patrick.net

Heraclitusstudent says

I disagree. First we don't need 10 JP. All we need 4-5 popular podcasters dedicated to the truth and reason to throw off the mainstream narrative train and rub the media's nose into its lies with devastating efficiency.

Good news:
Styxhexenhammer (261k subscribers)
Sargon (831k subscribers)
Rubin Report (850k)
Paul Joseph Watson's own channel ( 1.3M) for starters.

NYT has 1.4M, barely ahead of Watson and only double Sargon (a lone youtuber) and Rubin (a tiny operation).
MNBC has 1.3M.
InfoWars main channel had 2.5M.
CNN has 4M.

When it comes to engagement, I'd bet good money that the lone Youtubers or Rubin has engagement numbers much superior to the Times.

Well, the Good News is that Infowars, which was already surpassing most of the Legacy Media BEFORE the ban, (ABC, BBC, NYT, NPR, WSJ, USA Today, Reuters, Bloomberg, MSNBC, HuffPo, and CBS) now surpasses CNN.



Gonna go download it on my phone now.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

I hate to see Jordan Peterson classified as a conservative, as surely Ben Shapro's excellent takedown of that BS surely will lead some to conclude. JP is socially conservative and a good voice against SJW nonsense on college campuses, but I consider him a moerate. Where as Ben Shapiro is clearly a conservative commentator (a rare good one - most of the time).

I read that NYT times piece, then I found this.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/30825/new-york-times-runs-comprehensive-hit-piece-jordan-ben-shapiro

I doubt that Nellie Bowles had a directive from high up to take down JP. I think she's just a prisoner of her biasses, as she was programmed as a hummanities major in a modern university. Thus not capable of objectively looking at Jordan Peterson - although she claims to have considered many of his videos. Possibly she simply lacks the objectivity and or bandwidth to give him honest consideration. In any case Ben Shapiro earns points with me on this one, and the NYT loses. Even if it is just an opinion piece in the "style" section.

Ha, and since competence hierarchies are real and do exist, she might want to consider looking for another line of work, after the epic fail that article was for her. Or perhaps Ms. or Self magazine would have a place for her ?

marcus says

I doubt that Nellie Bowles had a directive from high up to take down JP. I think she's just a prisoner of her biasses, as she was programmed as a hummanities major in a modern university. Thus not capable of objectively looking at Jordan Peterson - although she claims to have considered many of his videos. Possibly she simply lacks the objectivity and or bandwidth to give him honest consideration. In any case Ben Shapiro earns points with me on this one, and the NYT loses.

Once you feel part of a (political) tribe, you can't escape it's narratives. When confronted with cognitive dissonance about these narratives, your brain will automatically rationalize things to revert toward consonance. The smarter you are, the better you are at it. Therefore everyone that disagrees with your narratives can ONLY be motivated (overtly or covertly) by the narratives of the out-group, i.e. the right wing themes like "war on women", "white nationalism", etc, etc... The only alternative would be an emotionally painful reassessment of your group and your own identity. This is how propaganda works. This is how tribalism works. It is in that sense irrelevant whether she was instructed to do it. She is absolutely not capable to think anything better.

You will see the exact same when right wingers on patnet claim everyone on the left are nazis, or communists, or "collectivists" (or any other keyword reserved for the lunacy of the out-group, and the use of which instantly terminates critical thinking), typically taking anecdotes as proofs of the matter.

Luckily, long form discussions, on podcasts or youtube, make quick work of the blatant dishonesty. All the SJWs achieve by debating JP is exposing their biases. The beauty of it is that they aren't even fully aware how badly they come out of it.

CBOEtrader says

Wrongthink voices are being wiped out before they even speak.

Nah, we can't even shut you up with your silly repeated generalized claim that the left are nazis.

Heraclitusstudent says

Once you feel part of a (political) tribe, you can't escape it's narratives.

Very true. But some of us manage to not really fit one tribe or the other. I'm a conservative by many standards, but known as a flaming liberal around here. The long form discussions you referred to, give a moderate such as myself a chance to actually (usually) be of a fan of someone like Ben Shapiro, becasue of the caution he exercises in the way he makes his arguments and the way in which he engages with those of different opinions.

After years of interacting with trolls online, and or listening to emotional sound bite driven MS media, its extremely refreshing to listen to people that are seemingly friends intelligently discuss difficult topics from differing political poles and finding common ground.

It gives a person hope.

(although I guess some might argue that the SJWs and the neo nazis on the right are excluded )

Aphroman says

What is stopping anyone from reporting facts and having intellectual discussions about them?

Youtube/google/FB for starters. Dont believe me? Try this: go tweet an article discussing the IQ differential between blacks and whites. Watch how quickly you get shut down.

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

Wrongthink voices are being wiped out before they even speak.

Nah, we can't even shut you up with your silly repeated generalized claim that the left are nazis.

If I tweeted the things I write in here I'd be shut down within a few days.

marcus says

I hate to see Jordan Peterson classified as a conservative

JP is a classic libertarian/liberal. Unfortunately that makes him a Nazi in today's environment.

CBOEtrader says

Unfortunately that makes him a Nazi in today's environment

Only to you.

marcus says

Where as Ben Shapiro is clearly a conservative commentator

Yup, and dave ruben is a libertarian who once was a progressive. These are 3 of the youtubers I listen to the most. Their unifying characteristic is a belief in individual rights over collectivism.

All 3 have been called Nazis by the left for criticizing progressive fascism.

CBOEtrader says

article discussing the IQ differential between blacks and whites. Watch how quickly you get shut down

Probably rightfully so. Most people who would want to tweet that either have a racist agenda, or they don't really understand the generalizations that are not implied by the data. Why would someone want to go there (that topic) in a twitter environment filled with political trolls.

CBOEtrader says

article discussing the IQ differential between blacks and whites. Watch how quickly you get shut down

Probably rightfully so. Most people who would want to tweet that either have a racist agenda, or they don't really understand the generalizations that are not implied by the data. Why would someone want to go there (that topic) in a twitter environment filled with political trolls.

Aphroman says

Do you feel that private sector should be allowed to have a TOS and guidelines for what they deem acceptable?

sure, unless they only apply the TOS to silence political dissidents.

marcus says

Probably rightfully so.

So you agree that some facts cant be discussed, but you wouldnt want to express the non PC facts, therefore it's cool if noone can?

Do you disagree with your hero JP who feels this IQ discussion is at the core of societal importance? Sorry, I do agree w JP. If society wants to fixate on equality of results, it is imperative to discuss differences in IQ levels that drive those results rather than blaming white patriarchy.

Not trying to change the topic to IQ, just pointing out that facts DO matter and DO need to be expressed. Censoring non-PC thought is tyrannical and wrong.

Or rather than IQ, what about violence in the black community?

Try tweeting out facts regarding black on black crime. You'd get labeled a racist, doxxed until you are fired, etc... I forget the economist but I remember reading about a black economist who said that PC culture is the biggest enemy to economists helping the black community. He pointed out that most economic minds weren't allowed to ponder "racist" questions, such as "what can the black community do to improve it's own situation?" The only acceptable academic PC assumed racism is the problem, and therefore you cant research real world solutions (since suggesting blacks cause their own problems is racist).

^do you want PC culture. Or do you want the truth?

Aphroman says

What if a church is selling advertising on their new digital marquee, should they be forced to offer platform to gay porn site that wants to advertise there?

If it were the only marquee in the country and gay porn was routinely advertised there already, then yes. If they selectively choose to enforce the rules against political opponents that would be an infringement of rights.

It’s sad when corporations want to police political discourse. We have a congress to pass laws, and we have a judiciary to judge disputes. We don’t need vigilante corporations to suppress ideas they consider offensive or wrong.

The way left hates white, they are today’s Nazis. They vilified being white, like Hitler vilified Jews. They blame whites for all the problems.

Your party is Nazi, Marcus, you are just too bought into it to see it.

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

Unfortunately that makes him a Nazi in today's environment

Only to you.

CBOEtrader says

JP who feels this IQ discussion is at the core of societal importance? Sorry, I do agree w JP. If society wants to fixate on equality of results, it is imperative to discuss differences in IQ levels that drive those results rather than blaming white patriarchy.

You totally misunderstand what JP has said. HE never said anything close to that. He has talked about IQ differences, which are different on average but at the level of selected individuals it's irrelevant. Further more there are other factors I won't go in to that make it difficult to get representative scores for entire races, while controlling for educational differences.

Peterson is opposed to going for equality of outcome. But he never said: "it is imperative to discuss differences in IQ levels that drive those results rather than blaming white patriarchy." He's simply opposed to blaming white patriarchy as oppressive, and argues that meritocracy works and is what people are conflating with Patriarchy. He also sometimes talks about how if someone has an IQ of 80 or lower(perhaps the border he cites is lower), it's really going to be hard for them to make a living. If anything this is an argument for safety nets, which he is not opposed to.

There are alt right types that misunderstand Peterson and use him to defend their racism. Sadly you seem to fit that description.

CBOEtrader says

Censoring non-PC thought is tyrannical and wrong

There will always be censorship, that is people that aren't going to be allowed in the conversation. See the last few minutes of this.

Below JP with interesting political commentary starting at about 10:00

At 12:30 he seems to be advocating censoring you, or people like you, AT LEAST FROM SOME CONVERSATIONS.

www.youtube.com/embed/E1PeOfbT_q0

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6036481/Democratic-senator-sayys-Infowars-takedown-good-start.html

Democrats back Infowars takedown as one senator wants MORE accounts squelched and another says social media companies should be legally liable for everything their users post
Apple, Facebook, Spotify and YouTube have banned broadcasts and podcasts from conspiracy theorist Alex Jones
Democratic senator from Connecticut calls it 'a good start' and hints that he wants a more heavy-handed approach to squelching fringe speech
Another Democrat, from Virginia, wrote a draft policy white paper that proposes making social media outlets legally liable for what their users post
Jones is known for conspiracy theories, including calling the Snady Hook shooting a hoax and the 9-11 terror attacks an 'inside job'
'See?' a Republican House aide said drily, 'it's not paranoia if they actually are out to get you'

Patrick says

Democrats back Infowars takedown as one senator wants MORE accounts squelched and another says social media companies should be legally liable for everything their users post

Yep. It's not going to end with Alex Jones. This was testing the waters. They're going to get more aggressive. New Media is an existential threat, a threat to their class status/pride, and how their enemies bypass their control of decreasingly influential Legacy Media.

It's funny it's all Sandy Hook, something that happened years ago; but the other 99% of what Jones said, particularly in the last year or so, which was mostly regular political commentary, was wiped away because of it.

Meanwhile, Social Media fulfills Alex Jones' prophecy that Social Media would Censor him.

FortWayne says

Your party is Nazi, Marcus, you are just too bought into it to see it.

So Fort Wayne joins CBOE in labeling the entire democratic party as nazis ? Isn't that close enough to to invoke Godwins law ? Not that it isn't idiotic enough anyway to speak for itself.

I don't agree that SJWs are anything like Nazis. I don't agree with them, on their emphasis on identity politics or on their tendencies to want their campuses to be safe spaces from free speech. But they are a small minority of the democratic party. The censorship meme association with the left is way overblown.

Alex Jones got people riled up that Sandy Hook didn't actually happen. That type of conspiracy theory is completely different than whacky ones about the Bush family being reptilians or whatever. Because it's taking tragedy that happened to people and making a mockery of it. People have harassed some of those parents becasue of Jones. He also promoted pizzagate.

I'm fine with Jones being excluded from facebook. I can't believe it didn't happen about a week after he started the Sandy Hook BS.

It's fine and even necessary to have real journalists researching conspiracy theories. But when someone comes on TV yelling and screaming about them while they still are conspiracy theories ? (and likely false ?)

I would have a tough time coming up with a better example than some of Alex Jones' stories fitting the "yelling fire in a crowded movie theater" metaphor.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

It's funny it's all Sandy Hook, something that happened years ago; but the other 99% of what Jones said, particularly in the last year or so, which was mostly regular political commentary, was wiped away because of it.

That's the Liberals... always making a big deal about the "needles" and totally ignoring the "haystacks".

marcus says

You totally misunderstand what JP has said. HE never said anything close to that. He has talked about IQ differences, which are different on average but at the level of selected individuals it's irrelevant.

Lol, what is this theory? IQ doesnt matter? Before I laugh too much, please clarify

marcus says

But when someone comes on TV

You mean when he expresses his opinion on his social media channel or personally owned radio station?

Its is absolutely tyrannical to censor political speech, no matter what form his takes. Should we censor the daily show for using snippets of facts strung together in jokes that hit too fast to make sense yet are designed to push a narrative?

If the koch brothers censored left wing extremists like madonna for example, you'd have a huge problem w it.

I'd prefer anyone could say anything whatsoever. Of speech is to be policed, can we at least have some fair treatment rather than selective censorship?

Cause it sure likes the left just points and says, "that influential non believer needs to be silenced." You are insane if you think AJ is the last (or the first).

marcus says

So Fort Wayne joins CBOE in labeling the entire democratic party as nazis ? Isn't that close enough to to invoke Godwins law ?

I’d estimate that 75% of the Democrat politicians view extreme Leftists with skepticism at least, and don’t agree with their ideas. Of those, precious few have made any attempt to distance themselves from that hateful and extreme rhetoric.

If the extreme Leftists are Nazis, or at least Nazi-adjacent, what do we call the politicians who just go along with them without criticizing their radical agenda? Maybe they’re afraid of being on the wrong side of a movement or losing votes or whatever.
Let’s ask this a different way: what do we call Germans who joined the Nazi party in the 1930s just so they wouldn’t have to have a conflict with greater German society? Are they still Nazis, even though they may not have fully believed the hateful message of that party? History would argue that actions always trump feelings or words. When you gas a million Jews, you don’t get a free pass because you weren’t really that into it.

Same thing applies when you support repealing the Bill of Rights because it seems politically expedient.

CBOEtrader says

IQ doesnt matter?

Are you trying to be ironic ?

CBOEtrader says

Before I laugh too much, please clarify

I already did.

Left blame whites for everything
Nazis blames Jews for everything

Left promoting removal of whites from society
Nazis promotes removal of Jews from society

Left demand everything white be removed from culture and their property redistributed
Nazis demanded everything Jew be removed from culture and their property redistributed.

Nazis were socialists
Left is socialist

Plenty of same there. And when kamela Harris gets elected, you’ll see it even more vividly. Left isn’t far from burning people alive.

marcus says

FortWayne says

Your party is Nazi, Marcus, you are just too bought into it to see it.

So Fort Wayne joins CBOE in labeling the entire democratic party as nazis ? Isn't that close enough to to invoke Godwins law ? Not that it isn't idiotic enough anyway to speak for itself.

I don't agree that SJWs are anything like Nazis. I don't agree with them, on their emphasis on identity politics or on their tendencies to want their campuses to be safe spaces from free speech. But they are a small minority of the democratic party. The censorship meme association with the left is way overblown.

Alex Jones got people riled up that Sandy Hook didn't actually happen. That type of conspiracy theory is completely different than whacky ones about the Bush family being reptilians or whatever. Because it's taking tragedy that happened to people and making a mockery of it. People have harassed some o...

Those against free speech are really against free thought.

FortWayne says

Left blame whites for everything
Nazis blames Jews for everything

Republitards blame "liberals" for everything

FortWayne says

Left promoting removal of whites from society

Yeah there was that one whacko SJW on twitter with a comment that almost implied that.

FortWayne says

Left isn’t far from burning people alive.

Just a tad hyperbolic don't you think ?

marcus says

IQ differences, which are different on average but at the level of selected individuals it's irrelevant.

This is correct. There are average differences between groups but that fact does not determine the IQ of any individual.

James Damore was trying to make this very point with respect to female interest in engineering (very low, on average) but got fired from Google because of it. Everything he said was correct, but it did not fit the Inquisition's narrative of "bad white men" (not Asian men, somehow) stopping women from being engineers. Here is his graph from the memo that got him fired:



What we have now is a violently intolerant cabal which refuses to question its own orthodoxy, no matter how harmful or how provably false. They have control over almost all employment, public education, university policy, and the media both old and new.They will fire anyone who dares speak up for the truth, and will even set upon them with clubs if they try to speak at universities. And now they are attempting overt censorship online.

The fact that Google fired Damore for speaking sympathetically and correctly about these factual differences proves that Google is evil.

We are in desperate need of uncensorable distributed discussion and search systems. I think it could be done with browser-to-browser communication.

marcus says

Are you trying to be ironic ?

Are you just trolling now? You accuse me of misunderstanding JP, then you completely misrepresent what JP says about IQ and refuse to clarify your statement. sigh

TBC, JP specifically identifies the race IQ differentials and the subsequent differential in life success. He states that the tyrannical progressives who want to blame the patriarchy are flat wrong. As long as we arent allowed to discuss things like IQ differential without fear of being labelled racist, we dont have a chance to solve problems like this.

So, please let the forum know how you will misinterpret JP's truthful message into your flawed worldview.

marcus says

FortWayne says

Left isn’t far from burning people alive.

Just a tad hyperbolic don't you think ?

A little, but not much. Please see torture of a trump supporter. Low IQ Don Lemon refused to call this act evil:www.youtube.com/embed/99q0wO0ZjfE

Here's a shortlist of attacks on Trump supporters : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUVuzbfu3aQ

Here's a recent example of a mob hunting down Trump supporters in LA :http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-proud-boys-bar-20180717-story.html

And a shortlist of conservatives censored for having wrongthink opinions: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/05/26/10-times-facebook-censored-conservatives.html

Noone is pretending it is ALL LEFTISTS, just like most Germans in pre ww2 probably had no intention of physically assaulting Jews. However the establishment is absolutely left leaning and oppressing Trump supporters, with the silence and implied support of the masses. This is VERY MUCH like the 1930's Nazi's, wherein most Germans were happy that Jews were separated/censored/not allowed professorial jobs, etc...I'm sure those Germans who supported soft oppression never thought the Nazi's would kill every Jew they could. Pick up a history and learn how/why/when humanity devolves into its worst form. Today's left is showing all the signs of going full Nazi

Patrick says

What we have now is a violently intolerant cabal which refuses to question its own orthodoxy, no matter how harmful or how provably false. They have control over almost all employment, public education, university policy, and the media both old and new.They will fire anyone who dares speak up for the truth, and will even set upon them with clubs if they try to speak at universities. And now they are attempting overt censorship online.

who does this sound like?