patrick.net

When you say things like "we are the ones waiting for them to die," and cite blogs that talk about the "deep resentment that Gen X and Gen Y & have for the Boomers," I'm just not so sure that these feelings represent any kind of majority of how any generation feels about any other generation. The very idea of blaming an entire generation (with such fire and brimstone) for the actions of a handful of decision makers, who happen to be in the same age category, is absurd.

I get that Boomers in power made choices that foreordained our current economic climate, but how can you have deep resentment over something that wasn't intentional? Do you believe that every Boomer was part of some great plan to destroy the lives of their children and grandchildren -- and themselves -- simply to live better in 1980 and generate wealth for a few of their fellow Boomers? Do you believe that the Boomers, in general, were completely unaffected by what happened? Do you believe that we are the only ones to get a raw deal based on decisions made by the previous generation?

I wonder how the folks who were between ages 20 and 30 in 1929 felt about their preceding generation?

Rather than try to churn up a lynch mob for the Boomers, perhaps our talents would be better spent finding solutions. We're now the age that the Boomers were in the 80's and 90's. How will our succeeding generations view us? Do we really want to be coined the, "It wasn't our fault" generation?

Damn Baby Boomers forced Xers to overload their asses on debt.
When the Xers all agree to vote as one mind to change things I won't call them fuckwads. Wait! They will never vote as one so they will probably die as fuckwads.
They are probably incapable of understanding "NO DEBT".

"But I want it." "I need it." "I deserve it"

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gen-x-and-y-lead-us-trend-as-a-nation-of-debtors-191799921.html

Generation X

Average mortgage debt of $181,706 (over 21% above the US average)
Average student loan debt of $44,270 (82.2% higher than US average)
Average credit card debt of $8,801 (over 22% higher than US average)

Call it Crazy says

HEY YOU says

Generation X

Average mortgage debt of $181,706 (over 21% above the US average)

Average student loan debt of $44,270 (82.2% higher than US average)

Average credit card debt of $8,801 (over 22% higher than US average)

It must really suck when someone holds a gun to your head and FORCES you to sign all those loan documents....

Clearly you haven't had to look for an entry level job with no degree or experience in quite a while.

curious2 says

Are there many job listings that specify they are looking for people born between the 1960s and 1980s?

No. They are stupid, but they're not extremely, post-head-trauma stupid.

When they want senior people for role X, or a manager for role Y, they usually have a certain age cohort in mind. They don't want a 56-year-old, but they don't want a 34-year-old, either. Often, managers hire according to their preconceived image of the person for the role, and age is part of that description.

Ageism is for real. It works for you and against you your whole life. The human mind loves stereotypes, because - to quote The Onion - stereotypes save time.

turtledove says

How will our succeeding generations view us? Do we really want to be coined the, "It wasn't our fault" generation?

Yes, apparently some around here do want to be known for that. But I agree entirely.

I think people like jojo are just trolloing the boomers. Either that or he's really really stupid. I put him on ignore right out of the box, when I saw the way he thinks (or rather doesn't).

Indiana Jones says

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/face-it/201103/do-boomers-listen-when-gen-x-and-yers-talk

"Do boomers listen when gen xers and gen yers talk ?"

I'm a boomer and I alwatys did. In fact I never even label people as being a particular generation.

But I just learned that apparently I'm at war with younger folks who hate me just because of my age. So, as of yesterday, I think I might have to listen to them a lot less, at least if this dumbass trend catches on.

I am not the author of these articles, I am citing them. They are on the web free for anyone to read. This does not mean I plan on executing the boomers one by one if I ever get the chance.

What I am hoping for is for the Generation X voice to be heard. For Boomers to stop discounting and getting defensive over every Gen X dissenting opinion it has with the Boomers. For Boomers to collectively take responsibility for their part in the mess that is the world today. For Boomers to stop blaming the Gen Xers, Gen Yers and Millenials for things that were definitely not their fault. ex. Millenials don't work because they are lazy and just want to live in the parent's basement & Gen Xers just want to spend lavishly, that is why they are in so much debt. For Boomers to start to let go of the control and power so Gen Xers have a chance to lead and make some changes before the Gen X generation gets too old and dies off too. Clinton was 46 years old when he became president, which is within the current age group of Gen X.

I am churning up no lynch mob. As if. I doubt the majority feels the way that those in the blogs do, but there are some. I never said Gen X was the only generation getting a raw deal. Obviously the media has stated over and over the Millenials are getting screwed. I want to let people know Gen X also got screwed, because Gen X tends to be overlooked.

Things need to change, drastically. Can Gen X make the changes that need to happen? Can they work with the other generations to accomplish this? I don't know, but they haven't had much of a chance yet to try. So far, Boomers seem to be fine with the status quo.

Call it Crazy says

Wow, you can run up that type of debt without a entry level job without a degree or experience?? What an accomplishment!!!

Just think how much can be run up with a college degree and a few years of work experience!!

WINNING!!

Sure you can, just like you boomers did leveraging on stocks poised to crash in 2008.

The difference is you were able to declare bankruptcy.

Come to think of it in your day you could declare bankruptcy to get out of student loan debt too. And you did in droves, which is why the bankruptcy laws are so much more strict now.

Call it Crazy says

Gen X and Gen Y are just a bunch of entitlement mindset whiners......

You remind me of the old crotchedy next door neighbor that steals the kid's ball when it lands in his yard. The one that tells the stories about having to walk 10 miles to school each day in the freezing cold, uphill both ways.

Call it Crazy says

New Renter says

The difference is you were able to declare bankruptcy.

Come to think of it in your day you could declare bankruptcy to get out of student loan debt too. And you did in droves, which is why the bankruptcy laws are so much more strict now.

No, the difference was we weren't stupid and DIDN'T load up on $100K of student loan debt....

Like I said, who held a gun to your head and FORCED you to sign for $25K a year of college debt???

Now that you realize you fucked up, it's time to blame others for YOUR poor decisions.... Nice!!

Was loading up on 100k worth of student loan debt, even an option for boomers?

As a gen-Y'er, I was duped into university. As my fourth semester came to a close, I had seen all I needed to see, to know it was time to exit that scam. You know, the scam that boomer guidance counselers rammed down our throats in the schools.

Luckily, I was able to purge my bad debt via chapter 7 bk, by tranferring the loans onto credit cards and personal loans, before filing :)

If the Mill X Y er's haven't figured out how to transfer student debt to a HELOC, default and live rent free for at least five years, then declare bankruptcy, then there is nothing more our system can do for them.

Call it Crazy says

Ceffer says

If the Mill X Y er's haven't figured out how to transfer student debt to a HELOC, default and live rent free for at least five years, then declare bankruptcy, then there is nothing more our system can do for them.

See... there is a solution!!!

Sorry Grandpa, unless the banks start making jumbo loans to unemployed strawberry pickers again this isn't an option.

New Renter says

Clearly you haven't had to look for an entry level job with no degree or experience in quite a while.

Even a number of years ago, those with engineering/applied science BS degrees, but without internship/CO-OP experiences, almost never got called back for a 2nd interview.

I'd even known a few magna cum laudes in that category, who'd spent their summers working at JC Penny or doing ppl's lawns, and ended up jobless upon graduation, outside of course, the JC Pennys.

Since I'd gone through the above, even having to have to volunteer during frosh year summer at a lab facility, just to get that first line item experience on the classic R&D *entry level* resume, I'm surprised that Millenials don't even start to think about this stuff, until nearer to graduation.

Call it Crazy says

Rin says

I'm surprised that Millenials don't even start to think about this stuff, until nearer to graduation.

They don't think of it EVER!!!

They expect that $60K job the day after graduation, just because they "deserve" it...

As a GenXer, I don't get it.

I'd seen a number of persons, all get blasted aparted, during that senior year, when the Proctor & Gambles, Applied Materials, IBMs, DuPonts, etc, had sent them that thin envelope.

You see, job outplacement is not like getting into a graduate school. One can get into some Masters program, by having a 3.0 GPA, sometimes even less.

For many corporate parachutes, they only use the grades to pre-screen the candidates. Afterwards, no internships = no follow up interview. They simply don't want green people, even for an entry level job. I'd even argue that it's easier to get into a US medical school, since most ppl apply to some 15-20, then it is to get a job at various R&D labs.

Rin says

They simply don't want green people, even for an entry level job. I'd even argue that it's easier to get into a US medical school, since most ppl apply to some 15-20, then it is to get a job at various R&D labs.

BTW, this is why I encourage STEM graduates to apply for MD programs. Almost all MDs can find some work, even if it's in some Indian Reservation in western North Dakota.

Call it Crazy says

There are many good paying jobs that don't require ANY degrees

True, there are some very lucrative options available:

1) hooker
2) drug dealer
3) thug
4) Social media CEO and oligarch
5) medical test subject
6) unpaid intern (might get tips)
7) yam farmer (yams will be traded weight for weight for gold)

did I miss any?

New Renter says

did I miss any?

Day Trader

And if you're successful, you'll get hired by a prop trading company.

sbh says

New Renter says

did I miss any?

any other strawmen? I'm sure there's a ton. How old are you? How's your physical health? I could train you to do timber inventory in one month and if you had any ambition and any grit pay you $30 an hour (as many hours as you can cram down your beak) until you got your sole proprietorship. In three years you could gross 100k if you wanted to. Or not. I don't want to train you and you don't want to be a grunt.

Could you train me? Sure!

Would someone hire me? HR sez not without a degree.

Rin says

New Renter says

did I miss any?

Day Trader

And if you're successful, you'll get hired by a prop trading company.

And somehow I also forgot flipping shacks - tisk tisk..

Good point sbh. Plumber, electrician, machinist, pipe fitter, mechanic, mason, carpenter, carpet layer, balustrade-constructor, etc etc. All of these jobs can make reasonable money, some quite a lot more than the afforementioned $60k.
I graduated in STEM with $50k debt, saw the light, and went blue collar. I make a very good living, at least twice what I could aspire to in my educated field.

Quigley says

All of these jobs can make reasonable money, some quite a lot more than the afforementioned $60k.

I graduated in STEM with $50k debt, saw the light, and went blue collar.

I knew an Electrical Engineering masters degree person, who'd become an electrician, after getting beaten down by his adviser in graduate school.

He had no parachute, upon graduation, like a Raytheon, GE, or Texas Inst, so instead, he was able to become a junior apprentice. Well, it's worked out for him. I think he's clearly making a low six figure salary now and has a control over his hours. The thing is that he could have done all of that, without a BS/MS in EE.

sbh says

New Renter says

Would someone hire me?

If you're serious, I know a guy. Do you want his name. He runs forestry grads fresh out of school. Piecework, baby! They go up into the woods young and strong.......and drop like fuckin' flies.....it knocks their dick in the dirt. School doesn't teach you how to work. You do that on your own. Anyway, you want the name of the guy? He's an asshole.

I know someone who might. He has a bachelors degree but can't find a local job that pays the rent much less anything else so he's going back to his former gig of long distance trucking.

He had his own gardening service for many years so yes, he has

worked 10 hours in raingear when it's 40 degrees and full of wet brush on a 50% slope

and worse.

sbh says

He's an asshole.

Sounds like a really neat opportunity.

The thing about such jobs is that if you weren't an asshole to start with, they'll turn you into one!

sbh says

Indiana Jones says

For Boomers to start to let go of the control and power so Gen Xers have a chance to lead and make some changes before the Gen X generation gets too old and dies

Explain this a little more for me please; specifically how anyone should systematically dis-empower themselves.

No disempowerment needed: RETIRE! RETIRE! Please, just &*~*% RETIRE!

BTW, SBH, thank you for leading the way by retiring.

Quigley says

The thing about such jobs is that if you weren't an asshole to start with, they'll turn you into one!

Survival of the assholiest!

sbh says

BTW, SBH, thank you for leading the way by retiring.

As I tell my wife, there is no reason to have worked so bloody hard if you don't stop and spend the money. The problem, Indy, is that I don't stop voting. I don't have enough money to buy a Congressman, so there really is no shift in power. Besides, forest management is going the way of the dodo. To get the power you talk about you'll have to take it.

Am I reading this right or are you suggesting, ahem…Revolution?!

Revolution with the above suggestions would be a powerful force. As long as we are united and eager to sacrifice, we can be the change we want to see in the world.

hrhjuliet says

Revolution with the above suggestions would be a powerful force. As long as we are united and eager to sacrifice, we can be the change we want to see in the world.

I agree with a peaceful revolution. Anything else would be suicide. The oligarchs can buy way more arms and foot soldiers than we ever could. We need to get into the streets and gum up their works. Shut cities down with masses of people, particularly the larger, more economically important cities. Violence will only give the corporate media the images it craves to pain any resistance as hoodlums and terrorists. Disciplined, peaceful protest will give us a better chance.

futuresmc says

hrhjuliet says

Revolution with the above suggestions would be a powerful force. As long as we are united and eager to sacrifice, we can be the change we want to see in the world.

I agree with a peaceful revolution. Anything else would be suicide. The oligarchs can buy way more arms and foot soldiers than we ever could. We need to get into the streets and gum up their works. Shut cities down with masses of people, particularly the larger, more economically important cities. Violence will only give the corporate media the images it craves to pain any resistance as hoodlums and terrorists. Disciplined, peaceful protest will give us a better chance.

I agree an armed revolution would be a once sided battle under most conceivable circumstances. It is also unnecessary.

A better form of protest is with your pocketbook.

1) If you haven't already transfer your money from banks, especially banks with high fees to a credit union.

2) Don't watch anything owned by Newscorp and let their sponsors know you will not buy their products as long as they advertise on the programs you feel are misleading the American public the most. When people talk about something erroneous they "learned" from Newscorp let them know (civilly) they've been lied to and offer proof.

3) Familiarize yourself with the holding of the worst of the oligarchs and buy appropriately. For instance the Kock Brothers own Georgia Pacific pulp who makes the following products:

* Angel Soft, Quilted Northern, and Soft n' Gentle are toilet paper and facial tissue brands.
* Blue Ribbon, Clutter Cutter, DensArmor Plus, DensDeck, DensGlass, DensShield, DryPly, FireGuard, GP Lam, Hushboard, Nautilus, Ply-Bead, Plytanium, Southern Gold, Sta-Strait, Thermostat, ToughRock, Wood I Beam, and XJ 85 are building and remodeling brands.
* Brawny, Dixie, Insulair, Mardi Gras, PerfecTouch, Sparkle, Ultra, and Vanity Fair are tableware, paper towel and napkin brands.
* Advantage, Image Plus, and Spectrum are office paper brands.

If you don't like the politics of the Koch brothers avoid buying these brands as well as the products of anything else they touch.

This is not easy, oligarchs already own everything. Still with time and enough of a movement we may be able to diminish the influence of the worst of them.

Call it Crazy says

futuresmc says

Anything else would be suicide. The oligarchs can buy way more arms and foot soldiers than we ever could.

I don't think that's actually true.... Reflect back on how one guy (his name was Dorner) tied up huge police resources when they were looking for him in CA. Also, look back at those two brothers who did the Boston Marathon bombing. They also tied up a boat load of LEO resources....

If a bunch of organized groups decide to take matters in their own hands, the local LEO could do nothing about it....

I think the oligarchs woudl depend on private armies like Eric Prince and Blackwater. Those guys would not be required to be nice in hunting down enemies of the oligarchs. The oligarchs also have a massive propaganda machine to whitewash any travesties committed in the prosecution of such freedom fighters/terrorists:

Remember Michael Hastings?

http://www.sandiego6.com/story/details-of-reporter-hastings-death-remain-elusive-20130708

That is the method I'd guess woudl be used to deal with any significant individual threat.

sbh says

New Renter says

* Angel Soft, Quilted Northern, and Soft n' Gentle are toilet paper and facial tissue brands.

Whew! I'm a real toilet paper snob and have to have my Charmin. Hate the Kochs. Dodged a bullet there.

Well there's something else we have in common :)

jojo says

Nuclear reactor meltdown etc.

So how are things in Japan these days?

The pocketbook insurgency hasn't happened although that has floated for years. Either consumers are just not educated enough, or they don't care. Face it, if money is tight, you are going to buy whatever is the best deal or whatever is on sale. Many do not have the luxury of buying with their conscience. Look at the amazing rise of the dollar stores.

Peaceful protest need high numbers and strong insightful leadership to work. All it takes is someone on the fringe to do something stupid or violent and all the peaceful intentions get chucked out the window. And most people are placated with government handouts, tv, roku, video games and endless and cheap fast food--why the hell should anything change?

Because of the reliance of all things technical, might technology play a part in disabling those that hold the cards?