patrick.net

Here is a chart for those of you keeping score at home...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

And that doesn't even show ethnicity, Russia, religion, WTF

This might be out of date, the bottom row is wrong, the US and Al Qaeda should now have "It's Complicated" face due to the US support of the Al Qaeda Led-Alliance of "moderate rebels" in Syria.

thunderlips11 says

This might be out of date, the bottom row is wrong, the US and Al Qaeda should now have "It's Complicated" face due to the US support of the Al Qaeda Led-Alliance of "moderate rebels" in Syria.

Yes and they need to throw in the Hillary factor as well.

The only cleansing needed is Republican & Democratic voters from Merika.

A true conservative loves dependability.

HEY YOU says

The only cleansing needed is Republican & Democratic voters from Merika.

HEY YOU says

The only cleansing needed is Republican & Democratic voters from Merika.

We just need to shut off the spigot.

thunderlips11 says

True, but there never has been an independent Palestinian state

Yes, but people did live there for quite a while. And now they don't, and the process is continuing. They have a more legitimate claim to the land than folks from Europe. Jews also lived in Palestine, and did not have their own country.

Blurtman says

Yes, but people did live there for quite a while. And now they don't, and the process is continuing. They have a more legitimate claim to the land than folks from Europe. Jews also lived in Palestine, and did not have their own country.

Well, most of them were serfs working for absentee Turkish landlords, who were the real losers when Israel declared itself in 1947.

Possession is 90% of the law. The British created Jordan from 2/3rd of the Palestinian Territory taken from the Ottoman Empire, the Palestinians prior to 1948 refused to negotiate any division and insisted on the whole thing. They've been offered the entire West Bank and Gaza before + Compensation and rejected it every time. It is what it is.

Anything but returning the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt is going to result in a second Holocaust. There's been plenty of sectarian violence between Muslims and even Muslims of same sect, but different ethnicity, to demonstrate there's absolutely no chance, none, that a single Israel-Palestine is ever going to work. Both Hamas and the PLO have stated that if they were to accept a two-state solution, it would only be a cease fire for a few years, maybe a generation, before they would re-ignite the war for all of Palestine.

Polls of the Palestinians themselves reject the two-state solution.

Israels only hope is to get Jordan to take over the West Bank, or go all Croatians in Krajina when the West is distracted with a big conflict of their own doing, like a Russo-NATO or internal ethnic bloodbath.

Like I said, Israel in Israel was a dumb idea, but that's the way the cookie crumbled. It is what it is. Until the Palestinians get realistic and try to practice the art of the possible, nothing can be done. As is said in the old Civilization games after discovering Fission...

thunderlips11 says

Here's the deal, the majority of Palestinians reject the two-state solution, they want only Arab Palestine from Sea to River. The majority of Palestinians want to expel all the Jews, and even if they didn't, Palestinians would become the majority and they are the most Jewish Hating people in the world. The only things Palestinians are split about is whether they will kill all the Jews, or expel all the Jews once they take over all of Israel.

Hamas' official policy is no Israel, only Palestine.

Gary, Tovobot, and the others just don't get this.

bgamall4 says

The Palestinians owned it all in the first place, Einstein. Actually, Einstein knew this.

Native Americans owned all of America. Gary, you are occupying stolen property - theft - pure and simple.
You are evil. Please get the hell out.

thunderlips11 says

How did Russians born in Lithuania in 1988, descended from the 4th Generation of Russians living in Lithuania, lose Lithuanian citizenship?

Easy: by refusing to learn the language and passing the test. It takes special kind of stupid to live somewhere "for 4 generations" (more likely 1-2 in reality) and not learn the local language.

bgamall4 says

750 thousand people were booted. Fook you Thunderass. This is theft, pure and simple.

How many Jews were expelled from MENA countries after 1948?

Straw Man says

Easy: by refusing to learn the language and passing the test. It takes special kind of stupid to live somewhere "for 4 generations" (more likely 1-2 in reality) and not learn the local language.

Right, you can revoke Citizenship generations later, retroactively. Perfectly normal. I'm sure it would be perfectly fine to take away the Citizenship of Miami Cubans if their ancestors they couldn't pass a College Graduate-level English Written and Spoken Test despite previously having citizenship for 3 or 4 generations. Like the old Literacy Tests in the South, the difficulty of the exam is tailored to how badly the authorities want to prevent citizenship and voting.

Strategist says

bgamall4 says

The Palestinians owned it all in the first place, Einstein. Actually, Einstein knew this.

Native Americans owned all of America. Gary, you are occupying stolen property - theft - pure and simple.

You are evil. Please get the hell out.

Hey Gary, we know you are there. Crawl out from under the bed and address the comments like a man.

Oh Jew! Oh American! Oh Russian! Enemies of the Islamic Kaliphate!

Preaching from the Al-Aqsa Mosque (aka Temple Mount with a big fat mosque on it just like they build big fat mosques over Churches and Hindu Temples as a sign they have conquered):

https://www.youtube.com/embed/0oEwT5CjC_Q

"Oh Allah, let us eliminate the Jews" - literal quote.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/jilted-friday-october-13-2023-c-and

The Israeli war has not progressed much since yesterday. The biggest news yesterday was Israel issued its largest evacuation notice yet, affecting around a million Palestinians in north Gaza, which suggests an imminent ground action.

The United Nations immediately demanded that Israel revoke the evacuation notice, arguing a mass relocation “would be calamitous.”

Israel’s opponents are scoffing just where are the Palestinians supposed to go?, since it appears nobody wants them. At least, none of the otherwise outraged Muslim countries in the area have so far offered to shelter any Palestinian refugees.

If you like, contrast that fact with Western Europe’s open door policy for Ukrainian refugees when that war began. So.

indigenous says

Here is a chart for those of you keeping score at home...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

And that doesn't even show ethnicity, Russia, religion, WTF

The US works with Al Qaeda and ISIS. It's just supposed to be a secret, however the Clinton emails expose it.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/10/17/neither-jordan-or-egypt-will-accept-refugees-fleeing-gaza-strip/

Strategist says

Native Americans owned all of America.

If you can take it and hold it, it’s yours. Same as it ever was.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Strategist says

Native Americans owned all of America.

If you can take it and hold it, it’s yours. Same as it ever was.

Why drives me nuts about Israel is all the propaganda around it.

The people who control Israel have no connection to the land at all, historically. They are Europeans and Russians, and they conquered it. They are a racially based society, and non Jewish people in the society are second class status. They are indeed an apartheid government, and they create a lot of pointless problems in the region which has plenty of problems to begin with.

richwicks says

The people who control Israel have no connection to the land at all, historically. They are Europeans and Russians

That's not true. European Jews have significant Middle Eastern ancestry, unlike other Europeans.

Just look at them. It's pretty obvious.

Great thread. So much info about all the intricacies of the region. Such a rainbow of rich cultures!

I do not give a fuck. Stay the fuck out of it.

I agree. The Middle East is not America. We should stay entirely out of that conflict.

Patrick says

richwicks says

The people who control Israel have no connection to the land at all, historically. They are Europeans and Russians

That's not true. European Jews have significant Middle Eastern ancestry, unlike other Europeans.

Just look at them. It's pretty obvious.

Like who? William Shatner? He's Jewish. Look at how fucking white they are, in a desert? They aren't Middle Eastern. they are not the descendants of the Jews of the Bible.

It's a mix, but the Middle Eastern component is there.

I've read about this stuff for years.

Patrick says

It's a mix, but the Middle Eastern component is there.

I've read about this stuff for years.

Why do you assume what you're reading is true?

Why doesn't Jordan want Palestinians?

Search "Black September". Something that Ryan Dawson's "Exhaustive MENA knowledge" omits regularly.

Why doesn't Lebanon want Palestinians?

Search "Damour" or "Lebanese Civil War +Causes +Church of the Deliverence"

Egypt, @Patrick mentioned above. Every time Egypt opens the border, even in a limited way to allow Gazans to visit markets, a few weeks later tourists get killed.

@richwicks I challenge you to find me any evidence which shows that Ashkenazi Jews do not have a large Middle Eastern genetic origin, since you're the one asserting that.

Even just looking at paternal haplogroups, you see that the most common Ashkenazi Jewish Y-chromosome haplotype is type J, as are most Arabs, while the typical European is R1b (like me, with paternal ancestry from Ireland). Russians are usually R1a.

Patrick says

I challenge you to find me any evidence which shows that Ashkenazi Jews do not have a large Middle Eastern genetic origin, since you're the one asserting that.

What's "large"?

They are OBVIOUSLY European. It frustrates me that people will believe lies before they believe their eyes now.

If you're not going to debate in good faith, it's pointless to debate.

Is there no stereotype of Jewish appearance?

Patrick says

If you're not going to debate in good faith, it's pointless to debate.

Is there no stereotype of Jewish appearance?

I'm not debating. Look at how goddamned pale their skin is. They're as white as you and me. They marry as an ingroup, so naturally there's going to be repetition of features.

MisdemeanorRebel says

Right, you can revoke Citizenship generations later, retroactively.

Nothing to revoke - the people we're talking about never had Lithuanian citizenship in the first place. All they had is Soviet citizenship. Which they still can claim any moment they want (and probably did in secret).

Lithuania was annexed by the USSR in 1940 and flooded with transplants from the East while tens of thousands of natives were imprisoned in or deported to Siberia. When Lithuanian state was restored in 1990 they naturally decided to not automatically grant citizenship to the transplants but left the door open to these who would demonstrate geniune interest in integration - learning the fucking language and taking the fucking citizenship exam.

PS. If I was a King of Lithuania I'd kick them all the fuck out to their native Northern Hamas and offered to apply for entry visa and residency permit on case-by-case basis, but these Lithuanians are softies.

Patrick says

richwicks says

The people who control Israel have no connection to the land at all, historically. They are Europeans and Russians

That's not true. European Jews have significant Middle Eastern ancestry, unlike other Europeans.

Just look at them. It's pretty obvious.

Also note that quite a few Palestinians look very European, especially when young.

HeadSet says

Also note that quite a few Palestinians look very European, especially when young.

Perhaps.

At this point, I'm hoping Israel blows up the Al-Aqsa Mosque and rebuilds their stupid temple. This is supposed to bring their Messiah back and end the world. When it doesn't happen, maybe these nutcases will start acting like sane adults.

I'm just tired of this conflict. It will never end. Zionists are a bunch of Jewish bigots, and the Palestinians hate them because they've been fucked over by them for 70 years. There's no reconciliation possible.

richwicks says

At this point, I'm hoping Israel blows up the Al-Aqsa Mosque

Screw that: 50mt ground bursts at Mecca and Medina are what is needed.

On the one hand, that could backfire like the Romans' destroying the Temple in Jerusalem. Jews go there anyway to pray at the remaining wall.

On the other hand, Islam has no "failure mode" so they might not cope as well with the loss of their holiest sites.

Patrick says

On the one hand, that could backfire like the Romans' destroying the Temple in Jerusalem. Jews go there anyway to pray at the remaining wall.

The wall, is likely an ancient Roman Fortress. That is a whole discussion. "Holy places" become holy places due to legend, not from history.

Patrick says

On the other hand, Islam has no "failure mode" so they might not cope as well with the loss of their holiest sites.

I'm just tired of this shit. There's a group of apocalyptic Jews that believe if they destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque and build a temple there, their messiah will show up. There's a group of Christian lunatics that believe basically the same, but Jesus comes back.

Well, fuck it, do it. Watch NOTHING happen, and then we can have the entertainment of watching all these religious frauds explain why nothing happened.

These are just nutcases in my opinion. I'm tired of them.

I've been following the Palestine / Israeli conflict for 30 years, I'm sick of it. There's been NO PROGRESS - it's gotten worse. Israel claimed they wanted a 2 state solution, that's a lie. They can just make a fucking 2 state solution by just declaring their borders, they'll never do this. They claimed "oh if the Palestinians just laid down their arms, there would be peace" - well the West Bank did - what did that get them? Expansion of settlements.

There's no negotiating with Israel. The only think they respect is violence. They constantly lie, NONE of their statements are true. I'm fucking tired of it.

Blow up the Mosque - make some stupid fucking temple, realize you were wrong, and you just blew up an ancient landmark over your bullshit dumb racist religion.

Patrick says

On the other hand, Islam has no "failure mode" so they might not cope as well with the loss of their holiest sites.

If you see the Saudi Video I posted, many Islamic scholars dispute that "Al Aqsa" is the furthest Mosque, since the battle of Yarmouk didn't happen yet and the Prophet was dead before it was built. They say it was in a town called J--- something, north of Mecca, the town as two mosques, one is "Al-Aqsa", the further, the other is "Al-something", the closer.

The argument is fairly known among the educated in the Middle East.

HeadSet says

Also note that quite a few Palestinians look very European, especially when young.

As many are descended from the Bosniaks the Ottomans settled there in the late 19th, like Shirley Temper, Ahed Tamimi - blonde hair, blue eyes, European face and nose. The Grand Mufti Husseyni is very European looking for the same reason, he was a Bosniak.

AmericanKulak says

HeadSet says

Also note that quite a few Palestinians look very European, especially when young.

As many are descended from the Bosniaks the Ottomans settled there in the late 19th, like Shirley Temper, Ahed Tamimi - blonde hair, blue eyes, European face and nose. The Grand Mufti Husseyni is very European looking for the same reason, he was a Bosniak.

yep, the Ottomans made it far up north into the Balkans

look at some "Muslim" Europeans

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakir_Izetbegovi%C4%87#Controversies

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans#Religion

who would want to live in a country within the old Yugoslavia that is split 50% Islam and 50% Christian that is like living in Lebanon back in early 1980s

....