patrick.net

Plenty of kids have awful parents who are neglectful or uncaring or even malicious and capricious in their parenting of the innocents. Children have the fewest rights of any class, and I feel sorry for kids who are stuck with bad parents. If someone feels they wouldn't make a good parent, perhaps they should decline having kids, no matter what society thinks.

zzyzzx says

rufita11 says

Someone has to raise the kind-hearted kid who's going to wipe your butt if you are unfortunate enough to not die before you experience mental or physical decline.

If current trends continue, if I get old and need to pay someone to change my diaper, it won't be your kid who does it, it will be someone who can't speak English.

Actually, it'll be cybernetic and yes, it'll speak more than just English.

Rin says

With that said, I have no incentive nor motivation to have my own. When I'm an old man, I'll be like Frank Lloyd Wright, constantly writing down ideas and working on things of interest without having a lifelong kid/adult sleeping near my study spaces.

Rin, let me share IMHO, the purpose of life:
The purpose of life is to play your part in the chain of evolution. It includes surviving, and ensuring the survival of your offspring, based on the principal of survival of the fittest.
You are missing out on one of life's greatest pleasure. A day may come when you are sitting alone in an armchair, it is Xmas, and your neighbors and friends are with their families celebrating the holidays. You will end up regretting the decisions you made in your youth.
I would reconsider. @rin

Rin says

Didn't Ben Franklin, sort of regretted having a son, William, as the kid was a loyalist throughout the revolution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Franklin

William Franklin (ca. 1730 – November 1814) was an American soldier, attorney, and colonial administrator, the acknowledged illegitimate son of Benjamin Franklin. He was appointed as the last Colonial Governor of New Jersey (1763–76). Franklin was a steadfast Loyalist throughout the American War of Independence. As his father (Benjamin Franklin) was one of the most prominent Patriots and a Founding Father of the United States, their differences caused an irreconcilable break between them.

Following imprisonment during the war, in 1782 the younger Franklin went into exile in Britain. He lived in London until his death.

But children are our future... if everyone thought like you we'd be extinct in a generation.

In all seriousness.. if you don't want to have kids that's perfectly fine! I actually think you should need to get a license to have children... required training, parental classes, and a mental health evaluation.

Strategist says

The purpose of life is to play your part in the chain of evolution. It includes surviving, and ensuring the survival of your offspring, based on the principal of survival of the fittest.

My sister has a child. My family's lineage has been preserved for the sake of posterity.

Now, that girl is a b*tch and her mom is hysterical. The dad, my brother-in-law, is best friends with a person named Jack Daniels.

Would I trade my current & future life, for his? Hell no!

Rin says

As for kids, now that I've been tutoring my friend's children in academics, as well as a few stints at HSs, I'm not convinced that I can impress my value system upon others. Either they have it or they don't.

By high school, you've already lost the game. By the time they hit low double-digit ages, they either have their head straight or they don't.

That's why early intervention is so important to our education system -- even before kindergarten. Unfortunately, our politicians refuse to recognize this because it's difficult to implement, so they throw money at stupid programs that don't work.

Rin says

Strategist says

The purpose of life is to play your part in the chain of evolution. It includes surviving, and ensuring the survival of your offspring, based on the principal of survival of the fittest.

My sister has a child. My family's lineage has been preserved for the sake of posterity.

Now, that girl is a b*tch and her mom is hysterical. The dad, my brother-in-law, is best friends with a person named Jack Daniels.

Would I trade my current & future life, for his? Hell no!

You don't have to trade anything for his life. Having kids does not mean you end up like them.
Having kids is the greatest pleasure of all. When I used to change diapers, I would go yuck yuck yuck, this stinks, I hate it. But I also told my wife, one day we will look back and say "this is one of the best times of our lives" I was right.
Today, I enjoy a new phase of my life with my family, and I absolutely love it.

Given the expenses of incarceration and welfare, why not pay people to sterilize themselves. Extra money for those with felonies, who had kids prior to 18, HS dropouts.

Strategist says

Having kids does not mean you end up like them.

Sorry to say it, but the odds are against most ppl. Did you not know that the divorce is now over 50%? And more often than not, the breakup occurs after having children. Yes, these are real people, some of them are friends and acquaintances.

Call it Crazy says

Rin says

Now, that girl is a b*tch and her mom is hysterical. The dad, my brother-in-law, is best friends with a person named Jack Daniels.

You hit it right there... Kids are a victim of the environment they grow up in, they don't know any better at young ages...

Dysfunctional parents are usually why the kids are screwed up..

And the saddest part is that the brother-in-law doesn't believe in divorce.

Thus, I'm anticipating that his health will deteriorate and he'll be dead of a stroke (or heart attack) by his late 50s, instead of facing the facts of his life. And that's that he's miserable.

Rin says

Call it Crazy says

Rin says

Now, that girl is a b*tch and her mom is hysterical. The dad, my brother-in-law, is best friends with a person named Jack Daniels.

You hit it right there... Kids are a victim of the environment they grow up in, they don't know any better at young ages...

Dysfunctional parents are usually why the kids are screwed up..

And the saddest part is that the brother-in-law doesn't believe in divorce.

Thus, I'm anticipating that his health will deteriorate and he'll be dead of a stroke (or heart attack) by his late 50s, instead of facing the facts of his life. And that's that he's miserable.

Get him a $1 million insurance policy, and offer him lots of Jack Daniel - I mean lots.

Then they really are not your friends.....

Rin says

I can't make fun of my friends in front of them.

With the left funded war on xmas gaining steam, this should not be a concern for future generations.

Strategist says

A day may come when you are sitting alone in an armchair, it is Xmas, and your neighbors and friends are with their families celebrating the holidays.

already been through it twice...hard on the sick, hard on the kids....
Yeah, lets all sign up to be put on life support for the greater part of a decade so we can see what bed sores and feeding tubes are all about..

When faced with the reality of your impending demise, it is hard for one to adhere to rational thought.

I have the utmost respect for those who make the decision to move on, through a living will, if/when they become hopelessly entrapped in a slowly dying body, before they degrade to the point where that decision is not possible.

I also do not hold accountable those who go against their previously stated rational thought and reach out to cling to whatever little of a hell life awaits them when placed in the hopeless situation. That is just a natural response.

From where I sit now, it's a shitload of pain for both the sick one and the surrounding family. It doesn't seem worth it for either party.

Heraclitusstudent says

SoftShell says

Why put yourself and others through the horror of a long death?

Sounds somewhat selfish to me....

We'll see how you do it when your time comes.

SoftShell says

With the left funded war on xmas gaining steam, this should not be a concern for future generations.

Strategist says

A day may come when you are sitting alone in an armchair, it is Xmas, and your neighbors and friends are with their families celebrating the holidays.

We're also talking ... the future here.

We'll have android versions of Rudolph the Reindeer, Santa Claus, and the Abominable snowman.

I'm not at all worried about being alone.

Gee, I thought that taking a massive genetic shit on society and releasing them at the age of six with their own beer and cigarettes was a Constitutional right.

Just vacation in Denver over the holidaze with a fishpump powered water bong and a high rockies mountain mamma...

Rin says

We're also talking ... the future here.

We'll have android versions of Rudolph the Reindeer, Santa Claus, and the Abominable snowman.

I'm not at all worried about being alone.

Rin says

I'm not at all worried about being alone.

I guess once we're all uploaded in computers, we'll be free of the protoplasm, the urge to reproduce and decaying bodies.

Or maybe there will be a way to do it virtually in a computer.

Heraclitusstudent says

Rin says

I'm not at all worried about being alone.

I guess once we're all uploaded in computers, we'll be free of the protoplasm, the urge to reproduce and decaying bodies.

Or maybe there will be a way to do it virtually in a computer.

Now you're talking. This is what I mean by creativity and thinking outside of the box.

Heraclitusstudent says

I guess it was only a matter of time before some life forms become so smart, narcissistic and self-centered they decide they are the ultimate result of evolution and all that matters is their personal satisfaction, their wealth accumulation, their jobs - and (high-end) strippers of course.

Um, becoming a parent is the most narcissistic thing you can do. There are 7, soon to be 10, billion people on the planet. The Earth does not need you to crap out kids. If you do so, you're doing it for your own benefit, not anyone else's.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have children, but don't give me the bullshit that having children is a noble venture. It's not.

SoftShell says

Tribal thinking is why you are alive typing today.

Why do you hate evolution?

Evolution requires change. We no longer live in the Stone Age environment. We live in the nuclear age. Continuing to act like it's the Stone Age is a surefire way to cause the extinction of mankind.

It's not that I hate evolution. It's that, unlike you, I understand it.

Dan8267 says

Um, becoming a parent is the most narcissistic thing you can do.

You are right, in a 2nd order way, it is narcissistic. But it is not selfish. Not compared to spending your life for your own pleasure and self-satisfaction.

And no, it's not a question of it being a noble venture, though once you undertake it, it's a pretty critical task.
It's a lot of work, stress, sleep deprivation and money.

Did anyone read this book: "Stumbling on happiness"?
One of the point the author makes is how bad we are at thinking ahead what will make us happy.

Which is why I think people here spend way too much time thinking about these things.
Life has already been invented and perfected. There is a pattern to it. Go with that. Don't go for the shallow modern pleasures.

Rin says

Now you're talking. This is what I mean by creativity and thinking outside of the box.

I was talking of the end of humanity.

Strategic Renter says

Family is all that matters. Everything else is just noise.

This.

I used to not want to have kids, but last year I got married and we now have a 6 month old girl.

It's the best thing to ever happen to me. I absolutely love it.

Heraclitusstudent says

Not compared to spending your life for your own pleasure and self-satisfaction.

Rin hardly comes off as saying he's spending his life own his own "pleasure and self-satisfaction". He sounds like he wants to spend his life doing what he believes is meaningful, and if you want to call that "self-satisfaction" then, really, what's the alternative.

One could say that if a person values world peace and dedicates his life to that cause, the person is pursuing self-satisfaction. But I would not say that's a bad thing. Ultimately, pursing anything you find meaningful is satisfying almost as a truism.

Of course, people will disagree on what is meaningful, but ultimately each individual has to make this decision for himself. I follow the Richard Feynman philosophy, What do you care what other people think?.

Dan8267 says

Rin hardly comes off as saying he's spending his life own his own "pleasure and self-satisfaction". He sounds like he wants to spend his life doing what he believes is meaningful, and if you want to call that "self-satisfaction" then, really, what's the alternative.

I believe that these are the types of ppl, who basically see kids, as extensions, psychologically or spiritually, of themselves. Thus, the credo is raise a family and suddenly, as a person, you're larger than yourself. I look at it as Taoism for mainstreamers, who'd failed at becoming Shaolin (or Samurai) or didn't even have the gumption to get started.

In reality, most ppl have no purpose to their lives. Sure, have kids. And there you have it ... a culturally sanctioned purpose.

But if you're different and decide that you'd rather write your great American novel... and then what? You get the label of a Hemingway or Melville wannabe. That's not good enough for mainstreamers, who needs approval for their day to day actions.

Realize, Melville's fame, came long after his death. The important thing is that while he was around, that he was writing.

Rin says

But if you're different and decide that you'd rather write your great American novel... and then what? You get the label of a Hemingway or Melville wannabe.

Interesting argument considering Hemingway and Melville both had children. Maybe a strong experience of life is necessary to write good novels?

CrazyMan says

last year I got married and we now have a 6 month old girl.

It's the best thing to ever happen to me. I absolutely love it.

How could we know you're telling the truth?

Inevitably, many people have children and regret doing so, some quite deeply. How often do you hear someone admit this?

They simply can't, because it's one of the least acceptable statements one can make in polite society. And it's not a decision you can back out of, so you're more likely to list what you like about it, than the downsides.

Heraclitusstudent says

Interesting argument considering Hemingway and Melville both had children.

The point is that no one cares about Melville's children.

And remember the Ben Franklin to William Franklin situation

zzyzzx says

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Franklin

William Franklin (ca. 1730 – November 1814) was an American soldier, attorney, and colonial administrator, the acknowledged illegitimate son of Benjamin Franklin. He was appointed as the last Colonial Governor of New Jersey (1763–76). Franklin was a steadfast Loyalist throughout the American War of Independence. As his father (Benjamin Franklin) was one of the most prominent Patriots and a Founding Father of the United States, their differences caused an irreconcilable break between them.

Following imprisonment during the war, in 1782 the younger Franklin went into exile in Britain. He lived in London until his death.

Dan8267 says

Rin hardly comes off as saying he's spending his life own his own "pleasure and self-satisfaction".

You mean outside the discussions on what city has the best strippers?
(apparently Team USA (as in Vegas/Reno) sucks, literally)

/?p=1245274

Rin says

at's exactly what Ben Franklin did

Senator, you're no Ben Franklin.

HydroCabron says

Inevitably, many people have children and regret doing so, some quite deeply. How often do you hear someone admit this?

They simply can't, because it's one of the least acceptable statements one can make in polite society

I knew a few who finally did admit that it was a mistake.

But yeah, it was in their 70s, after everyone had left the home and they finally parted ways with the misses.

Heraclitusstudent says

You mean outside the discussions on what city has the best strippers?

Oh ... so now you're advocating celibacy or some 'meaningful' relationship?

Plus, have you heard of measured dosage?

Heraclitusstudent says

Dan8267 says

Rin hardly comes off as saying he's spending his life own his own "pleasure and self-satisfaction".

You mean outside the discussions on what city has the best strippers?

(apparently Team USA (as in Vegas/Reno) sucks, literally)

/?p=1245274

I know, right!?

What kind of ASSHOLE won't conform to a monogamous relationship, filled with years of changing shitty diapers. What a real jerk

His hatred of motherhood is Obama's Katrina.

Having children is fairly easy and I'd agree with Dan that it's not inherently a noble venture.
However, being a good parent is always a noble thing to do. You can be a parent to kids that aren't your genetic offspring. You can be a parent to a niece or nephew or cousin who needs someone decent in their life. The reward for this is not found in how the children change but in how the self sacrifice changes you.

errc says

I know, right!?

What kind of ASSHOLE won't conform to a monogamous relationship, filled with years of changing shitty diapers. What a real jerk

The average professional male is suppose to want to be Society's B*tch.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/icmRCixQrx8

lakermania says

Perfect ... slobs vs the snobs, final outcome, much of the same.