patrick.net

rando says

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways.

So the foundation and first story of Christianity is evil and despicable, but the second story is quite nice if you eliminate the whole slavery thing. The problem with such a house is that the second story goes down when the first story collapses.

In any case, the fact that the most faithful of American Christian pack guns in direct contrast to everything Jesus said about non-violence and pacifism demonstrates that the goody-two-shoes aspects of Jesus you think keep Christians from being radicalized, don't actually do that. And this should not come as a surprise since for 1600 out of 2000 years of Christian history, the followers of Jesus were every bit as bad as the followers of Mohamed. And the next 200 years after that wasn't much better. It's only in the past 200 years that we atheists and secularists have gotten Christians under control. Today's moderate Christian is the exception, not the norm. Don't forget that.

There is no law in the universe that states Christians won't revert to their typical ways of murder and mayhem. It requires actively fighting against delusional people like PeopleUnited to prevent that. Even if PeopleUnited doesn't go all Jihad on your ass, what makes you think his son, grandson, or great grandson won't? Time is not on our side. Left uncheck, Christianity would progress to ever more violent stages just like it did when the Romans legalized it, and for the exact same reasons.

rando says

The Muslims want to impose Sharia on the whole world, and are determined to murder everyone who is in their way. And there are shit ton of them, and they are very aggressive about proselytizing.

Christianity was exactly this way for 80% of its history. Without strong opposition, it would become this way again.

rando says

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways.

That's because Mohammad the illiterate terrorist had to steal other people's patents. Mohammad only knew how to murder, rape, steal, enslave, molest, and BS like hell.

Strategist says

rando says

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways.

The Jews follow the Old Testament, yet have not been violent in over 2000 years. The Christians follow the New Testament and have been violent for most of the past 2000 years. That puts a nail in the coffin of the argument that the content of scripture matters.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Anyone who cares what God has said is capable of finding and verifying this truth for themselves.

Empirically false. Muslims worship the same god as you, the god of Abraham. They believe even more fervently than you do. Every Islamic terrorist attack including 9/11 was carried out by the faithful. Your god creates terrorists.

Nice try. But as anyone with an iota of knowlege knows, Allah is not Elohim. Why do you have to make shit up? Why do you have to resort to false accusations? Perhaps it is because you have no knowledge of God. Don't worry, He will forgive you, if you let Him.

rando says

Dan8267 says

But his father most certainly did. And his daddy called for genocide, rape, and infanticide.

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways. But even the most literal hard core Orthodox Jew wants only the Jews to obey the literal Law of Moses. There are not very many Orthodox Jews, and Jews don't try to convert anyone, and they don't try to impose Jewish law by force.

The Muslims want to impose Sharia on the whole world, and are determined to murder everyone who is in their way. And there are shit ton of them, and they are very aggressive about proselytizing.

Exactly, the parts of the Old Testament that many find disturbing were written as a history, and the laws of Moses and such were written for the Jews, and not for anyone else. Many of the Jews chose to follow God's laws, but they also had the option of rejecting God and leaving, going to live in another land where the other non-Jewish people lived. God never forced Himself on anyone.

PeopleUnited says

Nice try. But as anyone with an iota of knowlege knows, Allah is not Elohim. Why do you have to make shit up? Why do you have to resort to false accusations?

The only one here who is bullshitting is you. Facts are easily verified in the Information Age, so I'm calling you out as a liar.

Islam was founded by Mohamed, who basically stole from the two most popular religions of his time, Christianity and Judaism. Islamic mythology extends directly from both Judaism and Christianity. This is a hard core fact. You don't get to rewrite history to suit your narrative.

The New York Metropolitan Museum: The Prophet Muhammad and the Origins of Islam

The rise of Islam is intrinsically linked with the Prophet Muhammad, believed by Muslims to be the last in a long line of prophets that includes Moses and Jesus.

When he was roughly forty, Muhammad began having visions and hearing voices. Searching for clarity, he would sometimes meditate at Mount Hira, near Mecca. On one of these occasions, the Archangel Gabriel (Jibra'il in Arabic) appeared to him and instructed him to recite "in the name of [your] lord." This was the first of many revelations that became the basis of the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam.

One night, while the Prophet was sleeping, the Archangel Gabriel came and led him on a journey. Mounted on the heavenly steed Buraq, Muhammad traveled from the Ka'ba in Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque," which Muslims believe to be the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. There he prayed with other prophets such as Moses, Abraham, and Jesus, and ascended to the skies, where he was led by Gabriel through Paradise and Hell, and finally came face to face with God. He then returned to earth to continue spreading the message of Islam. According to Islamic belief, Muhammad was the only person to see Heaven and Hell while still alive.

There you have it. The same Abraham from the Christian Old Testament and the same Jesus and Archangel Gabriel from the Christian New Testament. Notice that I have provided actual evidence from a creditable source to back up my claims. But hey, since when does evidence actually mean anything to the religious?

PeopleUnited says

You and Dan and the other haters can quit talking about God and I will too.

Are you incapable of making straw man arguments? I don't hate your fictitious god. It's impossible to hate a character that doesn't exist. Your straw man is ridiculous. It's like saying I hate Darth Vader or Lord Voldemort.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Nice try. But as anyone with an iota of knowlege knows, Allah is not Elohim. Why do you have to make shit up? Why do you have to resort to false accusations?

The only one here who is bullshitting is you. Facts are easily verified in the Information Age, so I'm calling you out as a liar.

Islam was founded by Mohamed, who basically stole from the two most popular religions of his time, Christianity and Judaism. Islamic mythology extends directly from both Judaism and Christianity. This is a hard core fact. You don't get to rewrite history to suit your narrative.

The New York Metropolitan Museum: The Prophet Muhammad and the Origins of Islam

The rise of Islam is intrinsically link...

So to recap, some child molester way back in history borrows from the Old Testament and New Testament and invents a new false God he calls Allah, and since you cite an article on the internet that this happened, that means Allah and Elohim are the same thing? Brilliant.

You have found a new low Dan. I am amazed at your desperation.

PeopleUnited says

So to recap, some child molester way back in history borrows from the Old Testament and New Testament and invents a new false God he calls Allah, and since you cite an article on the internet that this happened, that means Allah and Elohim are the same thing? Brilliant.

As oppose to the other people who invented the false gods of Yahweh and Jesus?

The bottom line is that the deity is the same. The only case you can make that the two characters are different is if they are fictional. If your god were real, that would mean the Muslims worship him as well. The best case you or they could make against the other is that you are misinterpreting that god's wishes. But if there were an actual being behind the god, then both Christianity and Islam would be referring to that same being.

Once again, you don't get to rewrite history. Muslims are worshiping the same god as you. Clearly your false god doesn't mind or he would make his real wishes abundantly clear.

PeopleUnited says

some child molester

Jesus supported slavery. It's in the New Testament. Slavery in the ancient world, just like in American history, included sex slavery of children. Pot meet kettle.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

You and Dan and the other haters can quit talking about God and I will too.

Are you incapable of making straw man arguments? I don't hate your fictitious god. It's impossible to hate a character that doesn't exist. Your straw man is ridiculous. It's like saying I hate Darth Vader or Lord Voldemort.

I didn't bring up any other religion than Islam. You did. I simply responded to your false accusations regarding the one true God of Christianity and His followers. We can stop talking about Him anytime you decide to quit talking about Him and His followers.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

some child molester

Jesus supported slavery. It's in the New Testament. Slavery in the ancient world, just like in American history, included sex slavery of children. Pot meet kettle.

Red herring. Are you accusing Jesus of being a child molester? Seriously, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Are you done talking about God (and making shit up about God yet)?

If you changed your name back to Vaticanus your arguments would carry more weight.
Images of luxurious palaces and gold chinaware come to mind.
PeopleUnited sounds like a british soccer team...

PeopleUnited says says

You and

Dan8267 says

Once again, you don't get to rewrite history. Muslims are worshiping the same god as you. Clearly your false god doesn't mind or he would make his real wishes abundantly clear.

Neither do you get to rewrite history. The Bible is what God says about Himself. Anything else that anyone else says about Him is subject to verification. Including what you and I say. But just because some idiot wrote another book whether it be the Book of Mormon or any other religious book claiming to be about God or Jesus, doesn't mean jack shit regarding Jesus Himself. Let Jesus speak for Himself, and you can find his words in the Bible.

BlueSardine says

If you changed your name back to Vaticanus your arguments would carry more weight.

Images of luxurious palaces and gold chinaware come to mind.

PeopleUnited sounds like a british soccer team...

PeopleUnited says says

You and

Vaticanus was kind of a joke name. But I agree it does sound pretty badass.

PeopleUnited says

We can stop talking about Him anytime you decide to quit talking about Him and His followers.

I am not going to be silent in the face of evil. Christian brainwash children every day. It's the worst and most prevalence form of child abuse in our society. How about you Christians leave children alone. If you cannot convince a rational adult of your false religion, you should not be allowed to brainwash children.

If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

PeopleUnited says

If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea

Yeah, that says all we need to know about Christianity being "harmless".

@Patrick, still think there's no major downsides to tolerating Christianity or that Christians could not be radicalized? How different, fundamentally, does PeopleUnited sound from a Muslim?

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea

Yeah, that says all we need to know about Christianity being "harmless".

@Patrick, still think there's no major downsides to tolerating Christianity or that Christians could not be radicalized? How different, fundamentally, does PeopleUnited sound from a Muslim?

I didn't say it genius, Jesus did. And it is a warning and promise from God. I suggest you heed it. God follows through with His promises.

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell"

PeopleUnited says

And it is a warning and promise from God. I suggest you heed it.

Spoken like a true Muslim, er, Christian. Same diff.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

And it is a warning and promise from God. I suggest you heed it.

Spoken like a true Muslim, er, Christian. Same diff.

Nope the difference is that a Muslim will kill you for insulting his prophet, I will just gently remind you that my God keeps His promises.

The difference is a mere century of devolution. Left uncheck, you'd Christians would rival Muslims in cruelty just like you did for 80% of your history.

Dan8267 says

The difference is a mere century of devolution. Left uncheck, you'd Christians would rival Muslims in cruelty just like you did for 80% of your history.

More making shit up. Moreover, since Christianity predates Islam, your devolution claim doesn't even make sense. Clearly no intelligence here. You must be a bot.

PeopleUnited says

More making shit up. Moreover, since Christianity predates Islam, your devolution claim doesn't even make sense. Clearly no intelligence here. You must be a bot.

It is a historical fact that Christianity became oppressive and violent after the Romans legalized it. Your statement is empirically false.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

More making shit up. Moreover, since Christianity predates Islam, your devolution claim doesn't even make sense. Clearly no intelligence here. You must be a bot.

It is a historical fact that Christianity became oppressive and violent after the Romans legalized it. Your statement is empirically false.

The RCC is Christian in name only. The RCC was torturing Christians for centuries. http://amazingdiscoveries.org/R-Reformation_Rome_crusade_slaughter

Just because someone claims to be a Christian, doesn't make them a Christian. There may be some people in the RCC that are Christians, but their leaders never were.

Martin Luther discovered this with the help of God and many others have as well.

PeopleUnited says

Just because someone claims to be a Christian, doesn't make them a Christian.

What makes a person a Christian is the belief in the divinity and resurrection of Christ. Many such people have committed genocide, rape, torture, and infanticide over the past 2000 years. The Roman Catholic Church is certainly Christian. Again, you don't get to rewrite history.

Dan, your hatred for Christianity blinds you. You are a blind man.

FortWayne says

Dan, your hatred for Christianity blinds you.

I hate evil. Christianity is simply a specific example of evil. Any good person would have Christianity for the exact same reasons he hates Nazism. Both movements have committed genocide, rape, torture, infanticide, and brainwashing.

I have backed up all my claims with historic evidence. You have nothing more than a baseless assertion.

Dan8267 says

It is a historical fact that Christianity became oppressive and violent after the Romans legalized it. Your statement is empirically false.

Actually the biggest reason Constantine recognized (which means christians got state support like the pagan religions, it was very profitable to be a state recognized religion in those days) Christianity is he thought it would stop the brutal fighting between the various christen factions which was actually destabilizing his empire. Didn't work out. Christianity started out violent and oppressive well before Constantine. .

The root cause of any extremism is the "success" that laundry room operators have in brainwashing the young. The communist knew it and islamists know it. The way to stop it is to prevent certain imams from speaking.....by any means necessary.

Never fails.

After every Islamic inspired terrorist attack, the usual monkeys are criticizing Christianity.

ISIS loves the free PR.

All those Christians murdered in Egypt yesterday for having the temerity to peacefully celebrate Palm Sunday - not so much.

bob2356 says

Christianity started out violent and oppressive well before Constantine. .

But it got worse thus demonstrating that Christianity can become more radicalized with time.

Dan8267 says

Well, I am. There is plenty in the history of Christianity that merits criticism.

In history - sure.

If you think you are making some sort of cogent point to comparing human activity from 2,000 years ago to contemporary Islam, I am failing to see it.

I'm sure you would take issue with me criticizing atheists for the hundreds of millions killed 50 short years ago under the banner of Communism where post-religious fanatical "enlightened Man" had no moral constraints trying to create heaven on earth.

socal2 says

In history - sure.

History matters. The present is an arbitrary point in time, and history repeats itself. Just because you live in a time where Christianity is contained does not mean that will be the case in the future. The price of freedom and safety is eternal vigilance.

socal2 says

I'm sure you would take issue with me criticizing atheists for the hundreds of millions killed 50 short years ago

Yes, because atheism had no more to do with that than mustaches and you know that because we've gone over that a hundred times.

In contrast, the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades are intrinsic to Christianity.

Now if you want to argue that the mass murder by Stalin and Mao were examples of authoritarianism being evil, go right ahead.

Dan - where is your picture of the skateboarder punk getting a BJ by the Jesus statue?

Surely that ranks up there with the 50 Coptic Christians killed by Islamists yesterday in Egypt. Let alone the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the tens of thousands of Christians in the Middle East over the last few years or the massive persecution Christians face in China.

Christianity is literally the most persecuted ideological group in the world today - and Florida Dan is on the case taking a big giant dump on them.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/christianity-most-persecuted-religion_b_2402644.html

Bravo Dan! So edgy and brave!

Dan8267 says

Yes, because atheism had no more to do with that than mustaches and you know that because we've gone over that a hundred times.

Atheism is a central tenet of Communism practiced in the Soviet Union and China. There is no white-washing away the fanatical zealotry atheism had in the spread of Communism and all that human suffering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism

socal2 says

Surely that ranks up there with the 50 Coptic Christians killed by Islamists yesterday in Egypt.

It doesn't, and that's a straw man argument. Rape isn't as bad as murder, but why would one make rape legal? There's not connection.

The arrest and prosecution of the boy for blasphemy -- and that's what they were really prosecuting no matter what they call it -- is utterly unacceptable. And allowing Christianity in our society does not in any way help defeat Islam. In fact, tolerance for Christianity helps Islam by letting an irrational playing field exist.

socal2 says

Christianity is literally the most persecuted ideological group in the world today

Well, that's just bullshit. But the disregard for the truth is yet another reason that no religion, including Christianity, should be tolerated.