your car?

A pre-1986 transferable model is a *bit* more expensive than a salad shooter so it really depends on your budget. Fully cranked an M134 chews through 6000 rounds of 7.62x51 a minute so yes the ammo budget is not trivial. On the other hand you won't need to pull the trigger for very long.

And when SHTF by definition there will be no authority to care about your turret.

Just move in next to AF and family and get on their good side!

BEHOLD, THE POTATO GATLING!

http://youtu.be/eHUyKrJeNv0

When the SHTF, plant potatoes.

Vicente says

BEHOLD, THE POTATO GATLING!

http://youtu.be/eHUyKrJeNv0

When the SHTF, plant potatoes.

But can it fire yams?

indigenous says

some say a shotgun

this is not Uncle Joes Shotgun, but you can make Sloppy Joes out Zombies

http://www.youtube.com/embed/WOoUVeyaY_8

as close to California Compliant

http://www.youtube.com/embed/tSoC4anFBPo

spydah_hh says

Personally, I think my next gun is going to be a .22 caliber rifle.

I read several articles and they indicate that a Ruger 10/22 is not a bad choice. Maybe not sexy, but I'm a lot more accurate with a 22 than a 45 let alone from a rifle. And the speed is good.

prodigy says

You are better off with a good pair of running sneakers.

You'd be best off with a second passport and offshore bank accounts then get out of dodge early before SHTF. Don't let the government bullshit you that only criminals have their money offshore, they just want all of it within their reach.

Remington 870.
Glock 19.
Ruger mini 14 or an AR type in .223.
Ruger 10/22 for the kids.
Get two of each cause you'll be giving some to your neighbors in SHTF.
If your serious about a handgun you better put a lot of time in at the gun range. It's hard to hit anything beyond 7 yards unless you practice.

indigenous says

Ruger 10/22

The Ruger 10/22 is a great little rifle.
But t can make you feel embarrassingly underdressed in a world armed with real battle rifles. With the Classic Armageddon Tool, the AK 47 in 7.62x39 you can hold your head up (oops, bad figure of speech there) in any crowd.
Hell, if all your pall's get 'em (again PLENTY of magazines and ammo) you could be a Warlord!

Ruger 10/22, the general purpose gun.
*** Doesn't look militarized, attracts less attention, esp. in those early days when there might still be some authority trying to defang everybody. "I just have this for plinking", use the .22LRs false reputation as a "harmless" round to your advantage
* Most common round
* Super Common rifle, easy to find parts and mags and bullets.
* Great for hunting small game, since the deer are going to be slaughtered en-masse quickly for food. Rabbits breed like, uh, rabbits.
* Fairly Quiet
* Can and has frequently killed people on a regular basis.
* Getting hit with .22LRs hurts.

* Hi-Point 9mm, the AK-47 of Pistols.
* The AK-47 of pistols.
* Accuracy doesn't matter when you have a jam.
* I've shot one out of the box with packing grease and put about 3 dozen rounds through it. It still works great.
* People have driven 4x4s over them in muddy fields multiple times, picked them up, and shot targets successfully.
* Beat somebody over the head with this sturdy, heavy ass gun when the ammo runs out.

9mm Carbine.

12 gauge Shotgun
* Shotguns do need to be aimed at targets within 20-30 feet (ie home defense) 9mms will go through walls also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5K3DrD4Lk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8

The two most common rounds, .22 and 9mm - And the most common shell. Easy to resupply or barter with.

Sniper Rifles are for people who live on a hill in the desert with clear lines of sight.

Robert Sproul says

But t can make you feel embarrassingly underdressed in a world armed with real battle rifles.

From what I'm reading this isn't a who has the biggest dick contest?

Odds are you are going to be defending against someone without those guns.

If the SHTF getting ammo will be difficult to come by. The most plentiful will be 22 shells.

Yep, and indigenous, check THIS out.

Talk about something that is "undercover" and dirt cheap. Flare Gun inserts.

http://kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberinsert.php
http://www.youtube.com/embed/6vfQwdszJYM

"Oh, I just have this from my old boat."

I have had my 10/22 since I was a kid, and it still works perfect despite the punishment I have put it through. And you can put 1000 rounds in your two jacket pockets. It kinda makes me laugh when you hear the news say some guy was caught a semiautomatic rifle and close to a THOUSAND rounds, like he's some paranoid militia member, doomsday prepper type, then they show a photo of a little .22 rifle and 2 $15 boxes of 22s he bought at WalMart.

The 9mm is good for traveling and a quick back up weapon, but its too limited as a primary choice unless you're playing a video game taking headshots at unthinkable distances. The .22 would be the best for survival as you can hike with thousands of rounds in your backpack without weighing you down. The shotgun would be best if you were holed up in a house or building waiting for help to come because of it's close quarter prowess. But if I could only have one, it would be an AR-15 or AK variant. It's clearly the best option, being effective at all range conditions. Of course in California you have to go featureless with these type of guns or neuter them with a bullet button locking in a 10rd mag

watch?v=bTeYncx1xmI:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bTeYncx1xmI

I have the following:
- Glock 19 - 9mm
- AR 15
- Benelli Nova tactical shotgun
plus about 4 other WWII era rifles (303 British) ... all still shooting well, but damn they kick like a mule, so accuracy is difficult at distance.

The AR15 is super sweet to fire, very little recoil ... so accuracy is good.
The shotgun is surprisingly accurate, especially with slugs - damn they leave a big hole.

I would say I have somewhere in the range of 500-1000 various rounds ... mainly 9mm and 2.23/5.56

agree with above... all you need is:

1. remington 870/Mossberg 500
2. any 9mm hand gun. cant go wrong with glock. just get what feels the best when shooting.

Living in the LA area, if the SHTF for real, zombie apoc or similar, the roads would be death traps. I'd head for the marina, steal a sailboat, and head out to sea. I think a handgun would get me there, only have five miles or so to go. I have two, and a sniper rifle for yacht security once on board. Long distance is everything in sea battles.

Quigley says

Long distance is everything in sea battles.

How good are you with that sniper rifle at hitting a long distance target on a pitching sea? Against a hail of machine gun fire, or worse a dialed-in mortar?

What you really need is just a bigger, faster, stronger ship. Then you can just slice you opponent in half or escape. A well armored ship can take a few mortar rounds and laughs at anything smaller.

Assuming this is a serious topic...

1. For handguns, go with 9mm. Or 45 if you're feeling nostalgic (but 9mm is the more efficient choice). The debates over polymer vs steel frame and striker fired vs hammer fired were relevant in the 80's - 90's like the debate a thousand years ago on whether Earth was flat or round. Today, it's obvious: Polymer frame, striker fired such as Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, etc... Even Sig Sauer, arguably the premier handgun manufacturer, went with a polymer frame and striker fired with the P320. Polymer is a lot lighter and still very strong. Striker fired is mechanically more simple and less prone to failure than hammer fired.

2. Shotguns are simple and good for a variety of hunting purposes. When loaded with buckshot, they serve well for home defense at short (inside home/average backyard) ranges. Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 or 590. You can't really go wrong with either, but the Remington 870's finish needs to be cared for (oil it or put a coat of Eezox) while the Mossberg arguably is a bit less mechanically robust.

3. If you're really committed to protection in even the most extreme circumstances, get yourself a semi-automatic AR-15 or AK-47. Note that these are legal in most states but are illegal or restricted in commie states such as NY, CT, MA, CA, etc.

Thanks for the thread. I'm making an early start at spring clean up and have been hocking all the shit that just seems to collect dust. Ithaca 16 bore,,,next on the chop block

errc says

Ithaca 16 bore,,,next on the chop block

Chopped like this?

SkyPirate says

3. If you're really committed to protection in even the most extreme circumstances, get yourself a semi-automatic AR-15 or AK-47. Note that these are legal in most states but are illegal or restricted in commie states such as NY, CT, MA, CA, etc.

The AR-15 is the best selling centerfire rifle in California, but they have to be sold featureless or with a maglocked 10rd magazine. Even in my small community, the local gun shop has an entire wall of around 100 rifles consisting of nothing but AR-15s on display. You can no longer buy hi capacity magazines here though, they are legal to possess, however it is now legal for LEOs to confiscate and destroy them as a public nuisance(although I doubt this nuisance law will stand up in court at the first serious challenge).

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

New Renter says

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

I can't but think that this is coming more from macho than reality?

Quigley says

Living in the LA area, if the SHTF for real, zombie apoc or similar, the roads would be death traps. I'd head for the marina, steal a sailboat, and head out to sea. I think a handgun would get me there, only have five miles or so to go. I have two, and a sniper rifle for yacht security once on board. Long distance is everything in sea battles.

Great idea, really a neglected concept. Sails don't run out of gas and can be made, patched or replaced with bronze age technology. Plenty of fish in the sea. Can hang off lightly populated areas to get water and wild greens, and use the dingy so the whole group doesn't have to land and expose itself to danger at once. Solar and Wind power at sea, and can use the rain catchments or the watermaker if it's too dangerous to land for a while. Can barter fish, also.

thunderlips11 says

Sails don't run out of gas and can be made, patched or replaced with bronze age technology.

Except when pirates rule the seas

indigenous says

New Renter says

Well in all seriousness I did have this conversation with a friend of mine who has spent most of his adult life in SHTF. His recommendation was an AR-15 and a handgun that fits your hand well and you are comfortable with.

I can't but think that this is coming more from macho than reality?

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Here's a travel tip. If you ever find yourself in a war zone and there is a military convoy approaching or worse an EOD squad at work:

DO NOT PULL OUT A CELL PHONE!

Its amazing how many people forget this simple rule.

Better yet slowly and carefully walk away with your hands in sight at all times and pray your head is not suddenly transformed into a pink cloud.

New Renter says

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Not sure Afghanistan is the same paradigm as might be here?

indigenous says

New Renter says

Could be some of that. But the things he's told me about aren't the kind of things most people brag about.

Not sure Afghanistan is the same paradigm as might be here?

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

New Renter says

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

The one time I have seen the SHTF was in 92 in LA. The police were absent, the people who had to defend themselves were not in fire fights they were defending their property against looters.

indigenous says

New Renter says

Afghanistan,Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia, Angola, Libya, Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Panama its all the same when SHTF.

The one time I have seen the SHTF was in 92 in LA. The police were absent, the people who had to defend themselves were not in fire fights they were defending their property against looters.

Losing personal property could be the least of concern when SHTF.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

Depends on where,when, and how you think SHTF will happen.

During riots and escalating looting after

That's just the first month of
If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.

This projection is wise beyond your years.
Best to occupy the worst location the world has to offer, or tunnel deep.

Heraclitusstudent says

That's just the first month of

If you want to survive the first year, a weapon won't help you.

There will be roaming armed bands looking for food. More than you can handle alone.