patrick.net

Diesel is the safest technology.

Hydrogen is extremely dangerous to store and transport.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/08/hydrogen-explosion-deals-blow-to-fuel-cell-advocates.html

Peter P says

Reality says

There was a time when 90% of the world did not have internet access either. Comes to think of it, that was the golden days when the average intelligence on the internet was a lot higher. LOL.

+1

Me too!!!!!

Yep. And Austrians back in the 90s still swapped Newsletters.

That was my attempt to parody the early days of internet...

Sorry Peter, didn't grasp it. I do really miss the burning torches and gif animated mailboxes. Or waiting for an hour to UUENCODE some naked picture of Samantha Foxx from the newsgroups.

Anyway, for Reality, the Cap'n and others...

Using LED lightbulbs and disconnecting the internet ain't shit. There's only one way to reduce dependence on foreign oil, and it ain't fracking.

thunderlips11 says

All this hydrogen and rare-earth metal-based battery powered car nonsense is a desperate attempt to visualize a future where privately owned vehicles are still viable.

You can tell by the infantile bawling every time this is mentioned. There is a tremendous sense of entitlement among fearful, cowardly people that they might have to walk somewhere, as humans have done for 150,000 years.

Why do some people get so upset about what somebody says? It's like Muslims pitching a fit when you draw Muhammed.

thunderlips11 says

It's unsustainable and one of, if not THE, source of Global Warming. Not to mention the source of constant screwing about in the Middle East and Saudi-financed terror.

Those Madrassahs in France, Germany, Indonesia, Nigeria, etc. aren't funded by Camel Washes.

Oh you're stuck in a loop again, you said cheap easy economical transportation. You didn't say it HAD to be gasoline powered.
What's the issue with trying to provide cheap green energy.

Though I'm quite certain you already have answered my question.

Gas bad, so punish all users of it. Elitist green energy for those that can afford it is awsome, and fuck anyone who can't afford a fucking twenty dollar chicken!

CaptainShuddup says

why is it so important to try to force people into a mode of transporation that they can't afford

No one is forcing anyone.

In fact, unlike Tesla's battery cars, and gasoline tax credits, the Federal credit for FCVs expired and was not renewed this year.

Hydrogen is the one clean technology that already has a large commercial and industrial base for production and is in use for applications besides passenger cars. And it is the only technology that is being adopted by the world's largest private automakers by their own choice.

thunderlips11 says

All this hydrogen and rare-earth metal-based battery powered car nonsense is a desperate attempt to visualize a future where privately owned vehicles are still viable.

YOu sound like the schmucks that convinced McDonald's to scrap their tried and true menu and business formula, to placate the fat shamers. Then after they dumped billions on rebranding them selves and putting on the front that they are Wholefoods kitchen, you folks still wont set foot in a McCafe on a bet. Even if you were paid to do it.

You people who harp your choo choo trains, that the rest of the world that has 500% more manufacturing than we do, and those trains actually take millions people a day because those millions of people have jobs to go to. But let's pretend for a moment that you can manage to McCafe America's mode of transportation and we build these trains to nowhere, to shuttle people dropped out of the job market, to take them to jobs that don't exist.

You'll be the last person riding on that train. The first son of a bitch that reclines his seat, and picks his toe nails, you'll be out of there faster than fresh salads on the McDonald's lunch menu.

I'm voting for Elizabeth Warren, because I want one (1) person to tell everyone what car they have to drive.

Private car ownership will always be viable. It just needs not be viable for everyone.

BTW, self-driving vehicles will make car ownership a moot point for most people.

John Bailo says

No one is forcing anyone.

In fact, unlike Tesla's battery cars, and gasoline tax credits, the Federal credit for FCVs expired and was not renewed this year.

Don't get me wrong John I'm not riling against hydrogen or any alternative energy, and I'm rooting for you and every article you post. You've posted the most viable solutions to date. I'm routing for Hydrogen.

The problem I have with a lot of other Green hypocrites is the insincerity they are about it. I'm starting to understand, it has less to do with actually moving people around the country effectively as much as it is they want to dictate how they move, if they move at all. And they want to dictate that everyone should stay put and live in the loft of the company they work at, and eat at the restaurant down stairs. They should never have a reason to leave their block.

These people are the last assholes anyone should be taking seriously. I'd fucking drill every inch of Alaska and every wetland, for I'd go along with those petty schmucks.

They really live with their heads well planted firmly up their fucking assholes. The fucking nerve, "You should work in your densely populated apartment buildings neighborhood." What a load of fucking horse shit, these people are lala land. You have to go to where the jobs are, I don't get to dictate where the offices of my next job will be.

You'd think if they really felt that way, they would be more practical about it, and suggest... "More companies should be made to allow employees to work from home" especially if there is no real benefit for them being on location, especially if those jobs that can be done anywhere.

People have to move and be mobile, our society is not set up for high speed rail, there just not enough manufacturing or densely populated jobs to support it.

The only way it could work if the government made every company relocate to a centralized location that would serve as a work hub. That every city in America then had high speed rail networks that brought everyone from other locations to that work hub center.

I mean just imagine a high speed train that ran from LA to NYC for a minute.

What do you suppose would happen?

I'll tell them because they are too fucking stupid to figure it out on their own. People who lived in LA would take a 4 hour high speed train to NYC to work and people in NYC would take the train in the opposite direction to work in LA.
What fucking benefit would that even serve?

OR you would just be bringing more people into cities that already has high unemployment. They would end up stuck and can't afford a ticket back.

They didn't think anything further than the idea of a goddamned Choo Choo train.

Say weren't the Natzis big on making people take the train?

HydroCabron says

I'm voting for Elizabeth Warren

Well if you want "Waste" your vote go right on ahead.

Peter P says

BTW, self-driving vehicles will make car ownership a moot point for most people.

You mean like the taxi did?

CaptainShuddup says

Peter P says

BTW, self-driving vehicles will make car ownership a moot point for most people.

You mean like the taxi did?

Taxis are no good because:

1. it takes too long to find one
2. the drivers are unfriendly and aggressive
3. I hate reaching for my wallet when seated

Uber has solved many of these problems. Self-driving "taxis" can only be better.

thunderlips11 says

There's only one way to reduce dependence on foreign oil, and it ain't fracking.

Since you don't use Oil, then you don't have any skin in the game.

FWIW, I'm quite fine with "CHEAP" foreign Oil. I mean I'm sorry if that fucks with your portfolio but I don't really give a good greasy FUCK. Find a new thing to manipulate, you're a smart guy... you think!

I'm a foreign Oil junkie and I'm not ashamed of it.

It's just a dirty word Liberals smeared on it, to make people feel guilty for doing what is just natural.

Peter P says

1. it takes too long to find one

2. the drivers are unfriendly and aggressive

3. I hate reaching for my wallet when seated

You think that there's going to be two autocars for every person on the street?

You think that you wont get your head cracked open a time or two after waiting a half hour for a car, and go to get in one, but the guy behind felt that twenty minutes was long enough to wait?

You don't think Google wants to put these cars out for free do you?

Peter P says

Taxis are no good because:

1. it takes too long to find one

2. the drivers are unfriendly and aggressive

3. I hate reaching for my wallet when seated

Uber has solved many of these problems. Self-driving "taxis" can only be better.

In theory, once you eliminate the Taxi driver, the costs for renting a vehicle for short hops, goes down dramatically.

And in this case, the dispatcher is your own phone, almost like ZipCars but cheaper, as these cabs will be everywhere.

Now, they need to find a way to disinfect the vehicle, if the prior passenger puked on the upholstery.

Rin says

Now, they need to find a way to disinfect the vehicle, if the prior passenger puked on the upholstery.

There could be sensors or surveillance cameras. The vehicle will be taken offline and the cost will be charged to the passenger.

I bet you guys thought the dystopian hightech world in Judge Dread was awsome didn't you? I though it was depressing.

CaptainShuddup says

Oh you're stuck in a loop again, you said cheap easy economical transportation. You didn't say it HAD to be gasoline powered.

What's the issue with trying to provide cheap green energy.

Though I'm quite certain you already have answered my question.

Gas bad, so punish all users of it. Elitist green energy for those that can afford it is awsome, and fuck anyone who can't afford a fucking twenty dollar chicken!

There's no elitism. Public Transportation for all is about as democratic as it gets.

Electric Cars need rare materials and create a great deal of pollution. To say nothing of the ludicrous amounts of extra energy we'd need to create. People will be charging them primarily after the sun goes down. And where are you gonna dump all those lead-acid or Cadmium based batteries?

CaptainShuddup says

YOu sound like the schmucks that convinced McDonald's to scrap their tried and true menu and business formula, to placate the fat shamers. Then after they dumped billions on rebranding them selves and putting on the front that they are Wholefoods kitchen, you folks still wont set foot in a McCafe on a bet. Even if you were paid to do it.

The make-you-fat shit in McDonalds isn't the 1/2 ounce of meat, but the carb-laden bun, special sauce, fake cheese, potatoes, and sugar in the soft drink.

BTW, I DO eat McD's occasionally anyway.

The rest of your post I completely missed the point on. Only thing I agree with is the death penalty for seat recliners, but that's really confined to planes.

CaptainShuddup says

I bet you guys thought the dystopian hightech world in Judge Dread was awsome didn't you? I though it was depressing.

Futuristic literature is necessarily dystopic. This is because a story needs conflicts and drama. I am sure the high-tech future will be just fine, if you play it right.

CaptainShuddup says

Say weren't the Natzis big on making people take the train?

The people who invented the Volkswagen - "People's Car" - and built the Autobahn?

CaptainShuddup says

Since you don't use Oil, then you don't have any skin in the game.

I don't use oil? Okay.

CaptainShuddup says

FWIW, I'm quite fine with "CHEAP" foreign Oil. I mean I'm sorry if that fucks with your portfolio but I don't really give a good greasy FUCK. Find a new thing to manipulate, you're a smart guy... you think!

I'm a foreign Oil junkie and I'm not ashamed of it.

It's just a dirty word Liberals smeared on it, to make people feel guilty for doing what is just natural.

Shit, I love Gazprom. What a bargain. Euroweenies will be doubling down on gas since they won't mine coal, won't build more nukes, and wisely won't get addicted to middle eastern oil.

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/mon in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $5 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

Rin says

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/yr in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $4 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

We have already replaced our second car with Uber/Lyft. The cost of owning a car is closer to $500-$1000/month.

An automated road network can have dramatically improved throughput. Imagine a world without stop signs or traffic lights. Cars can somehow time intersection crossings perfectly.

jazz music says

Hindsight reveals that we the public got conned into starry-eyed complacency by the constant harping about the future as presented by LA Times cartoons, Monsanto and Disney, General Electric ads and others too while those companies quietly raked in 10s of billions.

Speak for yourself.

I live in a domed city and drive a flying car.

jazz music says

Peter P says

the high-tech future will be just fine

Hindsight reveals that we the public got conned into starry-eyed complacency by the constant harping about the future as presented by LA Times cartoons, Monsanto and Disney, General Electric ads and others too while those companies quietly raked in 10s of billions.

You just have to play it right.

Rin says

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/mon in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $5 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

15k a month in miles? I think you mean a year otherwise thats 180k a year times 15 years is 2.7 million miles. That's one hell of a corrolla. Even at 15k a year for 225k total I come up with $8.,50 a day. I really question 7k in maintenance for 225k. I do all my own wrenching and I'm not sure I could keep it down to that. Pay a garage it will be more than 7k.

Where is insurance in your calculations?

Rin says

The cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, assuming 15K/mon in miles, a $16K sticker, and maintenance of $7K over a 15 year span ~29mpg with $3 gas is about $5 per day.

So in effect, if ppl only need short hops, this idea will easily pay for itself.

No way.

The worst car insurance you can buy will still cost $3 per day. Add in a gallon a day of gas, and you're at $6 per day without even considering taxes, maintenance, license fees, or depreciation.

It's extremely difficult to get your overall vehicle spending under $0.30 per mile.

jazz music says

Highly paid professionals, merchant caste, upper class, and wealthy will have a wide selection of pricier car choices to advertise their higher status--when desired--with amenities; human concierges, visual style, comfort, speed, even preferential treatment in traffic by the system itself.

They can even have their own private vehicles, stocked with their favorite drinks and trinkets. There will still be car ownership, but it will be a niche market.

HydroCabron says

It's extremely difficult to get your overall vehicle spending under $0.30 per mile.

My overall vehicle spending is almost never more than $0.20 per mile, most of that gas. Of course I've yet to own a vehicle made in the 21st century, paid $700 for my last 2 vehicles combined ( which have 85k and 93k respectively), haven't had any other mechanic touch my cars in years, and put on average 400-500k on a vehicle before junking it. When I send a car to the junkyard, it's junk.

jazz music says

uto repairs will necessarily be done as depot level operations. Mechanics will likely go to work for a highly capitalized centralized garage operation where routine cleaning, diagnostics and recharging are performed.

The minimum waged Geeksquad more like it.

jazz music says

even preferential treatment in traffic by the system itself. Imagine everybody being made to wait because a rich person is coming;

We have that in South Florida it's called the Express Lanes and you pay by a sun pass. The more elitist morons that get in it, and then clog and contest the rest of the traffic as they bring the rest of the traffic to grinding halt as they enter and exit this corralmentation of stupidity. The slower they can manage to make traffic for everyone else as they dawdle 5mph an hour as they merge left at the end of the express lanes, then the more they charge to use it. They manage to get from Downtown Miami to Broward county line in 15minutes while everyone else takes 45.

sbh says

See? Lizzie and you and "the assholes" (whoever that is) subverted the capitalist system and shamed (there's that evil, elitist "talking" bit again) McD into shitcanning Cap's favorite cholesterol hockeypucks.

My impression is that Lizzie Warden made the decision on her own.

She's the one up there in Washington who decides how you can invest, what you can eat, and so on.

I'm opposed to someone dictating how we live on principle.

She also has investments, you know. That disqualifies her from holding public office.

CaptainShuddup says

We have that in South Florida it's called the Express Lanes and you pay by a sun pass.

How much do they charge?

It's like .25 cents when the cars in the express lane are at the same clip as the creatin traffic. It starts going up from there, I've passed the entrance before where it was already up to $5.00, because the regular traffic was going 35mph to 45mph with frequent stop and go areas. Often by time I am at the half way point, the express lane will be backed up and gridlocked and the regular traffic doing 45mph seems like warp speed in comparison.

Often that's because there was a breakdown, flat tire or accident, that brings the whole thing to a stop.

I just laugh blow my horn and give them the finger as I pass them by.
Elitists really are stupid lot.

Because in most optimal conditions they and the regular lanes are all going 60 to 80mph and there will still be assholes paying that 25 cents to be there. It's only two lanes so I've seen regular traffic going faster because two assholes in the express lanes driving side by side at 55 to 60mph, while they have 40 cars behind tailgating each other.

CaptainShuddup says

It's like .25 cents when the cars in the express lane are at the same clip as the creatin traffic. It starts going up from there, I've passed the entrance before where it was already up to $5.00, because the regular traffic was going 35mph to 45mph with frequent stop and go areas.

Sounds reasonable if you are in a hurry that day. People here pay a premium for "green" vehicles just to use the HOV lanes driving solo.