patrick.net

October 2016:
ELECTIONS! CANT BE RIGGED!! ONLY TOOTHLESS REDNECK WOULD BELIEVE!!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!
FACT!!!

December 2016:
RUSSIA RIGGED THE ELECTION!!!
FOR TRUMP!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!

Haha!

neplusultra57 says

If a wingnut isn't allowed to claim things are RIGGED! how can a rabid discussion of conspiracy and victimhood take place? What would be the point of talking about polls, or the sunrise, the real unemployment rate, Obama's birth certificate, the Central Park 5?

Patrick, how can we gild this post?

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

October 2016:
ELECTIONS! CANT BE RIGGED!! ONLY TOOTHLESS REDNECK WOULD BELIEVE!!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!
FACT!!!

December 2016:
RUSSIA RIGGED THE ELECTION!!!
FOR TRUMP!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!

These repost threads are AWESOME...

Please keep digging them up, the TDS is off the charts!!

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

October 2016:
ELECTIONS! CANT BE RIGGED!! ONLY TOOTHLESS REDNECK WOULD BELIEVE!!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!
FACT!!!

December 2016:
RUSSIA RIGGED THE ELECTION!!!
FOR TRUMP!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!

"election cannot be rigged" = "voter fraud is not at any substantial level to influence/swing the election + there is no domestic "Deep State" nefarious plot to steal the election and claiming their is damages our democracy."

"Russia rigged the election for Trump" = "Russia has an ongoing intelligence warfare campaign, headed by the GRU, with the aims to destabilize the US and destroy Western alliances. It is also pro-Trump, as he is a good vehicle for both these aims. The attack is still ongoing."

That must be one of the best for sure. I mean sure anyone get get a prediction wrong but the screaming hypocrisy here is just off the charts. lol. They were piling up like vultures on any claims of rigging during the election, ridiculing the rednecks and fapping off to their own perceived superiority of an unrigged system. Then they lose and now what? IT IS RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGEEED! WAH! MUH RUSSIAN COLLUSION! Fuck they literally wasted yuge amounts of taxpayer money on this shit while they were super cereal just a year earlier that rigging the US election is impossible! Only rednecks believe it! This will for sure be a classic leftoid batshit reversal for the books.

Rew says

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

October 2016:
ELECTIONS! CANT BE RIGGED!! ONLY TOOTHLESS REDNECK WOULD BELIEVE!!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!
FACT!!!

December 2016:
RUSSIA RIGGED THE ELECTION!!!
FOR TRUMP!
100% Irrefutable Fact!!!

"election cannot be rigged" = "voter fraud is not at any substantial level to influence/swing the election + there is no domestic "Deep State" nefarious plot to steal the election and claiming their is damages our democracy."

"Russia rigged the election for Trump" = "Russia has an ongoing intelligence warfare campaign, headed by the GRU, with the aims to destabilize the US and destroy Western alliances. It is also pro-Trump, as he is a good vehicle for both these aims. The attack is still ongoing."

Oh no, I remember specifically 'dem (no pun intended) saying: "To think/insinuate that anyone can rig the US elections is just crazy! Because we are the greatest unriggable country in the word as long as Hillary wins". There was no distinction. What they are doing now is shameful. And what's worse, they are willing to risk an arms race and war for it.

“There is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even rig America’s elections, there’s no evidence that that has happened in the past or that it will happen this time, and so I’d invite Mr. Trump to stop whining and make his case to get votes.” - Obama

Remember, when Obama/Trump are speaking about this, they are again talking about the US rigging its own elections. Obama is speaking to the decentralized nature of our elections, and that we have some of the most fare and well regulated elections in the world. Rigged internally by the US? Realm of possibility, but 'no serious person' is suggesting that, and this again is all classic "attack the institutions" stuff from Trump/alt-Right.

Trump won by roughly 30K votes in 3 States. That's within the realm of actually "rigging". Maybe it did happen?

Come on. Own the Libs and Obama! Open an investigation into 2016 election and start combatting Russian interference. You can do it!

(In all seriousness, you want Germany/Whomever propping up Globalist Liberals in 2020? Our elections could be seen as open season to the highest bidders, unless we want to preserve what we have.)

mell says

Oh no, I remember specifically 'dem (no pun intended) saying: "To think/insinuate that anyone can rig the US elections is just crazy!

One Dem in particular:

So far the only proven election interference by a Russian happened after the election was over. Those sneaky Russians managed to get a bunch of butthurt Democrats to try to destroy our country with riots and mayhem. So yah, Democrats, the Russians made you do it.
Except that fact was intentionally buried as fast as it was revealed by Facebook’s ad guy, and said ad guy was quickly fired for revealing the “wrong sort” of truth.

Rew says

Remember, when Obama/Trump are speaking about this, they are again talking about the US rigging its own elections. Obama is speaking to the decentralized nature of our elections, and that we have some of the most fare and well regulated elections in the world. Rigged internally by the US? Realm of possibility, but 'no serious person' is suggesting that, and this again is all classic "attack the institutions" stuff from Trump/alt-Right.

No, Obama flat out said with no qualifiers that no serious person would suggest you could even rig America's elections.

That's a pretty blanket statement. If Democrats with tens of thousands of activists and party apparatchiks on the ground can't do it, how did Russia do it with a few thousand dollars in facebook ads? Mostly for BLM-related shit that isn't exactly overlapping with Trump supporter interests.

What happened is that the snobby Dems who declaimed Election Rigging was impossible, turned 180 degrees and created a Russian Conspiracy. The Dem Leadership was absolutely consciously Machiavellian in this attempt.

What permanently sank Hillary was her Deploreables Speech, where she tipped the Democrats hand about replacing "Racial White Working Class People". Never mind she spent 2015 and the first quarter of 2016 trying to kiss Rustbelt ass without gaining any support. That's when she went full SJW.

Vote for me because I'm a woman. Women vote for me because I'm woman. She didn't even get the married women vote, just the Cat Ladies.

Damn. Owned.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

No, Obama flat out said with no qualifiers that no serious person would suggest you could even rig America's elections.

You cannot "rig it". You can influence it. You can cheat. Word games. Would = wouldn't.

"The election is rigged" = "The system is against me." ... Trump was wrong! The only evidence of something being off in the 2016 election we have is in his favor.

The US Government has been repeatedly saying we are being attacked by information warfare with the intent to disrupt and sway elections. It is of Russian origin. It is the Russian state itself, as the organization responsible is the GRU. This is factually declared. It is being said by Trump appointees. It is being said by all branches of our intelligence services.

You/Trump won 2016. Is that all you got?

What will Trump do in 2018? Is he, as the President, going to maintain Russia isn't waging an intelligence op against the US and our elections? Will he push for any counter measures?

Looks like dereliction of duty and smells like treason.

Gotta hand it to Hillary. She was at-least smart enough not to get caught for any crimes she may have committed. Trump ... I'm not so sure he is gonna make it here. Looking bad. Grats on 2016 win. Big beautiful red map and all that. ;)

The election is over. Donald Trump is YOUR President.
Lean into it.
He’s gonna be there a while.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

Patrick, how can we gild this post?

@TwoScoopsOfWompWomp what does gilding mean? I can do it, just need to understand it.

I think on Reddit that means giving a post a permanent place of distinction, above and beyond the # of hits.

People pay to Gild posts, I think.

Rew says

The US Government has been repeatedly saying we are being attacked by information warfare with the intent to disrupt and sway elections. It is of Russian origin. It is the Russian state itself, as the organization responsible is the GRU. This is factually declared. It is being said by Trump appointees. It is being said by all branches of our intelligence services.

Yes, the Russians spent very little money on Facebook and got a Free Tumblr account giving away Pokechoo or whatever anime crap for a contest supporting BLM-type stuff.

Most of it was spent after the election, and most of it was spent on BLM-style rhetoric. RT was pushing all that crap 2015-2016, so yeah, it was a (very minor) thing.

I'm sure you've realized, if you drew a Venn Diagram of BLM supporters and Trump supporters, the overlap would be damned small.

Of course the Russians exploit differences in America to destablize the country.

Maybe you should direct some treason accusations to BLM, since they were inspired by a convicted cop killer and Russia loves them so much. BLM issues were heavily promoted by the media.

But the idea Russia won the election because of 6 figures spent over the course of a year on this shit promoting RT/Sputnik, is laughable.

That would make the GRU vastly superior in using money to promote a campaign then every Master Dem or Republican Campaign Manager in US History.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

That would make the GRU vastly superior in using money to promote a campaign then every Master Dem or Republican Campaign Manager in US History.

There is no equivalence between the opinion and vote shaping power of a political campaign run, by Dem or Repub, within the US. That's a straw-man equivalence of your own creation.

But the GRU can muddy the waters and "point the boat" some. Couple their cyber ops with on the ground agents and financing fringe extremism, and what do you get: a potent country destabilizing mix. Look at the democracies they have attacked: Poland, Hungry, Italy, Georgia, Ukraine, UK, France, Germany, the USA. Russia knows exactly how effective what it has been doing is. It's a minimal cost for a huge gain and they have been practicing and getting better every year. They are about 1/10th our economic and military might, yet on this asymmetrical tac, they are winning big!

NATO is reeling. Russia has grabbed more territory in the past 5 years than the past 20 (big bite marks our of Georgia borders most recently). And Russia has lined up to fill trade and power vacuums the US is willingly causing by isolationism/tariffs/stupidity.

You can tell me Russia is exploiting natural cracks and trends it can readily find in these democracies already. Many are caused by economic stress, and frankly older governmental systems that may be beyond their current era/usefulness. Sure. I agree. But pretending that what Russia is doing is somehow "no big deal", "just the way the game is played" or even in US interest, is so beyond the understanding of our foreign policy and national defense concerns it renders any point you want to make to be null.

Russia is out for Russia, and specifically Putin is out to punish the US for knocking him out of superpower standing.

Don't you get it? They don't have to "win" an election or put in some Manchurian candidate. All they have to do is weaken alliances against them and hit Democracy in the gut. They are doing it, and our President isn't reacting. So far, it's only our defense, intelligence, and congressional efforts punching back. POTUS is silent, or tweeting the obscene.

So, Trump is either dangerously negligent or he is compromised. Which will it be?

(Edit: I'll accept "both" as a very strong, and likely correct answer, too.)

Obama attempted to rig Israels election - with taxpayer money. Thank God he failed or the Israelis probably would have given land for no peace.

He also tried to interfere with Brexit, even though an Economically DIS-united Europe (only united in NATO) is to our every economic advantage since we will make bespoke deals with several smaller countries instead of a German-guided powerhouse with more leverage (of course internationalist Atlanticists WANT the EU to weaken the nation state replaced by Corporate Dominated Superstates and Corporate Run "Comprehensive Multinational Trade Agreements" where they are judge and jury and legislator and cop)

Military Spending is way up. Russian mercenaries fighting with Assad's Army were literally obliterated aerially by the USAF.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-army-kill-russians-syria-civil-war-mercenaries-deir-ezzor-isis-a8268691.html

The Economy is booming. Employment is way down. Ukraine is being armed with lethal weapons, including ATGMs, something that Obama didn't dare do.
https://www.janes.com/article/79717/ukraine-receives-javelins

Europe pledged to buy increasing amounts of US LNG which is a direct blow to Russian Nordstream. Here is Sputnik's grouchy take on it:
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201808011066867641-europe-us-lng-tariffs/

Russia LOVED the Iran Deal and Lavrov was visibly pissed when it was cancelled.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/iran-nuclear-deal-trump-russia-reaction-doomed-fail-aggressive-a7999636.html

Trump is pushing for increasing NATO Contributions among the wealthy West Europeans. Most are grudgingly complying. This is not to Russia's benefit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/nato-members-post-new-defense-spending-rise-amid-trump-pressure

The Germans, who not 30 years ago fielded armored divisions plural, couldn't find a dozen functional tanks in a week to fly the flag on a NATO combined nation exercise in Eastern Europe. Pathetic!

Trump fired cruise missiles into Syria, pissing Russia the hell off who claimed a ridiculously high intercept ratio
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/russia-claims-syria-air-defences-shot-down-majority-missiles

Putin is not winning; the idea of this is absurd.

In Syria, in Ukraine, in Europe - Putin is not getting anything of what he wants. Instead, ordinary diplomacy - the mere meeting of a rival which was routine in the Cold War (WH and Kremlin officials communicated DAILY and POTUS and Premiers talked very often, both phone and in person) is cast as Treason.

None of this makes any sense. All of this is a Machiavellian fabrication to excuse away the Democrats failure and to try to immobilize a pro-American Reformer and keep the Corporate Status Quo. If the Russians are such an Existential threat - although they are a fraction of their size in the Cold War, their Navy is a fraction of the size, their Army a fraction of size - why are the Democrats weakening a National Security President who is doing everything except sinking Russian Navy vessels?

Again, just like the Democrats refuse to turn over their "Hacked" Server to the FBI/NSA for forensic analysis.

It's pure political BS and dangerous to National Security.

What substantial thing did Putin Get? More Sanctions? Better Armed Ukrainian Army? Getting a Russian "Blackwater" unit obliterated when it failed to obey US commands to stay away?

Rew says

It is also pro-Trump

I think we found where CNN has implanted their fakenews.

The rest of your statement seems like agreed upon fact, this part about these foreign agents supporting trump however is pure speculation. No official has suggested there is any evidence that the manipulators are pro trump. Nor has anyone suggested the agents effected the campaign for trump.

Also, how would you explain the anti-trump Russian propaganda if you think they support trump?

#fakenews

Rew says

All they have to do is weaken alliances against them and hit Democracy in the gut

I’m glad you realize this. That is exactly what they’ve done so far. They’ve worked to promote strife, lack of faith in elections, and they’ve worked to promote the idea that a violent revolution may be necessary to secure a “correct” government in the United States.
To that end they’ve sewn hatred between classes and races and ideologies. They’ve organied riots and uprisings and freeway shut-downs. They’ve worked to entrench Leftists in their positions, and drag those positions from ideological to the kind of batshit crazy that conservatives view with horror.

The Russians want you to #resist
The Russians want civil disorder.
The Russians want you to reject the leadership of your President and your government.
Their ultimate victory would be the USA going into Civil War II.

Why are you helping the Russians?

Rew says

What will Trump do in 2018?

Let's see:

Keep growing jobs, wages and income for ALL Americans.

Keep fighting corruption in the swamp.

Keep increasing GDP.

Keep negotiating and fixing crappy trade agreements.

Keep negotiating and trying to get peace with our enemies.

Keep trying to make America safe.

Keep trying to improve the lives of ALL Americans (not just Republicans).

Oh, and lastly....

Making your TDS rise OFF the charts...

How's that?