patrick.net

jazz music says

Better entertainment than actually being debates. More like segues to "my handler's chosen talking points are ..... bla bla bla ... and they are really terrific, trust me, they're gonna make your head spin "

Could be, but the Donald is so thin-skinned, it surely won't be that difficult to set him off.

neplusultra57 says

thunderlips11 says

Chemical Weapons were shown to have been stolen by Freedom Fighters

Says you. No link? Show me something believable. Prove the negative.

THOSE FUCKING MULTI-CULTISTS ARE AT IT AND LYING AGAIN!!:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/syria-assad-obama-united-nations-227385

neplusultra57 says

Russia's and SA's treatment of their population "don't enter into it" as John Cleese would say. Unless you want an intervention. Didn't think so. Red herring dodge on your part.

Wow, not a dodge at all. I gave a strong comparison between the Human Rights record of both nations. One is inarguably far worse than the other, unless you think Blue Haired Nose Ring people should be able to disrupt church proceedings at will without fear of any punishment, but it's A-Okay to not allow women to leave their homes without being covered head to toe and escorted by male relatives and be unable to drive themselves.

Frankly the only country worse than the Gulf States on Human Rights is probably North Korea, maybe Burma/Myanmar. In intervention after intervention, we are bombarded with political and media hoaxes about why we need to intervene for human rights, yet it's okay to take money from Gulf Tyrants? Give me a break.

When you ignore women's total lack of rights, execution/imprisonment/forced sex change of gays and "Witches", importing millions of foreign workers, seizing their passports, making them live in tents in the 100 degree desert, and then paying them a fraction of what was promised as practical slavery or fraudulent indentured servitude at best, in the Gulf Tyrant States, and the fact they give millions to certain candidates to influence elections, that's pretty goddamn indefensible.

neplusultra57 says

Says you. No link? Show me something believable. Prove the negative.

You can't prove a negative. The first and only other chemical attack happened before the Gouta one that was offered as an excuse to intervene against Assad, was a smaller scale one months earlier, conducted against Assad forces - 16 Syrian Army Soliders and many civilians died - by the Al Qaeda dominated opposition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Assal_chemical_attack

Saudi Arabia has these kinds of Chemical Weapons and has used them before in Yemen when it was fighting the Egyptians there in the 60s. It's likely Saudi Arabia gave the chemical weapons to the opposition, to blame it on Assad. No dictator who knows he's on the US-Saudi removal list is going to dream of using chemcial weapons. Religious extremists desperate to correct heresy and destroy "Westtoxification" are far more likely to use Chemical Weapons.

The only thing the UN investigations ever showed was that Chemical weapons were used. It could not identify where the chemicals were manufactured.

The burden is on the US and Saudi Arabia to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the Chemical Attacks came from the Syrian Army.

neplusultra57 says

That's all you got? An alt-right red alert? Do you pine for Scalia? Really?

You think Ginsberg isn't anti-Gun Rights? She's already expressed her legal opinions on the matter. I notice you missed my nuance about how she IS good on certain things, on Miranda, Bush v. Gore, etc. Can't stand her bizarre stance on 2A.

neplusultra57 says

About which Drumpf is a total moron totally out of his depth. Oh, what could go wrong!

Right, but fortunately, if he loses, we'll have neoclassical schmucks as advisors. You know, the ones have given us tepid growth despite a printing press running at full steam and nearly the lowest taxes since WW2, massive rise in inequality, deindustrialization, declining wages for the bottom 1/3 of American workers, sky high and icnreasing debt, big trade deficits, and were totally gobsmacked by the Greatest Financial Crisis since the Great Depression which they had no clue was coming. Not even as reliable as Alchemy. Might as well be measuring skulls to determine criminal behavior or intelligence.

thunderlips11 says

You know, the ones have given us tepid growth despite a printing press running at full steam and nearly the lowest taxes since WW2, massive rise in inequality, deindustrialization, declining wages for the bottom 1/3 of American workers, sky high and icnreasing debt, big trade deficits, and were totally gobsmacked by the Greatest Financial Crisis since the Great Depression which they had no clue was coming. Not even as reliable as Alchemy. Might as well be measuring skulls to determine criminal behavior or intelligence.

Trump is too flawed to be the answer. We wait 4 more years.
Bernie was close. So was Trump.

thunderlips11 says

You can't prove a negative.

No kidding.

thunderlips11 says

The burden is on the US and Saudi Arabia to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the Chemical Attacks came from the Syrian Army.

Nah, but nice try anyway. In the earlier investigation "the inspectors were able to make an assessment of the likely trajectory of the rockets and this again seems to corroborate US claims that they came from areas controlled by government forces." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24130181

In a summary of the latest investigation: "It is now impossible to deny that the Syrian regime has repeatedly used industrial chlorine as a weapon against its own people," US National Security Council spokesman Ned Price said in a statement Wednesday. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/25/politics/un-report-chemical-weapons-syria/index.html

thunderlips11 says

neplusultra57 says

About which Drumpf is a total moron totally out of his depth. Oh, what could go wrong!

Right, but fortunately, if he loses, we'll have neoclassical schmucks as advisors. You know, the ones have given us tepid growth despite a printing press running at full steam and nearly the lowest taxes since WW2, massive rise in inequality, deindustrialization, declining wages for the bottom 1/3 of American workers, sky high and icnreasing debt, big trade deficits, and were totally gobsmacked by the Greatest Financial Crisis since the Great Depression which they had no clue was coming. Not even as reliable as Alchemy. Might as well be measuring skulls to determine criminal behavior or intelligence.

Growth in every expansion is less than in every preceding expansion because our economy is maturing. Drumpf's Alchemy is more supply side voodoo: more debt, lower taxes on the wealthy, greater deficits, lower minimum wage, more inequality. He may have more moral courage viz. trade, I'll give you that. I would love to see us hold china's feet to the fire there. I wish the Dems had more of a plan to combat wealth inequality than progressive taxation, but they don't: Bernie got pushed aside.

thunderlips11 says

You think Ginsberg isn't anti-Gun Rights? She's already expressed her legal opinions on the matter. I notice you missed my nuance about how she IS good on certain things, on Miranda, Bush v. Gore, etc. Can't stand her bizarre stance on 2A.

Of all the important things SCOTUS will have to decide on, the 2A is the last that matters. We will never have in your or my life time a violent populace revolt in America. In the meantime the very consolidation of power in government will continue if Trump gets his noms. The ability of capital to buy politicians and the ability of politicians to choose their voters (rather than the other way 'round) is so much more important. It's not even close. If you're an anti-establishment, anti-elitist, his noms should make you vomit.

neplusultra57 says

Nah, but nice try anyway. In the earlier investigation "the inspectors were able to make an assessment of the likely trajectory of the rockets and this again seems to corroborate US claims that they came from areas controlled by government forces." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24130181

In a summary of the latest investigation: "It is now impossible to deny that the Syrian regime has repeatedly used industrial chlorine as a weapon against its own people," US National Security Council spokesman Ned Price said in a statement Wednesday. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/25/politics/un-report-chemical-weapons-syria/index.html

Ah yes, the US government, an unbiased investigator, has run a thorough investigation. They haven't been trying to overthrow the Secular Assad regime - whose only viable replacement is either AQ affiliates or ISIS - for nearly a decade now. Look at how well things went in Libya and Iraq.

Also, Saddam Hussein can launch chemical weapons in less than 45 minutes. And multiple intelligence agencies report he was trying to obtain Nigerian yellowcake. Not just us, the Italians, French, and Germans have all acquired info from the same sources we have! Only a conspiracy theorist can deny the Yellowcake memo and the interviews with regime defectors, multiple agencies! He could be on the verge of a nuclear weapon. We must intervene now. We just gave the press and Congress the summary of one report, and heldback the other ones that said that was all bullshit.

neplusultra57 says

Growth in every expansion is less than in every preceding expansion because our economy is maturing. Drumpf's Alchemy is more supply side voodoo: more debt, lower taxes on the wealthy, greater deficits, lower minimum wage, more inequality. He may have more moral courage viz. trade, I'll give you that. I would love to see us hold china's feet to the fire there. I wish the Dems had more of a plan to combat wealth inequality than progressive taxation, but they don't: Bernie got pushed aside.

Did the economists do hundreds of repeated control group experiments on US Sized Economies to prove this is the case? Economics is no more scientific than psychology, and probably less so. I'm a huge skeptic on an alleged science that can't make accurate predictions.

I appreciate the rest of the sentiments, but let's not forget Clinton was a big tax cutter, the father of privatized prisons, and killed off Glass Steagal (and no, it's complete ex rectum argument to say it was obsolete and "had" to go, unless there is an alternate reality machine that saw a post Glass-Steagal America much worse off). He also pushed for NAFTA (as did his wife) and MFN for China. The Republicans didn't exactly override his veto.

I'm old enough to remember Perot being called nuts, that all economists predicted we'd have countless high tech jobs of the future, and we'd be selling US goods made in the USA by millions of American employees, to China and Mexico, many of them the high tech things like computers and monitors (ha!). "Why, all the economists say it will be nothing but a boon! Do you hate economics, it's a Science!"

neplusultra57 says

Of all the important things SCOTUS will have to decide on, the 2A is the last that matters. We will never have in your or my life time a violent populace revolt in America. In the meantime the very consolidation of power in government will continue if Trump gets his noms. The ability of capital to buy politicians and the ability of politicians to choose their voters (rather than the other way 'round) is so much more important. It's not even close. If you're an anti-establishment, anti-elitist, his noms should make you vomit.

Maybe. These Oligarchs aren't donating big to the Clinton Foundation and to her Campaign to get their taxes raises, corporate inversions stopped, loopholes closed, etc. They'll certainly want judges who see Life+150 copyrights as a Human Right.

If Trump wins, he'll be the boss of his party, which will almost certainly (bar a major miracle) control Congress. He can bully and whip to get shit done. Whereas Hillary will be endlessly opposed on everything - except TPP, TISA, etc. which will pass without much fuss.

Press Conference in March 2017, after she signs TPP:
"This is Jack Crack from AP. Didn't Hillary announce she opposes TPP? Did she flip flop?
"No, Jack. You didn't listen. She promised to review it, and said she didn't like it as it stood. They made some (token) changes, by adding some (unenforceable, unquantifiable, and unqualified standards on labor and enviro stuff. ie "All Signatories should respect the environment." "Labor rights are nice and good. Signatories pledge to stand by these two unnamed, unqualified, unquantified vague standards") language to it. She did exactly as she promised, Jack"

thunderlips11 says

Ah yes, the US government, an unbiased investigator, has run a thorough investigation. They haven't been trying to overthrow the Secular Assad regime - whose only viable replacement is either AQ affiliates or ISIS - for nearly a decade now. Look at how well things went in Libya and Iraq.

Also, Saddam Hussein can launch chemical weapons in less than 45 minutes. And multiple intelligence agencies report he was trying to obtain Nigerian yellowcake. Not just us, the Italians, French, and Germans have all acquired info from the same sources we have! Only a conspiracy theorist can deny the Yellowcake memo and the interviews with regime defectors, multiple agencies! He could be on the verge of a nuclear weapon. We must intervene now. We just gave the press and Congress the summary of one report, and heldback the other ones that said that was all bullshit.

Funny though how things can change that rapidly. Back then it was toothless (admittedly he sort of was) Hans Blix being the center of ridicule among Americans and being used by the neocons to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of the UN, and actually many Democrats initially opposed Boooshs wamongering. Fast forward, the neocons found a new home after learning that Obummer and Shillary are as eager to get their hands dirty for their puppet masters as anybody else, plus with some of the Republican fractions actually rising up and opposing constant interventionism and eternal warfare, and you have an unholy alliance by the Democratic And Republican "mainstream" which keeps banging the drums of war, labeling everybody outside of that spectrum as ray's cyst or "unfit". Putin baaaad, Assad baaaad, Saudi Arabia gooood! Makes perfect sense ;)

mell says

you have an unholy alliance by the Democratic And Republican "mainstream" which keeps banging the drums of war, labeling everybody outside of that spectrum as ray's cyst or "unfit".

Yes. The destabilization of Syria actually began in 2006 under Bush by a regular State Dept Official's recommendation. The guy wasn't a political appointee, he served both republican and democrat admins as a civil servant. Obama continued this (though I believe with more skepticism), pushed by Hillary's State Dept. Kerry was more chillaxed.

Here is the latest UN Report:

An international team blamed the government of Bashar al Assad for using chlorine gas in two attacks.

Islamic State used mustard gas during another attack, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons-United Nations Joint Investigative Mechanism (JIM) found.

Three other attacks appeared to have been carried out by the government but it could not be certain, the team said in its report.

So let's say that Assad DID use chemicals. We know the first report of chemical attacks targeted Syrian Army Forces, killing more than a dozen, months before Ghouta. Either IS or AQ launched that attack. So, to retaliate against IS or AQ in kind is a bad thing?

People don't understand: If either of these guys take over Western Syria, where most of the population is, they're going to butcher so many Christians, Druze, Shi'a "Heretics", and many other minorities it will shock the world.

I'm getting nervous. When are the odds on Hillary winning going to be back up to 9:1.

thunderlips11 says

Ah yes, the US government, an unbiased investigator

Right, the Illuminati defense. The wingnut's trump card, worn and tattered. Yawn.

thunderlips11 says

Did the economists do hundreds of repeated control group experiments on US Sized Economies to prove this is the case? Economics is no more scientific than psychology, and probably less so. I'm a huge skeptic on an alleged science that can't make accurate predictions.

Clearly you have an out-of-sample back-tested repeatable socio-economic alt-right syllogism that will make amerika great again. Stick with the Illuminati angle.

thunderlips11 says

He can...get shit done.

Make the trains run on time? Why do you think that? Every one of you lot say he's "an unknown" (as if that means something worthwhile [some further version of What the hell do you have to lose]) and then you go on to claim to "know" what will happen with him when a determinant outcome suddenly becomes useful to you. Most of the GOP office-holders are members of your reviled elite who pray at the altar of free-trade and open borders. Oops, those are the two things you are willing to wager the Supreme Court on. Fail! The Repubs who unabashedly cleave to Trump, who might see some nihilistic vision in helping him, namely, the Tea Party, are best known for theocracy, obstruction and nothingness. And then there are the Dems. Complexity is such a bitch. Now, you may start each morning pondering What Would Putin Do?, pondering the "boss" condition the alt-right posits as a priori necessary, backed up by the homogenizing of culture, but in America we have government divided three ways and the most divided is the Legislative party Trump represents. If getting shit done means passing into law an out-of-sample back-tested repeatable socio-economic alt-right syllogism that will make amerika great again, I think you're wasting your intelligence and deep grasp of world history. Trump will neither serve nor function in complex systems. He can't assume the "boss" condition that underpins your predictions. He barely managed to get on the Minnesota ballot. News flash: He's not Putin. He's a moron.

One out of how many that show him Loooooooosing.

The latest two show she's knockin' his dick in the dirt. Hypermasculine sobs! THEY'RE RIGGED!! ALL THE POLLS EXCEPT USC DORNSLIFE/LA Times ARE RIGGED!!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/04/politics/hillary-clinton-leads-donald-trump-national-polls/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion

Cheer up, he'll make a comeback. All he needs is just one more black person being shot and he'll get 95% of the AA vote. Believe me, folks!

Ranina ranina says

FIFY...

landtof says

epussy ultra 57


marcus

are you two black, by any chance?

i think epussy ultra is... jazz music, the jobless shakespeare.

lots of substance abuse mixed with patrick.net "arguments"

New North Carolina Poll:
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/770684084502822912
Trump 45% (+2)
Clinton 43%
Johnson 8%
Stein 2%

LOL. North Carolina has gone Blue once since 1976, and you're crowing that the orangedouchebag is within the margin of error. That's rich!

neplusultra57 says

THEY'RE RIGGED!! ALL THE POLLS EXCEPT USC DORNSLIFE/LA Times ARE RIGGED!!

That is apparently what ZZYZZX thinks.

His brain is rigged.

How can you not understand the obvious. The obnoxious antics that endeared Trump to the republican base for primary season, are the same reason that his unfavorables with the moderate middle are EVEN worse than Hillary's.

ZZYZZX, I get it how you feel about Trump. But how can you not have the perception to understand that to most intelligent moderates, he acts like an idiotic child and he's simply too risky to be the guy with his hand on the button ?

You might argue that he's not who he seems to be, "I've got lots of good words,"..."I can be super presidential if I want to."

But you still should be able to see who he seems to be.

landtof says

i think epussy ultra is... jazz music, the jobless shakespeare.

Assuming that epussy ultra is me ?

If so, I'll take that as a compliment, because jazz music is a very intelligent and savvy observer.

neplusultra57 says

Right, the Illuminati defense. The wingnut's trump card, worn and tattered. Yawn.

Great, happy to know being skeptical of politicians who are elected on the backs on hundreds of millions raised by special interests is the same as believing in the Illuminati.

neplusultra57 says

Make the trains run on time? Why do you think that? Every one of you lot say he's "an unknown" (as if that means something worthwhile [some further version of What the hell do you have to lose])

I'm pretty what Hillary is going to definitely do, based on her track record as an elected official and as SOS, and I definitely don't want it. I like what a lot of Trump is saying, though he has no track record. I'll take a risk on going to the Trump Towers for a Steak,instead of paying for a meal at Barf's Diner, and knowing I'm going to get a barf burger.

marcus says

neplusultra57 says

THEY'RE RIGGED!! ALL THE POLLS EXCEPT USC DORNSLIFE/LA Times ARE RIGGED!!

That is apparently what ZZYZZX thinks.

His brain is rigged.

How can you not understand the obvious. The obnoxious antics that endeared Trump to the republican base for primary season, are the same reason that his unfavorables with the moderate middle are EVEN worse than Hillary's.

Oh, the Z-man is just bustin' our chops, when he can. At this point bustin' chops on Patnet is more important than who wins the damn election. Trump is such a confused hump that no one really believes he has the chops to run this country (hell, he has hired a group of morons who JUST BARELY got him on the Minnesota ballot!) but Clinton's unfavorables are so high that we deserve to get as good as we give. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to president for the next four years.

thunderlips11 says

I'll take a risk on going to the Trump Towers for a Steak,

And he'll take your money. But if you do any work for him you'll get stiffed and end up in court. That's the only track record Trump has.

thunderlips11 says

hundreds of millions raised by special interests

So you plan to vote for the special interest. How much did the orangedouchebag give to Clinton over the years? @MakeCroniesGreatAgain

neplusultra57 says

So you plan to vote for the special interest.

When people try to convince me to vote Hillary:

"Dost thou not know Hillary is the fairest, and purest maiden of the land?"

I'm not voting for a crazy old lady who thinks Vladimir Putin is behind everything from Alex Jones, Brexit, to Pepe the Frog Memes and Monica Lewinskiy.

Ironman says

A list of everything Donald Trump runs that has his name on it

Among other things, they required Trump to list all entities for which he serves as an executive. Of the 515 listed in the disclosure, 268 of them—52%—contain his last name and don’t clearly reference someone else.

You are probably the only person on the planet that is actually dumb enough to believe trump is "running" 515 corporations. Get you tongue out of the donalds ass.

At the debates:

"Hillary, I know you can be brought, because I brought you."

Pow. Game Over.

thunderlips11 says

When people try to convince me to vote Hillary:

Wouldn't dream of trying to convince you of voting for the Scarlett Whore. But you are on to begging your eighteenth question about anything dispositive re: the orangedouchebag. So far you've said he ain't nuthin' and it's plenty gudenov for you. Glorious in fact.

Just ask yourself: WWPD?

neplusultra57 says

But you are on to begging your eighteenth question about anything dispositive re: the orangedouchebag.

I wish you would strawman less about the Illuminati and the Alt Right.

Again, I'll buy a random bus ticket to anywhere rather than bus ticket to Hell.

The desperation is really setting in

These Hillary voters don't even know why they are supporting her. Trump is just so scary. Propaganda works

thunderlips11 says

I wish you would strawman less about the Illuminati and the Alt Right.

I wish you'd stop avoiding all the reasons why you "can't stand" Trump. Your random ticket takes you on a 40 year right-wing destruction of labor, civil rights, voting rights, marriage rights, education, pollution law, not to mention the abolition of teaching evolution in schools, the fairness doctrine, and talking about climate change. Details, details, these minor 'culture wars" are just so much fluff. There needs to be some punishin' a goin' hyar!

Sbh, why did you scrap the old account for this new alias?

I see Clinton as the best chance of avoiding or at least mitigating a corporatist victory

-------------

Does not compute

You guys are just projecting your emotions wrt democrats vs republicans. If Clinton were running as a republican, and Trump as a democrat, i sm certain that you'd be voting for Trump just to save us from the evil Clinton

Republican Ten Commandments:

jazz music says

1. Repeal Obamacare: If you can't afford insurance, just die. (alternatives have been "alluded to" (trotted out rhetorically) but no alternative has ever been detailed)

2. You can't marry whom you love: marry whom we tell you to marry.

3. If your fetus dies inside you, or has a chromosomal abnormality incompatible with life, we want you to wait a few months to give birth when you're good and sick. Insurance companies shouldn't have to fund birth control, but every man should have Viagra (we don't care if he's married, but unmarried women who have sex are sluts)

4. We won't fund repair for roads and bridges.

5. We won't fund any research. (or even allow tax credits for it)

6. We don't like feeding the poor (even though we would love the image of being Christian)

7. There should be guns everywhere at all times so that if a nutcase starts shooting, everyone can start shooting.

8. We won't fund the VA adequately, but we will complain loudly when the VA fails to deliver good results.

9. We don't want to pay soldiers adequately or make sure they can get jobs when they come back, but we will jump on the Go To War bandwagon at the drop of a hat.

10. We will do everything we can to support the ultra rich because they are the ones giving us money to get re elected. (To be fair, Democrats do this, too, but it's not carved into their mission statement)

And Trump is not your father okay? He doesn't care

----------------

You have me confused for someone else. I'm not a Trump supporter.

errc says

These Hillary voters don't even know why they are supporting her.

I know why I'm supporting her. I don't even see her all that negatively, although I don't like listening to he speeches all that much. I think she will be a decent President if the asshole republicans don't spend all of their energy fighting her.

If the choice were between her and say Kasich, I would seriously consider Kasich, only because I think our system is so broken that it might take a republican to get things done. We wouldn't have to listen to the cry baby dysfunctional scum bag obstructionists 24/7.

Speaking of which, I'm not looking forward to that aspect of Hillary's presidency. It's not going to be fun.

Repealing Obamacare should be at the top of any free thinking, sensible Americans list. It is Republican legislation, written by corporate lobbyists and The Heritage Foundation, named after Obama in order to gain unquestioning support from the kind of Simpletons that go "dem good rep bad" without giving it any further thought.

Fortunately, obamacare is collapsing under the weight of its own shittiness as we speak. So we the people may just slip one past the plutocracy by default, without having to defeat Clinton to make it happen.

Pence is terrible.

jazz music says

Are you ready to defund Planned Parenthood? Keep Citizen's United? Expand campaign financing freedoms? Repeal Dodd-Frank? Do you deny man's impact on climate change? Ready to privatize and reduce Social Security? Like the flat rate tax idea? Back Israel against Iran? Expand NAFTA type deals? Against condoms? Against gay marriage? Against stem cell research?

And that would be just the administration. The Court would be even worse.

marcus says

Assuming that epussy ultra is me ?

If so, I'll take that as a compliment, because jazz music is a very intelligent and savvy observer.

jesus h christ on a popsicle stick. how many accounts do you have here?