patrick.net

This view is shortsighted.
It was ingenious to lay out a decades long plan to create a country all the worlds terrorists could flock to and become citizens of.
Once all the players are in place, you nuke it and the age of terrorism fades away to nothingness.
Make room on rushmore for another three heads...

Dan8267 says

I think we can finally answer the question of whether or not Iraq and the world are better for Bush's lie-based war to get rid of Saddam with a resounding hell no.

ISIS - Insanely Sick Insanely Sick.
So bad they named it twice.

An Egyptian goddess. Picture of her, right here.

Isn't it a fictional spy organization in Archer?

They aren't called ISIS anymore. They should be called ISIL, though they call themselves IS.

Isis was an Egyptian goddess of health, marriage, and love.

A bunch of mad deranged crackpots who want to take the world back to the 10th century??

But I still wonder, if they are a creation of the CIA that went rogue like the Taliban??

Iraq??

Does that explain why many of ISIS fighters are foreign based? These are just deranged lunatics...many living amongst us, who want to brutalize people.

Damn they grew big tomatoes back then....

curious2 says

Isis was an Egyptian goddess of health, marriage, and love.

lostand confused says

A bunch of mad deranged crackpots who want to take the world back to the 10th century??

But I still wonder, if they are a creation of the CIA that went rogue like the Taliban??

You really need to get over "it's all our fault" syndrome.

sbh says

Strategist says

lostand confused says

A bunch of mad deranged crackpots who want to take the world back to the 10th century??

But I still wonder, if they are a creation of the CIA that went rogue like the Taliban??

You really need to get over "it's all our fault" syndrome.

You need to recognize your denial of those times it is our fault. It's never always just one way. That kind of thinking puts you in the same camp as the extremists you detest.

You have Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram and the countless different terrorist groups all over the globe, not because of something we did, but because that is what their holy book tells them to do. Islam was spread by the sword through the centuries by exactly these types of groups well before America was even discovered.
Just look at what they are doing to the Christian Yazidis. Behead the men, and take the women and children as slaves. Are you guys saying it's our fault? That because we invaded Iraq, they were so distressed, so overcome by grief, that those poor ISIS guys had no choice but to engage in these kinds of barbaric acts.
This 'its all our fault' 'if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone' thinking is irrational, short sighted, and extremely dangerous. Get over it.

Portal says

These are just deranged lunatics

So they are conservatives.

Dan8267 says

ISIS is the legacy of the Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II administrations.

Damnnnn that's a deep well....

And COLD too!

SoftShell says

This view is shortsighted.

The video justifies the view. Reagan's arming of Al Qaeda and Bush's removal of Saddam directly led to the formation and success of ISIS. You simply don't want the public to realize that Republican foreign policy has created the very terrorist organizations we fear.

Call it Crazy says

You spend Waayyyyyy toooooo much time on Youtube!!!!!!

It's not how much television or YouTube you watch. It's what television or YouTube you watch.

Watching informative documentary, in depth news coverage, and educational videos is always a good thing. Watching reality t.v., celebrity gossip, Fox News, and alien autopsies is always a bad thing.

It's the content, not the media.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

A muslim REALTOR association.

Close, but they are actually bankers. And no, I'm actually not kidding about this. As the video says, they seized banks and they launder money through these banks.

Essentially, ISIS is an Islamic Goldman Sachs.

Dan8267 says

The video justifies the view. Reagan's arming of Al Qaeda and Bush's removal of Saddam directly led to the formation and success of ISIS. You simply don't want the public to realize that Republican foreign policy has created the very terrorist organizations we fear.

Yes, and the current Admin's destablization campaign against Assad.

ISIS with Hummer, Iraq.

Strategist says

lostand confused says

A bunch of mad deranged crackpots who want to take the world back to the 10th century??

But I still wonder, if they are a creation of the CIA that went rogue like the Taliban??

You really need to get over "it's all our fault" syndrome.

Don't listen to Strategist. According to him, pointing out any mistake America has made is treason. If we listen to him, America would never learn from its mistakes and would be doomed to repeat them, endless inflicting self-harm.

Pretending that your government does no wrong is the most unpatriotic thing you can do. It would turn America into North Korea.

Strategist says

Just look at what they are doing to the Christian Yazidis. Behead the men, and
take the women and children as slaves. Are you guys saying it's our fault? That
because we invaded Iraq, they were so distressed, so overcome by grief, that
those poor ISIS guys had no choice but to engage in these kinds of barbaric
acts.
This 'its all our fault' 'if we leave them alone, they will leave us
alone' thinking is irrational, short sighted, and extremely dangerous. Get over
it.

Exactly.

Slow thinkers like Dan really have a racist view of Arabs and Muslims believing that they are simple animals or children
with NO RESPONSIBILITY for their actions.

It's always about America.

Some liberals simply can't take ISIS and Al Qaeda at their word and believe that these groups are motivated completely by Islam to establish a Caliphate where they can live like cave-men and commit genocide unmolested.

So America gets blamed no matter what. America was blamed by Al Qaeda (and dopey Leftists) before 9/11 for supporting dictators like Mubarak, Saudis and even Saddam for keeping the boot on the Jihadis neck - which apparently radicalized Muslims to hate America.

Since 9/11, America has supported the majority Shia in Iraq, the majority Sunnis in Syria, the majority of Afghans against the Taliban - and now we are being blamed for no longer supporting dictators for "stability" and letting the Jihadis run loose.

Dan8267 says

The video justifies the view. Reagan's arming of Al Qaeda and Bush's removal of
Saddam directly led to the formation and success of ISIS.

ISIS started and is based in Syria.

Are you saying that we should have liberated Syria when we liberated Iraq of Sunni Baathist dictatorship?

Or are you now saying that America should have kept supporting genocidal dictators like Saddam and Assad for "stability" to keep the Jihadi menace at a low boil?

If you choose the latter, how long do you think they could keep a lid on suppressing the majority populations without major uprisals we have seen all over the Region in the last few years? Don't you think the massively unfair governing structures under Saddam and Assad drove normally moderate people into ISIS' camp against the regimes?

Personally, I rather see the Region sort itself out now with more representative governance before more and more of these groups get access to nukes or other WMDs.

socal2 says

Some liberals simply can't take ISIS and Al Qaeda at their word and believe that these groups are motivated completely by Islam to establish a Caliphate where they can live like cave-men and commit genocide unmolested.

A list of the "it's-different-this-time Worst People Evah" of the past 35 years:

0) 1978: Sovyet Unyun OMG Worst People Evah GODLESS TOTALITARIAN ROGUE STATE

1) 1979: Ayatollah ZOMG WTF Worst People Evah HOSTAGES ANIMALS PIGS!

2) 1985: Abu Nidal ZOMFG WTH Worst People Evah TERRORIST ARSEHOLE

2.5) 1989: Manuel "Pineapple Face" Noriega Worst People Evah KILLER DICTATOR INVADE INVADE INVADE

3) 1990: Sodom Hussein OMFG FU Worst People Evah RAPE ROOMS EXECUTION BURN PEOPLE ALIVE EAT BABIES GAS EVERYONE HOLY SHIT

4) 1992: Bill Clinton FU OMG Worst People Evah DIRTY BASTARD WHITEWHATEVER HOLY HELL TRAVEL OFFICE MONICA MONICA BLUE DRESS MARC RICH PARDON HE DESTROYED AMERICA RAPED LADY LIBERTY

5) 2001: Osama Bin Laden Taliban ZOMG ZOMG UNBELIEVABLE Worst People Evah IT'S DIFFERENT THIS TIME LET'S GET SODOM FOR THIS RAPE ROOMS SODOM EATS BABIEZ

6) 2009: Kenyan Warlord OMG OMG RED ALERT Worst People Evah DESTROYED MURKA 4EVAH RIP

7) 2014: ISIS Worst People Evah RAPE MURDER NUKEM NUKEM NUKEM BEHEADING BASTARDS

I believe these boys in category 7 are out to establish a caliphate. However, some Americans (Murkins) might be getting a little tired/confused after being told all these years that so-and-so is a different kind of evil, of particularly malign and savage intentions, unknown in history until now.

We should probably exterminate ISIS - they seem to be truly awful. It gets pretty tiring being told over and over that group/person X is SUPAH-BAD UNPRECEDENTED EVIL and justifies extraordinary measures, year after year, decade after decade.

socal2 says

Or are you

I'm not saying any of the words you want to put in my mouth. I'm saying that we should be building schools, not bombing them. We should be creating infrastructure in the Middle East, not destroying it.

The ONLY way to defeat Islamic terrorism is to ensure that the next generation of women in the Middle East grow up educated and financially secure. Do this and all Islamic extremism will crumble, and the terrorists know this. This is why they are so fearful of girls going to schools.

Dan8267 says

I'm saying that we should be building schools, not bombing them. We should be
creating infrastructure in the Middle East, not destroying it.

The ONLY way to defeat Islamic terrorism is to ensure that the next
generation of women in the Middle East grow up educated and financially secure.
Do this and all Islamic extremism will crumble, and the terrorists know this.
This is why they are so fearful of girls going to schools.

Fuck dude - have you read ANYTHING that has been going on in Iraq, Afghanistan or even Nigeria in the last 10 years? You really think we have been bombing schools instead of spending BILLIONS to build schools and train teachers?

I totally agree that education of the next generation is massively important to defeating these primitive Klingons.

But how do you do that when the Klingons of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban and Boko Haram are are blowing up schools and kidnapping little girls to be sold into slavery?

You got to bomb the Klingons so the next generation at least has a slight chance of getting educated instead of getting their heads cut off.

BTW - how many thousands of Yazidi lives do you think Obama saved last week by authorizing our military to bomb ISIS positions to allow the Yazidis on the mountain to escape genocide?

Dan8267 says

socal2 says

Or are you

I'm not saying any of the words you want to put in my mouth. I'm saying that we should be building schools, not bombing them. We should be creating infrastructure in the Middle East, not destroying it.

The ONLY way to defeat Islamic terrorism is to ensure that the next generation of women in the Middle East grow up educated and financially secure. Do this and all Islamic extremism will crumble, and the terrorists know this. This is why they are so fearful of girls going to schools.

You have it backwards. The only way to educate all these girls is to first defeat the extremists.

socal2 says

Fuck dude - have you read ANYTHING that has been going on in Iraq, Afghanistan or even Nigeria in the last 10 years? You really think we have been bombing schools instead of spending BILLIONS to build schools and train teachers?

Seven children die as US bombs Afghan school

Seven children died when American aircraft bombed a religious school in an attack against the Taliban in the Afghan province of Paktika, the US army said yesterday.

Perhaps you should read more yourself before accusing others of not reading anything.

Now you can argue whether or not particular attacks by the U.S. on its enemies are justified, but the bottom line is that our government has taken the position that force is the way to curb Islamic militantism and has a long history of killing civilians, including children as young as newborns and pregnant women, in the Middle East. And ultimately, that approach is counter-productive. Slaughtering civilians and destroying infrastructure only serves to support the recruiting efforts of terrorist organizations.

Strategist says

You have it backwards. The only way to educate all these girls is to first defeat the extremists.

And what's the measurement of "defeating the extremists"? Since when does the War on Terror have an exit strategy or a winning condition?

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

You have it backwards. The only way to educate all these girls is to first defeat the extremists.

And what's the measurement of "defeating the extremists"? Since when does the War on Terror have an exit strategy or a winning condition?

My measurement - When they can no longer influence social, economic and political thinking.

Dan8267 says

And what's the measurement of "defeating the extremists"? Since when does the War on Terror have an exit strategy or a winning condition?

When the contractor spend-a-thon runs out. Or, when Cold War 2 begins in the South China (not East Vietnamese) Sea or along the Dneiper instead of the Oder.

Why do we need to support ANY government in the ME? Cash and Carry, I say.

Radical Fundies weren't a fly on the ass of Saddam or Assad before we invaded or destabilized.

The Taliban were glorious freedom fighters against Atheist Totalitarian Commies, supported by who were supported by most of same tribes that today make up the Northern Alliance, before the situation was reversed.

We lost 60,000 to stop Evil Totalitarian Communism from spreading in Asia. Now we subcontract Pantyhose to factories belonging to those very same Evil Totalitarian Communists and their children.

If we outsource all our factories to Asia, they'll become Free and have Democracy.

How can there be anybody who doesn't get it yet: Futzing around elsewhere is a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Jesus Fuck, we sent in the Navy to guard Saddam's tankers while he was gassing the Kurds with Chemical ingredients and know-how we gave him. Then he became Evil!!1!11Eleventy! Hey, anybody have pictures of all those babies taken out of incubators?

Dan8267 says

Fuck dude - have you read ANYTHING that has been going on in Iraq,
Afghanistan or even Nigeria in the last 10 years? You really think we have been
bombing schools instead of spending BILLIONS to build schools and train
teachers?

Seven
children die as US bombs Afghan school

Seven children died when American aircraft bombed a religious school in an
attack against the Taliban in the Afghan province of Paktika, the US army said
yesterday.

Perhaps you should read more yourself before accusing others of not reading
anything.

This is your example from way back in 2007 to make the arbitrary claim that the US is just going around bombing schools for no reason?

From the description of your link, it was a Taliban compound that also had a Madrassa and Mosque in it.

Also from your link: "He claimed that children who survived told American forces they were prevented from leaving and beaten when they tried to do so."

socal2 says

This is your example from way back in 2007 to make the arbitrary claim that the US is just going around bombing schools for no reason?

How about a wedding party bombing not long ago in Yemen?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/gregorydjohnsen/wedding-party-drone-strike

On Dec. 12, 2013, a U.S. drone carried out a strike in Yemen. Little of what happened that day is known with any degree of certainty. Most of the facts are adrift somewhere in the shadowy sea of a classified world. Identities shift and change depending on the vantage point, and what appears true thousands of feet up in the air often looks different on the ground. Following two reviews, the U.S. claims it was a clean strike and that all the dead were militants. Yemen disagrees, calling the attack a tragic mistake that killed civilians. Two countries, two conclusions. But one of them paid the families of the dead men a lot of money.

Yemen is a U.S. ally that says it approves every drone strike, but it is also so strapped for cash that the government has implemented numerous austerity measures. Either it handed out the money and guns to cover for its partner, or the U.S. privately paid money to the families of men it publicly describes as al-Qaeda while simultaneously promoting the man responsible for the strike. In truth, only three things are known for certain: Twelve men are dead, $800,000 in cash was delivered, and the dead can’t be both guilty and innocent.

Hmm,wonder which country paid?

Its a multi-level marketing company, sort of like Herbalife or Amway. You behead an infidel, and then sign up five others to do the same.

thunderlips11 says

Radical Fundies weren't a fly on the ass of Saddam or Assad before we invaded or
destabilized.

Really - is that why Assad's father had to literally demolish the entire city of Hama killing tens of thousands of Sunnis in 1982?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_Massacre

Keep in mind the Sunni Jihadis have been trying to hit us since their first attempt on the WTC in 1993. The US really wasn't mucking around in the Middle East other than supporting Israel and not overthrowing Arab dictators so they can keep a lid on the crazy like you are suggesting we do now.

If you believe Bin Laden, he said 9/11 was in response to the US supporting Arab dictators and Saudi Monarchs over the jihadis.

Isn't it better to not support the dictators and not support the jihadis but to support the reasonable middle like the Kurds, FSA and moderate Sunnis and Shias?

Strategist says

My measurement - When they can no longer influence social, economic and political thinking.

It is not "they". A lot of those thugs are from foreign countries, including many western countries. The executioner was speaking in British accent. This is particularly worrisome.

socal2 says

Really - is that why Assad's father had to literally demolish the entire city of Hama killing tens of thousands of Sunnis in 1982?

Yep. That was 30 years ago. What happened since? Hardly anything until the US started spreading unrest and arms to rebels.

If we can go back 30 years, why not 7...
socal2 says

This is your example from way back in 2007 to make the arbitrary claim that the US is just going around bombing schools for no reason?

The democracy claims are laughable - see Egypt and Pakistan. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood - who did not start executing Copts left and right - took power in an election. They were doing a cock-up job and would have lost the next election anyway. Instead the US fully supported a military coup, I think I posted something about Sisi being claimed "Elected" by the Admin yesterday.

The aid is fully flowing.

@Thunderlips - you got 2 examples now? There's alot more than that.

In Afghanistan, even the UN admits that over 75% of all civilian deaths comes from the Taliban while just 16% came from NATO.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/world/asia/10afghanistan.html?_r=0

Tens of thousands of people are alive (and educated) today thanks to US and NATO bombing the Klingons.

socal2 says

In Afghanistan, even the UN admits that over 75% of all civilian deaths comes from the Taliban while just 16% came from NATO.

This is the Israel-Palestinian nonsense, when Israel argues you can't compare a few Israeli deaths by Palestinians to alot of Palestinian deaths by Israelis. So if we applied your metric to Israel-Palestine, the Palestinians are more responsible because they kill fewer civilians.

Besides, what the hell does the Asspit of Asia have to do with me?

thunderlips11 says

Yep. That was 30 years ago. What happened since? Nothing until the US started
spreading unrest and arms to rebels.

If you haven't already, I recommend you read the Pulitzer Prize winning book "The Looming Tower" that documents the rise of Sunni Salafist ideology and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Much of the radicalization occurred in the last 30 years as millions of Arabs were living under murderous dictatorial rule supported by the US and Russia.

America after 9/11 kicked over the old ruling order in the Middle East - and we are now watching itself burn out as old scores are being settled. I think we can still help shape events so the least worst crazy people take over and protect minority groups. But if we sit back and do nothing, the most brutal and violent groups will gain all power like the Russian armed dictators did before it.

thunderlips11 says

Besides, what the hell does the Asspit of Asia have to do with me?

You could have said that on 9/11.

America pretty much left Afghanistan all by itself for over a decade after we helped them kick out the Commies.

How did that work out?

If you really believe that the US is soley responsible for the rise of Al Qaeda (which is ridiculous) - than doesn't America have some responsiblity to keep that monster in check so they are not blowing up buildings and trains all over North America and Europe?

Taliban, FUCK YEAH! Fighting the evil Soviets, these noble savages! Here comes Rambo to help fight Taliban Style on a horse!

Protecting the poor freedom fighting Taliban against Evil Murdering Russians and their Northern Tribe Cronies! Fuck YEAH!

Abramoff helped produce Rambo III, BTW

thunderlips11 says

Taliban, FUCK YEAH! Fighting the evil Soviets, these noble savages!

You do realize that there are several different Afghan tribes and alliances and they are not all "taliban"- right? Or do you think they are all the same "rag-heads" and can't tell them apart?

One of America's main Afghan allies from the 1980's in the Northern Alliance (Massoud) who was both anti-Commie and anti-Talban was killed by Al Qaeda 2 days before the 9/11 attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud

Strategist says

My measurement - When they can no longer influence social, economic and political thinking.

1. That's not a measurement. The term influence is vague.
2. By that standard, the War on Terror can never be won because there is always the possibility that someone with religious views may influence social, economic, and/or political thinking.
3. Since when is influencing thinking terrorism? It's an evil criteria to have that your political, economic, or social rivals might add to a discussion. Hell, by that standard even talking about anything makes one a terrorist.