patrick.net

Marcus has me on ignore so he won't see this. To borrow a line from X, pretty damning evidence...

This is damning evidence.

My sister and her husband came up for the holiday this weekend. I heard them talking with our kids about their upcoming math courses, and their friend was saying about how she doesnt do well in math, and that there was an 18 y.o. In her algebra 1 course last year.

They are both very good teachers, and so they're always being courted for a better gig at a more prestigious school (they teach in the DC burbs in virginia). I asked if its ever discussed, that maybe the brains of some kids just arent capable of doing some of this HS math. Her husband said "thats one of those things that we aren't allowed to say" lol which reminded me of Patricks thread. I said, " oh yeah, those things. You mean the truth, right?"

errc says

I asked if its ever discussed, that maybe the brains of some kids just arent capable of doing some of this HS math.

But there seems to be a greater and greater percentage that can't.

Your thesis does not explain this trend. I would think that it has more to do with incompetent teachers, public unions and no competition than that.

Universities want these home schooled to attend college
& go into massive debt,then they can graduate & not find a job in their field of study.

Show them the money!

So, let's see. There couldn't be any bias in the data set of home schooled kids, could there??

I'll be a bit more interested when they have a study that adjusts for household income.

Even more--I would hope that home schooled kids perform better. They have class sizes averaging, what, 2 kids? Compared to public school sizes of 25-30 kids? I'll go out on a limb here and say that if we had class sizes of 1-2 in public schools--test scores would go up.

Maybe so but it certainly is a viable alternative to public school.

The National Home Education Research Institute is hardly unbiased. NHERI’s research typically does not meet the standards of scientific methodology that are commonly accepted among social scientists and are thus of limited value. It's very difficult to find any research on homeschooling that hasn't been conducted by NHERI employee Brian Ray.

standards of scientific methodology that are commonly accepted among social scientists and are thus of limited value

Those with the lowest SAT scores are the best educators! Everybody knows a stranger who barely qualified to get into a state school is better than a loving parent!

(Hint: The reason Vietnamese immigrant kids with two parents working 60 hours/week do well isn't because of the teachers, given their peers in the same class often don't graduate at all)

thunderlips11 says

Everybody knows a stranger who barely qualified to get into a state school is better than a loving parent!

I remember being at a college dive bar over 10 years afo talking to this person who taught at Edison high school in Edison nj...she admitted to me that she doesn't speak fluent Spanish despite being a high school Spanish teacher

https://www.aei.org/publication/grade-inflation-for-education-majors-and-low-standards-for-teachers/

Grade inflation for some of the worst students in any given undergrad program...shocked I say, shocked

tatupu70 says

I'll be a bit more interested when they have a study that adjusts for household income.

Yes. When they come from Westfield, the scores would be much higher than the homeschoolers surveyed in this study, which correlates nicely with their household incomes. And doggoneit, they strive to keep it that way by keeping the coloreds on their side of the tracks.

Here's what a good faith effort looks like, although fraught with problems due to limousine liberals exhibiting disproportionate influence

http://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/microcosm-of-the-city-garfield-principal-navigates-racial-divide/

Highly doubtful any limousine liberal from Westfield will vote to get students to come in from East Orange anytime soon

tatupu70 says

I'll go out on a limb here and say that if we had class sizes of 1-2 in public schools--test scores would go up.

yeah that'll happen someday

MMR says

Yes. When they come from Westfield, the scores would be much higher than the homeschoolers surveyed in this study, which correlates nicely with their household incomes. And doggoneit, they strive to keep it that way by keeping the coloreds on their side of the tracks.

Here's what a good faith effort looks like, although fraught with problems due to limousine liberals exhibiting disproportionate influence

http://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/microcosm-of-the-city-garfield-principal-navigates-racial-divide/

Highly doubtful any limousine liberal from Westfield will vote to get students to come in from East Orange anytime soon

You really won't let this die, will you. Interesting article, but how does it relate? It talks about the difficulty in integration, even when you have a diverse population.

IMO--the problem is the inequality. The schools are just a natural consequence of the inequality. If you want to fix it--fix the inequality.

MMR says

tatupu70 says

I'll go out on a limb here and say that if we had class sizes of 1-2 in public schools--test scores would go up.

yeah that'll happen someday

Of course it won't. So let's not compare apples to oranges.

I remember being at a college dive bar over 10 years afo talking to this person who taught at Edison high school in Edison nj...she admitted to me that she doesn't speak fluent Spanish despite being a high school Spanish teacher

-------------

Not surprising. When i was in HS , Senor Zapata and Senorita Tho'mas were both teaching European style Spain Spanish. Our graduating class was ~half Puerto Rican.

I got decent grades in Spanish class. But i sooke fuck all conversational Spanish as a result. I worked the better part of my 16th year trabajando a McD's. I left there fully fluent in espanol de PR.

tatupu70 says

If you want to fix it--fix the inequality.

Something disingenuous limousine liberals think they are doing by voting for welfare....when in fact they are really saying "got mine fuck you"

tatupu70 says

You really won't let this die, will you

Not really. Not until you show some integrity by admitting that a certain subset of people who are yellow dog democrats are just as much about a "got mine fuck you" policy as the republicans you like to rail on

tatupu70 says

Interesting article, but how does it relate? It talks about the difficulty in integration, even when you have a diverse population.

Thanks for reading; my point was if limousine liberals were really interested in helping poor people, they would put forth a good faith effort, as is the case with Garfield, which has its share of problems, but you won't see that with most limousine liberal communities in New Jersey or California.

In closing, to reiterate, it is phony and disingenuous for limousine liberal yellow dog democrat voters to act morally superior to republicans on this matter, presumably because they vote for welfare time and time again and republicans are loathe to do the same.

errc says

were both teaching European style Spain Spanish.

That's a tad bit cheesy. I thought the goal was to teach conversational Spanish, which for North American purposes would be geared toward Latin America

errc says

16th year trabajando a McD's. I left there fully fluent in espanol de PR.

thats pretty cool

tatupu70 says

IMO--the problem is the inequality. The schools are just a natural consequence of the inequality. If you want to fix it--fix the inequality.

The fix to this is LESS regulation, people move in and out of quintIles all by themselves, IF they are allowed to.

indigenous says

Hey, Marcus may not be that bad after all.

Strategist says

Hey, Marcus may not be that bad after all.

?

MMR says

Something disingenuous limousine liberals think they are doing by voting for welfare....when in fact they are really saying "got mine fuck you"

If anyone (liberal or conservative) believes welfare is the way to reduce inequality, they are wrong.

MMR says

Not really. Not until you show some integrity by admitting that a certain subset of people who are yellow dog democrats are just as much about a "got mine fuck you" policy as the republicans you like to rail on

wtf are you talking about? What point are you trying to make here? That some people who vote Democrat are selfish too? Uh, is that in question? If so, I'll be the first to tell you there are assholes who vote D. Happy now?

MMR says

In closing, to reiterate, it is phony and disingenuous for limousine liberal yellow dog democrat voters to act morally superior to republicans on this matter, presumably because they vote for welfare time and time again and republicans are loathe to do the same.

Except that's a strawman argument. Liberals aren't for increasing welfare to combat inequality. Try reading Sanders' platform and get back with me.

Unbelievable, we have EdX, coursera, and a slew of other college (repeat: COLLEGE) level courses on the net, many of whom, free of charge or for a mere $50, will grant a certificate, and we're still stuck on something as banal as SAT averages between HSers and homeschoolers.

It's like we're stuck in the 80s or something.

Rin says

we're still stuck on something as banal as SAT averages between HSers and homeschoolers.

Yes we are.

"Education" is more of a charade than not, particularly in regards to public schools.

Education is (for most professions) more about the certificate than the knowledge.
A dude my wife graduated with printed himself a fake diploma and started working abroad managing an Indian call center after high school. His career progressed, despite his lack of a formal liberal arts education, and he was moved around the world to set these things up and fix problems. Along the way he married and had a couple kids.
So....

tatupu70 says

Try reading Sanders' platform and get back with me.

Sanders is 'all liberals', I respectfully disagree....I think Sanders is much more of a socialist than a true liberal, but certainly more liberal than Hillary Clinton.

tatupu70 says

Liberals aren't for increasing welfare to combat inequality

really? then who votes for welfare? I'm not referring to corporate welfare either.

tatupu70 says

That some people who vote Democrat are selfish too

selfish, but also phony about it ..... you know, the type of people who characterize republicans as 'got mine fuck you'tatupu70 says

If anyone (liberal or conservative) believes welfare

limousine liberals are fake liberals, they are actually conservatives who lie about being conservative.

tatupu70 says

there are assholes who vote D. Happy now?

I think most people who vote are assholes. Only way to vote is with dollars. But that's just me

MMR says

tatupu70 says

Liberals aren't for increasing welfare to combat inequality

really? then who votes for welfare? I'm not referring to corporate welfare either.

LOL Tatupu, what's wrong with you?

MMR says

Grade inflation for some of the worst students in any given undergrad program...shocked I say, shocked

About 20 years ago, I banged an Ed Major... after she passed out from the Thunderlips treatment, I was bored and went through her textbooks... I swear to you it was all SJW diversity crap. I remember one book, that took about a half hour to read, everybody was good except the White Boy, who was abused by his alcoholic white father along with his mother. The blacks and white single mom were all wonderful people trying to push through evil society's barriers, however. The abusive drunk father thing was the only traditional two parent family (fictional: Truthiness) 'example' in the book. Everybody else was a bastard factory. Nothing about methodology.

Book was probably written by a JAP from a two-parent, traditional family.

"Worshiping the Other"

The only people I've met more vacuous than Ed Majors were a few Psych Majors.

MMR says

Sanders is 'all liberals', I respectfully disagree

I think Sanders captured the liberal base of the Democratic party. Certainly not all liberals--probably impossible to do that...

MMR says

tatupu70 says

Liberals aren't for increasing welfare to combat inequality

really? then who votes for welfare? I'm not referring to corporate welfare either.

I don't think anyone votes for welfare. I can't remember any candidate ever running on a platform of increasing welfare. Regardless, the point is that welfare is a safety net designed to keep people from dying of hunger on the streets. It's certainly NOT a mechanism to reduce inequality.

MMR says

selfish, but also phony about it ..... you know, the type of people who characterize republicans as 'got mine fuck you'

People who tell the truth then? (Many) Republicans answer to high healthcare costs is to reduce the number of people who have access. Their answer to high college education costs is to reduce the number of people who have access. And, of course, this reduction would be based on wealth. To me, that sounds an awful lot like "got mine, eff you"

Strategist says

LOL Tatupu, what's wrong with you?

Lots. Just ask my wife.

tatupu70 says

IMO--the problem is the inequality. The schools are just a natural consequence of the inequality. If you want to fix it--fix the inequality.

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is VERY different and not at all in line with yours. Let's see, there are schools at no cost everywhere. There are books at no cost, everywhere. Sounds pretty equal to me.

mmmarvel says

Mine is VERY different and not at all in line with yours. Let's see, there are schools at no cost everywhere. There are books at no cost, everywhere. Sounds pretty equal to me.

I'm not saying the schools are unequal. It's the communities that attend the schools.

Curious--what is the problem, in your opinion?

tatupu70 says

Curious--what is the problem, in your opinion?

IMO complacency. Trained to be complacent by a culture of entitlement.

Look at all of the success stories from immigrants or their children.

Before scoring on the SAT-Verbal test was made easier in mid-1995, the SAT-Verbal subtest was, in the judgement of anthropologist-geneticist Henry Harpending, the best high-end IQ test in the world.

The SAT had originally been set up so that the verbal and math tests each had a mean of 500 and a standard deviation of 100.

But they’d been normed on the student bodies of Atlantic Seaboard prep schools. Whatever else you might want to say about Choate and Groton, they had high standards for verbal precision.

So, as more and more public school students took the SAT, the mean score for the Quantitative subtest stayed pretty stable. But Verbal scores crashed down into the 420s as more of the unwashed masses with their dubious grammar signed up to take the SAT. ...

SAT Verbal scores were so low before 1995, with the number of perfect 800s being given out annually barely into double figures, that the score was pretty valid out to somewhere between and three four standard deviations above the mean. ...

After the 1995 recentering when about 70 or 80 points were added to SAT Verbal scores and about 20 points to SAT Math scores, we entered a world where there were more 1600s than slots at Harvard. ...

And then in 2017, verbal scores were boosted another 39 or so points and math scores about 18, so current overall SAT scores on a 400 to 1600 scale are now about 150 points inflated over pre-1995.