patrick.net

CBOEtrader says

Is there a comparable gas car that you can bang a rin-style hooker on the way to dinner?

I'd pay like 30% more for a Ford Raptor that drove itself

A Limo should do it. More leg room when she spreads them or goes on her knees.

Strategist says

Back in 2005 when my kids were still young, we needed to replace a Mini van.

Too bad this was not around "back in the day". Looks like you can get 33 miles all on electricity.
We opted for the 2018 Limited Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid model, and after all was said and done, it came to $43K. We got the full $7,500 federal tax credit and the $500 rebate from the state of Connecticut, bringing the cost to $35K... Our 10- and 13-year-old kids helped us out and did the math, concluding that we can get two Chevy Bolts and one Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid for the cost of one Tesla X.

MrMagic says

I'm sure that acceleration really comes in handy when sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on a CA Freeway.

So the only time Tesla owners drive is during the busiest times and only on the freeway? And they never get to use that acceleration?

Like I said, I dislike Musk and won't be buying an EV vehicle anytime soon unless they can start getting 400 miles/charge consistently and can charge in the same time it takes to fuel up. That said, it's a nice car. Saying otherwise makes it apparent one hasn't driven one. Someone can have an opinion about a product, but if someone hasn't used said product, or experienced it, their opinion is kind of trash.

WookieMan says

MrMagic says

I'm sure that acceleration really comes in handy when sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on a CA Freeway.

So the only time Tesla owners drive is during the busiest times and only on the freeway? And they never get to use that acceleration?

Teslas are eligible for HOV stickers. So they can use that acceleration while flying past bumper-to-bumper traffic on a CA freeway. And pay 1/2 of the bridge toll.

WookieMan says

So the only time Tesla owners drive is during the busiest times and only on the freeway? And they never get to use that acceleration?

That's true, I'm sure they get to use all that acceleration as they race through downtown LA, right?

Oh, wait...

WookieMan says

That said, it's a nice car.

How do you know if you don't own one?

WookieMan says

Someone can have an opinion about a product, but if someone hasn't used said product, or experienced it, their opinion is kind of trash.

Just like you posted above?

Preston Tucker. Except Tucker could deliver.

MrMagic says

WookieMan says

That said, it's a nice car.

How do you know if you don't own one?

What are you talking about? Never said I owned one. I have ACTUALLY driven one. Multiple times. Enough to know it's a nice car. Have you driven one? Yes or no? If not, your opinion is as bad as the Musk fan boys that tout the car and have NEVER driven it.

Like I said, I have ZERO intention of buying one in the near future. I like my gassers. I also know when I encounter a good product. I'm more frugal and will wait for prices to come down. I'm not going to burn the product down without ever having used it. I guess people like to do that nowadays.

WookieMan says

I have ZERO intention of buying one in the near future. I like my gassers.

Me too.

Look at that, we agree on something, you can now relax.

MrMagic says

WookieMan says

I have ZERO intention of buying one in the near future. I like my gassers.

Me too.

Look at that, we agree on something, you can now relax.

We agree on more than you think. Don't fool yourself.

And don't worry, I'm 1,000% relaxed. I don't recall what you said you did, but if I bashed your company or product without having used it, you would take offense. This is undeniable. I'm not defending Musk, just the practice of humans trashing shit they've never used or experienced. Don't believe everything you read. I'm sure GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, etc are all on board with Tesla doing well. They would NEVER try to trash the competition. They want Tesla to take their market share and would love to write nice articles about them.

WookieMan says

I don't recall what you said you did, but if I bashed your company or product without having used it, you would take offense. This is undeniable. I'm not defending Musk, just the practice of humans trashing shit they've never used or experienced.

I've been bashing the company (you know, the title of this thread) and the snake oil salesman Musk, more than the car. I've only referenced certain points to push back against the Tesla fanboys here, who can't see reality because of their rose colored Tesla glasses. They're just as bad as the Apple fanboys..

For what it's worth, I worked for a start-up car company in the past (remember DeLorean), so I've seen these start-up quality issues before. With Tesla, it's way too early to see if these quality issues come back to bite them in the ass. My guess, the company won't be around to address them, and the Tesla fanboys will be left holding the bag.

MrMagic says

They're just as bad as the Apple fanboys.

Apple has solid products. This is undeniable. Call them fanboys or you can call them people that like good products.

MrMagic says

I've been bashing the company (you know, the title of this thread) and the snake oil salesman Musk, more than the car.

He's the CEO of a public company. WTF would you expect him to do? "Hey, you know what, 5 years down the road this might not work out." EVERY CEO is a snake oil salesman. Every single one. That's job number 1. There's not ONE company that has a 100% perfect and foolproof product. You have to sugarcoat the shit sometimes.

MrMagic says

For what it's worth, I worked for a start-up car company in the past (remember DeLorean), so I've seen these start-up quality issues before.

Yes, of course there will be startup quality issues. Somehow Ford is still around though. They started up and still make some pretty crappy cars 100 years later. We can't just slash and burn every new company that tries to build a car though. Especially one that will pave the future for others even if they don't stay around. EV's make a shitload more sense then gassers. Their time just hasn't come yet. Like I said, not a fan of Musk. His ego gets in his own way too much.

WookieMan says

Apple has solid products. This is undeniable.

Yep, that's why everyone needs to pay TWICE the amount for them so they can send email, watch cat video's and post on Patnet.

WookieMan says

Call them fanboys or you can call them people that like good products.

Or. call them fools for paying DOUBLE for the same product made by someone else to do the same thing...hmmm, like a Tesla...

WookieMan says

Yes, of course there will be startup quality issues

Yep, when less than 14% roll off the line with no quality issues (as reported), just a hickup... noting to see here... Please tell me where I can pay DOUBLE for one of these gems.

WookieMan says

EV's make a shitload more sense then gassers. Their time just hasn't come yet.

Hmmmm, then they DON'T make sense yet, NOW...

WookieMan says

Like I said, not a fan of Musk. His ego gets in his own way too much.

Look at that, we agree again... stop the clock....

MrMagic says

Yep, that's why everyone needs to pay TWICE the amount for them so they can send email, watch cat video's and post on Patnet.

Twice? That's a bit of a stretch. You do pay a premium for Apple products, sure, but not double. Galaxy S9 retails for like $700, iPhone X is $900-1000. And that's just in the handset space. For awhile the iMac 5k represented a BETTER value than any possible PC configuration, simply because it was impossible to get a standalone 5k monitor for less than like $1000.

Again, Apple's pricey. But on balance, not double.

Evan F. says

Twice? That's a bit of a stretch.

Nope, you're cherry picking, you need to look across the whole product line: phones, iPads, Laptops, iPods, and everything else Apple has made.


Evan F. says

But on balance, not double.

True, sometimes MORE than double.

WookieMan says

MrMagic says

WookieMan says

I have ZERO intention of buying one in the near future. I like my gassers.

Me too.

Look at that, we agree on something, you can now relax.

We agree on more than you think. Don't fool yourself.

And don't worry, I'm 1,000% relaxed. I don't recall what you said you did, but if I bashed your company or product without having used it, you would take offense. This is undeniable. I'm not defending Musk, just the practice of humans trashing shit they've never used or experienced. Don't believe everything you read. I'm sure GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, etc are all on board with Tesla doing well. They would NEVER try to trash the competition. They want Tesla to take their market share and would love to write nice articles about them.

It's not just the other car companies caught with their pants down that dislike Tesla. Big Oil hates Tesla even more. How would you feel if someone came along and completely destroyed your $trillions?
Elon Musk is a devil to oil companies, and a God to environmentalists.

Evan F. says

MrMagic says

Yep, that's why everyone needs to pay TWICE the amount for them so they can send email, watch cat video's and post on Patnet.

Twice? That's a bit of a stretch. You do pay a premium for Apple products, sure, but not double. Galaxy S9 retails for like $700, iPhone X is $900-1000. And that's just in the handset space. For awhile the iMac 5k represented a BETTER value than any possible PC configuration, simply because it was impossible to get a standalone 5k monitor for less than like $1000.

Again, Apple's pricey. But on balance, not double.

I would argue Apple works out cheaper even with a higher price tag, because they work better, last longer, look prettier, and upgrades are free.

Strategist says

I would argue Apple works out cheaper even with a higher price tag, because they work better, last longer, look prettier, and upgrades are free.

This. Lasts longer. And is better.

Your Best Buy basic PC/laptop will be LUCKY to last 2-3 years functioning at "new" level. I've got a 10 year old MacBook that I use for recording drums, which is one of the larger undertakings you can do on a basic laptop. Current configuration is 12 tracks simultaneously. Not a chance in hell a 10 year old PC/laptop could keep up with that. This isn't debatable unless you've got some ridiculous setup (PC) that's never been connected to the internet.

Bottom line, that MacBook 10 years ago was about $1,000. Put in some increased RAM to the tune of $150 about 5 years ago to knock it up to 16gb. Still works as well as the day I took it out of the box. You'd probably end up with 3 Windows laptops over this same period of time, probably costing more than $500 over the single MacBook.

I don't equate this to Tesla at this point though. It's too young. Apple on the other hand, has a proven track record of successful products that work. There's going to be a biggest/wealthiest company in the world. And some people will just never understand why they got there or despise the success for some reason. They'll just trash it having never used a single product. It's like saying sex isn't fun yet you're still a virgin.

Except, like my Macbook, after a few years Apple refuses to support it, there are no updates for critical programs.

Strategist says

I would argue Apple works out cheaper even with a higher price tag, because they work better, last longer, look prettier, and upgrades are free.

And much, MUCH higher resale on the secondary market. My MBP late 2013 could still fetch like $800. Any PC from 2013 would be a glorified doorstop in terms of resale.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Except, like my Macbook, after a few years Apple refuses to support it, there are no updates for critical programs.

My 10 year old MacBook just got locked out of OS updates. So you're right. But it still functions very well for what I need it to do though. Ain't no PC doing that. I can still run the entire Adobe Creative Suite on it, check email, browse the internet and other basic things. It mainly sits in my basement now for recording, but the thing was used for 6 years as a primary work machine (graphics, marketing, etc) and worked amazingly. And it still works like a champ simultaneously recording 12 drum tracks. That's no small feat on a 10 year old machine.

Prior to my Mac time, it was a PC tower or laptop every 3 years without a doubt. None of that shit would last 3 years and I still don't think it will. Wife's work laptop is already shit after 2-1/2 years.

If any of this quality logic held any water, all of my Audis and BMWs would be the most reliable and well engineered cars on the planet. They're just depreciation pits with over-engineered bullshit that aren't designed to be easily serviceable. Look at the used prices of $80k new BMWs/Audis in 2012 vs $80k new Tesla in 2012.

WookieMan says

My 10 year old MacBook just got locked out of OS updates. So you're right. But it still functions very well for what I need it to do though. Ain't no PC doing that. I can still run the entire Adobe Creative Suite on it, check email, browse the internet and other basic things. It mainly sits in my basement now for recording, but the thing was used for 6 years as a primary work machine (graphics, marketing, etc) and worked amazingly. And it still works like a champ simultaneously recording 12 drum tracks. That's no small feat on a 10 year old machine.

Prior to my Mac time, it was a PC tower or laptop every 3 years without a doubt. None of that shit would last 3 years and I still don't think it will. Wife's work laptop is already shit after 2-1/2 years.

At my graduate school lab, we have a PC that is running Windows 3.1. We have a photodiode detector attached to it. We also have a battery backup power supply attached to it. The computer has been on continuously since 1996 and survived multiple hurricanes in which the power went out. Last time I looked at it (5 years ago), it had a cantilever of dust coming out of the fan. I don't even want to know how much dust is inside the thing. But nevertheless, it has not failed yet.

My old lenovo book still operates just fine and it's been 9 years. That being said, my wife's new lenovo is absolutely awful and is the third one we've purchased after several returns. All have been completely useless and not functioned. My surface is about to go into it's 4th year and has never given me an issue. At some point, the battery is going to go though.

theoakman says

My old lenovo book still operates just fine and it's been 9 years. That being said, my wife's new lenovo is absolutely awful and is the third one we've purchased after several returns. All have been completely useless and not functioned. My surface is about to go into it's 4th year and has never given me an issue. At some point, the battery is going to go though.

I hear you. Don't mean to sound like I'm bashing PC's (Windows). Never have had good luck myself. The reality is, most computer fuck ups are user related. There are plenty of idiots that can fuck up any computer they get (not saying your wife is the culprit FYI).

I just find that your above average technology person (we're not talking IT bros or whatever) have better luck with Macs, from my observation. I'm a decade deep plus in Mac/Apple, but maybe things have changed on the Microsoft side of the world. I'm open to hearing the good, bad and ugly of any product, assuming it's been used by the person giving the opinion. I'm living flawlessly in my Mac world though. And I'm not just email and internet either like most Americans. I actually do productive shit with my computers. So I need them to work.

The funniest stuff is what Azealia Banks says about Musk, she was at his house recently for a "lost weekend" or something.

WookieMan says

Bottom line, that MacBook 10 years ago was about $1,000. Put in some increased RAM to the tune of $150 about 5 years ago to knock it up to 16gb. Still works as well as the day I took it out of the box. You'd probably end up with 3 Windows laptops over this same period of time, probably costing more than $500 over the single MacBook.

Evan F. says

And much, MUCH higher resale on the secondary market. My MBP late 2013 could still fetch like $800. Any PC from 2013 would be a glorified doorstop in terms of resale.

Wow. Thanks for the info guys. I got my MacBook Pro on Jan 2, 2014. I just checked the RAM, and it's only 4Gigs. It works like it always has, and I thought I would only get 5 years out of it. My previous rotten PC's have never lasted more than 2 years.
Bottom line: Quality may have a higher sticker price, but it's a lot cheaper in the long run.

WookieMan says

I just find that your above average technology person (we're not talking IT bros or whatever) have better luck with Macs, from my observation. I'm a decade deep plus in Mac/Apple, but maybe things have changed on the Microsoft side of the world. I'm open to hearing the good, bad and ugly of any product, assuming it's been used by the person giving the opinion. I'm living flawlessly in my Mac world though. And I'm not just email and internet either like most Americans. I actually do productive shit with my computers. So I need them to work.

Just make sure all your important data is backed up. I heard all Hard Drives eventually fail.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Except, like my Macbook, after a few years Apple refuses to support it, there are no updates for critical programs.

All companies eventually drop support on their products. That's when you really need a new computer.

Strategist says

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Except, like my Macbook, after a few years Apple refuses to support it, there are no updates for critical programs.

All companies eventually drop support on their products. That's when you really need a new computer.

or switch to linux.

bob2356 says

or switch to linux.

Do you really need linux today? Might work if you have the right skills, but for most people, just get a Mac. It won't be long before you can just tell Siri to "solve the fucking problem, and don't bother me"
Personal Assistants that can instantly get you any data is the future.....Hey Siri, can you find the receipt for the $5.00 pens I purchased 3 years ago, and send it to the fucking IRS.

I’ve switched to Mac after windows decided to get all mighty and take away my start button.

I think entire America tried to downgrade back to windows 7 cursing Microsoft.

@MrBark and @Evan F.,

You guys are being trolled.

@Strategist,

I'm surprised you're still waiting for your Model 3 reservation. Is it because you only want to buy the basic $35k model? I'm the owner of a Model S and used my account to order two Tesla Model 3 for my wife's siblings. Here are the cars line up in the recent visit to my in-law parents. They're amazing cars. Once you've owned and driven one, you don't want to go back and drive a gas car. My biz partner owns a Model X, also a white car. The instant torque is addictive. Everyone is loving their Tesla. Now my wife wants one where I already bought her a new MDX last year. I told her to give me another year. Sigh.....

Too much white bro, colored cars matter.

CBOEtrader says

Too much white bro, colored cars matter.

Exactly..

You would think that guy was some sort of a fanboy or something... Can you say "cult"?

E-man says

I'm surprised you're still waiting for your Model 3 reservation. Is it because you only want to buy the basic $35k model?

Yes, I don't want to go above $40K. The Model S is unaffordable to me. If the Model 3 was not so economical, I would not have considered buying it.



E-man says

I'm the owner of a Model S and used my account to order two Tesla Model 3 for my wife's siblings. Here are the cars line up in the recent visit to my in-law parents. They're amazing cars. Once you've owned and driven one, you don't want to go back and drive a gas car. My biz partner owns a Model X, also a white car. The instant torque is addictive. Everyone is loving their Tesla. Now my wife wants one where I already bought her a new MDX last year. I told her to give me another year. Sigh.....

The electric cars sure are addictive. Once you go electric, you never go back.
We got back from Yellowstone last week where we rented a mini van from Salt Lake City. We spent $200+ on gas. It felt like a total rip off even though gas was so cheap compared to California.
While on the subject, I would like to take the opportunity to apologize to Yellowstone and Mother Nature for polluting the air. I'm sorry.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

or switch to linux.

Do you really need linux today? Might work if you have the right skills, but for most people, just get a Mac. It won't be long before you can just tell Siri to "solve the fucking problem, and don't bother me"
Personal Assistants that can instantly get you any data is the future.....Hey Siri, can you find the receipt for the $5.00 pens I purchased 3 years ago, and send it to the fucking IRS.

Yes. Linux and a barebones combustion engine with as little electronic gimmicks as possible. Seat warmers for the missus may be and that's it.

Strategist says

Do you really need linux today?

I've used Ubuntu to run home media server, backup drive, and bittorrent service for a number of years. Plan to add an email server, but that project will take some time. I've extended the life of a shitty Dell I bought about 4 years back by running a stripped down Linux version, I think XLE.

Linux is for people who like doing things for themselves, and getting the most out of their hardware.

MrMagic says

For what it's worth, I worked for a start-up car company in the past (remember DeLorean), so I've seen these start-up quality issues before.

Either way, Elon "We're building cars in a giant tent" Musk will most definitely be a Case Study at Harvard Business School some time in the future. But for some perspective, Musk has already accomplished much more than DeLorean, whose DeLorean Motor Co. built only 9,080 cars before collapsing. That's about as many as Tesla sold monthly last year.

EBGuy says

Musk has already accomplished much more than DeLorean, whose DeLorean Motor Co. built only 9,080 cars before collapsing. That's about as many as Tesla sold monthly last year.

It was quality issues that cause DeLorean to collapse..... Musk is working on the piece too, just give him a little bit more time..... Tick Tock.

Strategist says

All companies eventually drop support on their products. That's when you really need a new computer.

I should say, my employer's MacBook. I would never buy a Crapple voluntarily.

I run Linux Mint on my main desktop. Unfortunately I still need a Win/Mac machine to run the shit I use on a daily basis.

But every year more and more shit is put online, until eventually I won't need to run any work apps on the machine directly.

What kind of warranty does Tesla offer? Usual 60k 5 years?