patrick.net

Logan Mohtashami says

You should complain about America, if the extreme left was cheering for America with the extreme right then I know something is right

That is why we have extremes

Never, ever happy, the world is awful always, no credit and 100% blame

Get over it ... we are the best in the world and nobody does it better than us

Team Logan with 4

Where are your Bears to join TDS????

Logan-I am 100% optimist. Once again you are trying to build a strawman instead of actually discussing the topic at hand..

Logan Mohtashami says

154 million working Americans and you're trying to push you're Anti American Agenda due to people collecting disability now

How is pointing out issues with the US economy and desiring to get them fixed Anti American?

You sound like the idiots that told me speaking out against the Iraq War was Anti American.

tatupu70 says

Logan-I am 100% optimist

Yes because 1929 and Serfs comments means you're optimist

You're not versed in economics nor the data nor how to explain, so you're Anti American thesis is a rookie calling card

1929 and Serfs ... bears nothing to America in 2016

Logan Mohtashami says

You're taking the 70's misery Index high, inflation and right before our prime age labor peak boom and you're trying to show that as your thesis

So you want high unemployment but stronger wages, Black Plague thesis

wtf are you talking about? I want LOW unemployment. And high wages. I want the US to have the best economy in the world.

That's why I want to get this shit fixed.

tatupu70 says

You sound like the idiots that told me speaking out against the Iraq War was Anti American.

We are talking economics not the war in Iraq

Stick to theme

1929 and Serfs

Logan Mohtashami says

Yes because 1929 and Serfs comments means you're optimist

You're not versed in economics nor the data nor how to explain, so you're Anti American thesis is a rookie calling card

1929 and Serfs ... bears nothing to America in 2016

Logan--I've forgotten more about economics than you have ever learned. There's a big difference between posting a graph and understanding what it means. You have mastered the former, but have a long way to go on the latter.

tatupu70 says

I want the US to have the best economy in the world.

It already does and for a mature economy with scale as well

The way you're talking about America is describing European Economies and South American economies

tatupu70 says

There's a big difference between posting a graph and understanding what it means

Says the lady who tried to post a 2012 Median Income chart.

Logan Mohtashami says

We are talking economics not the war in Iraq

Stick to theme

1929 and Serfs

You're hilarious. You keep trying to bring it back to your strawman. Give it up buddy. You're done.

Just post a picture of yourself smoking a cigar and go outside with your wife. Enjoy.

If Americans were as broke and weak as you claim them to be

No way on earth in a light demographic patch cycle retail sales, car sales and home sales would be at or near cycle highs

Not even close

Logan Mohtashami says

The way you're talking about America is describing European Economies and South American economies

I'm posting facts. It is what it is. If you don't like it, vote people in to office that will change the laws.

tatupu70 says

I'm posting facts. It is what it is. If you don't like it, vote people in to office that will change the laws.

Logan Mohtashami says

If Americans were as broke and weak as you claim them to be

No way on earth in a light demographic patch cycle retail sales, car sales and home sales would be at or near cycle highs

Not even close

#1--who claims cycle highs? That is meaningless. You could look at almost any data in 1932 and it would be at cycle highs. Does that mean the Great Depression was over?

tatupu70 says

How is pointing out issues with the US economy and desiring to get them fixed Anti American?

It is when "leftists" do it.

When rightist/Christianists do the same thing, plus complain about gays, U.S. immigration policy, bathroom fears, steel mills closing, narrower airline seats, and traffic lights, blus being unable to say "nigger", and how America ain't white enough, it's patriotic.

tatupu70 says

That is meaningless

See--that fact that you would post this makes me think you can't read it at all. Industrial production has stopped growing.

Retail sales cannot get back to the trendline from the last 70 years. Looks like a classic structural defect.

The slop of real income is clearly getting smaller. And it's misleading anyway because it doesn't account for the inequality.

If you understood what these charts are saying, you wouldn't have posted them. They don't support your thesis.

Logan Mohtashami says

They don't support your thesis.

You're heart is in the right place, your logic isn't.

Then again I am not the person who brought up 1929, Serfs or structural economic problems in the best domestic economy by far in the history of the world in 2016 for a mature country with a massive population.

I am not going to change your mind

Extreme Left & Extreme Right are part of society, Demagogues are very common and since 1790... rooted deep in our history

If we don't have them , then that is something truly to be mindful off

Logan Mohtashami says

Then again I am not the person who brought up 1929

I'm sorry you can't read a simple chart. Look at the inequality charts and tell me you don't see a similarity between now and 1929.

tatupu70 says

I'm sorry you can't read a simple chart. Look at the inequality charts and tell me you don't see a similarity between now and 1929.

Like I said I am not the drama queen trying to create a false narrative thesis to America 2016 to America 1929

However, if you really believe in this thesis

You should join your Gold Bug friends, buy ammo, food and supplies and wait for the 2nd Great Depression because the Serfs as Marx wanted will revolt and we will have a bloody Russian Sunday

Logan Mohtashami says

Like I said I am not the drama queen trying to create a false narrative thesis to America 2016 to America 1929

No--you're the guy that calls me Anti American because I think the US economy has some flaws.

I'll ask again--do you see the similarity in income and wealth inequality between 2016 and 1929?

tatupu70 says

US economy has some flaws

Having flaws

Comparing American 2016 to 1929 and saying the word serfs = Drama Queen... which is very normal for the extreme left, you're basically following the standard core routine

Probably a Zero Hedge reader soon

tatupu70 says

wealth inequality between 2016 and 1929?

Complete 2 different times for wealth and Inequity due to massive shift in demographic, it's no where close to the same, not even in the same universe

Listened to the Bears and got my ass handed to me in 2009 through 2012. Fuck them. Got back on saddle and having a field day. Gold bugs and bears have one thing in common. Prosperity scares them. It always is a BUBBLE for them.

HadEnough says

Listened to the Bears and got my ass handed to me in 2009 through 2012. Fuck them. Got back on saddle and having a field day. Gold bugs and bears have one thing in common. Prosperity scares them. It always is a BUBBLE for them.

Ahh just by that sentence structure I know who this is ...

Logan Mohtashami says

Complete 2 different times for wealth and Inequity due to massive shift in demographic, it's no where close to the same, not even in the same universe

What does the demographics have to do with wealth inequality? What about the demographics is different and why does it allow the economy to function well at extreme inequality levels? Here's your chance to change my mind.

I wasn't a bear in 2009. I was one of the few arguing that the worst was over and the economy would be growing.

I'm not even a bear now really. I just see the structural problems and want them fixed.

I'm the one arguing against all the idiots that say everything is in a bubble. And everything is a Ponzi scheme.

Don't you dare lump me in with them.

Nope bro. We haven't met or spoken. But I have been following zero hedge, doctor housing bubble for a while and have formed my own. conclusion on few topics. I now visit zerohedge for comedic relief when I am drinking or when I get rejected by a Heffer at some random bar. . Logan Mohtashami says

Ahh just by that sentence structure I know who this is .

tatupu70 says

What does the demographics have to do with wealth inequality

As a demographic guy myself, we stick to thesis and principal, when you have very old and very young demographic shift gaps and then have Gen X clobbered by the housing crisis you have a spread gap like this.

Nothing like 1929, our economy is so much more diverse, efficient and we are more productive as a country compared to 1929

HadEnough says

zerohedge for comedic relie

Yes, its always good for a laugh

tatupu70 says

Don't you dare lump me in with them.

Fine nixed from that group ;-)

I am not lumping anyone in particular. Just sick and tired of people too focused on doom and gloom. If it will get that bad as zero hedgers proclaim then I will deal with it then which I don't think will ever occur. Till then I am counting the blessings and doing the best I have in last few years. I am genX and unlike boomers I have faith in the upcoming generation. Makes it a much worthwhile to invest in my business. tatupu70 says

Don't you dare lump me in with them.

Logan Mohtashami says

As a demographic guy myself, we stick to thesis and principal, when you have very old and very young demographic shift gaps and then have Gen X clobbered by the housing crisis you have a spread gap like this.

Nothing like 1929, our economy is so much more diverse, efficient and we are more productive as a country compared to 1929

Nope--that doesn't really explain it. We're talking about 1% of the population owning 30% of the wealth. An aging population doesn't cause that. And why would Gen X get clobbered, but boomers didn't?

tatupu70 says

And why would Gen X get clobbered, but boomers didn't?

They got impacted by the Housing bust more than any generation. Net worth nixed, a very high % had to tap into 401K and savings

Shifts with demographics with each economic cycle

M's who the oldest is now in the 30's are up to bat ...

If you want a good live census website this one has all data live

http://www.census.gov/popclock/?intcmp=home_pop

tatupu70 says

Nope--that doesn't really explain it.

Demographically in this cycle ages 17-29 were massive as well as ages 49-65

Writing an article about this and with housing starts and why it's hard to get to the 50 year average of 1.5 million

Sometime people forget that population growth is one thing but in reality, prime age labor force growth is the real key

And as always, we had good growth in 1980's and 1990's but this did peak out short term in 2007 and it's only slowly growing again

Logan Mohtashami says

They got impacted by the Housing bust more than any generation. Net worth nixed, a very high % had to tap into 401K and savings

That doesn't answer my question. The question was WHY? Since you won't answer I'll tell you. They weren't hit harder, they were just more likely to have bought at the top and not have enjoyed as much of the run-up. So, it just seems to you like they were hit harder.

Logan Mohtashami says

Demographically in this cycle ages 17-29 were massive as well as ages 49-65

Writing an article about this and with housing starts and why it's hard to get to the 50 year average of 1.5 million

Sometime people forget that population growth is one thing but in reality, prime age labor force growth is the real key

And as always, we had good growth in 1980's and 1990's but this did peak out short term in 2007 and it's only slowly growing again

Once again--that's nice, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The original question that you failed to answer was how does demographics explain the income and wealth inequality we see today?

fyi--I can explain it very easily. And I can post all the graphs if you'd like me to, but they've all been posted before.

Increasing globalization and automation have created structural unemployment. This drives wages down and increases corporate profits. Owners get much richer while labor gets poorer or the lucky ones who have jobs tread water.

I can post inequality charts, corporate profits charts, real wages charts, et. al.

It all fits.

It's not extreme to understand that U.S. Capitalism is broken.

Does it being broken mean we're all becoming serfs immediately ? Of course not. It's maybe even good for the market in the short term.

If it weren't broken the stock market might be lower than it is now. Go figure.

Even some of the 1%ers and many reputable economists have acknowledged the problem with the wealth disparity. It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this is a huge problem. Money isn't being invested in infrastructure or in education. Team logan wants to live of the residue of past successes and to hell with the long term future.

tatupu70 says

I can post inequality charts, corporate profits charts, real wages charts, et. al.

Bring those to Dinner ;-)

marcus says

Team logan

I have said this time and time again,

Low educated, Low skilled Americans need federal intervention, not state, Federal as the $ can be bigger, that isn't a very capitalist thing to say

My contention has been always. If everyone is supposed to be broke outside the 1% then the real poor don't get the help they need.

I could care less about the middle class, the data shows the poor are the ones that need help, but we don't push that agenda pushing fear, do it out strength as Bernie Sanders says, we are the wealthiest country in the world, some of programs are so small to do. :-)

HydroCabron says

tatupu70 says

How is pointing out issues with the US economy and desiring to get them fixed Anti American?

It is when "leftists" do it.

Hmmmm, I seem to remember being accused of anti-Americanism for pointing out various problems by somebody recently...